and why should a club care about the opinions of other clubs fans?
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
No, it is definitely working as intended.
You're beyond help if you think Barcelona are currently in a better state than Chelsea. The only reason I can think of to choose Barcelona over Chelsea at the moment is the climate.
I didn't say they should but I can honestly say I would be deeply ashamed of my club if it was acting like Barca.
Maybe it belongs to the Kounde thread instead of here but since you mentioned it, I feel like I have to correct you. Chelsea's contract offer for Kounde was €9M a year gross before tax, as stated by Fabrizio Romano. I find it really hard to believe Barcelona's offer is only half of that. A healthy amount of source criticism goes a long way in the era of fake news so perhaps you shouldn't blindly believe everything the Barca propaganda machine are telling you.
And btw, Chelsea's wages to turnover ratio is on a much healthier percentage than Barcelona's so you tell me, is it sustainable or not? If not, then your club is fecked.
P.S. Maybe you should consider learning to capitalize your sentences, it's really horrible to read your posts. Or did they not teach that at school yet?
Maybe fan opinions don't matter but the players aren't blind either. If your club continues to treat your own players like garbage, eventually other players might start having second thoughts about even joining your lot.
Clearly it's not a problem as of yet but all it takes is for things to get a little bit uglier for example with De Jong and for the dirty laundry to start being washed in public instead of behind closed doors. Enough noise and it will definitely start being a talking point between players and their agents so when Barca come calling, are they still going to want to answer?
The way your club is handling the De Jong situation is a disgrace.
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chelsea has been a bottomless pit of money. 200M losses per year for 20 years. only possible because a friend of a war criminal has been stealing his country for decades and sent that bloody money to chelsea as a toy.
players seem to think otherwise. they are more vested on this matter so i guess they will have other reasons aside of the climate.
i love you too my friend
of course, and barça has to pay all the money the contracts say.
barça would have been relegated if that wasn't true.
it is better not to open the "morality" door, because you might ending not very well there.
Are you getting the 200M losses per year for 20 years from the same calculator you lot are using for Barca's increased stadium revenues? Because that's not even close to being true.
Let's put it this way, if Abramovich hadn't been sanctioned and thus forced to give all sales proceeds to the government he'd have turned a profit of almost a billion euros following the sale of the club. So much for bottomless pit of money.
Caixa bank and other local banks
Funny things is that these banks have to ask or asked in the past to be saved by spanish govt
Spanish and european people pays their debts with their taxes
What salary will Koulibaly have at Chelsea?
I find the offer of €4.5M net per year per Koundé a bit low.
Barcelona will offer Kounde a net €6M approximately.
Could you tell me Chelsea's spending on salaries + amortization?
How much is the turnover ratio?
I have read that Chelsea have a debt of 800M, is it true?
That's your opinion and it's fair.
As a culer, I'm not ashamed. Every company faces at some point hard times and has to make hard decisions for the best of the company (in this case club). Especially if the current board has nothing to do with their horrendous heritage.
The club won't continue with that kind of treatment of course. It's only done with contracts signed by bartomeu, which the club simply can't afford. They run out, every new season there are less and less barto contracts. Why should Laporta behave like that on contracts he signs? He's never done it before. He just tries to get rid of those criminally high barto wages.
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I don’t remember Chelsea ever forcing players into wage deferrals or threatening them with sale if they refuse to comply.
I also don’t remember Chelsea signing players while owing so much money in backlogged payments to other members of their staff for work that has already been done.
It’s not about the finances, debt, ammortisation or anything of that sort. It’s about the immoral conduct and complete lack of ethics the club is currently showing. It’s a disgrace and there is no one who will defend it bar the clubs own fans.
I also don’t remember Chelsea signing players while owing so much money in backlogged payments to other members of their staff for work that has already been done.
It’s not about the finances, debt, ammortisation or anything of that sort. It’s about the immoral conduct and complete lack of ethics the club is currently showing. It’s a disgrace and there is no one who will defend it bar the clubs own fans.
It's about money, if you have enough money you behave one way and no money another way.
And how the Russian owner of Chelsea put money of his pocket there was no such problem.
Koulibaly's salary is €18m a year before tax (€10M net). Makes sense he'd be offered more because he's proven his level for a much longer period of time than Kounde and is getting his last big pay day.
Kounde on the other hand, if he had joined the club, would ideally have signed a 5 year deal with the plan to extend it in another 2-3 years with a salary increase when he's about to hit his peak years as a player. If he'd already gotten Koulibaly's salary immediately, then who knows what his demands would have been later on for a renewal? It's not really a sustainable plan and to me it's obvious why Chelsea weren't going to make Kounde one of the club's top3 highest earners straight away.
It's possible there may have been some bonuses on top with Kounde's salary offer because I've seen figures of €9M a year gross and €6M a year net being mentioned and they only add up if there are some bonuses. Either way it was never going to be significantly higher than Barca's offer.
The latest published accounts (season 2020/21) show a wage bill of £332M (includes non-playing staff as well) and amortisation £162M. Overall wages+amortisation £495M.
Turnover for that season was only £435M so salaries made up for 76% and with amortisations included it rose up to almost 114%. That was the covid season with match day revenue of only £7M and overall estimated revenue losses of £96M including match day deficit and other commercial stuff. With the return of fans to the stadiums last season, the figures should already be on a much healthier basis for 21/22 season with lots of additional revenue and not many additional expenses.
Chelsea at the moment have zero debt. The large debt to Abramovich (£1.6bn) was cleared in the club's takeover and there were never any debts to third parties so the club is debt-free. The new owners Boehly-Clearlake were recently reported to have taken on a £800M debt for themselves, not for the club. It looks like the money will be invested into the club and I would think most of it will go into the new stadium renovation project but it's not the club's debt but rather an investment by the owner. Chelsea won't pay back the loan nor will they have to cover any interest costs, the owners themselves will take care of it all and the investment was always part of the takeover process.
@FCBarcelona - I appreciate your optimism and that you bother to post on here, but one thing above all stands out to me about this current predicament, to quote the Swiss Ramble: This means that #FCBarcelona had a huge €173m operating loss in 2020 (i.e. excluding player sales & interest), making €432m in last 3 years. Three “Super League” clubs had higher losses (Juventus, Milan & #MCFC), but these are all supported by owners – in contrast to Barca.
We don't yet know what 2021 is, but it will have to be a huge loss too given covid and the Europa League.
The SR further points out that Barca's operating loss is 'only' 432m because of player sales in that time being near 400m (lots on Neymar).
So, from my ignorant point of view, even in pre-covid days of revenue, the only way that Barca could even manage the highest operating loss in European football was on massive player sales.
So how does Barca continue to operate without said player sales (which you seem to think are not required) and at the same time increase operating costs due to singings and new wages?
All that adds up to one thing for me: Barca would LOVE to sell Frenkie and any other asset (Dembele) in order to stop bleeding cash.
We don't yet know what 2021 is, but it will have to be a huge loss too given covid and the Europa League.
The SR further points out that Barca's operating loss is 'only' 432m because of player sales in that time being near 400m (lots on Neymar).
So, from my ignorant point of view, even in pre-covid days of revenue, the only way that Barca could even manage the highest operating loss in European football was on massive player sales.
So how does Barca continue to operate without said player sales (which you seem to think are not required) and at the same time increase operating costs due to singings and new wages?
All that adds up to one thing for me: Barca would LOVE to sell Frenkie and any other asset (Dembele) in order to stop bleeding cash.
Horrible team, dislikable for so many reasons. But one thing they have proven again to us. It is that you don't need 4 fecking years to rebuild and compete for trophies.
No. They don't, and they shouldn't.
In the balance of the season 21-22 enters 10% of the television rights sold.
Some media speak of profits of between €80-100M.
Wasn't sure what their FY was, but ok. That's a one-time thing though, doesn't really help operating costs in the long term. In fact, the financiers are banking on it hurting.
It all comes down to being able to convince players to essentially rip up contracts and further not be paid those 'deferred' covid payments. If players choose to because of their belief in mes que un club then we should probably just be impressed.
Make that 10. It's infuriating that Utd didn't seriously bid for FdJ in 2019 or for Kounde in 2021.
United are working on a "mess of a club" advertising campaign to convince our players to tear up their contacts, inspired by Barca.
The only players with salaries off the salary scale are Piqué, Alba, Busquets, FDJ and Ter Stegen.
Busquets is his last year of contract. Piqué and Alba have 2 years of contract. Barcelona will look for a reduction in their salaries but they have only a few years left on their contract.
Barcelona have also finished the amortizacion of Coutinho and Dembele, and this is Griezzman's final year.
The club is lowering the wage bill but it takes time.
Thanks, it is a pleasure to answer people like you that do not just insult.
I'm not an optimistic, I'm very pragmatic. Situation is not good, but Barcelona will survive. Situation is WAY, WAY, WAY better than 1 year ago. Besides, I have clearly stated that I would not have paid 45 for Lewa (due to his age) and 48 for Raphinha (i haven't seen him a lot so i can be biased here).
The operating cost should be leveled by this year, or, worst case scenario, next one.
We had close to 200M in operating loss in 2020, but we already basically reduced the wage bill by that amount from releasing Messi, Griezmann, Coutinho and the renovations of Dembele or Sergi Roberto (not even considering other captains with huge salaries that will end in 2 years). 80% of the team is the new wage structure and 100% will be in 2 years (well, only FDJ could remain). It will be healthy. We are not even considering revenues improvement after COVID. Obviously, if we keep buying and not selling it is going to be negative if you don't take into account one time off payments like the "levers", but it is a different story.
And yes, Barça WANTS to sell FDJ and Depay this year (Barça will probably try to sell/renew Dembele next year because he signed for 2 years). That is why I find funny that some many people on the forum says that Barça is trying to keep him.
As I (and other informed people) have said, since the last debt reorg, the issue is the Spanish FFP, not the debt itself.
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Is it good selling some LaLiga (again, only LaLiga rights)? No. Is it catastrophic? no. We have sold ~5% of our current revenues, and international TV rights and merch in general are expected to grow more than the domestic tv rights. So, hopefully it represent something closer to 3% in the near future. Is it good to have 3% less revenues for 2 decades (considering that we don't rebuy them)? no. Does it imply bankrupcty o lack of capacity to compete with other big teams? No.
omg, why didn’t every other team think about that!
The proof will be in the pudding. All things being equal, the next big 'star' to choose his destination say between Madrid and Barca will have to take into account Barca being unable to come close on wages. Or Barca will try to compete, and get back into the same problem it's currently in. All the while having sacrificed future earnings, and of course having huge debt.
The reason so many people are (rightly imo) balking at Barca's behaviour is they're only paying lip service to being in 'austerity mode'. With the same mouth Barca are saying to Frenkie, Ter Stegen etc 'listen we're broke, so we need you guys to forgo, say, 10m a season between you' - oh and we're taking that 10m and sinking it right back into a Lewandowski, or Christensen etc.
If Barca would both reducing contracts AND agreeing not to make big signings, but instead focussing on the academy then it would be a congruent strategy. As it is, it looks more like having and cake and eating it.
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He looks a bit like Smeagol.
game, set, match
Barca already had a decent squad even with all their failed signings. Just wasn't good enough to challenge RM. Sevilla, Atletico, and maybe another club don't have the full season power to displace Barcelona even if they are weaker.
That 150 Euros bought them 3 very good players, with 3 on frees, and 1 was bought for 5M Euros and isn't going to feature for the first team for the immediate near future.
Barcelona's competing in a less competitive league than Man Utd are. Regardless of the failings of the Utd hierarchy during this period you always have to take that into account.
How about that new CB?
The team they've assembled could easily compete in the Premier League and is currently better than ours, in my opinion, so thats no excuse really.
In the coming years and with a fairly complete squad, Barcelona should sign players who finish their contract, last year of contract and players from the academy.
While they have just paid amortizations and the players with the highest contracts leave.
I admire your optimism, but if it was all that easy, I don't think we'd be having this discussion.
In the end, clubs like City, PSG, Chelsea and now Newcastle are in competition for players with Barcelona. Those clubs don't have to rely on revenues to exist, so the temptation will always be there to reach beyond means.
Of course, in a sensible 'sporting competition' such inequities would never exist, but this is football, where we all pray at the altar of the almighty dollar.
Went to the shops today. On my way i saw a homeless person, but one of the creative types.
He had multiple signs with cups where you could choose what cause to donate for and the bloke looked desperate enough for me to cave in and be generous.
So.., long story short, i put 2€ in the cup that read "Raphinha".
All he said was "Gràcies".
He had multiple signs with cups where you could choose what cause to donate for and the bloke looked desperate enough for me to cave in and be generous.
So.., long story short, i put 2€ in the cup that read "Raphinha".
All he said was "Gràcies".
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Barcelona luckily still has the power of attraction, the players want to come.
Every year there are players who finish their contract and can be signed.
Barcelona will have to be attentive and move well.
In addition, the economic effort was made this year. In the coming years it is time to spend little. There is no other option.
You'd think this would be their future strategy...we'll wait and see.
A player with an expired contract usually attracts large sign on fees and agents fees as opposed to having a transfer fee involved. Will be extremely interesting to see just how much you have to agents this summer. There’s attracting players and then there’s attracting agents.
Chelsea have been getting destroyed by Barca when it comes to signing new players. They’ve literally lost out on Kounde, and raphinha and Newcastle isn’t exactly a place non Brit’s will be clamouring to play for. People vastly underestimate the pull Barca and Madrid have.