Aurelien Tchouameni

Bojan Djordjic

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Why would you think Ten Haag would rate VDB good enough for the new level he is managing at.

Also where in Ten Haag's football system does VDB and Bruno play in the same midfield? Just a general question. Obviously I believe VDB and Bruno cannot play together in a midfield 3 or that VDB is good enough for a top class Premier League pivot.
ETH's game is based on quick and intelligent off-the ball movement and smart runs (TIFO have done two good videos on this recently for reference) and VdB is one of the smartest players around when it comes to movement. When you look at our other attackers, Rashford, Bruno and Ronaldo, they are always getting in each others way in that left zone outside the box. VdB actually makes space for others and can work in very tight areas. His major problem in my eyes is that he's misunderstood as a player. He's simply not a pivot. Bruno has been our most impactful player since he's arrived but he can be brain dead at times when you just need to control the game and he's launching .0000000001xG shots from outside the box or even executing simple passes poorly when we just need circulation or spacing. I think as the team improves, the reliance on Bruno should naturally reduce. A bit like how Grealish is perceived to be struggling since his move to City. It's probably not that he's worse, it's just that there are better options all around the pitch.
 

Mainoldo

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ETH's game is based on quick and intelligent off-the ball movement and smart runs (TIFO have done two good videos on this recently for reference) and VdB is one of the smartest players around when it comes to movement. When you look at our other attackers, Rashford, Bruno and Ronaldo, they are always getting in each others way in that left zone outside the box. VdB actually makes space for others and can work in very tight areas. His major problem in my eyes is that he's misunderstood as a player. He's simply not a pivot. Bruno has been our most impactful player since he's arrived but he can be brain dead at times when you just need to control the game and he's launching .0000000001xG shots from outside the box or even executing simple passes poorly when we just need circulation or spacing. I think as the team improves, the reliance on Bruno should naturally reduce. A bit like how Grealish is perceived to be struggling since his move to City. It's probably not that he's worse, it's just that there are better options all around the pitch.
He’s not a pivot and that was my main point and why I overlooked him. Plus you have to take form into account. Sometimes a guy with low confidence is hard to pick up and risky if you are coming into a job as a new manager.
 

AussieDevil

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Seems a good talent, expecting his fee to be around the 60m mark which seems a little steep but he will have hype going into the transfer window.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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How were we not ready to pull the trigger on 1 January for a midfielder? How much evidence is required that McFred isn't the answer or even if you think it is that we have adequate back up to them? Speaks such volumes about how the club is run that such a crucial role has been left go unaddressed for so long.
 

croadyman

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How were we not ready to pull the trigger on 1 January for a midfielder? How much evidence is required that McFred isn't the answer or even if you think it is that we have adequate back up to them? Speaks such volumes about how the club is run that such a crucial role has been left go unaddressed for so long.
Probably because we are still uncertain about whether to buy or not
 

Litch

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Its funny, players come here as world beaters and soon turn to shite, how long before we would be talking about him similarly....
 

Ali Dia

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Its funny, players come here as world beaters and soon turn to shite, how long before we would be talking about him similarly....
who is the last 21/22 year old we signed to go straight into the first team? Pogba? Dalot? I could be wrong but It’s not a profile we usually go for? I think with how competitive the PL game is going and from a scouting standpoint players of this age are as close to formed as they can be without us sitting back and trying to buy them off another big club for 100 plus million as superstars and taking an even bigger risk. 60 million is huge but I think going for the top players in that age bracket is the way to go
 

reddevilz007

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Its funny, players come here as world beaters and soon turn to shite, how long before we would be talking about him similarly....
how bout we start buying shite players, i mean there’s only one way up from there :)
 

Ogaranya

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How were we not ready to pull the trigger on 1 January for a midfielder? How much evidence is required that McFred isn't the answer or even if you think it is that we have adequate back up to them? Speaks such volumes about how the club is run that such a crucial role has been left go unaddressed for so long.
It is depressing.
 

BlueHaze

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Can they just sign this lad already please for christ sakes?

Just offer Monaco £40m and see what happens.
 

BlueHaze

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We don't though, do we ?
We honestly do. Pretty much every signing for the past 6 years have been complete and utter failures bar Bruno and possibly Sancho. Just thinking of some recent ones, Depay, Schneiderlin, Di Maria, Fred AWB, Martial, Maguire, Donny and so on. How much money spent on players who have practically had no impact at all. Leicester taking the absolute piss out of us getting £80m for a disastrous CB.
 

Bondi77

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We should go for Joris Chotard as he is only 20 and his current value is 9million Euros.
Why aren’t we scouting him if we want a ball winner in our team and are not going to get rinsed in the transfer market!
 

reddevilz007

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We should go for Joris Chotard as he is only 20 and his current value is 9million Euros.
Why aren’t we scouting him if we want a ball winner in our team and are not going to get rinsed in the transfer market!
If his name is not Declan Rice, then they’re not good enough for us. It seems like its the general consensus on these posts. If the player is not worth spending 60 millions+ or doesnt already belong to a top European club, they should all belong to Everton or Newcastle.
We would rather have McFred and Matic.
 

Bondi77

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If his name is not Declan Rice, then they’re not good enough for us. It seems like its the general consensus on these posts. If the player is not worth spending 60 millions+ or doesnt already belong to a top European club, they should all belong to Everton or Newcastle.
We would rather have McFred and Matic.
Makes no sense does it?
How much did Kante cost and there was no Romano or ESPN peddling his attributes until Leicester took the risk and look at the return the reward!
 

kouroux

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We should go for Joris Chotard as he is only 20 and his current value is 9million Euros.
Why aren’t we scouting him if we want a ball winner in our team and are not going to get rinsed in the transfer market!
You can be sure his value would suddenly increase if we are interested in such a player
 

Bondi77

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You can be sure his value would suddenly increase if we are interested in such a player
I know,
We have to pay 70-80mil for a player whose true value is probably half that amount and get them on a 5yr contract and half of the time they don’t perform to their true level and we are stuck with a lemon.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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We should go for Joris Chotard as he is only 20 and his current value is 9million Euros.
Why aren’t we scouting him if we want a ball winner in our team and are not going to get rinsed in the transfer market!
Are you familiar with him or just going by the statman dave viz? I'm not familiar with him but I just checked his fbref and he looks genuinely atrocious. He isn't higher than the 34th percentile for anything other than interceptions (96th) and clearances (74th). No point in having someone hoovering up stray balls if they can't pass it forward or even tackle (26th percentile).
 

Bondi77

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Are you familiar with him or just going by the statman dave viz? I'm not familiar with him but I just checked his fbref and he looks genuinely atrocious. He isn't higher than the 34th percentile for anything other than interceptions (96th) and clearances (74th). No point in having someone hoovering up stray balls if they can't pass it forward or even tackle (26th percentile).
I am not familiar with him at all apart from him making that list and that is the same with the main topic of the thread.
What I am trying to highlight is the hype and price tag that this guy seems to have now he is being linked with us and making the top tackling list is one of the things being used to justify it.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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I am not familiar with him at all apart from him making that list and that is the same with the main topic of the thread.
What I am trying to highlight is the hype and price tag that this guy seems to have now he is being linked with us and making the top tackling list is one of the things being used to justify it.
Nah, Tchouameni is a statistical leader for his age group in multiple areas and in addition to being one of the best in the top five leagues in tackling and interceptions, he's also a very competent carrier and passer of the ball. He's obviously young too so plenty of scope for improvement. Chotard may be a good player but he just hasn't shown anything comparable to Tchouameni so far.
 

Bondi77

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Nah, Tchouameni is a statistical leader for his age group in multiple areas and in addition to being one of the best in the top five leagues in tackling and interceptions, he's also a very competent carrier and passer of the ball. He's obviously young too so plenty of scope for improvement. Chotard may be a good player but he just hasn't shown anything comparable to Tchouameni so far.
That maybe the case but I think the point you make about the top five leagues is that he is good at doing it in the league he is playing in in the same way Sancho and Havertz had off the charts stats in the leagues they were playing in but in reality what does that count for in the Premier League......absolutely nothing!
I am all for getting players with potential but 50-60million for a DM that has good stats in France?
 

Bojan Djordjic

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That maybe the case but I think the point you make about the top five leagues is that he is good at doing it in the league he is playing in in the same way Sancho and Havertz had off the charts stats in the leagues they were playing in but in reality what does that count for in the Premier League......absolutely nothing!
I am all for getting players with potential but 50-60million for a DM that has good stats in France?
Those two lads will be just fine once they adjust. Sancho is in a dysfunctional attack and Havertz had a bad Covid case by all reports. It's not as if we haven't also signed tried and tested premiership players in the past only for them to underwhelm at United.

Might be worth remembering that N'golo Kanté, arguably the best defensive midfielder of the last decade also came from French football and not even Ligue 1. Ligue 1 is a tough physical league and Tchouameni has excelled so far.
 

Bondi77

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Those two lads will be just fine once they adjust. Sancho is in a dysfunctional attack and Havertz had a bad Covid case by all reports. It's not as if we haven't also signed tried and tested premiership players in the past only for them to underwhelm at United.

Might be worth remembering that N'golo Kanté, arguably the best defensive midfielder of the last decade also came from French football and not even Ligue 1. Ligue 1 is a tough physical league and Tchouameni has excelled so far.
I like your optimism regarding Sancho and Havertz and I think they will find a steady performance level in the Premier League but it will not be a level that comes anywhere near what they achieved in Germany.

Regarding Kante, he cost less than £6million.
 

AussieDevil

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Ive mentioned Caquaret a few times and I still think he is the one to watch. He plays like Veratti, not as combative as Tchouameni but is still very tenacious in tackles, but he is always two steps ahead of the opposition and that allows him to be in the right place for interceptions. Its what we're missing.

Ricci looks a good player too.
 

MrSingh2002

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All we have to do is put the money on the table.

We're not one of the most attractive clubs in the world right now for a young player but I'd like us to buy our way out of that and sign Tchouameni to replace Fred and Matic.

Then sign him a partner.
 

Bebestation

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Ive mentioned Caquaret a few times and I still think he is the one to watch. He plays like Veratti, not as combative as Tchouameni but is still very tenacious in tackles, but he is always two steps ahead of the opposition and that allows him to be in the right place for interceptions. Its what we're missing.

Ricci looks a good player too.
Caquaret is who I want as well.

I just feel like there is always a Tchouameni type player available - a player that chases after the ball whether it's in front or behind them and has a fantastic tackle to make up for it.

Caqueret has the potential to be a player that can be very hard to find in the future if we skip out on him and turns in to the type of player we think he could be.

He has good press resistance and ability to be creative from deeper positions which we have not had since Carrick.
 

MrSingh2002

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Caquaret is who I want as well.

I just feel like there is always a Tchouameni type player available - a player that chases after the ball whether it's in front or behind them and has a fantastic tackle to make up for it.

Caqueret has the potential to be a player that can be very hard to find in the future if we skip out on him and turns in to the type of player we think he could be.

He has good press resistance and ability to be creative from deeper positions which we have not had since Carrick.

I much prefer Tchouameni to Caqueret. Caqueret reminds me of Cabaye of Newcastle. Decent but I don't know if he has what it takes to have success in a physical league like the Premier League.

You don't have that concern with Tchouameni and his stats are standout defensively. The fact he's in the French team and doing well are a clear sign the big move is coming for him.

Hoping it's to United.
 

Adnan

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Ive mentioned Caquaret a few times and I still think he is the one to watch. He plays like Veratti, not as combative as Tchouameni but is still very tenacious in tackles, but he is always two steps ahead of the opposition and that allows him to be in the right place for interceptions. Its what we're missing.

Ricci looks a good player too.
I'd say we're missing both profiles if we're to continue with a midfield two. Caqueret is someone who I would say is best utilised as the secondary #6, next to a defensively strong player like Tchouameni, who would provide a foundation for players like Caqueret to progress play. While Tchouameni potentially dominates zones in defensive transition by winning aerial balls, defending space in a high block against the quickest of attackers, as well as providing support in possession. These attributes aren't valued by many fans but it's necessary to have such players which creates a defensive balance/platform in defensive transitions for the team's ball players.

We have a number of players coming through the ranks with a similar profile to Caqueret, but there's not many with the profile of Tchouameni, as far as the qualities he brings in a low/mid, and high blocks, which could potentially allow us to utilise a 3 man midfield with two #8s. A midfield 3 of Tchouameni, Caqueret and Hannibal could potentially work.
 

BenitoSTARR

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I'd say we're missing both profiles if we're to continue with a midfield two. Caqueret is someone who I would say is best utilised as the secondary #6, next to a defensively strong player like Tchouameni, who would provide a foundation for players like Caqueret to progress play. While Tchouameni potentially dominates zones in defensive transition by winning aerial balls, defending space in a high block against the quickest of attackers, as well as providing support in possession. These attributes aren't valued by many fans but it's necessary to have such players which creates a defensive balance/platform in defensive transitions for the team's ball players.

We have a number of players coming through the ranks with a similar profile to Caqueret, but there's not many with the profile of Tchouameni, as far as the qualities he brings in a low/mid, and high blocks, which could potentially allow us to utilise a 3 man midfield with two #8s. A midfield 3 of Tchouameni, Caqueret and Hannibal could potentially work.
I don’t think I’ve ever agreed more with anything you’ve said. Really good post.