What is considered as Bale's peak here?
Auction-Trade Madness Draft - R1: Arbitrium vs Sjor/TRoss
- Thread starter Edgar Allan Pillow
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
i always say the vote difference is meaningless, you can have a close game "on the pitch" and lose comfortably and have a comfortable game on the pitch and lose/win by a tight margin.
Like both the write ups, both sides have players/combos I like and nice to see you having your own jousting (handbags) chat.
Look forward to more comments .... only thing I'd say currently is about "Robson and Souness is a hell of a midfield pairing, but physically they come off second best".
Putting aside my (slight) bias to Robson, I'd rather fight the monster from Alien than take on Souness physically.
Look forward to more comments .... only thing I'd say currently is about "Robson and Souness is a hell of a midfield pairing, but physically they come off second best".
Putting aside my (slight) bias to Robson, I'd rather fight the monster from Alien than take on Souness physically.
I have a few doubts regarding Bonucci. He was fantastic in a back three with Barzagli and Chiellini, but he is exposed while playing in back 4 at Milan.
Sjor's team looks like a vintage Ferguson side, despite the ridiculous amount of dippers in it
Sjor's team looks like a vintage Ferguson side, despite the ridiculous amount of dippers in it
My comment is more aligned with the fact that Sammer steps up to effectively make it 3vs2. Toure protects the ball extremely well, so Souness might just keep fouling him (I’m assuming all time drafts have referees). In which case, who are you backing to win the ball in the air from corners/free kicks? My team that’s almost entirely made up of 6ft+ players, or the other side? These kind of things swing games, and given the at times numerical advantage I’ll have in midfield (what with Park following Facchetti around) multiple kicks is a reasonable outcome for me.
Too many scousers 
This is what I’ve said, and it’s undeniable.
Note the bottom of my OPToo many scousers
His Peak at spurs, yes a lot of that came from his role as a support striker but none of that negates his ability to perform the role asked of him here.
The whole Milan team is a mess and its unfair to Bonucci to take that against him, i mean the club is full of dross, going from the manager through the whole team. He played a lot in a back 4 for Juventus and the difference in performances was very small, if there even was the difference.
im sorry but the evidence say otherwise....
maybe @Invictus can help resolve this issue, he follows Serie A more then most of us....
Ahuh and if you hadn't put "particularly when Sammer.....", wouldn't even have mentioned it. I can see Sammer stepping up to help when oppo attacks (maybe not so when other way around).
Note point about height/free-kicks (sure your team will have more to them than that). Guarantee you that IF I vote, it won't simply be because one team has Robson.... he was a Marvel, not (quite) invincible.
Didn't know that you were the guy behind those VAR linesSince will undoutedbly have a fair amount of the ball on my left side, this paints a reasonably good picture of what happens when bale heads for the by-line (based on sjors set-up and comments in the thread)
Petit, Toure and Moreno all have a case for being left alone here, and can easily work triangles between them should the ball make it back to them from Bale. it's very simple positional dominance from my side, with more than enough coverage to deal with 3 left upfield by Sjor.
TEAM HEIGHTS
ARBITRIUM
Sammer- 5'11
Kohler- 6'1
Maldini- 6'0
Facchetti 6'3
Janes- 5'10
Petit- 6'1
Toure- 6'3
Bale- 6'0
Moreno- 5'7
Kane- 6'2
SJOR/TROSS
Bonucci- 6'3
Godin- 6'1
Bergmark- 5'11
Luis- 6'0
Rosbon- 5'11
Souness- 5'11
Park- 5'8
Best- 5'9
Dalglish 5'8
Rush 5'11
In a game that could be as tight as this, things like this play their part.
ARBITRIUM
Sammer- 5'11
Kohler- 6'1
Maldini- 6'0
Facchetti 6'3
Janes- 5'10
Petit- 6'1
Toure- 6'3
Bale- 6'0
Moreno- 5'7
Kane- 6'2
SJOR/TROSS
Bonucci- 6'3
Godin- 6'1
Bergmark- 5'11
Luis- 6'0
Rosbon- 5'11
Souness- 5'11
Park- 5'8
Best- 5'9
Dalglish 5'8
Rush 5'11
In a game that could be as tight as this, things like this play their part.
Being 6ft means feck all tbh, what matters is how good you are in defending/attacking set-pieces.
Would you concede that Peak Yaya Toure can protect a football fairly well (see about 1:05 for a great example of this, from a game highlighting his abilities as an all round midfielder)
Souness and Robson are going to get fairly frustrated in this game particularly with how outnumbered they can quickly become. Doesn't really seem beyond the realms of possibility that well see something like this (any excuse to post this)
in Which case, i'll have a lot of dead ball situations. I literally have a man on my team called " The world champion of precision" in Paul Janes (who's 7 goals for Germany came from set pieces). So having a height advantage (and pretty much all of my players know how to use their height/can all jump and head the ball well) counts for a lot, with consistent service.
this is probably a better attempt than that.
Hard to call this one.
Arbitrium has a more solid defense but Kane is very underwhelming in an all-time context. IMO he needs to prove himself in an international tournament or more in the CL before he is worthy of an all-time selection.
Feel like it comes down a bit to Best and Moreno to make something happen for their sides.
Arbitrium has a more solid defense but Kane is very underwhelming in an all-time context. IMO he needs to prove himself in an international tournament or more in the CL before he is worthy of an all-time selection.
Feel like it comes down a bit to Best and Moreno to make something happen for their sides.
Yeah I think thats fair and When you look at the tactical likelihoods in this game, I believe the conditions created favour Moreno over Best.* Bale's constant pace and stamina and Kane's positional sense will demand enough respect over on the left side of the field, so much so that all of Park, Bergmark, Souness and bonucci will be frequently occupied. Moreno Has more than enough ability to exploit that, and thats without mentioning Toure doing more than enough to cause some havoc in those pockets.
Contrast this to The presence of a defensive Janes, Petit, a slightly advanced Sammer and Behind them Senior Maldini and Kohler, it's just harder to see the pitch opening up in a way that enables Best to be at his err...... Goodest.
*Best is quite clearly the FAR superior player.
A game that could go either way.
Feel the two teams have couple of players that can prove to be a weak links and alleys for a goal. In terms of players I don't really rate Kane all that high in all time sense but the same goes for Bonucci - which equals it up.
Kane isn't even the best forward in the EPL at any point of his career - I'd still take Kun over him, let alone in all time sense.
On the other hand I'm not really fond of Bonucci either and with Moreno in that right hand channel I can see Arbitrium exploiting that channel pretty well.
Sjor/Tross win the midfield battle for me with that combo and Best with Felipe Luis is their best route to goal. However they come against Facchetti - one of the best left backs in the game and aided by Bale who has the work rate the contribute on that flank in the defensive phase and also Cesare Maldini covering as well.
Rush/Dalglish - being the ultimate scousers aside is a a good proven combo, but comes against Sammer/Kohler defensive line and that is as good as it gets to containing them. Both at their peak I can see nullifying them.
As things stand going with tight Arbitrium win here with a one goal difference and perhaps Moreno man of the match for him...
Feel the two teams have couple of players that can prove to be a weak links and alleys for a goal. In terms of players I don't really rate Kane all that high in all time sense but the same goes for Bonucci - which equals it up.
Kane isn't even the best forward in the EPL at any point of his career - I'd still take Kun over him, let alone in all time sense.
On the other hand I'm not really fond of Bonucci either and with Moreno in that right hand channel I can see Arbitrium exploiting that channel pretty well.
Sjor/Tross win the midfield battle for me with that combo and Best with Felipe Luis is their best route to goal. However they come against Facchetti - one of the best left backs in the game and aided by Bale who has the work rate the contribute on that flank in the defensive phase and also Cesare Maldini covering as well.
Rush/Dalglish - being the ultimate scousers aside is a a good proven combo, but comes against Sammer/Kohler defensive line and that is as good as it gets to containing them. Both at their peak I can see nullifying them.
As things stand going with tight Arbitrium win here with a one goal difference and perhaps Moreno man of the match for him...
You need to decide on what things you want to debate and not jump from one thing to another....i was speaking about defending set-pieces and high balls not protecting the ball with your body when under pressure. Facchetti and Yaya are 6,3 and yet Kohler and Godin shit all over them when it comes to defending set-pieces.
I dont see how they will get outnumbered, if you are adding Sammer to the midfield battle i can do the same for Dalglish, if you count Moreno we can count Filipe Luis as he has nobody else to mark so defending wise he can go inside as much as he wants. You wont have a numerical advantage, specially considering work rates of certain players.
Harry Kane
If we are going to discount him because he hasn't "proved himself" yet, then why don't we exclude currently active players? You apply the theory of Occam's Razor in instances like his, and extrapolate the rest of his career based on that. When your Premier league stats read like this:
Appearances 143
Goals 102
you deserved to be considered for the purposes of this draft as what you will likely one day become, and thats a Premier league legend. All signs point to him breaking records at club and international level (his 12 goals in 23 games has a better gpg average than all time record holder rooney).
Thats the beauty with these drafts, you have to use your imagination and apply all the variables. Harry Kane is currently one of the hottest properties in world football, and against two active centre backs (One who is in a completely uncomplimentary system) he IS going to have a good game here. It's one of the reason's I was happy to go up against Sjor, because of those two still actually playing. Their pound for pound respective positional levels are good, but Kane's current one is on par with those.
If we are going to discount him because he hasn't "proved himself" yet, then why don't we exclude currently active players? You apply the theory of Occam's Razor in instances like his, and extrapolate the rest of his career based on that. When your Premier league stats read like this:
Appearances 143
Goals 102
you deserved to be considered for the purposes of this draft as what you will likely one day become, and thats a Premier league legend. All signs point to him breaking records at club and international level (his 12 goals in 23 games has a better gpg average than all time record holder rooney).
Thats the beauty with these drafts, you have to use your imagination and apply all the variables. Harry Kane is currently one of the hottest properties in world football, and against two active centre backs (One who is in a completely uncomplimentary system) he IS going to have a good game here. It's one of the reason's I was happy to go up against Sjor, because of those two still actually playing. Their pound for pound respective positional levels are good, but Kane's current one is on par with those.
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Bonucci should be fine in this setup, IMO. Bergmark and Luís were/are defensively astute fullbacks, so it's not like the wider areas are going to be overly exposed in this back 4 on a very consistent basis (for reference, he frequently played with Lichtsteiner at RB + Chiellini at LCB + LB). Bonucci's biggest issue(s) are that he can struggle against pacy center forwards that attack through his blindside (could see Aubameyang troubling him in this setup - qualitative consideration aside), against players that physically batter him, and despite playing like a sweeper - he's not the most proactive in defense or a natural leader like some former Azzurri defenders (which is why he sometimes looked lost for Milan in the early parts of the season) - but Godín should resolve the issue. Got zero issues with him here considering what he's up against, largely in terms of physical profile.
wow, just wow.....RCB- Bonucci
RM- Ji Sung Park
So the player whos role in that 4-4-2 was to offer width, is now coming inside? Your entire system relies on Best to have a worldie, whereas my tactical approach moves so many pieces in my favour and exploits them.
and the point about defending the ball under pressure is to highlight the likelihood of free-kicks, leading your side to defending more set pieces where i would clearly have the upper hand.
We will defend like most 442 teams do, mark the zones rather them a man but seeing your lineup he will mostly be against Filipe Luis considering you dont have a right winger nor will your rightback go up much and if he does its game over for you.
I always try to exclude still active players (bar few like Iniesta or Messi who already reserved their place in the all-time pantheon), as I know that I can't be objective (or even try to be). I know that I underrate Kane, for example, because in my mind I still haven't decided on how I rate him, and I know that after a year or two my opinion can change drastically
you realize movement in possession and movement out of possession are two separate things? Moreno operates in the inside right chanel so he will go to the pocket between Godin and Luis in the final third, pocket they closed against better players and much better teams.
Not necessarily.
In this instance, a counter attack could leave
Rush Dalglish Best
Versus
Sammer Petit Kohler Maldini
and thats assuming Paul Janes doesn't just collapse to the ground for whatever they call a siesta in germany because when he has the ball he literally has NOONE close to him.
Moreno is in the right channel against Godin - Filipe Luis.
Filipe Luis and Best are against Janes and Moreno not Facchetti and Bale.
sure, thats fine if he's up against Kohler and Sammer but its Godin and Bonucci. Godin made his name as a defender in La liga, sure he was good in europe but how often did he come up against a complete centre forward like Kane (Tall, strong, excellent hold up play, great in the air, great first time shot). it's a different animal and whilst I would expect Godin to do well, I don't think he keeps him out. Sjor has committed an awful lot of his side to stopping Facchetti and Bale, there's just so much space for Moreno and even Toure in this game and it leaves kane one-on-one fairly often. He's getting shots away, and he's scoring in this game 100%.
Filipe Luis the man with 5 goals and 12 assists in the past 5 years? Im not really concerned about his attacking output, more his reaction when Best looks at him and says "Leave it to me mate".
thats bs, only thing i sacrificed is an attacking winger in Barnes for a tactically astute workhorse in Park. The game for my midfielders doesnt change a bit because of you have Facchetti and Bale and if anyone will dominate the central park in this game its Souness and Robbo, no question about that.
damn, was looking at he horizontal graph...
Mirrored it looks like better for your side as Best is your best player and you have build the side around him. Best/Filipe Luis is big advantage for you but the same goes for Bale/Facchetti against Park and Bergmark. On the flip side he'll be cutting in against Kohler, so he'll provide excellent cover at RCB..
Not sure what to make of Janes. I've read about him, but with little to no evidence I'm not sure how I can assess his level, especially in all time sense.
So you can contribute only with goals and assists?
I have to disagree with the bold. We can't just assume how Kane (or anyone) will perform at some level in the future. A lot of players looked like they would be consistent Ballon winners/top 3 for years to come but it didn't work out that way (Ronaldinho, Kaka, etc). Until Kane actually performs at an international tournament and/or consistent CL knockout performances he simply doesn't have the body of work to rate All-Time for me.
Godin and Bonucci have enough of their careers that we can judge them on what they did not what they might do. Kane is too much unrealized potential for me in all-time sense at this point and he comes against the weakest crop of PL defender generations in my lifetime. Anyway I won't post more as I personally hate Kane very much as a player so probably shouldn't continue.
Same here. The only modern player I'm likely to pick in all time sense(who is not on his way to 30) is Neymar.. I too feel I'm underrating Kane, but it's hard to assess his level at the top even today. I rate Godin very high - probably the only modern day defender still playing who I won't hesitate picking in all time sense.