Arsenal 22/23 - go to new thread

[Terry Chango]

Arteta so far has spent £430mil since he arrived (I hope I added it up right). Ten Hag has spent half of that already in one transfer window with £229 spent over the summer. What immediate impact or progress do you expect to see from Ten Hag? If he only wins the Carabao Cup (without seriously challenging for the title) after spending so much, how would you assess him?

Sure he’s not had the time yet, but he’s definitely been backed financially much more than Arteta was in his first 6 months. Arteta won the FA Cup and finished 8th his first season (but he came mid way through 19/20 season) and spent £103mil in his first proper transfer window. If we adjust the league table in 19/20 for only Arteta’s time, we’d be 6th.
Ten Hag has spent more than double that, will probably finish 3rd and win Carabao Cup, maybe EL. If United with the EL then definitely Ten Hag has made the bigger immediate impact, but he’s also spent double what Arteta did at the same stage.

Just fine thanks.

He’s already bagged the first available trophy and still competing in 3 further competitions just to mention a few of the positives.

Man inherited a shit show and mentally insecure squad which was then followed by further shit shows with Ronaldo, benching the club captain, greenwood and the club being put up for sale.

We literally played without a striker till the world cup and we still are now.

Do you think any United fan thought we’d be challenging for the title because he spent £229 million ?

 

[GoonerGirly]

First paragraph is a strange comparison. Because not only does a manager need investment, they need time and to build on what they have taken on at the club.

Arteta won the FA Cup with Arsenal but Arsenal had already won that 3 times in 6 years without Arteta, which shows he inherited a capable squad. Its not really over achieving.

When ETH arrived at United they were a mess and hadn't won a trophy for 5 years. So alot more work was needed.

Also transfer inflation has occurred since Arteta took over Arsenal. It also helps that he bought players at good prices from his state backed mates at Manchester City.

If Arteta doesn't win the league this year and falls away next year to finish 4th/5th in the league, will you count him as a success?

We finished 8th when Arteta came. Winning the FA Cup may not have been over achieving historically, but we were in freefall. We were a mess by then, probably culminating in Xhaka's infamous confrontation with his own fans in Oct 2019. Arteta arrived two months later. Winning the cup salvaged what otherwise would have a terrible season. But honestly, I'm not going to argue about who inherited the worse squad - they were both pretty bad. Perhaps United's mess is worse considering you've spent more money over the past decade.

As for your question - it will depend on how he does in the cups and how the squad is looking. If I think we're heading in the right direction and improving, then I'd like to think I'd give him the benefit of the doubt. But as I've said before, I was "Arteta out" not too long ago so if this does seem to be a fluke season, I can see myself turning on him again. But it's too hard to look past the next 2 months right now.

 

[GoonerBear]

First paragraph is a strange comparison. Because not only does a manager need investment, they need time and to build on what they have taken on at the club.

Arteta won the FA Cup with Arsenal but Arsenal had already won that 3 times in 6 years without Arteta, which shows he inherited a capable squad. Its not really over achieving.

When ETH arrived at United they were a mess and hadn't won a trophy for 5 years. So alot more work was needed.

Also transfer inflation has occurred since Arteta took over Arsenal. It also helps that he bought players at good prices from his state backed mates at Manchester City.

If Arteta doesn't win the league this year and falls away next year to finish 4th/5th in the league, will you count him as a success?

Why was a lot more work needed at Arsenal? You had a team that had finished 2nd in the league twice in the last 5 years, we had a team that hadn't finished top 4 for a few years. League position is probably a better indicator of a teams standing rather than winning Cups, no?

 

[Castia]

What about 16/17 when we finished 5th and you finished 6th? Or 18/19 when we finished 5th and you finished 6th again? Or 21/22 when we finished 5th and you finished 6th yet again?

Get the 5th place trophy out! Congrats

 

[GoonerBear]

Get the 5th place trophy out! Congrats

Not the point of the post, but good deflection there.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Just fine thanks.

He’s already bagged the first available trophy and still competing in 3 further competitions just to mention a few of the positives.

Man inherited a shit show and mentally insecure squad which was then followed by further shit shows with Ronaldo, benching the club captain, greenwood and the club being put up for sale.

We literally played without a striker till the world cup and we still are now.

Do you think any United fan thought we’d be challenging for the title because he spent £229 million ?

I agree with you. If it wasn't clear, my response was to another poster who kept questioning whether Arteta has failed so far as he hasn't put together a squad that can compete on multiple fronts. I then compared ETH's first 6 months or so with Arteta's. They actually have done quite similarly, but ETH has probably done better to (probably) finish 3rd and win at least one cup (may be more). But then again he'd have been here almost a year by the end of the season. Arteta came to us midway through the season so it's hard to make straight comparisons.

And no, I don't think anyone thought you'd be challenging for the title, and you're not. Just like no one thought we'd be even after Arteta has spent as much as he has. But somehow we are.

 

[Bilbo]

It's a shame this thread has turned into an 'our problems were bigger than yours' debate.

Arsenal are right to bin off the cups to focus on the title. They may well never get an opportunity this good again. I respect them for focusing on their priorities, and in the same vein Arsenal fans should be showing respect to United for refusing to do the same thing and fight for everything. I'm convinced we would still be in a title race had we done the same.

Ultimately its a gamble for them. In the weeks to come we could see a scenario where United win 3 trophies & City win the league and CL, and then Arsenal's season becomes almost entirely irrelevant & forgotten. Or they win it, and everything is rosy. Either way it's done them no harm to remove Europa League fixtures from the schedule.

 

[TheReligion]

First paragraph is a strange comparison. Because not only does a manager need investment, they need time and to build on what they have taken on at the club.

Arteta won the FA Cup with Arsenal but Arsenal had already won that 3 times in 6 years without Arteta, which shows he inherited a capable squad. Its not really over achieving.

When ETH arrived at United they were a mess and hadn't won a trophy for 5 years. So alot more work was needed.

Also transfer inflation has occurred since Arteta took over Arsenal. It also helps that he bought players at good prices from his state backed mates at Manchester City.

If Arteta doesn't win the league this year and falls away next year to finish 4th/5th in the league, will you count him as a success?

Another point would be the vast experience Arteta had of both playing and coaching in England prior to taking over at Arsenal.

Much smoother transition for him than someone like Ten Hag moving from overseas and having to learn about the league and teams etc.

 

[TheReligion]

It's a shame this thread has turned into an 'our problems were bigger than yours' debate.

I agree although sadly it descends in to that as some of our Arsenal fans are unwilling to accept any criticism or questioning about their club without having to resort to a comparison with United/Ten Hag etc.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Another point would be the vast experience Arteta had of both playing and coaching in England prior to taking over at Arsenal.

Much smoother transition for him than someone like Ten Hag moving from overseas and having to learn about the league and teams etc.

I don't think Arteta wins the experience debate here. This is literally his first job as a first team coach at this level (or any level, really). Playing second fiddle to Pep for a few years in the well-oiled machine that City is, is vastly different to taking over as the manager of an Arsenal team in turmoil when he arrived. ETH had been managing Ajax since 17/18 season.

 

[Daydreamer]

It's a shame this thread has turned into an 'our problems were bigger than yours' debate.

Arsenal are right to bin off the cups to focus on the title. They may well never get an opportunity this good again. I respect them for focusing on their priorities, and in the same vein Arsenal fans should be showing respect to United for refusing to do the same thing and fight for everything. I'm convinced we would still be in a title race had we done the same.

Ultimately its a gamble for them. In the weeks to come we could see a scenario where United win 3 trophies & City win the league and CL, and then Arsenal's season becomes almost entirely irrelevant & forgotten. Or they win it, and everything is rosy. Either way it's done them no harm to remove Europa League fixtures from the schedule.

I pretty much agree. Except I don’t think we binned off the cups… we just rotated a bit and lost. It’s turned into pages of discussion, but it’s really not that big of a story.

United have taken each cup competition very seriously and have already been victorious in one of them. But they are also 16 points behind Arsenal in the league. It makes perfect sense for United to prioritise the cups, while it’s the obvious decision for Arsenal to focus on their first title challenge in many years.

Each Manager is doing what is right for their team considering the position they’re in and the resources available to them.

Personally, I think we should have rotated more. Saliba and Tomiyasu’s injuries could be quite a problem for us.

 

[cyberman]

It's a shame this thread has turned into an 'our problems were bigger than yours' debate.

Arsenal are right to bin off the cups to focus on the title. They may well never get an opportunity this good again. I respect them for focusing on their priorities, and in the same vein Arsenal fans should be showing respect to United for refusing to do the same thing and fight for everything. I'm convinced we would still be in a title race had we done the same.

Ultimately its a gamble for them. In the weeks to come we could see a scenario where United win 3 trophies & City win the league and CL, and then Arsenal's season becomes almost entirely irrelevant & forgotten. Or they win it, and everything is rosy. Either way it's done them no harm to remove Europa League fixtures from the schedule.

They didn’t bin off the EL tie though, they tried to win it and they failed

 

[GoonerGirly]

I agree although sadly it descends in to that as some of our Arsenal fans are unwilling to accept any criticism or questioning about their club without having to resort to a comparison with United/Ten Hag etc.

Comparisons to United/ETH are inevitable on this forum. And I think if you're going to criticise Arteta's success or failure, it's only reasonable to make comparisons to other managers and what they've achieved in a similar timeframe and/or money spent.

 

[TheReligion]

Comparisons to United/ETH are inevitable on this forum. And I think if you're going to criticise Arteta's success or failure, it's only reasonable to make comparisons to other managers and what they've achieved in a similar timeframe and/or money spent.

I don’t think its a good look to be that defensive over something that every criticism or difference of view is met with ‘yeah but United….’ or ‘yeah but Ten Hag…’.

It’s deflecting away from the subject and ends up creating silly comparisons too often.

 

[TheReligion]

I pretty much agree. Except I don’t think we binned off the cups… we just rotated a bit and lost. It’s turned into pages of discussion, but it’s really not that big of a story.

United have taken each cup competition very seriously and have already been victorious in one of them. But they are also 16 points behind Arsenal in the league. It makes perfect sense for United to prioritise the cups, while it’s the obvious decision for Arsenal to focus on their first title challenge in many years.

Each Manager is doing what is right for their team considering the position they’re in and the resources available to them.

Personally, I think we should have rotated more. Saliba and Tomiyasu’s injuries could be quite a problem for us.

United were 5 points behind at one point but have taken each competition seriously throughout.

This is likely why we’ve dropped off somewhat but that’s how the cookie crumbles. United haven’t just started talking every competition seriously at this point. We’ve been trying to win as much as we can since the start of the season.

 

[TheReligion]

I don't think Arteta wins the experience debate here. This is literally his first job as a first team coach at this level (or any level, really). Playing second fiddle to Pep for a few years in the well-oiled machine that City is, is vastly different to taking over as the manager of an Arsenal team in turmoil when he arrived. ETH had been managing Ajax since 17/18 season.

Experience in England and the PL? Arteta had a huge head start. Don’t think that’s up for debate really.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Personally, I think we should have rotated more. Saliba and Tomiyasu’s injuries could be quite a problem for us.

Tomi looks like he may be out for the season. Such a shame, guy can't catch a break with injuries. Saliba's looks less serious but obviously he would be the much bigger loss. So much about how we play and set up is because of Saliba/Gabriel's physicality and mobility. If Saliba is out, Holding-Gabriel really makes me nervous. Perhaps White in CB? Can Tierney play RB?

 

[GoonerGirly]

Experience in England and the PL? Arteta had a huge head start. Don’t think that’s up for debate really.

In England/PL sure. But overall managerial experience, ETH obviously wins hands down. This is Arteta's first proper managerial position, which is why his appointment was quite contentious. I personally wasn't sure what to make of it at the time. I remember actually wanting Conte at some stage, hah! And first 2 seasons finishing 8th, it wasn't looking like the gamble had paid off.

 

[Bilbo]

I pretty much agree. Except I don’t think we binned off the cups… we just rotated a bit and lost

They didn’t bin off the EL tie though, they tried to win it and they failed

They tried in the sense that they turned up and played their opponent, but not really. It was always very clear that the cups were an unwanted distraction

 

[Daydreamer]

I don’t think its a good look to be that defensive over something that every criticism or difference of view is met with ‘yeah but United….’ or ‘yeah but Ten Hag…’.

It’s deflecting away from the subject and ends up creating silly comparisons too often.

Is it a silly comparison, though?

In both of their first seasons they were heavily backed, won a domestic trophy and significantly improved their clubs league position relative to their predecessor.

Therefore, if United fans are happy with ETH (as they should be - he’s doing a great job) then drawing comparisons with him when discussing Arteta on a United forum seems like pretty normal thing to do.

 

[Chief123]

Looks like the Arsenal fans are cracking up before their team.

 

[TheReligion]

Is it a silly comparison, though?

In both of their first seasons they were heavily backed, won a domestic trophy and significantly improved their clubs league position relative to their predecessor.

Therefore, if United fans are happy with ETH (as they should be - he’s doing a great job) then drawing comparisons with him when discussing Arteta on a United forum seems like pretty normal thing to do.

I’m not sure how any of that is relevant to what was being discussed though.

 

[Daydreamer]

I’m not sure how any of that is relevant to what was being discussed though.

You’re not sure how me a saying “it’s not a silly comparison” is relevant to you saying “it’s a silly comparison”?

 

[TheReligion]

You’re not sure how me a saying “it’s not a silly comparison” is relevant to you saying “it’s a silly comparison”?

Bringing Ten Hag in to a companion with Arteta, based on me suggesting that it’s not particularly impressive that the squad Arteta has assembled over 31/2 years is still unable to play and compete more than once a week, is irrelevant and deflecting.

The same way talking about wages and transfer fees prior to Arteta and Ten Hag is also irrelevant and again deflecting.

 

[AshRK]

Why was a lot more work needed at Arsenal? You had a team that had finished 2nd in the league twice in the last 5 years, we had a team that hadn't finished top 4 for a few years. League position is probably a better indicator of a teams standing rather than winning Cups, no?

We finished 2nd under Ole with the squad that had Cavani Greenwood Martial Pogba as integral players. We finished 6th with 58 points (our worst). EtH got a broken squad with Ronaldo.

Keeping your logic, Arteta took over an Arsenal side that had reached EL final and finished 5th,5th,4th and 2nd and won multiple FA cup since 2014. So Arteta finishing 8th and 8th should be a disaster. This whole idea that Arteta took over a shitshow but ETH took over a decent squad is bs.

 

[TheReligion]

Looks like the Arsenal fans are cracking up before their team.

They do have a habit of being ultra defensive over every little thing.

It’s a bit of a complex.

 

[TheReligion]

We finished 2nd under Ole with the squad that had Cavani Greenwood Martial Pogba as integral players. We finished 6th with 58 points (our worst). EtH got a broken squad with Ronaldo.

Keeping your logic, Arteta took over an Arsenal side that had reached EL final and finished 5th,5th,4th and 2nd and won multiple FA cup since 2014. So Arteta finishing 8th and 8th should be a disaster. This whole idea that Arteta took over a shitshow but ETH took over a decent squad is bs.

You are correct however some will say ‘but your squad and wages are more expensive so must be better’.

It’s disingenuous and plain stupid to use that as a barometer. I think they know that though but it’s an easy thing to say to deflect from the actual point being discussed.

Then they’ll complain the thread has gone off topic.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

Let me introduce you to the Wout Weghorst 22/23 Performance thread.

I get the rest of your argument but it’s somewhat disingenuous to talk about ‘squad values’ when, from a United perspective, £80million of centre back is not even seen by the current manager as having anywhere close to that value [one example].

I'd agree that squad cost plus wages can never tell the entire story but I think it's relevant to why I, for one, don't expect Arteta and his current squad to be all in for all competitions in a year when he has a golden opportunity to try to win the league.

I just don't see the squad as experienced and deep enough to really win the EL and PL so I see rotating in the EL to try to keep the starting XI fresh for the PL as the right choice. Of course, we won't know until it's all over and hindsight is always perfect. If the injuries have a negative effect and he doesn't win the league then it will be easier to look back and say he should have rotated more. Either way the season exceeded my expectations. I was expecting 4th at most in the summer.

 

[Sandikan]

We finished 2nd under Ole with the squad that had Cavani Greenwood Martial Pogba as integral players. We finished 6th with 58 points (our worst). EtH got a broken squad with Ronaldo.

Keeping your logic, Arteta took over an Arsenal side that had reached EL final and finished 5th,5th,4th and 2nd and won multiple FA cup since 2014. So Arteta finishing 8th and 8th should be a disaster. This whole idea that Arteta took over a shitshow but ETH took over a decent squad is bs.

You could say Arteta was exceptionally lucky to stay in the job finishing 8th twice. At United there's no chance that'd happen.
Even Moysie only managed 7th.

 

[GoonerBear]

We finished 2nd under Ole with the squad that had Cavani Greenwood Martial Pogba as integral players. We finished 6th with 58 points (our worst). EtH got a broken squad with Ronaldo.

Keeping your logic, Arteta took over an Arsenal side that had reached EL final and finished 5th,5th,4th and 2nd and won multiple FA cup since 2014. So Arteta finishing 8th and 8th should be a disaster. This whole idea that Arteta took over a shitshow but ETH took over a decent squad is bs.

And so is the idea that Arsenal was a good squad and ETH took over a shit show. That was the point I was arguing against, I wasn't stating it was the other way round, that's the difference.

United were 5 points behind at one point but have taken each competition seriously throughout.

This is likely why we’ve dropped off somewhat but that’s how the cookie crumbles. United haven’t just started talking every competition seriously at this point. We’ve been trying to win as much as we can since the start of the season.

With this statement though you could be saying that Arsenal were right to rotate then?

 

[GoonerGirly]

Bringing Ten Hag in to a companion with Arteta, based on me suggesting that it’s not particularly impressive that the squad Arteta has assembled over 31/2 years is still unable to play and compete more than once a week, is irrelevant and deflecting.

The distinction I think you’re missing is that we’re not just competing for top 4, we're in a bonafide title race. It is actually incredible to think that we’ve been league leaders for most of the season. If we were scrapping for top 4 or if City had been leading most of the season, I think Arteta would have taken the cups more seriously and our squad depth wouldn’t feel as tenuous. But the pressures of a title race, especially for a squad as young as ours, is another level. And with the machine that is City breathing down our necks, there is very little room for error now. We so badly want this, it hurts.

 

[Daydreamer]

Bringing Ten Hag in to a companion with Arteta, based on me suggesting that it’s not particularly impressive that the squad Arteta has assembled over 31/2 years is still unable to play and compete more than once a week, is irrelevant and deflecting.

The same way talking about wages and transfer fees prior to Arteta and Ten Hag is also irrelevant and again deflecting.

I’ll admit, I don’t really get the fuss about 3.5 years. We’re challenging for the league in Arteta’s third full season. I’m happy with that. If you’re not happy with it… that’s cool.

Wages and transfer fees prior to each Manager’s appointment is highly relevant. It gives context to the situations they inherited and determines the resources they have in the present.

Both Arsenal’s total squad cost AND wage bill are closer to Bournemouth than to Manchester United.

That’s pretty relevant information when assessing how well a Manager and the Club they work for are performing.

 

[TheReligion]

With this statement though you could be saying that Arsenal were right to rotate then?

The distinction I think you’re missing is that we’re not just competing for top 4, we're in a bonafide title race. It is actually incredible to think that we’ve been league leaders for most of the season. If we were scrapping for top 4 or if City had been leading most of the season, I think Arteta would have taken the cups more seriously and our squad depth wouldn’t feel as thin as it does. But the pressures of a title race, especially for a squad as young as ours, is another level. And with the machine that is City breathing down our necks, there is very little room for error now. We so badly want this, it hurts.

I’ll admit, I don’t really get the fuss about 3.5 years. We’re challenging for the league in Arteta’s third full season. I’m happy with that. If you’re not happy with it… that’s cool.

Wages and transfer fees prior to each Manager’s appointment is highly relevant. It gives context to the situations they inherited and determines the resources they have in the present.

Both Arsenal’s total squad cost AND wage bill are closer to Bournemouth than to Manchester United.

That’s pretty relevant information when assessing how well a Manager and the Club they work for are performing.

Again I think the point which you are all missing is quite straightforward.

For all the praise Arsenal are rightly getting I think hiding behind excuses as to why the squad still isn’t capable of focusing on more that one game per week is quite weak if I’m honest.

Arteta has had plenty of time, money and patience. He’s been allowed to shape the squad to his image and has been backed throughout in making key decisions, Auba and Ozil prime examples.

I believe he should be at a point that he can interchange players in his side without seeing a catastrophic drop off and avoid the need to solely focus on one thing at a time. The reliance on Partey is quite a good example of this really.

Using historic squad values and wages to hide behind the above is a deliberate red herring and way to deflect from that point.

 

[GoonerGirly]

Again I think the point which you are all missing is quite straightforward.

For all the praise Arsenal are rightly getting I think hiding behind excuses as to why the squad still isn’t capable of focusing on more that one game per week is quite weak if I’m honest.

Arteta has had plenty of time, money and patience. He’s been allowed to shape the squad to his image and has been backed throughout in making key decisions, Auba and Ozil prime examples.

I believe he should be at a point that he can interchange players in his side without seeing a catastrophic drop off and avoid the need to solely focus on one thing at a time. The reliance on Partey is quite a good example of this really.

Using historic squad values and wages to hide behind the above is a deliberate red herring and way to deflect from that point.

I don’t think anyone is making excuses for Arteta, as we obviously don’t agree with your contention that he has under achieved or should be achieving more with this squad. Most Arsenal fans are delighted with what he’s done and the timeframe so far. Here’s a question for you - when do you realistically expect ETH to be in a proper title race and competing on multiple fronts? I’d love to hear what your expectation is, as apparently 3 years is too long.

I do agree about Partey though- he probably should have better backup for him by now considering his fitness issues. It’s unfortunate because Partey barely got injured in Spain. But he’s such a superb player that finding adequate backup who is just as good on and off the ball, has proved impossible so far. But looks like midfield is the primary focus in the summer.

 

[oneniltothearsenal]

I’ll admit, I don’t really get the fuss about 3.5 years. We’re challenging for the league in Arteta’s third full season. I’m happy with that. If you’re not happy with it… that’s cool.

Wages and transfer fees prior to each Manager’s appointment is highly relevant. It gives context to the situations they inherited and determines the resources they have in the present.

Both Arsenal’s total squad cost AND wage bill are closer to Bournemouth than to Manchester United.

That’s pretty relevant information when assessing how well a Manager and the Club they work for are performing.

Exactly. None of my friends that follow the PL, either Arsenal fans or other teams, expected a title challenge out of Arteta's squad this year. I think it's disingenuous, at best, to say if he can't go toe to toe in a title challenge with state backed City and at the same time go all in on the EL and FA cups with this young and inexperienced squad that it's somehow a failure. Of course if he doesn't win the league, he'll face criticism at this point, probably some warranted and some unwarranted but finishing 2nd is still two places higher than the best I expected for the year in August.

 

[Daydreamer]

Again I think the point which you are all missing is quite straightforward.

For all the praise Arsenal are rightly getting I think hiding behind excuses as to why the squad still isn’t capable of focusing on more that one game per week is quite weak if I’m honest.

Arteta has had plenty of time, money and patience. He’s been allowed to shape the squad to his image and has been backed throughout in making key decisions, Auba and Ozil prime examples.

I believe he should be at a point that he can interchange players in his side without seeing a catastrophic drop off and avoid the need to solely focus on one thing at a time. The reliance on Partey is quite a good example of this really.

Using historic squad values and wages to hide behind the above is a deliberate red herring and way to deflect from that point.

If you think that squad cost and squad wage bill are “red herrings” when discussing *checks notes* the strength of the squad… then I don’t know where to go from there.

Arsenal don’t have the squad depth of our rivals because we don’t have the resources of our rivals. Arteta being in place for 3 years won’t magically make up for the fact that the two closest teams to us in the league spent nearly twice as much buying their players and pay them over twice as much in wages.

It’s true, we haven’t challenged on four fronts this season. Just like every other team in the country.

 

[TheReligion]

I don’t think anyone is making excuses for Arteta, as we obviously don’t agree with your contention that he has under achieved or should be achieving more with this squad. Most Arsenal fans are delighted with what he’s done and the timeframe so far. Here’s a question for you - when do you realistically expect ETH to be in a proper title race and competing on multiple fronts? I’d love to hear what your expectation is, as apparently 3 years is too long.

I do agree about Partey though- he probably should have better backup for him by now considering his fitness issues. It’s unfortunate because Partey barely got injured in Spain. But he’s such a superb player that finding adequate backup who is just as good on and off the ball, has proved impossible so far. But looks like midfield is the primary focus in the summer.

Well as we are moving on to Ten Hag again he’s already been in the conversation of a title race this season and if not for the stoppage time winner by Nketiah it would have been even tighter at that point. In terms of competing on all fronts he’s doing that currently. How far he’ll go we will have to see.

I would say another transfer window (he’s only had one) will allow him to off load more players and bring in another 4/5. By then you could start to argue it’s more his team and you’d like to see more positive progression.

He will have also had 12 months to work with what he’s got and establish who fits and who doesn’t.

 

[Chief123]

So true!

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[TheReligion]

If you think that squad cost and wage bill are “red herrings” when discussing *checks notes* the strength of the squad… then I don’t know where to go from there.

Arsenal don’t have the squad depth of our rivals because we don’t have the resources of our rivals. Arteta being in place for 3 years won’t magically make up for the fact that the two closest teams to us in the league spent nearly twice as much buying their players and pay them over twice as much in wages.

It’s true, we haven’t challenged on four fronts this season. Just like every other team in the country.

You’re just changing what was being discussed to suit your narrative.

An expensive squad that has had a mix of players from different managers and includes poor deals and wages from the Woodward era doesn’t indicate a strong squad that suits Ten Hags philosophy. Surely you’re not trying to argue that as that would be beyond stupid..

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

So true!

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THIS!