No they won't, they'll look back at silly home points dropped to West Ham, Fulham and Aston Villa. That city game won't be where any Arsenal fan will consider the league was lost. For how amazing they were for a few years, not even Liverpool have won at Etihad against Pep in the league, but people expect Arteta to rock up and do it. People need to be honest and say they wanted Arsenal to receive another drubbing instead of this nonsense about not going there to win.
Arsenal 2023/24 - Born to be runner up
- Thread starter horsechoker
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I suspect a loooot of people are still very confused as to how Arteta has turned it around that has resulted in a lot of delusional takes both this and last season as well.
Turns out he's actually one of the best managers in the world, and the general consensus is often bullshit in football? People just looked at one-off results and league finishes with awful squads and drew the wrong conclusion.
Even if Arsenal don't win it this season (I don't think it's over yet, at all), their squad is very young, they have a great manager, they have Edu, and the owners also seem to have finally adopted a smarter way of running the club, plus they're able to financially compete.
I agree with the poster that said Arsenal have replaced Liverpool as City's main challengers. That has been the case since the start of last season. Liverpool were always the third best team in the country this season. If Pep leaves City at the end of next season as I suspect, Arsenal will be in prime position to win a few league titles in the next couple of seasons. As things stand, they're the best-situated club to take over from City when they lose Pep, but I'm optimistic that we will be up there as well by the time it happens, whether that's in 12 months or longer. Ineos can do a lot for the club in that time.
Turns out he's actually one of the best managers in the world, and the general consensus is often bullshit in football? People just looked at one-off results and league finishes with awful squads and drew the wrong conclusion.
Even if Arsenal don't win it this season (I don't think it's over yet, at all), their squad is very young, they have a great manager, they have Edu, and the owners also seem to have finally adopted a smarter way of running the club, plus they're able to financially compete.
I agree with the poster that said Arsenal have replaced Liverpool as City's main challengers. That has been the case since the start of last season. Liverpool were always the third best team in the country this season. If Pep leaves City at the end of next season as I suspect, Arsenal will be in prime position to win a few league titles in the next couple of seasons. As things stand, they're the best-situated club to take over from City when they lose Pep, but I'm optimistic that we will be up there as well by the time it happens, whether that's in 12 months or longer. Ineos can do a lot for the club in that time.
Any of the home games for me, as I don't like dropping points at home. Fulham, Spurs, West Ham, Villa... take your pick....
Everyone who doesn't win a thing has bottled it. Its Caf law.
Just last night I bottled the national lottery.
Just last night I bottled the national lottery.
As long as 115 charges goes unpunished it will be next to impossible to actually win the league for anyone doing it fairly.
Arsenal have been immense this season
Honestly, it's 1 of the main phrases I don't like, because this banter Internet age football fan feels the need to throw it around every time a team doesn't win, and it's not even a trophy now, even if a team loses a game it's been bottled.
More bottling happening weekly than a 70's Glasgow taxi rank.
If Arsenal win their last 6 games of the season and still don't win the league - they haven't bottled it - they just were unlucky that City matched their results.
Even if you include the Villa-defeat - they have been sensational in 2024 and won like 13 out of 15 league games. However if City lose a game (which they wont) and Arsenal drop points against us or Everton in one of the last 2 games - then they will bottle it
Even if you include the Villa-defeat - they have been sensational in 2024 and won like 13 out of 15 league games. However if City lose a game (which they wont) and Arsenal drop points against us or Everton in one of the last 2 games - then they will bottle it
And still had better chances than them. They had 2 shots on target across 2 games. It's call tactics. On another day one of those chances are put away and we win. Had Trossard cleared it to Martinelli at the end it was a goal.
The irony
Didn't they sit in for a draw against city or am I misremembering?
If Arsenal win their remaining two games, they will end on 89 points and will have lost one league game in 2024 to a pretty good Villa side. Meanwhile they will have beaten Liverpool and Spurs and gotten a draw away to City.
Last year they bottled it, but this year they haven’t yet. They still might if they fail to beat us.
Last year they bottled it, but this year they haven’t yet. They still might if they fail to beat us.
Heh, why is there this popular imagination that if we'd simply attacked, we'd have won. How about we attack and we lose 4-1 like last season and the title's already done? We'll never know but in football it is generally seen as prudent not to be completely gung-ho in the most difficult games of the season. Trust me - I've lived through enough 2-8s and 0-6s to be able to appreciate a 0-0.
Your problem in those games is that you weren't good enough, not that you attacked. Liverpool have been going toe to toe with City for years now and they have got good results. What you did at City showed that you still don't consider yourselves good enough which is fair, Arteta knows the level of his team better than all of us. I was just surprised because I really rate this Arsenal side.
Criticising Arsenal for taking 4 points from City this season is a weird take.
Once again, their record since christmas is absolutely fantastic, and on a points per game form of a 100 point season, They have bottled absolutely nothing and are as fine an example as you will get that no matter how well you are run, no matter how patient you are with a manager, no matter how well you invest- you can not compete with a state-backed financially cheating machine who had a 100m pound signing, a world cup winner, and about 4 50m+ signings sitting on their bench at the weekend.
Winning the league is all about endurance, fatigue and coping with it. Nobody can match city and the league is a shambles for it.
Once again, their record since christmas is absolutely fantastic, and on a points per game form of a 100 point season, They have bottled absolutely nothing and are as fine an example as you will get that no matter how well you are run, no matter how patient you are with a manager, no matter how well you invest- you can not compete with a state-backed financially cheating machine who had a 100m pound signing, a world cup winner, and about 4 50m+ signings sitting on their bench at the weekend.
Winning the league is all about endurance, fatigue and coping with it. Nobody can match city and the league is a shambles for it.
They've got good results? So a draw is a good result then...because they havent won against a Pep team in the league at The Etihad under Klopp?
Nobody is going that.
Their record is still better than yours. If two teams get a draw, there is still a psychology involved in how you get that draw. When you go to City and get a draw the way relegation candidate would, you are admitting inferiority which can reflect on the players in other games. I don't even think Arteta meant to play like that, City forced you to sit back, it's not like any manager would think it's a smart idea to play the majority of the game right in front of my GK, unless they feel it's their only chance because they have bad players which Arsenal don't.
Was this intentional sarcasm by you?
Anyway, I was watching MoTD last night and Gary O'Neil was whinging about the pen after getting thumped 5-1. Like come on.
Over the course of a season decisions generally average out, and I just find Arteta's whinge the most amusing because the argument was put forth like they were "protecting the integrity of the game". But they've had a fair few fortunate decisions their way since and there's not a peep.
I'd have more respect for the likes of Forest, Arteta etc if they just came out and said they selfishly want all decisions in this favour instead of hiding behind some idiotic virtue signalling for the good of the game.
I just fundamentally disagree. That’s results based analysis, rather than assessing the achievements of the individual players and teams. We’ve somehow improved from last season, cemented ourselves as one of the best teams in the world and put us in an amazing position to win the league. If City end the season with more points than us and win the league, that’s disappointing but not a failure.
Don't get me wrong, if you guys end up winning the league then he'll be vindicated obviously. But I seem to remember you guys were completely dominated at the etihad, and that you sat back like a Luton or Sheffield happy with the draw and hoping to nick one. 28% possession, 200 passes to city's 700+, it didn't feel like you were equals, if you know what I mean. You said you had the better chances but I genuinely dont remember, I just rmemeber they had their backup keeper but you never tested him at all.
Just to be clear, I dont think this was the game that lost the title, if you dont win it. But this was a rather memorable moment because for me, it showed the gulf in mentality and that plucky underdog status you guys still like to wear around.
Arteta has proved himself to be a top top manager. Coming second last year, understanding that they were so close, spending big on Rice and then putting in a title challenge again is very impressive. But...
whaaat?!
Generally agree with this. But at the same time, I don't think it showed a gulf in mentality. There's no shame in playing for away draws against title rivals and beating them at home. That was Mourinho's entire MO at Chelsea.
I maybe agree with you if you were talking about this game in isolation, but your talking about this game where Arsenal had already beaten City in the Community Shield on penalties, and then beaten them in the home game.
In fact, Arsenal by far have the best of games against 'the big 6', being unbeaten and taking 4 points in the games vs City, Liverpool, Spurs and Chelsea with the game against Utd at Old Trafford next.
I didn't really see any different to how Arsenal played at the Etihad to how Real Madrid played at the Etihad. It was almost as 1 sided. The difference was Arsenal was better than Madrid defensively and restricted their chances better, but Madrid had the likes of Vincius and Rodrigo who carried a little bit more of a threat on the break.
Careful with those unproven allegations, the honest & good guy City fan will tell you that you're deluded and having a meltdown.
I agree, hence my surprise that they couldn't play City more like equals. I really thought they needed to send a message to City to rattle them. The way the game played out just had the air of a team that sees itself as not good enough to be arrogant and go at them. Liverpool ran City the closest in the past 5 years and the one constant whenever they played them is they approached it like equals. I guess my point is that I felt Arsenal missed a great chance to get a psychological boost out of going to the Etihad and either winning or drawing by making City feel like they got away with one. Instead they just told City they were afraid of them and will look to win this league because City dropped their level and not because Arsenal are now better.
True but again, even Ancelotti admitted Real did not plan to play like that, they were made to. That was not a tactical masterclass by any stretch. But more importantly, that was a knockout game and one can sneak through against a superior opponent in that format. In a league campaign however, there are different dynamics and I don't think many would argue that Real Madrid could dream of winning a league title against this City side.
wouldnt be the first time. City fans started creeping around this forum once the oil money was flowing and acted aghast at the very idea that their rise was suspect. Here we are a decade later with 115 charges still out standing, a complete media blackout on the biggest story in football, and I have no doubt- a behind the scenes hand washing of the whole thing.Careful with those unproven allegations, the honest & good guy City fan will tell you that you're deluded and having a meltdown.
I think you’re massively over indexing on the psychological element.
With our goal difference, our draw away to Pep’s City (a decent result at the best of times seeing as Klopp has never achieved anything more) kept it in our hands. Had we put away our chances against Villa, City’s “psychological boost” would be utterly irrelevant.
City finish strongly every single year. Even if we’d beaten them at the Etihad (which we trying to do, btw - we just failed, which is a fairly common occurrence) they still would have won the vast majority of their games in the run-in. Because they are one of, if not the, best team in the world.
The game against City has somehow taken on mythic status. It was an away draw against a title rival, it’s really not that deep.
If we do not go for a forward, we should maybe try to lure Olise over. He would provide fantastic cover I think for both Odegaard and Saka.
I’d love Olise.
Eze is the one but he might not want to be on the bench. Olise is too lightweight and injury prone. Waste of 60M.
It's become so overused now it's kinda funny. You could possibly argue they bottled it last year because of the big lead they had but even then they still had to play City twice. This year though noone has bottled it.
Eze would be good too. A bit older..Both have been a bit injury prone but since it would be for a squad position...it would probably work. 60 mil is a lot, maybe 50 mil might work? This is the kind of transfer you need though. You need quality coming off the bench.
I think rival fans would rather see we naively attacked City like we usually do and get easily picked off. Like last season at the Emirates, when City only had 36% of the ball but brushed us aside 3-1. Didn't hear anyone say City felt inferior and decided to surrender the ball.
Or all the trashings we used to get from Mourinho's Chelsea when they would have all their players behind the ball deep in their half, only coming out on fast counter attacks. Can't remember anyone saying they felt inferior to us. In fact everyone used to laugh at us for being so naive.
Even the great Ferguson would set up fairly defensive against us and kill us on the counter, time after time. We finally reverse the tables and start to pick up points at Anfield, Etihad etc, we are being accused of feeling inferior. Guess we should go back to 'dominating' games and keep getting smashed in the big games, at least that way we will have shown we aren't feeling inferior to anyone.
It‘s terrible to see what City has done to the league. Instead of seeing teams like Arsenal, Liverpool and even United (after all, you managed a second place finish) win the league and put their communities into a frenzy, City will win and no one will care. A few people will go out to celebrate in the most shallow of ways and that’s it. The whole competition has been rendered meaningless.
Could you, please?
Tbh we should. We shouldn't be so selfish and focus too much on just getting the points but making everyone else happy too
I, for one, am ashamed. We’ve lost sight of our priorities as a club.Tbh we should. We shouldn't be so selfish and focus too much on just getting the points but making everyone else happy too
Arsenal's setup at the Etihad was perfect. They played a better game than Real did weeks later. If they were a bit more clinical they could have walked away with a victory, but they played the percentages right.
There are other games to give them flack in, but that's not the one. And they've had a near-flawless record in the league after Christmas.
There are other games to give them flack in, but that's not the one. And they've had a near-flawless record in the league after Christmas.
Hoping Arsenal can follow Leverkusen's footsteps and rejuvenate the league and put communities in frenzies.
Real played the perfect game considering their personnel - they are much more lethal offensively than Arsenal can currently dream to be. Arsenal's gameplan wasn't inherently flawed, but it lacked ambition in a way that will probably prove costly. It was also a good time to actually have a go at City. But anyway.
Most Real fans will tell you their intent was not to be subdued offensively and reduced to parking the bus (bar that goal). They got a better result, only because it went to penalties, but over 120 minutes it was 1-1. If City had went through on penalties this wouldn't be a conversation.
City were more limited offensively against Arsenal than they were against Real, and it was because Arsenal were better defensively than Real were. But Arsenal being more ambitious could have opened them up in a way City could have taken advantage (and we have an example of this at the Emirates last season).