Arsenal 2023/24 - Have bottled the Champions League and are Bottling the League

[Lincm]

They have had a very easy start to the season and not looked convincing.

It's not a crazy idea that they might struggle Vs stronger teams.

heard this for all of 2022/2023. And while Arsenal didn't ultimately win, they were still good for the second place having played the same fixtures across the season as everyone else.


But back to this season,

Home Nott Forest - easy
Away to CP - who do well against other big 6 players and is known to be a tough place to go to
Home to Fulham - People tend to underestimate Fulham who aren't bottom feeders anymore, MS has done well to get them performing.
Home to Utd - I'd better not say anything here
Away to Everton - where Arsenal has not won for several years now.

but yes, let's continue with the narrative of an easy start.
i concede the team hasn't looked convincing though, if we use their game play from last year as a bench mark. That said, they have demonstrated some solid team work even at this early stage. (eg: defending with their lives despite being a man down)
if anything, they are demonstrating memories from yesterday of all the control in the world, with not much end product. at least, they've grinded out some results.

 

[Garnacho's Shoelaces]

heard this for all of 2022/2023. And while Arsenal didn't ultimately win, they were still good for the second place having played the same fixtures across the season as everyone else.


But back to this season

Arsenal's priority should be on successive CL qualification after being out of the competition for the majority of the past decade.

Title challenge is beyond the current group and manager. Your 'Leicester' season of yesteryear is no guarantee of challenging this year.

 

[Dumbstar]

Arsenal are showing comfortable top 4 form at the moment. They're on par in the alternative league table so far too.

But as someone mentioned elsewhere, only Arsenal and City had 12 points at this stage last season. Relatively low competition for places throughout it. It will be a different set of pressures this season (including first XI team selection in CL games too).

 

[erikcred]

Mind boggling revisionism.

Eh? You finished second, with a large gap to third. That makes it comfortably second?

If you're offended that we think you were obviously second best to City, remember that the two times you finished second, the title was never in your hands from Feb/Mar onwards. City were comfortably in control of both title races.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Not sure if it would be safe for this knob-end to return to Goodison next season.

It's almost like AFTV seeks out the biggest prats in London for their channel.

It's just arsenal fans mate.

 

[Nish115]

Did you even look at the numbers you have linked?

Yes..?

We are 2nd on xP and xGA. Did you look at them?

 

[Mogget]

I agree. I think what's most impressive about this performance (not just the result) was that our midfield was Rice, Odegaard and Vieira vs Onana, Decoure and Gueye. On paper that looks lightweight and I thought we'd miss Partey. But perhaps for the first time since Partey arrived, our midfield didn't massively drop off in his absence. Rice so far has settled in better and quicker than I thought he would.

I was worried about this signing but I like what I've seen of him so far.

I don't really think it's a surprise we've looked disjointed so far, we're playing with almost a new midfield so it's obviously going to take some time. Anyway, last season showed us that you don't get anything for looking amazing and blowing teams away in August/September so I'm not too worried.

 

[sglowrider]

It's just arsenal fans mate.

One of my best buds is a gooner. Born in Islington and yet he is as normal a fan as you get. No bravado. Calm even during the worst Wenger years or the early Arteta years.

 

[WeePat]

In terms of results id agree, in terms of dominating performances I'm not sure I would. I feel we dominated nearly all our games bar Utd. You would expect us to dominate Fulham and Forest at home of course, but we went to Palace and Everton now and completely dominated nearly the full game (up until the sending off at Palace of course).

I think that's quite pleasing for me. We might not be quite clicking up front yet, but I'm sure when Jesus gets back starting that will come. Beat Spurs at home next week and we are a point better off than after the first 6 games last season. Unfortunately given City's ominous early form I feel we are fighting for 2nd again.

If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be pleased too. You're putting points on the board every week without really being in top form yet.

I've watched every Arsenal match so far though. I thought you played well enough to deserve the win in most games but not quite convincing enough to say you were dominant in them. That's all I was saying. Almost every week I've felt your game could have very easily ended in a draw and it would have been a fair result.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

A bit worried for this season. Seem to be getting nagging injuries already. Timber out, Partey out for a while, Jesus not back yet, now Martinelli gets pulled. That combined with Havertz not settling yet and the coming CL games instead of EL has me less confident. It's good to get the points but getting some flashbacks of some injury laden seasons of the past.

 

[Mogget]

A bit worried for this season. Seem to be getting nagging injuries already. Timber out, Partey out for a while, Jesus not back yet, now Martinelli gets pulled. That combined with Havertz not settling yet and the coming CL games instead of EL has me less confident. It's good to get the points but getting some flashbacks of some injury laden seasons of the past.

I think is going to be a problem for all teams this season, not just Arsenal. The amount of football they've been playing recently isn't sustainable

 

[SilentWitness]

If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be pleased too. You're putting points on the board every week without really being in top form yet.

I've watched every Arsenal match so far though. I thought you played well enough to deserve the win in most games but not quite convincing enough to say you were dominant in them. That's all I was saying. Almost every week I've felt your game could have very easily ended in a draw and it would have been a fair result.

I agree, especially when it comes to the game yesterday. Our tactic wasn't to have possession and be on the ball, our tactic was to soak up pressure and limit good chances for Arsenal which we did fairly well but ultimately failed because of a top class finish.

On the very few occasions we did take it to Arsenal, they were susceptible. Another ref might have given Doucoure a penalty, Danjuma/Gueye made silly decisions to shoot when a pass was on for a player in open space in the box and DCL at the end should have tried to shoot instead of passing. They'll have to be much better going forward because it looks similar to last season for me where they are winning but it will catch up with them at some point.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I think is going to be a problem for all teams this season, not just Arsenal. The amount of football they've been playing recently isn't sustainable

Yeah, it favors City and their crazy squad depth for sure. Really bummed on Timber, was looking forward to seeing him fit in.

 

[WeePat]

I agree, especially when it comes to the game yesterday. Our tactic wasn't to have possession and be on the ball, our tactic was to soak up pressure and limit good chances for Arsenal which we did fairly well but ultimately failed because of a top class finish.

On the very few occasions we did take it to Arsenal, they were susceptible. Another ref might have given Doucoure a penalty, Danjuma/Gueye made silly decisions to shoot when a pass was on for a player in open space in the box and DCL at the end should have tried to shoot instead of passing. They'll have to be much better going forward because it looks similar to last season for me where they are winning but it will catch up with them at some point.

Yeah, Everton played pretty well in first and middle third, which is probably what Dyche wanted you to do. I thought you looked pretty comfortable for most of the game. As I was saying in the Poch thread, Arsenal yesterday probably played a bit worse than our performance vs Bournemouth but you just know if a half chance falls to one of their forwards, there's a good chance they'll take it, whereas if you lot played us yesterday, the very same performance could have easily earned you a 0-0 or a 1-0 win.

Arsenal will get better, so their fans should be pleased. It is the sign of a champion, as that one Arsenal fan said, to win tough games when you're not in top form.

 

[Dumbstar]

Yeah, it favors City and their crazy squad depth for sure. Really bummed on Timber, was looking forward to seeing him fit in.

And it favours Liverpool who effectively have one game a week all season. Like Arsenal did last season.

 

[GoonerGirly]

I was worried about this signing but I like what I've seen of him so far.

I don't really think it's a surprise we've looked disjointed so far, we're playing with almost a new midfield so it's obviously going to take some time. Anyway, last season showed us that you don't get anything for looking amazing and blowing teams away in August/September so I'm not too worried.

Rice has been excellent so far. He's been better than I thought with his passing and even progressing the ball. I thought he'd slow our play down somewhat but that hasn't happened at all. For the first time in a long time, I don't feel nervous that Partey is out.

I'm not worried either, I feel Arteta has learned from last season and is wanting to do/try different things. In this game in particular, I think we controlled the game quite well and didn't make silly errors or give Everton a sniff. We seemed pretty mature and comfortable, even if it wasn't spectacular and maybe a bit boring.

 

[Mogget]

Rice has been excellent so far. He's been better than I thought with his passing and even progressing the ball. I thought he'd slow our play down somewhat but that hasn't happened at all. For the first time in a long time, I don't feel nervous that Partey is out.

I'm not worried either, I feel Arteta has learned from last season and is wanting to do/try different things. In this game in particular, I think we controlled the game quite well and didn't make silly errors or give Everton a sniff. We seemed pretty mature and comfortable, even if it wasn't spectacular and maybe a bit boring.

Yeah his interceptions are great too, he wins balls I wouldn't expect him to.

Feels like we're moving towards a City style of play where the game is a bit boring but we have lots of control over it. Definitely not a bad thing after how emotional the team played in some games last season

 

[Donaldo]

Rice looks like the standout player for us so far. Adds a level of quality I'm a little surprised by as well.

 

[Redstain]

Arsenal do look more ordinary compared to last season. I had them winning the league last year on the basis of the level of performances the team amassed. They were for the majority the best performing team in the league. It wasn't City's brilliance that dethroned them but rather a lack of focus / composure to see the campaign out. They haven't started this season with that same level of cohesion and intensity, but maybe the manager is trying different ideas to give them a different alternative when the going get's tough. I think City will win it and Arsenal potentially 3rd place from this point forward. Reckon Liverpool will get 2nd as they also have a history of crashing domestic cups for league success I can see them disregarding the Europa for the same purposes. City, Liverpool, Arsenal 4th ? 5th ? 6th - 8th United.

 

[Cascarino]

Eh? You finished second, with a large gap to third. That makes it comfortably second?

If you're offended that we think you were obviously second best to City, remember that the two times you finished second, the title was never in your hands from Feb/Mar onwards. City were comfortably in control of both title races.

They got second with 97 points, then champions with 99, bit of a dud season but got top 4, then second with 92 points. Both times they came second it was by a single point, and the European cup on top of course. I've defended Arteta and Arsenal a lot on this board (because the takes on them were usually bad), but they haven't replicated the kinds of seasons that Liverpool achieved.

 

[Donaldo]

They got second with 97 points, then champions with 99, bit of a dud season but got top 4, then second with 92 points. Both times they came second it was by a single point, and the European cup on top of course. I've defended Arteta and Arsenal a lot on this board (because the takes on them were usually bad), but they haven't replicated the kinds of seasons that Liverpool achieved.

And I doubt we will. We're not at that level of a team yet. It might be in a season, but it isn't right now.

 

[Powderfinger]

I think we're better than last year if you look a bit below the surface.

Last year we had a great first half run that involved coming out with our hair on fire every match, playing the same first XI nearly every match through the World Cup, and really just playing the same football that few sides were quite ready for. It was a huge leap forward for the club and very impressive but also not sustainable in all sorts of ways.

Arteta is trying to make us into a more mature side, one that can rotate players in and out while keeping up performance levels, one that can pose different kinds of tactical problems and find different kinds of tactical solutions, and one that can control the tempo of matches (especially away) and then raise or lower that tempo depending on the scoreline and the game conditions. Those are the kinds of things you need to do to make the side durable for the long run.

I think people tend to overrate the notion of a top side being one that just comes out and blitzes the opposition, going 2-0 or 3-0 up in the first half and then coasting every match. Those matches are obviously great. But its very hard to do without being a side that also sometimes goes down 2-0 or 2-1 in the first half. City and Liverpool in their pomp have shown that the most dominant football really involves just giving the opponent nothing in the opening half as a first principle. If you happen to score a goal or two in the first half then fantastic. But 0-0 is not a bad halftime scoreline if you are squeezing the life out of your opponent, playing almost entirely in their half, and you are capable of just raising the tempo notch by notch in the second half until you get the opening. That's what Pep has perfected and what Arsenal are trying to figure out.

We're not good enough yet to overtake City unless they have a big injury crisis or some other implosion. But that's not a reasonable standard to measure progress, as if anything less is a disappointment. Very very few sides in PL history would beat this version of City to the title or even run them close.

 

[Lincm]

A bit worried for this season. Seem to be getting nagging injuries already. Timber out, Partey out for a while, Jesus not back yet, now Martinelli gets pulled. That combined with Havertz not settling yet and the coming CL games instead of EL has me less confident. It's good to get the points but getting some flashbacks of some injury laden seasons of the past.

except the bench options are much more decent compared to previous seasons.
in the past, we'd be sweating buckets if first teamers were out. and the drop off in quality was night and day between the second stringers.

 

[Changeisgood]

except the bench options are much more decent compared to previous seasons.
in the past, we'd be sweating buckets if first teamers were out. and the drop off in quality was night and day between the second stringers.

Yes, our depth is considerably better, although some of it is unavailable right now. Trossard stepped in, and he would start on most teams in my opinion. Even Vieira has improved and we still have not seen much of Nelson and ESR. I was really concerned we had a lack of options for Xhaka and Odegaard but there are now at least some guys ready to step in.

I feel Timber is the big miss here. He was looking like such a quality player in this short time...bit still of a downer.

Don't think Nelli should be out for too long, ut I could be wrong

 

[SilentWitness]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Celebrating a player giving a ball away, holding onto the opponent before winning it back and then misplacing a pass.

 

[GoonerBear]

If I was an Arsenal fan I'd be pleased too. You're putting points on the board every week without really being in top form yet.

I've watched every Arsenal match so far though. I thought you played well enough to deserve the win in most games but not quite convincing enough to say you were dominant in them. That's all I was saying. Almost every week I've felt your game could have very easily ended in a draw and it would have been a fair result.

What we've managed to do well in our 2 away games is take a stranglehold of the ball, controlling the midfield, winning the ball back quick, and pinning teams back in, limiting the home team to very few chances. What we've not managed to do is convert that possession into lots of clear cut chances yet.

I don't really understand the slight contrast to our home form, where we seem to be more sloppy, less concentrated, giving away chances and conceding some poor goals. This isn't anything new, and affected us a good few times last season, the games against Brighton, Bournemouth and Southampton spring to mind.

We had 14 clean sheets last season with 10 of them away from home. Already we have 2 clean sheets, both away from home and conceded in each of our 3 home games this season. That's poor and needs to improve.

 

[Cascarino]

And I doubt we will. We're not at that level of a team yet. It might be in a season, but it isn't right now.

The age profile of your side is a massive plus, it’s easy to forget how young the likes of Martinelli and Saka are. Seems like a good squaddie but think you could do with Jesus starting once he’s properly fit.

What’s going on with your keeper situation? Is Raya going to be starting from now on or is Ramsdale gonna be back for a europe and spurs?

 

[Tyrion]

Mind boggling revisionism.

You beat them once, were right behind them twice but you were also a mile behind them in the other seasons. City consistently beat Liverpool but people acted like it was an equal rivalry because City were so boring.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

That guy is mental. He's like DT but with the mind of a grandfather instead of a child.

 

[CannonBalls]

They got second with 97 points, then champions with 99, bit of a dud season but got top 4, then second with 92 points. Both times they came second it was by a single point, and the European cup on top of course. I've defended Arteta and Arsenal a lot on this board (because the takes on them were usually bad), but they haven't replicated the kinds of seasons that Liverpool achieved.

I don't get this comparison. We are not remotely close to that. We were on the same level for 70% of the season last year that too just focusing on league. Getting one 90+ league finish should be a prerequisite to compare against that Liverpool and to me they were more entertaining to watch then City.

 

[Scroto Baggins]

They have had a very easy start to the season and not looked convincing.

It's not a crazy idea that they might struggle Vs stronger teams.

No one has looked convincing, except the freak that is City. Liverpool not great, Chelsea and United have been absolute rubbish, Spurs will be Spursy at some point and lose at home to Luton or something; Newcastle will struggle once the games start coming thick and fast. Brighton and Hammers have been ok I guess but at or around the same level as Arsenal.

The only 'stronger' team at the moment is City, and everyone in the league will struggle to get a win against them.

 

[Changeisgood]

No one has looked convincing, except the freak that is City. Liverpool not great, Chelsea and United have been absolute rubbish, Spurs will be Spursy at some point and lose at home to Luton or something; Newcastle will struggle once the games start coming thick and fast. Brighton and Hammers have been ok I guess but at or around the same level as Arsenal.

The only 'stronger' team at the moment is City, and everyone in the league will struggle to get a win against them.

Unfortunately that is the sad state of the PL. We are all spending tons just to play for second. Pool are not the finished article indeed either. There are some deficiencies there although they will likely challenge for second.

 

[Donaldo]

The age profile of your side is a massive plus, it’s easy to forget how young the likes of Martinelli and Saka are. Seems like a good squaddie but think you could do with Jesus starting once he’s properly fit.

What’s going on with your keeper situation? Is Raya going to be starting from now on or is Ramsdale gonna be back for a europe and spurs?

I think he definitely feels Raya has an edge on Ramsdale in terms of technical ability with his feet and dominance in the box, among other things. Whether this is a tactical change for specific opposition or something more long term remains to be seen. I think the overall goal is to have high passing and ball retention quality across the pitch (Timber's injury has dented that a bit - Zinny's got a few lapses in him).

 

[awop]

Seems the Everton game wasn't a freebie and Raya starts our CL campaign. Be interesting to see if he also gets the Spurs game to make it fully official.
Tough for Ramsdale but that's competition at the high level.

 

[Donaldo]

Seems the Everton game wasn't a freebie and Raya starts our CL campaign. Be interesting to see if he also gets the Spurs game to make it fully official.
Tough for Ramsdale but that's competition at the high level.

Why are you a newbie

 

[awop]

Why are you a newbie

Who knows

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Havertz is still hiding in the game. Only 27 passes against PSV as an #8.

 

[awop]

Havertz is still hiding in the game. Only 27 passes against PSV as an #8.

He looked a bit better when he moved upfront but that's not saying much, PSV were so poor. He needs a goal fast. Against Spurs would be nice

 

[WeePat]

Havertz is still hiding in the game. Only 27 passes against PSV as an #8.

Arteta should move him up to false 9 during games a bit. He's used to that role, and maybe could get his confidence going a bit. Right now he just seems to be overly passive, just gets the ball and picks the safest pass possible and leisurely jogs on. That seems to be the extent of his contribution to the attack. He works reasonably hard off the ball but he seems to hide a lot when you have the ball. He's Arteta's guy though, so he's gonna have to stick with him for at least the next 6 months.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

He looked a bit better when he moved upfront but that's not saying much, PSV were so poor. He needs a goal fast. Against Spurs would be nice

He is actually pretty bad in terms of involvement in the game. As an #8 his passes # is 27, while Odegaard is 70, Rice is 53, ESR is 17 and Nelson is 24 as sub. He is hiding in the game.

 

[ThierryHenry14]

Arteta should move him up to false 9 during games a bit. He's used to that role, and maybe could get his confidence going a bit. Right now he just seems to be overly passive, just gets the ball and picks the safest pass possible and leisurely jogs on. That seems to be the extent of his contribution to the attack. He works reasonably hard off the ball but he seems to hide a lot when you have the ball. He's Arteta's guy though, so he's gonna have to stick with him for at least the next 6 months.

You are correct. He definitely needs help to rebuild his confidence.