Can you not post when Theon is here?I know we are supposed to sell our teams but some of the things being said are getting out of hand.
Scorers - Cruyff's stats have already been posted but Wilkes goalscoring record is up there with the very best. Then you got contributions from midfield and Haan and Koeman with their long shots, not to mention Koeman's free kick ability. The team has plenty of goals.
Cruyff - apparently Baresi will be man marking and following him around , this isn't his game and will pull his defence all over the place, it's actually at we are setup to do.
Midfield - now I have a lot of time for Blanchflower and Mackay but seriously they are not on the level of Neeskens and Van Hanegem. And I'm certain any neautral would agree with that. There's no way he controls the midfield esp with Hagi who is a liability defensively, not only outnumbered but outclassed .
Cheap shots - our midfielders never won anything,
But I prefer these silly arguments weren't in the draft as it ruins the game and puts unccessary animosity into the game.
Auction-Trade Madness Draft - R1: 2mufc0/Theon vs Moby
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
- Start date
To be fair, the 1974 defensive master class was the reason for them not winning it that year.
Moby does have the defence to pull it off.
Might have been a cheap shot (and a pretty good and funny one at that
), but with a slightly better midfield, I can see Total football being negated here.Not to sound a repetitive cnut, but coincidentally, Valentino Mazzola would have been the perfect guy to face a TF team.
Soft.
I said they never won anything together, which they didn't.To be fair, the 1974 defensive master class was the reason for them not winning it that year.
Moby does have the defence to pull it off.
Might have been a cheap shot (and a pretty good and funny one at that
Not to sound a repetitive cnut, but coincidentally, Valentino Mazzola would have been the perfect guy to face a TF team.
I think this defensive masterclass does get overplayed a lot. There have also been plenty of instances in football history where the attacking team has done the business, Brazil , Barcelona, Real Madrid even our United teams. The defensive wins always seem to get extra praise, which is fair enough, but shouldn't be the standard.To be fair, the 1974 defensive master class was the reason for them not winning it that year.
Moby does have the defence to pull it off.
Might have been a cheap shot (and a pretty good and funny one at that
Not to sound a repetitive cnut, but coincidentally, Valentino Mazzola would have been the perfect guy to face a TF team.
It's also fine margins , Germany's penalty in 1974 was a dive , if that was correctly not given who knows how it would have ended.
Like he said he also has players who failed in the last hurdle in major tourneys too, but it's not a massive deal , like I said it's cheap.
Have a feeling you are considering what the team would be with him there which is fair enough if you consider that better but at the moment one must look at the two teams and make the decision. We've already discussed at why I think Hagi fits this team better despite being a lesser name.
Plus with a back 5 and two CMs in front of them, I am not sure just how many players do I need to contest here? I am not looking to dominate possession here, they can have that, but I have enough bodies between those 7 to provide enough work rate and effort to take the ball away. All of Baresi, Krol and Zanetti can easily step into midfield if needed, I would always have spare men at the back and can afford to do that.
Against that kind of a sea of defenders led by none other than Baresi I wouldn't need another midfield body to contribute highly, instead having a player who can set up devastating counters is precisely what is needed there.
Both arguing points well and both getting angry about the retorts. What a draft match should be.
@2mufc0 @Theon you say a neutral should pull him up about his Cruyff comments but I agree with them. Who’s getting in behind mobys defence?
@2mufc0 @Theon you say a neutral should pull him up about his Cruyff comments but I agree with them. Who’s getting in behind mobys defence?
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I voted quite a few hours ago mate. The Mazzola thought just entered my brain.
Just banter mate.
Well I’d definitely hope no one took these things personally.
I plan on making that newbie quit the caf let alone the drafts after my match v him and @Šjor Bepo
I was replying to him being there would negate that midfield - when I am already quite covered and not looking to get the upper hand in possession in the first place.
Not sure about 2mufc, he seems a bit rattled. lol
I do want to reply to that from TF context, but that would be derailing the thread. I will post after the game.
Anyways, good luck lads. Despite the surprising dirt thrown, some quality argumentation. Will follow more later. Cheers.
Aye Mazolla was on our list , but Gullit fits into the theme, plus his versatility would make him perfect for our system. Some people have pigeon holed his style on here when he was capable of multiple roles. We don't need a target man in this setup, Cruyff, Wilkes , Gullit and our B2Bs are capable of making runs into the box and behind defenders .
Your options for a wing forward next to a false 9 were Ruud Gullit and Valentino Mazzola?
Mind = blown.
Do let me know when Gullit played as a wide forward in a false 9 formation to make it 'perfect'. Or how much of the skillset that made him elite would be relevant to that role.
Hard evidence please.
Gullit isn't playing false 9 , Cruyff is.
Guillit played wide and central throughout his career, are you really trying argue he can't oprate in wide and inside areas like he is here?
Don't know why people are complaining about the heated debates. It makes it much more interesting for a neutral and better than a snoozefest with no one posting.
I'm a massive fan of both sides so I'm struggling to make a decision here.
Both of these R1 games so far have been excelllent
I'm a massive fan of both sides so I'm struggling to make a decision here.
Both of these R1 games so far have been excelllent
It might be controversial, but it wasn't a clear dive. It's also funny how every article that puts the focus on that dive completely fails to mention that Müller scored another brilliant goal that was wrongly called offside (a much more obvious call than the penalty).
There's such a weird and strong narrative surrounding that final in 1974, that tries to put so much meaning into what was a fairly usual run of a game. A shocking start very early, which lead to the team with the advantage taking control but facing a strong defense. The other team slowly taking the game back and in the end, we had two all time great sides facing each other with enough chances on both sides to win it.
I honestly don't think there's much more to it and you can't really draw any meaningful clues regarding tactics or individuals from that game alone, even though it obviously shaped the legacy of all time great players and teams.
Can't disagree with this. But the bolded part is what I was really getting at, you put it better than I could.
Can you read?
I brought up Burgnich yesterday but I have to also say I don't feel Ferri is a good fit here. As we learned last draft, he never adjusted to zonal marking and was always more comfortable in classic Italian man marking, so I don't think he matches well against a total football side.
I think he was drafted in there to cover an injury crisis at the 1986 WC and did quite well. Not a specialist like Schnellinger or Krol of course, but it does indicate what a good all-rounder he was.
Thanks, fair point (about cutting off supply as a tactic). If it got to the front, don't see Koeman/that defence stopping them scoring. KHR looks a good replacement for Greaves buddy, Gilzean.
Really?
So many UK players seem to get underated in drafts. A good player is a good player.
For me what decided it was the tactics. Against a 433 with Cruyff as a f9 I think 3 CBs is one too many and 2 Midfielders is one too few.
Feel like Moby needed a 4312 rather than a 5 at the back to really gain an edge. Sitting deep with 3 CB just seems like an invitation to get out shot 16-4.
Is that what you think the score would be or the votes? (Game still going?)
No that's definantly not what he's talking about here
hes talking about shots in the game.Drafts may be all time, but in match threads it's really old school. A sneaky kick or a sucker punch when ref is not looking
I mean Shots on Goal. I think with the mismatch of 3 centre-mids vs. 2 CMs 2mufc/theon are going to have a big advantage in Shots on Goal
It's not exactly reflecting of this game where
1. Baresi, Zanetti and Krol are all well capable of stepping in midfield as they regularly did. They won't just be sat looking, and as soon as anyone starts bring the ball forward they can easily close them down in the luxury of having men to cover.
2. The opposition not having a striker to occupy me defenders further expands on the above as they really don't have to worry about anyone getting the behind the defense.
3. Having Baresi marshall a counter attacking defense where the contribution of midfield is anyone on the backfoot. Is there a doubt that this backline cannot soak pressure especially against a team that is simply pulling all bodies in midfield and don't have huge threats near the goal?
The versatility of my back 5 along with it's quality allow me to successfully get behind and hold the fort. Like I said, I simply don't see their team scoring in this game, they lack the tools up front, the front three is unbalanced and there are major shades of Spain 2010 who also packed their team with midfielders and ended up missing bigger goal threats. Needed Villa in the early stages and then a corner from Puyol to win the semi.
However having the ball in the middle while facing that kind of a tremendous defense will never result in clear cut chances. Sure, if they had a striker or a goalscorer like Ronaldo who could penetrate that kind of a defense then yes, but I don't see anyone there injecting that kind of direct penetration to unsettle my defense. They're actually dropping deeper, as per their manager's instructions which is bizarre.
Not just that, but when we counter we will be attacking in far more space and far lesser quality defenders while have two absolute quality clinical goalscorers on the loose. There are many direct paths of goals for us and neither of those two players would need many chances to score.
It's clear on which team has the easier route to goal.
Nah I asked for evidence of him playing LEFT WINGFORWARD next to a FALSE 9. Hth.
Let's clear up this goalscorer nonsense
Career totals:
Cruyff: 330
Wilkes: 259
Gullit : 122
Total : 711 goals
This is noway comparable to Spain's team who's midfielders or attackers didn't have any of these types of players in terms of goal scoring threat , maybe only Villa.
And like I mentioned before we have various other goalscoring threats from midfield and also this guy:
And rediculously top scorer in the 93/94 champions league:
Career totals:
Cruyff: 330
Wilkes: 259
Gullit : 122
Total : 711 goals
This is noway comparable to Spain's team who's midfielders or attackers didn't have any of these types of players in terms of goal scoring threat , maybe only Villa.
And like I mentioned before we have various other goalscoring threats from midfield and also this guy:
And rediculously top scorer in the 93/94 champions league:
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Why does it matter? He will be operating in areas he's played in all his career. He's not a Giggs or Figo where he has to play in one fixed position on one side of the pitch . Drafts always have players in different positions , if they are capable why not? Also going by your logic when did your central midfielders ever play in a 3-5-2? Or even Greaves for that matter. You're just looking for arguments that aren't really there.
Greaves has over half that.
As expected, clueless about the task in hand.
He has never played in that role in his career, the question was fecking rhetoric. I really shouldn't have to educate you on what kind of skillset is required for a wing forward playing next to a false 9, I highlighted that as it's a damn specific role, not just 'operating in those areas' an argument weaker than a wet tissue.
Even operating in wide channels - while obviously providing completely different skills than required here - it was usually the right and not the left.
You have put him in a role that requires a completely different kind of player, someone whose USP is playing off the ball and clinical finishing, not a fecking midfield workhorse who was renowned for his skill on the ball and carrying the ball from midfield.
In short: You have absolutely wasted Gullit here.
More importantly: You won't be getting the same player who was rated as one of the best in the world.
It is at a considerable distance from being a tactical fit or 'perfect' lmao. Try watching his games sometimes, absolutely love the man and hate seeing him so out of place here.
You’ve got some balls saying that when you’ve done nothing but play down the ability of Cruyff, Gullit, Neeskens and co to move between attack, midfield and defence (despite them seemlessly doing that throughout their career).Even feckin Johan Cruyff is apparently at a loss on how to play the false #9 role. It’s nonsense. Makes the other thread look tame.
Quote me saying that or leave the thread for those who can read.
There you are insulting again. Class.
You’ve consistently said throughout the thread that there’s no presence up top, we’re playing with six midfielders and that there’s no goalthreat.
Cruyff knows how to play the false #9 role - it’s what he played throughout his career and it does still make him a goal threat (as demonstrated by his superior goalscorings stats to Rummenigge for example, posted earlier in the thread).