Athletic Bilbao's player recruitment policy

Rozay

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I'm not sure I have that much of an opinion on it either way, but I must say I have always been surprised that there hasn't been more discussion or controversy around it in the game. Unless of course there has been, and I have totally missed it all.

Football today is particularly sensitive with regards to equality issues, and a club openly declaring that you cannot play for them unless you are from a certain geographical region seems to have gone down surprisingly well.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but when Zenit's fans stated they did not want black players at the club, there was an issue made of it (rightly so, of course).

I don't know if the term is too simplistic, but Bilbao's recruitment policy seems, well... racist.
 

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They employ kids from other nationalities, which is how they get away with it. It's like a primary school being only for children who live in the area, except on a bigger scale.

Like the primary school analogy, it's probably a stupid idea. (often you hear of kids being turned away from their nearest school because they aren't "in the area" enough.)
 

jeff_goldblum

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I wouldn't say it's racist. You have to remember that historically the Basque people have been oppressed by the elites in Spanish society, the modern definition of racism is that it is discrimination plus the institutional power to exercise that discrimination. I'm all for Athletic providing a cultural institution for the Basque people in a society that is still a lot more racist towards Basques than it likes to believe.
 

Rozay

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I wouldn't say it's racist. You have to remember that historically the Basque people have been oppressed by the elites in Spanish society, the modern definition of racism is that it is discrimination plus the institutional power to exercise that discrimination. I'm all for Athletic providing a cultural institution for the Basque people in a society that is still a lot more racist towards Basques than it likes to believe.
Surely not giving somebody a 'job' on the basis of where they are from is a bit racist though? By any definition.
 

NinjaFletch

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I think it's a pretty admirable policy and nice that its working for them.

I don't think it's one that should be repeated elsewhere though.
 

jeff_goldblum

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Surely not giving somebody a 'job' on the basis of where they are from is a bit racist though? By any definition.

Apologies if I'm not too eloquent on the subject because I'm not an expert, but basically the vast majority (if not all) of Western societies are racist by default and whilst in an ideal world people would be given equal treatment based on merit, we don't live in that world and whilst it seems counter-intuitive, the quickest way to achieving true equality is to discriminate in favour of groups that are institutionally disadvantaged.
 

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This is the first time I've ever heard someone accuse Bilbao of being racist/xenophobic!

I respect their policy.
 

Rozay

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Apologies if I'm not too eloquent on the subject because I'm not an expert, but basically the vast majority (if not all) of Western societies are racist by default and whilst in an ideal world people would be given equal treatment based on merit, we don't live in that world and whilst it seems counter-intuitive, the quickest way to achieving true equality is to discriminate in favour of groups that are institutionally disadvantaged.
While I understand and even agree with parts of that, Bilbao are a professional football team, governed by the footballing bodies and are in the public eye. Their recruitment policy is hardly a secret, and has been generally unchallenged it seems.

I'm not even questioning the validity of their policy here, I'm questioning the fact that it appears to be done unopposed, in top level football in the current game. That is the bit I find surprising.
 

Rozay

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This is the first time I've ever heard someone accuse Bilbao of being racist/xenophobic!

I respect their policy.
This is my point. I have not heard anyone say anything about the fact that a top prop team only lets you play for them if you are from a certain area. I'm not even saying I disagree with the policy, just that you would expect something to be said about a club openly adopting such recruitment criteria.
 

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While I understand and even agree with parts of that, Bilbao are a professional football team, governed by the footballing bodies and are in the public eye. Their recruitment policy is hardly a secret, and has been generally unchallenged it seems.

I'm not even questioning the validity of their policy here, I'm questioning the fact that it appears to be done unopposed, in top level football in the current game. That is the bit I find surprising.
Yeah its perhaps worth a discussion, but like most I don't see any harm in it. The big difference with Shaktar or whomever is you'd imagine a black fan attending games would be subjected to similar discrimination (maybe not as intense but you get the idea). Bilbao aren't like that, they just see the club as a cultural institution that happens to play football. I wouldn't consider it racism, though technically one could make that argument.
 

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Surely not giving somebody a 'job' on the basis of where they are from is a bit racist though? By any definition.

No its not racist, it could be construed as Xenophobic. I don't think there is any rule surrounding Athletic Bilbao that says if you are black and the son of immigrants but you are born within the Basque regions you still cannot play for the club. If there is then I stand corrected but the rule is there for reasons of political allegiance (which are outdated but there for historical reasons) I don't think it was conceived with any real notion of racial purity or otherwise.
 

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I can see why people like the idea and it's certainly not racist.

However, the only reason a football club should reject a player is because of their ability to play football. Where you were born or raised should have feck all to do with it.
 

Rowem

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This is my point. I have not heard anyone say anything about the fact that a top prop team only lets you play for them if you are from a certain area. I'm not even saying I disagree with the policy, just that you would expect something to be said about a club openly adopting such recruitment criteria.
Yeah. Probably because there have been no complaints from individuals that haven't been "hired".

If there was a youngster in the area who was refused because of the ethnicity of his parents then I expect there'd be a ruckus. However wikipedia informs me that so long as someone is 'footballistically trained' in the Basque Country then they're eligible, and in recent years some players without 'direct ancestry' have played for Bilbao.
 

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I'm not sure I have that much of an opinion on it either way, but I must say I have always been surprised that there hasn't been more discussion or controversy around it in the game. Unless of course there has been, and I have totally missed it all.

Football today is particularly sensitive with regards to equality issues, and a club openly declaring that you cannot play for them unless you are from a certain geographical region seems to have gone down surprisingly well.

I know it's not quite the same thing, but when Zenit's fans stated they did not want black players at the club, there was an issue made of it (rightly so, of course).

I don't know if the term is too simplistic, but Bilbao's recruitment policy seems, well... racist.
Just found this interesting little article about this:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/...681/Athletic_Bilbao_field_first_black_player/

I'll echo what some have said in the comments section. Given that they've explicitly shown that they'll field a player regardless of colour its a stretch to call them racist. Nationalist certainly, xenophobic arguably. Personally I don't really think its either.
 

Rozay

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Yeah. Probably because there have been no complaints from individuals that haven't been "hired".

If there was a youngster in the area who was refused because of the ethnicity of his parents then I expect there'd be a ruckus. However wikipedia informs me that so long as someone is 'footballistically trained' in the Basque Country then they're eligible, and in recent years some players without 'direct ancestry' have played for Bilbao.
Do you think it is right that an English kid, for example, who may have grown up as a Bilbao fan makes it pro, but knows he has no chance of ever playing for them solely because he is English?

I mean, I respect the Bilbao sentiment, but that fact just doesn't seem right to me. It's not a national team, it's a club team, and effectively, a professional company/organisation. By rights, surely they should be hiring the best man for the job.

Also, I know this sort of stuff happens in various industry. Ferguson has probably preferred players because they are British in the past. That said, I doubt we or another club would be daft enough to publicly declare that this is due to our policy that we don't believe non-British players should play for us. I doubt it would be accepted.
 

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Rowem

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Do you think it is right that an English kid, for example, who may have grown up as a Bilbao fan makes it pro, but knows he has no chance of ever playing for them solely because he is English?

I mean, I respect the Bilbao sentiment, but that fact just doesn't seem right to me. It's not a national team, it's a club team, and effectively, a professional company/organisation. By rights, surely they should be hiring the best man for the job.

Also, I know this sort of stuff happens in various industry. Ferguson has probably preferred players because they are British in the past. That said, I doubt we or another club would be daft enough to publicly declare that this is due to our policy that we don't believe non-British players should play for us. I doubt it would be accepted.

I don't really see it as a problem, no.

One reason companies have a responsibility to not discriminate against minorities because those companies are often vital to providing work in a local area. A company in Bilbao has no responsibility to provide work for someone from England, who could presumably play for numerous other football clubs. Whether or not someone is a 'fan' is not an issue, ethically or legally imo.

And it's probably largely incidental but I'm not nationalistic either. I think nations are bizarre, artificial amalgamations of real communities and regions. So I have a natural leaning to side with the Basque country here.
 

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A newbie has asked me to post this:

There's a reason behind the actual policy and why it is so critical to Athletic Club's history. Athletic Club is owned by its socios, and they are the ones that push for a policy of only Euskals in the club. There are so many other reasons as to why it is preferred over buying foreigners, some of them being:

  • Athletic Club’s President is Josu Urrutia. In 2011 when the socios were voting for the new President of the club, it was Urrutia against Fernando García. It was Urrutia that claimed that he would sign manager Marcelo Bielsa and would place more importance on the cantera and the development of the facilities. Urrutia was a graduate of the Lezama, playing his entire football career for Athletic Club. With his promises he won by a margin of 2261 votes against García. His presence shows the Basque nature of the club as appointing a Euskal who was a former player for the club is a big step. García was a Euskal but he was a lawyer, never a footballer.
  • It is a way to preserve the Euskadi ways since Euskal Herria is an autonomous province and self governed as it’s the best possible way to bring Basque football back onto the map as it always was. Unlike clubs who only care about wins and trophies, Athletic Club and the Basque policy as a whole try to promote Basque football by raising Basque youth trained in the methodology which defines their football. You think of how Barcelona play mostly with La Masia graduates, and it is because they are taught the Cruijff method. You look at their classes and almost all of them won their trophies because their style of football is the best in their region. Athletic Club on the other hand follow the same type of method, but instead of the Barça-way they do it the Basque-way because in the Lezama, they are taught a style of football that is unique in many ways. This not only emphasizes the difference between the Euskadi principles and the Catalonian, Galician, Andalusian, Valencian, and the other styles of football.
  • There is a difference between Catalan, Euskal, Andalusian, Valencian, and any other type of football. Many managers from the past for Athletic Club have not used the style of football that is solely taught through their cantera. 2011/2012 showed the difference within playing by the Euskadi method and another way. Bielsa is the only coach that had the audacity to play fully using the Euskadi style since Luis Fernandez; the rest of the managers all chose a more conservative style. You look at Athletic Club this year and then you see a very, very different style of football. The way Athletic Club played this season reminds me of Athletic Club under Caparros - pragmatic, conservative, and basic. To any Germans reading, Marcelo Bielsa is like Felix Magath. Like Quälix, he drills the players into the ground and forces them to play his style or else they do not play at all. In 2012, at points it was beautiful with everyone playing their own fantastic way. Bielsa developed Aurtunexte into a great left back, unearthing his world class potential for everyone to see. Bielsa developed Iraola into an attacking wingback who was devastating when he attacked. Remember how Iraola left 3 Man United players on the ground but then missed his chance in the Europa League? Bielsa developed Iturraspe into a midfield general being able to spread play from the back. Bielsa changed Javi Martinez from a defensive midfielder into a center back and he was world-class in his position. He was one of the best center backs in La Liga and if you understand how Bielsa played with Athletic Club you will really understand how great of a recognitionthat is. Bielsa got De Marcos, a versatile midfielder, to play everywhere on the pitch from left back, attacking midfielder, right winger, and in the center and with his Euskadi principles he made it work very well. De Marcos would interchange with Herrera, giving space for Muniain and Susaeta who both had free roles on the left and right but with Susaeta playing with more width and Muniain coming inside. Llorente was shown to be more than a poacher, playing as a false 9 and dropping deep into midfield, creating chances, linking up play with the others, and dominating the opposing centerbacks. Bielsa got them to play a special way but now that he, Javi, and Llorente are gone, it might go to waste especially if the new manager is like the ones before him, like Caparros. The idea is that the coach needs to play the way they are taught in order to excel. Otherwise it will go to waste.
  • In the late 1990s, there was a vote by the socios that was reported by El Mundo. It showed that 76% of the Athletic Club socios would rather see Athletic Club relegated to the Segunda than to see them cancel the Basque player policy. Athletic Club are one of the three clubs with Real Madrid and Barcelona that have never been relegated to the Segunda, and this is where they are very prideful, so the impact of that was very big. There is no way that Athletic Club would let the policy break because that would mean the failures of the second team and the feeder club (Bilbao B, Baskonia). There is no need for Athletic Club to break the policy because they already have a bright generation coming through.
I see some of you think it is a racist policy. As a matter of fact, it’s actually nationalistic and based on traditional Euskal values because as an autonomous country, Euskal Herria is the one with citizens who are most prideful regarding their past. Racism is when you are discriminating against a specific racial group. Athletic Club have recently promoted Jonas Ramalho, who is the first black Basque player to play for Athletic Club. Athletic Club’s club mission as per the socios is to promote the growth and progress of Basque football as a whole. It’s not even against discriminational policy in Spain, because the Spanish constitution has no ability to intervene because Euskal Herria is an autonomous country that is run by its own government. The key here is that unlike many other countries, in Spain each region understands the importance of preserving their own cultural identity. And this is what Athletic Club is about – the club identity is exactly related to their cultural background. If a player now has a direct link to Basque heritage, they will be welcomed, provided they have the talent. Are there any cases of foreigners going to Athletic Club, but then being denied the ability to play for them? Because it’s actually the opposite, you know. Athletic Club searches for players to play for them, and that is why their cantera has been so effective. For example, look at Ramalho. He is black, of Angolan descent, yet his mother is Basque. But the key factor in this is that Ramalho has lived in Euskal Herria since an early age, learned about the Basque culture, and even taught economics at the Universitad de Deusto. You look at a few of the players actually being Navarese, but then in general their group would identify themselves as pure Euskals.

It’s sort of playing a blind eye to things. Until 2011, the FIGC dictated that Italian clubs could only sign one non-EU player per year. Now, it is two. Is this not discrimination? In La Liga, you can only have 3 non-EU players in your squad. Recently, Diego Godin earned his Spanish citizenship so that Atlético can use another non-EU player. Is this not discrimination? People generally tend to look at things in a perspective that they want, regardless of the total picture. At the end of the day, you cannot impose a rule on one club but then have an even worse rule for the entire league. No double standards.
 

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I've read that it's a huge facade and they are pretty lax about Basqueness.
 

Rozay

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A newbie has asked me to post this:
Cheers, this was a very good and insightful post.

Having read it, I'm not totally convinced I agree with it, but at least I understand it better.

I think it's all very good for Bilbao, but every club is from somewhere, and if they all adopted this policy, then we would simply have national team football at club level. Hitler believed in creating an Aryan race by only having blonde-hair, blue-eyed Germans in Germany, with nobody else welcome. Of course, Bilbao are not putting other players in gas chambers!

On the basis that, despite how well paid it may be, football is still essentially a job - I'm not sure it is fully justifiable to restrict candidates, so long as they have the legal right to work, on the basis of where they are from.

I do appreciate the detailed explanation though.
 

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This is the first time I've ever heard someone accuse Bilbao of being racist/xenophobic!

I respect their policy.

There was a fairly lengthy discussion about this in the football forum before if memory serves, I think last year.
 

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Cheers, this was a very good and insightful post.

Having read it, I'm not totally convinced I agree with it, but at least I understand it better.

I think it's all very good for Bilbao, but every club is from somewhere, and if they all adopted this policy, then we would simply have national team football at club level. Hitler believed in creating an Aryan race by only having blonde-hair, blue-eyed Germans in Germany, with nobody else welcome. Of course, Bilbao are not putting other players in gas chambers!

On the basis that, despite how well paid it may be, football is still essentially a job - I'm not sure it is fully justifiable to restrict candidates, so long as they have the legal right to work, on the basis of where they are from.

I do appreciate the detailed explanation though.
That's just it. It isn't a normal job. Not anyone can be a footballer and you don't apply for it. They, like every team in the world, chooses to plays for them. No one can join a football club based on some minority rule. It's not an Englishman and a Spaniard with Basque roots going in for a job interview.

And come on dude. Hitler? Really?
 

Rozay

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That's just it. It isn't a normal job. Not anyone can be a footballer and you don't apply for it. They, like every team in the world, chooses to plays for them. No one can join a football club based on some minority rule. It's not an Englishman and a Spaniard with Basque roots going in for a job interview.

And come on dude. Hitler? Really?
I did not make a comparison to Hitler as a man, I compared Bilbao's policy to one of his policies, that has similar roots. Of course Bilbao are not Nazis!

That said, if Adolf happened to run a football club in addition to all the other fecked up shit he did, I'd imagine they would have a similar recruitment policy to Bilbao anyway.

As for the first part of your post, football to me is still a normal enough job for this argument. Yes, a club can choose who plays for them. But if an agent calls up a club to say, 'oh yea, about that centre-back position you wanted filled, I've got someone', of course the club does not have to sign him, but I'd like to think they can do better than 'we don't sign Italians'.
 

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While I understand and even agree with parts of that, Bilbao are a professional football team, governed by the footballing bodies and are in the public eye. Their recruitment policy is hardly a secret, and has been generally unchallenged it seems.

I'm not even questioning the validity of their policy here, I'm questioning the fact that it appears to be done unopposed, in top level football in the current game. That is the bit I find surprising.
It has been discussed before on here and the question is, who do you think is going to oppose it?

It is nothing like the policy of Zenith which comes from racism
 

Snow

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I did not make a comparison to Hitler as a man, I compared Bilbao's policy to one of his policies, that has similar roots. Of course Bilbao are not Nazis!

That said, if Adolf happened to run a football club in addition to all the other fecked up shit he did, I'd imagine they would have a similar recruitment policy to Bilbao anyway.

As for the first part of your post, football to me is still a normal enough job for this argument. Yes, a club can choose who plays for them. But if an agent calls up a club to say, 'oh yea, about that centre-back position you wanted filled, I've got someone', of course the club does not have to sign him, but I'd like to think they can do better than 'we don't sign Italians'.
That's not true. Their country of origin is irrelevant. It's the connections to the Basque culture that is important. They dropped the 'only Basque players' thing years ago. It's not as strict as the the codes for being a proper Jewish fellow. They're not like the Malfoys.

They currently have a French player in their squad. Lizarazu is a famous Frenchie that played for them as well. Real Sociedad got Griezmann when he was 14. Griezmann has no Basque family ties what so ever but he would qualify for a purchase.
 

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Just found this interesting little article about this:

http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/sport/...681/Athletic_Bilbao_field_first_black_player/

I'll echo what some have said in the comments section. Given that they've explicitly shown that they'll field a player regardless of colour its a stretch to call them racist. Nationalist certainly, xenophobic arguably. Personally I don't really think its either.
Thanks for that, just backs up my point, and although the rule itself was not intended as any sort of counter measure to Financial Fair play you could still look at it as something that in this day and age is actually still very refreshing. It forces any owner of the club to always put the local community first in terms of youth development, it should also mean that the club always lives within its means financially.

Personally I find it pretty refreshing in this day and age and it would at the very least be interesting if you could run an experiment to see how most top flight clubs would cope with such restrictions. I would bet at the very least they end up with brilliant youth academies simply out of necessity.
 

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I think it's a great policy. They've stuck to traditions even though it makes it harder for the club to succeed and I bet it has done a whole lot of good for the local society, young players are provided with good facilities that help them develop and are obviously given far more opportunities than they'd at any other club in the world. Emphasis on developing athletes from the local people first and foremost is a tremendous thing IMO.
 

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Understanding the Premiership more & more with each passing season, I can appreciate how little some fans understand Spanish football - especially the regional nuances. The Alacantara brothers, for example, are Galician. Rafinha is the younger brother of Thiago and the club want to loan him out to a Liga side to season him more next season. The club want him to play for a side playing in CL but the player would rather go to a smaller Galician club. It's in the culture for many of these players, like a religion. To represent your region is associated with glory in many of these autonomous regions of Spain. I think it's great but it can be to it's own detriment too. Bilbao aren't interested in losing their players on the open market like with Javi. Probably why they unfairly condemned Llorente's desire to move on as well. Glory can quickly transform into betrayal.
 

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I don't agree with their policy, but I respect their achievements. To not have ever been relegated while recruiting players from such a small catchment area is absolutely amazing. But the only reason this policy is not detested is because they are the only ones that are doing it. Imagine if all the clubs start following this principle, many talented players would not get a chance to compete for the biggest prizes or the kind of money they can. What happens to the players from Asia, Africa or smaller European nations? Should they, in such a case, never get a chance to showcase their talents on a bigger stage?

I appreciate that they have strong ties with the local community, but shouldn't it be such that they should try to sign Basque players, but not make it a policy only to do so. If there is a choice between two players of similar qualities, one of whom has Basque ties, and the other doesn't, than by all means go and sign the Basque player. But if a better player is available for cheap shouldn't they go for him? It's alright now because only they are doing it, if everyone starts to do that, well, that would hardly be ideal.
 

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Understanding the Premiership more & more with each passing season, I can appreciate how little some fans understand Spanish football - especially the regional nuances. The Alacantara brothers, for example, are Galician. Rafinha is the younger brother of Thiago and the club want to loan him out to a Liga side to season him more next season. The club want him to play for a side playing in CL but the player would rather go to a smaller Galician club. It's in the culture for many of these players, like a religion. To represent your region is associated with glory in many of these autonomous regions of Spain. I think it's great but it can be to it's own detriment too. Bilbao aren't interested in losing their players on the open market like with Javi. Probably why they unfairly condemned Llorente's desire to move on as well. Glory can quickly transform into betrayal.
If he was such a proud Galician, he would move to that club on a permanent basis. Neither Javi or Llorente would ever leave Athletic. It's alright doing it for some time, but after a while, most players would look to move on to places where they can earn more and win stuff. Same with clubs. Do you think Barcelona would have bought Neymar if they were so committed to see the likes of Tello or Deulofeu or whoever the next big thing in shoehorn their place in their side? I respect Barcelona's policy by the way, they try to give the Catalonian players a chance first, but if they are deemed not good enough, they try to recruit from elsewhere, which is how it should ideally be. Athletic's policy is just plain xenophobic, and I don't respect discrimination of such a kind in an organization which is getting funds not only from the region, but from international sponsors as well.
 

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I did not make a comparison to Hitler as a man, I compared Bilbao's policy to one of his policies, that has similar roots. Of course Bilbao are not Nazis!

That said, if Adolf happened to run a football club in addition to all the other fecked up shit he did, I'd imagine they would have a similar recruitment policy to Bilbao anyway.

As for the first part of your post, football to me is still a normal enough job for this argument. Yes, a club can choose who plays for them. But if an agent calls up a club to say, 'oh yea, about that centre-back position you wanted filled, I've got someone', of course the club does not have to sign him, but I'd like to think they can do better than 'we don't sign Italians'.
I'm not sure whether this post is serious or not?
 

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Whatever the justification behind it it is a policy based on prejudice, and all forms of prejudice including so called positive discrimination are wrong. Either everyone is equal or everyone is not, some cannt be more equal than others.
 

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Xenophobic policy. This debate came up when Zenit declared they didn't want black players. The fans said it was cultural as well but because that was racism people jumped on the hate Zenit band-wagon. These are the same. Not employing someone because of something they are incapable of changing. One is xenophobic the others racism. You can't support one and condemn the other.
You either accept that every club has a right to decide who they want to play for their club or no one has that right based on race/nationality etc.
What exactly is wrong with Russian fans wanting only Slavic players because culturally and historically they've only had white players, if it is okay to only want Basque players?
 

Red Hand Devil

Plan M ish
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Aug 15, 2007
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"I said a hip hop, hippie to the hippie..."
I dont think anyone can complain in football about Bilbao's policy of discrimination - sure there's only been Justin Fashanu in England & yer man Robbie Rogers from the States that have felt brave enough to come out & Justin hanged himself & Robbie retired before changin his mind...

Thats a much bigger issue than whats goin on at Bilbao!
 

Bestie07

Full Member
Joined
Jun 17, 2008
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He went by the name of Wayne Rooney
I dont think anyone can complain in football about Bilbao's policy of discrimination - sure there's only been Justin Fashanu in England & yer man Robbie Rogers from the States that have felt brave enough to come out & Justin hanged himself & Robbie retired before changin his mind...

Thats a much bigger issue than whats goin on at Bilbao!
Of course that's a bigger issue, but that is not what this thread is about.