Auction Draft: Round 1 - P-Nut vs. Zlatan7

[Indnyc]

Team P-Nut vs Team Zlatan7

Vs.

Tactics Team P-Nut

Tactics

No real thrills here, simple 4231 with clear defined roles and allowing each player to play at their peak.

Defence

Maicon will be the more attacking full back with Hughes holding his position more often. Pique is an obvious ball playing centre back to aid in taking control of the game from deep, with Varanes pace being used to cover.

Midfield

Kante in his absolute peak destroyer role, putting out fires all over the place. Redondo to run the side and dictate play, starting attacks throughout the game.

Three attacking midfielders capable of interchanging throughout and causing the opposition problems on who to follow and when.

Ronaldinho has no problem drifting central and the opposite is true of Eriksen. Kubala is most likely to join Van Basten up top at times and provide additional firepower.

Attack

Van Basten up top feeding off of everything that is created for him by the excellent attacking midfielders.


Tactics Team Zlatan7

Ive opted for a 4-2-3-1 formation, playing with 2 defensive midfielders to help contain p-nuts attack but also as a solid base for launching my own attacks from.

Not much needs to be said about Rijkaard, the ability to stop the greatest of number tens but then the technical skill and vision to play as playmaker finding my willing runners. My other defendive mid, Sergio Busquets will be there shielding the defence intercepting passes and then picking out the front line with his pin point passing.
Playing against Rijkaard and Busquets is going to be like playing against a brick wall but the ball doesn’t just bounce back, it gets played back, passed you and into danger.

The danger these defensive mids will be feeding is an amazingly fluid front 4. Although Baggio is starting furthest forward in my lineup he is not just going to be stood there leading the line, we know that’s not his game, he’s also a world class playmaker. He’ll be happy drifting to either flank interchanging with the players there or dropping deep finding the runs in behind.
Robben and Rivelino will be either side of him, both happy running with the ball or making runs in behind, speed and lethal shooting power.
Behind these is Socrates, wow, P-nuts defence is going to be pulled ragged, all this interchanging and Socrates pulling the strings, lethal through balls and runs into the box, they’ve certainly got their work cut out.

Providing occasional width to the attack will be my full backs, firstly Zambrotta, known for his attacking ability down the flank, also fast and tenacious, I appreciate he may have to defend against Ronaldinho so may have limited chance to get forward but when he does, will Ronaldinho be tracking him?
The other side, azpilcueta, he’s said himself he likes to defend higher up the pitch, he likes to get forward and will have the freedom to do so. Make no mistake though he’s a willing defender with the speed and tackling to boot.

Finally, my centrebacks and keeper. Firstly Puyol, commanding in the air, committed and not one to shy away, he’s a worthy leader of my back line, he’s my 2nd wall behind Rijkaard and Busquets. With Costacurta alongside him it will make a formidable defensive unit.
the keeper, Pagliuca, one of the best of his generation and World Cup finalist, a trustworthy, sturdy and strong pair of hands in goal.

All the best for the match @P-Nut

 

[Indnyc]

Good Luck @P-Nut @Zlatan 7

 

[P-Nut]

Strangely similiar set ups and I don't really have a bad word to say about @Zlatan 7 side, there are areas he is obviously stronger and areas that my team is obviously stronger.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

cant believe i voted for a team with fecking Pique in it

 

[green_smiley]

cant believe i voted for a team with fecking Puyol in it

 

[Zlatan 7]

cant believe i voted for a team with fecking Pique in it

Nor me!!

cant believe i voted for a team with fecking Puyol in it

Strangely similiar set ups and I don't really have a bad word to say about @Zlatan 7 side, there are areas he is obviously stronger and areas that my team is obviously stronger.

Yep, very similar teams and setups, probably comes down to personnel, I obviously think I’ve got the strongest in most positions

 

[P-Nut]

cant believe i voted for a team with fecking Pique in it

I'm going to be completely honest and admit he was picked with a completely different set up in mind. It's the same reason Neeskens has been left on the bench. Even if I don't get through I'm going to have to do a potential write up on that particular set up.

Pique shouldn't do too bad in the set up here either, there's a reason at his peak we was all gutted to have missed out on keeping him.

 

[P-Nut]

Yep, very similar teams and setups, probably comes down to personnel, I obviously think I’ve got the strongest in most positions

Well yeah I'd be worried if you didn't, personally I think it'll come down to clinical finishing making the small differences. Van Basten has no equal on the pitch in that regard and for that reason I'd expect him to win the game for me.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Christ, you left Neeskens on the bench. Ballsy.

 

[P-Nut]

Christ, you left Neeskens on the bench. Ballsy.

It wasn't a case of expecting to get through, more that if I do get through I can hopefully run with my original idea that I had planned.

 

[Enigma_87]

Neeskens on the bench??

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

A quick point about Zlatan's team.

I personally would have had Azpilicueta against Dinho on the right and Zambrotta on the left.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It wasn't a case of expecting to get through, more that if I do get through I can hopefully run with my original idea that I had planned.

Yes I realized that as soon as I posted.

 

[P-Nut]

A quick point about Zlatan's team.

I personally would have had Azpilicueta against Dinho on the right and Zambrotta on the left.

It's a bit of a strange one to decide on really that.

Azpiliceuta matches up to Kubala better, as Kubala will join MVB at times and Azpi isn't bothered about defending centrally so that is good for Zlatan, however Maicon is my full back with the most attacking license. Rivelino isn't tracking him back so would you prefer Azpi or Zambrotta in a 2v1, probably Zambrotta no matter how highly I rate Azpi.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It's a bit of a strange one to decide on really that.

Azpiliceuta matches up to Kubala better, as Kubala will join MVB at times and Azpi isn't bothered about defending centrally so that is good for Zlatan, however Maicon is my full back with the most attacking license. Rivelino isn't tracking him back so would you prefer Azpi or Zambrotta in a 2v1, probably Zambrotta no matter how highly I rate Azpi.

For me outwide, Ronaldinho is way bigger a threat than Kubala and Maicon combined. Kubala is more likely to run into Costacurta more often from what I have seen.

Regarding the bold part, one would expect Rivellino to do a good tracking back job. Robben is the one I wouldn't expect much help from.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Erikson is underwhelming and Baggio is not a player to lead the line, esp with Rivelino occupying his favorite position.

I'm going with a van Basten magic moment to decide this game.

 

[P-Nut]

Another thing I've just noticed is that whilst Rijkaard is definitely the best DM on the pitch as a combination I'd have Kante and Redondo as that level above Busquets and Rijkaard.

Busquets seems a little redundant whilst both Redondo and Kante will get to play to their strengths.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Busquets seems a little redundant whilst both Redondo and Kante will get to play to their strengths.

Not sure which pair I'd rate better but Dynamics wise Rijkaard/Busquets and Kante/Redondo are very similar. One defensive B2B and one playmaking defensive MF finishing the double pivot.

Sure Busquets is very different a player to Redondo, but is a very good playmaker from deep IMO. Probably something that gets masked with Xavi/Iniesta ahead of him all his glory years.

 

[Indnyc]

Seeing Neeskens benched us a pretty big move by P-Nut

I don’t see either defenses being able to stop the opposition..

Slightly prefer P-nuts attack.. Fancy MVB to have a good game here..

Will wait for more discussions before voting

 

[harms]

Another thing I've just noticed is that whilst Rijkaard is definitely the best DM on the pitch as a combination I'd have Kante and Redondo as that level above Busquets and Rijkaard.

Busquets seems a little redundant whilst both Redondo and Kante will get to play to their strengths.

Busquets is not that far from Redondo as a playmaking DM, especially considering how consistently brilliant he had been over the years, even after Xavi and Iniesta retired. But Rijkaard is easily a few levels above Kante as a defensive box-to-box. We often underuse Rijkaard as a simply defensive midfielder, but he was so influential all over the pitch — both in playmaking and in scoring some crucial goals over the years.

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

How do people rates Busquets long passing to other DLPs?

 

[Moby]

Busquets is not that far from Redondo as a playmaking DM

Obviously disagree. He's a long way off Redondo in terms of his creativity, passing, dribbling and close control while going past players. Excellent player in the role he had alongside Xavi and Iniesta in terms of providing the defensive nous and recycling possession, but I'd completely contradict the point that he's been brilliant after their decline. In fact, I would have expected him to become the mainstay of Barcelona's midfield playing at the heart of it and controlling games like someone like Modric has done for Madrid, given how people always said his talent was overshadowed by Xavi and Iniesta, but he failed to make that step up during all these years since those two declined and hasn't really been able to dominate opposition midfields like you'd expect someone like Redondo to do. Barca have been overrun in the middle a few times especially during the last few years in CL and it's why Messi has to drop deep and control games for them instead of staying closer to goal because they don't have anyone else to do that in the middle. While on the other hand you have Redondo dominating the CL in the latter half of the 90s being the absolute heartbeat of that Madrid midfield, both defensively as well as in terms of controlling the tempo, creating chances, dribbling forward to open up spaces, etc.

 

[Enigma_87]

Obviously disagree. He's a long way off Redondo in terms of his creativity, passing, dribbling and close control while going past players. Excellent player in the role he had alongside Xavi and Iniesta in terms of providing the defensive nous and recycling possession, but I'd completely contradict the point that he's been brilliant after their decline. In fact, I would have expected him to become the mainstay of Barcelona's midfield playing at the heart of it and controlling games like someone like Modric has done for Madrid, given how people always said his talent was overshadowed by Xavi and Iniesta, but he failed to make that step up during all these years since those two declined and hasn't really been able to dominate opposition midfields like you'd expect someone like Redondo to do. Barca have been overrun in the middle a few times especially during the last few years in CL and it's why Messi has to drop deep and control games for them instead of staying closer to goal because they don't have anyone else to do that in the middle. While on the other hand you have Redondo dominating the CL in the latter half of the 90s being the absolute heartbeat of that Madrid midfield, both defensively as well as in terms of controlling the tempo, creating chances, dribbling forward to open up spaces, etc.

Was about to come and post something similar to this, but you already did the job.

 

[Moby]

Was about to come and post something similar to this, but you already did the job.

 

[Fortitude]

Do you want outsiders, such as myself, voting on these?

 

[Physiocrat]

Do you want outsiders, such as myself, voting on these?

Absolutely. The more the merrier. I know we look like a clique now with out own sub-forum but we always welcome new voters and commentators.

 

[Zlatan 7]

Good points argued Re my team and how it’s lined up.
The two teams have lined up very similar even having similar dm’s. You can’t conpare Kanté to Rijkaard for breaking up play and then launching attacks, simary by two centrebacks are clearly a level above, Van Basten will have a lot to do on his own.

To be honest I’m surprised at the score as I feel van Basten would be the only major difference to the teams.

Also re Baggio, I did mention in my initial write up that Baggio wouldn’t be there leading the line and would have a different game to Van Basten.
Baggio would have that licence to drift and jnterchange with Rivelino and Robben

 

[P-Nut]

Busquets is not that far from Redondo as a playmaking DM, especially considering how consistently brilliant he had been over the years, even after Xavi and Iniesta retired. But Rijkaard is easily a few levels above Kante as a defensive box-to-box. We often underuse Rijkaard as a simply defensive midfielder, but he was so influential all over the pitch — both in playmaking and in scoring some crucial goals over the years.

I agree actually in terms of under using Rijkaard, it's the reason I think Busquets is a little redundant as Rijkaard can do his job and more in that position.

 

[Fortitude]

Absolutely. The more the merrier. I know we look like a clique now with out own sub-forum but we always welcome new voters and commentators.

OK, thanks.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Don't understand why Baggio gets a rough deal here. Played him in a similar false 9 role a couple of drafts ago and that didn't really catch the imagination as well.

The more I watch him, the more he looks like a player capable of drifting all over the pitch.

Maybe a 4-2-2-2 with Rivellino and Socrates behind Baggio/Robben would have been a better representation but I do buy into the notion of playing Baggio without a pure number 9. He did do that for a while if I remember correctly albiet not as a proper false 9 of course. Does have all the capabilities though.

 

[harms]

Obviously disagree. He's a long way off Redondo in terms of his creativity, passing, dribbling and close control while going past players.

To be fair I rate Busquets higher than most and probably the other way with Redondo His passing is absolutely sublime, as is his positioning — both in terms of defending and providing a passing option for his teammates.

Redondo is obviously a more talented player and he provides an X-factor that Busquets doesn't, but overall, for me, their body of work is comparable.

 

[harms]

Don't understand why Baggio gets a rough deal here. Played him in a similar false 9 role a couple of drafts ago and that didn't really catch the imagination as well.

Because with a false 9 you'd want 2 wingforwards who cut inside and not just Robben?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Because with a false 9 you'd want 2 wingforwards who cut inside and not just Robben?

Well, that is one way.

The other being the 4222 I mentioned

---------Baggio-----Robben-------
----Rivellino-----------Socrates---

Almost everyone can interchange.
Not exactly a setup built around a typical false 9, but one with no number 9 and lots of interchange as Zlatan's mentioned in his OP

 

[Zlatan 7]

Don't understand why Baggio gets a rough deal here. Played him in a similar false 9 role a couple of drafts ago and that didn't really catch the imagination as well.

The more I watch him, the more he looks like a player capable of drifting all over the pitch.

Maybe a 4-2-2-2 with Rivellino and Socrates behind Baggio/Robben would have been a better representation but I do buy into the notion of playing Baggio without a pure number 9. He did do that for a while if I remember correctly albiet not as a proper false 9 of course. Does have all the capabilities though.

It’s nice to see you e got an idea of what I wanted, thanks.
Although on paper the 2 teams are lined up the same, the front four will have totally different roles.
I’ve gone for undoubtedly fluid front 4. I should imagine Pnut would be keeping Eriksen fairly central and not too far forward and Van Basten living close to the box.
I’d have Baggio dropping into a false 9, Robben world class at making runs and cutting in behind, also Rivelino happy running behind and finding the box, Socrates happy charging last Baggio and Into the box, even drifting filling Robben or Rivelinos spot. Redondo is not just going to have one no.10, there’s basically four of them there.

Edit: also, I did think of a 4222 and used that in a newb draft, I got ripped as my wingbacks would have too much work to do, I didn’t want to make that mistake again with them having to face Ronaldinho

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

Don't understand why Baggio gets a rough deal here. Played him in a similar false 9 role a couple of drafts ago and that didn't really catch the imagination as well.

His peak is with as a SS> I'd have no problems with him as F9, but then I'd not expect a #10 behind him then far less two of them. Rivelino and Baggio are stylistically very similar and prefer operating in Inside Left channels. They are not really a complementary pairing esp with Socrates also hovering there.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Rivelino and Baggio are stylistically very similar and prefer operating in Inside Left channels

One is right footed, one is left. Surely can't be stylistically similar from the left.

Also, while both did impact the left zones a lot, their game zones were all over the pitch.

And the pitch is big enough. I think we tend to ignore that in draft games with the overlapping logic. A lot depends on movement and versatality in such setups.

Take Rivellino. Was an AM whose videos would show he impacted right of the centre as well when played in the hole.

In 70 WC, he helped fill the numbers in midfield while Tostao and Pele occasionally drifted out wide although he started as a left winger.

Rivellino is the last player I would doubt of playing around other number 10's. Socrates to an extent too. He played with Zico didn't he?

 

[Edgar Allan Pillow]

One is right footed, one is left. Surely can't be stylistically similar from the left.

Also, while both did impact the left zones a lot, their game zones were all over the pitch.

And the pitch is big enough. I think we tend to ignore that in draft games with the overlapping logic. A lot depends on movement and versatality in such setups.

Take Rivellino. Was an AM whose videos would show he impacted right of the centre as well when played in the hole.

In 70 WC, he helped fill the numbers in midfield while Tostao and Pele occasionally drifted out wide although he started as a left winger.

Rivellino is the last player I would doubt of playing around other number 10's. Socrates to an extent too. He played with Zico didn't he?

I said 'preferred'. Doesn't mean they are nailed into that area of the pitch. They are top players and will adapt and move all over over, but I'd put both their peaks as #10/left IF. His team is better off with a traditional CF who can play with back to goal and drag defenders.

I don't see Baggio adding anything that is already not available from the rest of his attack.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Tough one to decide this. While I obviously like Zlatan's setup better and more innovative, the difference between the two is not that much to call a winner.

If Pnut had Rivera and Neeskens like he originally planned, this would have been tough to not tilt towards him although I don't rate Pique at all even for R1.

Zlatan's does have a bad luck with opponent draw in Rijkaard more or less not getting utilized to his 170 mn self.

 

[P-Nut]

It’s nice to see you e got an idea of what I wanted, thanks.
Although on paper the 2 teams are lined up the same, the front four will have totally different roles.
I’ve gone for undoubtedly fluid front 4. I should imagine Pnut would be keeping Eriksen fairly central and not too far forward and Van Basten living close to the box.
I’d have Baggio dropping into a false 9, Robben world class at making runs and cutting in behind, also Rivelino happy running behind and finding the box, Socrates happy charging last Baggio and Into the box, even drifting filling Robben or Rivelinos spot. Redondo is not just going to have one no.10, there’s basically four of them there.

Edit: also, I did think of a 4222 and used that in a newb draft, I got ripped as my wingbacks would have too much work to do, I didn’t want to make that mistake again with them having to face Ronaldinho

My front 4 is actually pretty fluid, Eriksen is capable of drifting to either side comfortably as seen when playing for Spurs.

Kubala has no problems pushing up top to get close to Van Basten when required, and we all know Ronaldinho is comfortable in central areas.

The only real difference is that Can Basten is more of a focal point than Baggio

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I said 'preferred'. Doesn't mean they are nailed into that area of the pitch. They are top players and will adapt and move all over over, but I'd put both their peaks as #10/left IF. His team is better off with a traditional CF who can play with back to goal and drag defenders.

I don't see Baggio adding anything that is already not available from the rest of his attack.

Heyy, I don't think we can ever get all the player's peaks from such setups. It's more about evaluating if the sum of things is good enough. I think it's excellent, you probably not so much. Fair enough.