James Beattie.
Average players who went through a world-class patch, then returned back to being average
- Thread starter Irrational.
- Start date
Kagawa and Sahin maybe?
Might be above average compared to some of these other guys but Mkhitaryan certainly didn't manage to keep up his fantastic statistics for very long.
Aren't both of these shouts a bit unfair?
Playing at a world class level for 3-5 years isn't anything to be scoffed at. I thought the thread was for players who were world class for a few months or at beast a year to 18 months.
By this definition 90% of top class footballers apply because not many players play at an extremely high level for more than 5 years.
agreed. Torres was never average at the start of his career, he was captaining Athletic Madrid at aged 19. Yes he dropped off, but he had the same sort of trajectory as Rooney and doesn’t deserve to be in this thread.
Danny Drinkwater average when they nearly went down with Pearson. Won the league with Ranieri, sold to Chelsea. Lashes out in under god knows what match against a young Spurs lad
probably unfair yes, and certainly if that were the criteria. Petit and Mendieta probably struck me so much because of their sudden rise more than their fall, but also how they were such different players in their prime. It’s was as if, in addition to being solid players with some strength, they suddenly could do all the things they couldn’t normally do, and to a world class level. Petit went from being a grafter full back with some attacking skills to being a grafter-visionary midfield maestro.
Great players need to play at the right league, right team, right time and right coach.
Mkhitaryan and Ali under Mourinho were the disaster. I didn't think Mourinho is good to bring out the players best, he just need the players who suit to his playing style.
Klopp in the other hands, make the average players looks like superstar, Coutinho and E. Can couldn't find their form again when away from him. 140 million for Coutinho is a really crazy money.
Mkhitaryan and Ali under Mourinho were the disaster. I didn't think Mourinho is good to bring out the players best, he just need the players who suit to his playing style.
Klopp in the other hands, make the average players looks like superstar, Coutinho and E. Can couldn't find their form again when away from him. 140 million for Coutinho is a really crazy money.
Salah is the obvious shout. Rumours they're trying to offload him. Good luck with that.
I guess the obvious shout would be sell Salah for 50-60 and buy sancho
when did he become average?
Not sure if he's been mentioned yet.
Luca Toni - always a pretty decent goalscorer. Top scorer in Italy at 37/38 with Verona.
But he only scored 30+ in a season 3 times in his career. At Bayern he scored 39 in 46 in 2007-2008 never hit those heights before or since.
Luca Toni - always a pretty decent goalscorer. Top scorer in Italy at 37/38 with Verona.
But he only scored 30+ in a season 3 times in his career. At Bayern he scored 39 in 46 in 2007-2008 never hit those heights before or since.
Micky Hazard - once hyped as the new Glen Hoddle.
Charlie Nicholas - hyped as a great. came down to England and was bang average.
Lee Sharpe - from England regular to being a nobody in next to no time.
Justin Fashanu - goal of the season for Norwich, followed by Cloughie signing him for big money to go to Forest.
Sadly, it went downhill from there, and little did any us know that he was a tormented soul off the field, due to him having to hide his sexuality.
Charlie Nicholas - hyped as a great. came down to England and was bang average.
Lee Sharpe - from England regular to being a nobody in next to no time.
Justin Fashanu - goal of the season for Norwich, followed by Cloughie signing him for big money to go to Forest.
Sadly, it went downhill from there, and little did any us know that he was a tormented soul off the field, due to him having to hide his sexuality.
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Credit to Atletico for recouping their fee and offloading him immediately in the January window, Guangzhou got nothing out of him.
David Healy
Maybe not as relevant, but Drogba was pretty average in many aspects until just before he arrived at Chelsea.
Unpopular opinion: most of the stars of World Cup 1990 (Valderrama, Caniggia, A.Pelé, Schillaci,etc).
Valderrama was pretty good in France, he is pretty much a legend for Montpellier.
David Healy, for one game only.
This just reminded me of how Jackie Fullerton used to say his name during commentary and that reminded me of this.
Robinho but harsh to say he was average. But at the Copa America (I think 2007) he was out of this world. He also had a great 6 months at Madrid before injury
julio Baptista at Sevilla. The beast! I thought he was going to be phenomenal. But the move to Madrid and later Arsenal just exposed him as average. Almost had 50 goals in two seasons at Sevilla
julio Baptista at Sevilla. The beast! I thought he was going to be phenomenal. But the move to Madrid and later Arsenal just exposed him as average. Almost had 50 goals in two seasons at Sevilla
Not sure if it's been mentioned but Jackson Martinez, who scored 67 in 90 games for Porto before accumulating a grand total of 16 goals at his next four clubs, including Iberian stalwarts Atletico Madrid.
I was randomly thinking about this the other day. I genuinely think we win the league that season if the Eduardo leg break doesn't happen, and in that scenario the team sticks together and who knows what else they could have won. I miss the days when we weren't shite.
Cameron Borthwick-Hackson burst on to the scene and looked immense, no idea what he is up to now, Januzay could also be in that bracket.
Kante & Herrera
Luca Toni
Christian Vieri
Christian Vieri
Uh, how were they average?
Only scored 30+ 3 times? that's what 99% strikers in the World wish they could do - did you expect him to hit those heights again and again also when aging? a striker usually get to thir peak in mid twenties/around 30, which is a natural curve. i.e Drogba, Van Persie, Etc.
Maybe they weren’t average but they went through phases of being fantastic then no so much.
You could argue Drogba fits into the same category. Three seasons of 30+ seasons: 2003-04 for Marseille, 2006-07 and 2009-10 at Chelsea. With the exception of those seasons his goalscoring record was average.
Always a brilliant big game player though.
Van Persie was only world class between 2011 and 2013 too. Obviously that being pretty much the only injury free period of his career had a lot to do with it.Harsh of course, but both Van Der Vaart and Sneijder had only very brief periods in their career where they were world class, both due to the fact that they enjoyed life more than giving everything up for football. Though I think it would be more apt to describe them as world class players who were average for a large part of their career if that makes sense.
I'm also trying to find a period in Dirk Kuyt's career where he was world class, but I'm coming up empty.
Maarten Stekelenburg and Gregory van der Wiel were also amazing in 2010 only to turn to shite soon after. And who can forget Ron Vlaar and Bruno Martins Indi in 2014. I think some on here even wanted Vlaar at United
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I'd even lump Diego Milito in there too for the Inter treble season.
A world class striker hits near the 25/30 mark consistantly. Just look at the variations in his goal scoring. He scored over 20 6 times but less than 10 on 11 occasions. Same for Vieri, scored 29 one season, with 25 & 27 his other highest, Di Natale was racking up similar amounts of goals during this period in Serie A. Is he world class?
Now look at genuine world class strikers Shearer, Henry, Shevchenko, Cavani, Ronaldo etc during these guys career spans, consistantly up around 25-30 almost every season for longer periods.
That's the difference between being a world class striker and having one or two really good seasons which is what Vieri and Toni had at the very top.
I don't agree. And I think your view on candidates for this thread differs quite a lot with mine and the purpose of the thread. By your logic, you could almost throw in Wayne Rooney, as he's not scoring shitloads of goals for Everton and Derby.
Anyone who hits 3 seasons being amonst the very best players in the World is no fluke, and can't have been completely average or "go back" to being average - which I think was the purpose of the thread - To spot the flukes, Luca Toni or Vieri were no flukes, they were great strikers, who when they got older, understandably didn't consistently hit 30+ goals
I was looking at out and out strikers and their goalscoring output and relative success in those seasons.
Wayne Rooney only played as a proper striker for one maybe two season and scored over 30 goals twice. The rest of the time he was dropped out wide or a deeper supportive role, which actually makes his goal output even more impressive.
These were good goal scorers who had a couple of great/ world class seasons and then went back to being about average, like I said if Di Natale was banging similar amounts in for Udinese during this time, would you class him as world class or above average?
Roque Santa Cruz - Average in germany, amazing one season for Blackburn and then shit for Blackburn, City and everyone else who tried.
Asamoah Gyan was great for Sunderland to begin with, then faded off quickly. Can't say much for how he performed in France prior to that world cup and move to sunderland.
Asamoah Gyan was great for Sunderland to begin with, then faded off quickly. Can't say much for how he performed in France prior to that world cup and move to sunderland.
So who is the actual player that perfectly fits this description?Average player turning into world class, then back to average.
Doesn't seem like there's any, admittedly it's difficult to think of one.
I still think Lingard is the closest fit to this, is he really that good at youth level or even when he's on loan? doubt it. He worked hard yes, but then that's how average player can be useful to any team. I'm not seeing anything good nor special about him in his first season with us at the start. He quickly improved a lot and turning into a "top player" sort of for maybe less than two years (2016-2017), and hit that highest ceiling of Lingod, his attacking at #10 with that form is just remarkable. World Class is overstretching it though, but then I recall people even compare him with Muller's "space interpretation", that's a unique world class talent, and don't forget Lingard gets so many goals in his purple amazing patch. Many "world class" shots and "world class" dribbles too for someone of his level. Then early 2018, his dive declines are just amazing.. into shittiness level, that is even worse than when he started. At least when he was that young, he had a good excuse of being a young player and also arguably more useful with his energy, ambition and effort.
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I'll mention a decent shout again.
Average player turning into world class, then back to average.
Doesn't seem like there's any, admittedly it's difficult to think of one.
I still think Lingard is the closest fit to this, is he really that good at youth level or even when he's on loan? doubt it. He worked hard yes, but then that's how average player can be useful to any team. I'm not seeing anything good nor special about him in his first season with us at the start. He quickly improved a lot and turning into a "top player" sort of for maybe less than two years (2016-2017), and hit that highest ceiling of Lingod, his attacking at #10 with that form is just remarkable. World Class is overstretching it though, but then I recall people even compare him with Muller's "space interpretation", that's a unique world class talent, and don't forget Lingard gets so many goals in his purple amazing patch. Many "world class" shots and "world class" dribbles too for someone of his level. Then early 2018, his dive declines are just amazing.. into shittiness level, that is even worse than when he started. At least when he was that young, he had a good excuse of being a young player and also arguably more useful with his energy, ambition and effort.
Salvador Ballesta. Pichichi in La Liga for Santander in 99/00. Faded from and to mediocrity
Michu at Swansea also a decent shout. Don't know if World Class is the term (generally a quite loose term), but great for a short term.
Anyways, quite a few shouts, maybe you just skipped the 5 pages? Kevin Phillips in 99/00 too, also a lot of goals in one season, then dropped off
Gareth Bale. Was useless in his first few seasons at Spurs, changed positions, then was world class for 2 seasons, got his move to Madrid, fans there had a love/hate relationship with him.
Now only 31 years of age, back to being useless.
Now only 31 years of age, back to being useless.
Di Natale did almost all his impressive goalscoring a few years post-calciopoli, an entirely different era when Serie A was in decline and higher numbers were easier to get. That said he was definitely an excellent goalscorer and well above average as an overall player at that time, just a late developer. Underrated imo.
Vieri was a mid 90s/early 00s player that was finished before that time and played when talent was more spread out and the league was stronger. He was also injury prone, but still posted better than a goal every 2 games for about 8 seasons. Of course ideally you want a striker to stay fit the whole season and get past 20, rather than have as impressive a goalscoring to games ratio yet due to injuries you're only getting 12-14 goals, but still considering the more defensive era than post-calciopoli he was a very good goalscorer. Definitely way above an average player.
For a similar player to Vieri, i'd say Alen Boksic is closer to the mark though imo he was clearly better than average too. He had the one brilliant almost balon d'or winning season at Marseille where his pace, strength, good two-footed skill and goalscoring made him look a monster, but before and after that was always far more wasteful rarely even getting 10 league goals. Still very useful as a creative and battering ram forward though.
Demba Ba
He's replicating his German league numbers in italian league right now.
Surely a joke? One of the best players in the league.
Michael Bridges - 19 goals in a PL then nothing really after that. Injuries didn't help.
Michael Ricketts - 15 goals in the PL by February in a season, got an England cap, then spent most of the rest of his career in lower leagues.
Andy Carroll - a good run for Newcastle convinced Liverpool to panic spend £35m on him when it was just a purple patch. Another badly affected by injuries though.
Michael Ricketts - 15 goals in the PL by February in a season, got an England cap, then spent most of the rest of his career in lower leagues.
Andy Carroll - a good run for Newcastle convinced Liverpool to panic spend £35m on him when it was just a purple patch. Another badly affected by injuries though.
Asamoah Gyan was still good, he just left Sunderland for UAE in his peak for the money and then scored more than a goal a game in that league.