Nah , you're a full member so you're fine but there just seems to be so many new barca fan newbies here suddenly.
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
of course it matters. how could not matter? if all the teams want to sell the rights individually what should do barça and real? leaving money on the table? just handling their money to others because potato?
i haven't said they used that specific word. you can try to mock/discredit people not using specific words.
i dont know if you are more obsessed with barça or newbies.
what you are not obsessed at all is data and numbers, still not a single "contribution" here engaging in a conversation with actual numbers.
@Niemans gave you some approximate numbers. besides, barça studios barely generate any income, let alone benefits
if you don't get the analogies the problem is yours. but, you get the analogies.
the fact that you didn't mention what i told about selling martial at 40M speaks volume.
you can try to avoid responding to the topic saying that something is "tasteless" or that "you cannot compare" but it is extremely difficult to say something about the exact same situation.
so, your theory is that you would find surprising that the current board was praised if they sell martial at 40M.
It doesn't matter when the argument you're trying to make is that Premier League and financially doping teams have an advantage over "self made" teams like Barcelona when it's been proven in the past that you've benefitted from special deals that other clubs haven't had. Keep up.
Also, I don't have to discredit you as you're doing a fine job of that yourself. Quit the diversion tactics, I have toddlers who try it and it doesn't work when they do it either. You used a banned word. Don't use the word again. If you didn't see it from another poster then you have no reason to use it yourself. End of discussion.
Don't bother too much , it's an argument I've seen barca and to a degree Madrid fans use ad nauseum in social media even if it doesn't make much sense, they just keep on running with it, perez has used it as well which leads me to believe it's the narrative they promulgate in their media.
The NEW YORK TIMES reported the three clubs will extract MILLIONS from the other founder clubs in penalties for withdrawals. Several other sites including the Daily Mail have that figure as 87 million per club, and that the clubs are “at war” behind the scenes.
That article was from today. So there’s the start of your “timeline”.
The leaders of the three teams: Juventus, Madrid, and Barcelona met in Vegas to discuss this very subject last week, as reported by several outlets. They have PUBLICLY said that the Superleague is still on repeatedly over the last year, and in specific public comments as recently as June.
How do you think they get said money? Do you think the teams involved will just volunteer it? This will be a legal battle.
You should just get used to the fact that the things I tell you will turn out to be on point.
Barca was at least self aware enough to make their second jersey the color of urine and feces this year.
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Yet spending money left, right and centre on shiny new toys.
Yeah, I know you're right. It's like talking to an answering machine.
We probably should just limit barca newbies till the de jong transfer is done.
i'm just pointing that you have 0 knowledge about the history of the tv rights of laliga and why barca and madrid get more money.
can you please show me "proven special deals" that we benefitted from and no other clubs had?
and can you please point where im making that argument in the message that you cited?
where exactly im talking about premier league???
i dont divert anything. im one of the few who give arguments here. your arguments are "ban barça newbies", or just telling "delusional" from a post with a lot of numbers and explanations. or just "funny" jokes that have been told 13213123124 times.
instead of "you discredit yourself", why dont you care explaining with numbers and data why iam wrong?
i find funny that worriness about specific words and not the intention and message itself.
my bet is that you are going to divert to a meaningless thing and you are not going to say a single word about those "special deals" and where i was making any argument to you about the premier league.
PD: im glad your toddlers dont outsmart you.
Don't act as if you're doing any research or fact checking anything - you're just regurgitating the sound bites of the Barça PR machine
Just ignore it mate. @Niemans provides evidence and debates the topic, no matter how much I don't agree with him he's still a good poster. This other guy trying to put himself in the same category however is a bit hilarious.Don't act as if you're doing any research or fact checking anything - you're just regurgitating the sound bites of the Barça PR machine
Newbies; take note of how NOT to engage on the internet with differing opinions.
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Anyway, big day today...
Saying that a different distribution of TV rights from the PL is "financial doping" is ridiculous.
Let me clarify. I'm not saying it's financial doping but I'm questioning why some Barcelona fans claim to be completely self made compared to financial doping clubs.
I wouldn't praise the negotiator, I'd just be glad that a player i think is no use any more is gone. I think it's symptomatic of the desperation at barca to find something, ANYTHING positive to say about the club that you resort to praising your board for selling a player you wasted a huge amount of money on at a gigantic loss. Surely there must be more than that to shout about? What about the AMAZING DEALS you've made selling off future earnings at a fraction of their eventual value? Or the AMAZING NEGOTIATING your team has deployed to try to force Frenkie out. Or the BIG NAME PLAYERS you've signed (tomorrow's financials be damned)?of course it matters. how could not matter? if all the teams want to sell the rights individually what should do barça and real? leaving money on the table? just handling their money to others because potato?
i haven't said they used that specific word. you can try to mock/discredit people not using specific words.
i dont know if you are more obsessed with barça or newbies.
what you are not obsessed at all is data and numbers, still not a single "contribution" here engaging in a conversation with actual numbers.
@Niemans gave you some approximate numbers. besides, barça studios barely generate any income, let alone benefits
if you don't get the analogies the problem is yours. but, you get the analogies.
the fact that you didn't mention what i told about selling martial at 40M speaks volume.
you can try to avoid responding to the topic saying that something is "tasteless" or that "you cannot compare" but it is extremely difficult to say something about the exact same situation.
so, your theory is that you would find surprising that the current board was praised if they sell martial at 40M.
The example you gave was television rights and getting the lion's share of the money. The question of who "owns" these rights and who gets to profit from them is not trivial:
There are perfectly valid legal and ethical arguments as to why individual rights' sale is appropriate and better than collective sale. Thus, nothing wrong with Barcelona selling their rights individually and making lots of money, at least not anymore than there being anything wrong with the PL selling its rights collectively and creating an anticompetitive cartel that inflates costs and prices for everyone.COLLECTIVE VERSUS INDIVIDUAL SALE OF TELEVISION RIGHTS IN LEAGUE SPORTS said:
Since the rights belong to Barcelona in that legal system, and they are exploiting them, then by definition the profit from those is "self made."
Fair enough.
You've just defended Barcelona though so you might need to take a shower to wash the stains of shame off
Yeah, Real, Barca and Juve appear to think the Super League is either still happening or that they can get the pull out fees from the other teams.
However, I think they may be understimating how people like Al-Khelaifi and Mansour can put serious legal teams together.
If they actually lose that Super League case and they get banned from Europe as a result, it will be runious.
The reason EPL clubs pulled out was because Boris was threading to make it illegal for them to join. How they can be sued over that is ridiculous
Well the SL3 seem to think they can get them. In my opinion, I think the SL3 may have some sort of contract which has onerous pull out clauses. The devil will be as to whether it was legally binding within a particular time frame/all that resulted.
The thing with this case it that it is super important for the SL3 as any loss will probably also result in a ban from Europe. I know City managed to avoid their ban, but they got that on a technicality and the information that proved their guilt was obtained in an illegal fashion. The SL3 won't have that luxury in their appeal and I suspect the ban will be longer than 1 year.
I don't find The Daily Mail a persuasive source for Real Madrid / Barcelona news. I am fairly confident this lawsuit is not going to happen.
No one has pulled out yet officially. Nobody spends years and millions to plan something huge with the risk anyone can just quit whenever he wants. There are fines to be payed and so far no team payed them. That means everyone is still officially a part of the SL plans, no matter the social media posts to calm the fans. Perez confirmed it. That's why I still have no idea why the Juve-Madrid-Barca SL jokes are so popular. You guys can be easily manipulated with a few SM posts.
I’m guessing if we haven’t pulled out it’s to avoid fines and all of that nonsense. It’s not as if Perez can force us to accept terms on the league going forward, the rest of us can play politics and stall it from the inside.
Strange, as United and the other English clubs released categorical statements stating they had withdrawn.
These statements were released online, verbally as well as social media, calling for the Super League to then claim these clubs had breached their contracts, suggesting that they had infact withdrawn.
Yes they have. Why do you think the court case from UEFA currently ongoing is only against those three?
@Niemans Given Barcelona's situation, where do you think the club will be, financially, and more importantly, player wise in 3 years? Obviously it's difficult to track and predict the unknowns, but an overview of the potential picture?
Which case are you talking about? I only know the one Uefa threatened to open and then nothing happend, when some judges reminded them that they operate under european and not under sicily mafia laws.
And I personally don't understand the general outrage on the Superleague. Yes, the format was horribly introduced with an elite circle without any relegations. But just imagine a format quite similar to the current CL, just without the corrupt intermediary, who takes every year €700m+ for himself just for organizing games. Why shouldn't the participating teams get those €700m as well? The clubs earn the money with their product, so why should they give away a big amount of it to corrupt old men? No one even knows Ceferin's salary.
Just remember Ceferin's face and reaction, when the news was published. Like a mafia boss losing his income. He lost his professionalism and started to insult presidents! That guy and the whole UEFA are a nest of snakes, who live on the work of the best european football clubs, nothing more. It's about time to cut them off, just not in the way the first SL proposed.
The one that started last month
https://www.politico.eu/article/super-league-uefa-begin-battle-at-eus-top-court/
I would prefer a system that took that money and distributed it throughout the various levels of the game, rather than flowing towards the top.
UEFA sort of do that, except for all the corruption. I'd still take that over a system engineered to enrich the top dogs by design.
Why would anyone be interested in an artificial walled garden of a handful of teams that only exists to sustain otherwise unsustainable Business Models?
And frankly your club is among the dead last ones to question other people's ethics. Don't cry Mafia, it's hurling rocks in a glasshouse.
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If Barcelona sign Azpilicueta, [Irrelevant point] and Bernardo Silva and sell FDJ, the club will have a very complete squad.
The logical option, and Laporta also said a few days ago, is to spend little in the coming years.
In the next two years, Barcelona will have already finished paying some important amortizations, players with very high salaries will leave ( Busquets, Alba, Piqué).
That will reduce a lot of wage bill.
The ideal is to sign players who are out of contract, in their last year of contract and there are also a few players from the youth academy who are aiming high.
There is no more history, it is to have a sustainable wage bill and try to sign intelligently.
It looks a bit bloated to me.
Yesterday I looked at Barcelona's squads for 08/09, 10/11, 14/15 (CL + Liga winning squads). There were 14-15 players in those squads that played 2000+ minutes. The rest of the players in those squads were:
08/09: Sylvinho, Bojan, Hleb, Gudjohnsen, Caceres, Pinto, Victor Sanchez, Pedro
10/11: Bojan, Pinto, Afellay, Thiago, Milito, Fontás, Bartra, Jeffren, Nolito, Jonathan dos Santos
14/15: Bartra, Ter Stegen, Rafinha, Adriano, Sergi Roberto, Munir, Montoya, Samper
This is mostly just a list of people who weren't really good enough for Barcelona, at the time or ever. Before you say "times have changed", in Real Madrid's squad from last season, (also CL+Liga winning), 15 players played 2000+ minutes. The players who played less than 2000 minutes:
21/22: Camavinga, Hazard, Marcelo, Jovic, Isco, Bale, Mariano, Lunin, Vallejo, Ceballos
Again, mostly 'not good enoughs' and 'on the way outs.' This seems to me like clear evidence that a squad really only needs 14-15 players who can be counted on.
Looking at Barcelona's squad, you'd expect these players would/should play 2000+ minutes: Ter Stegen, Araujo, Alba, Pique, Christensen, Kounde, Busquets, Pedri, De Jong, Kessie, Dembele, Torres, Aubameyang, Lewandowski, Raphinha. That's already 15 players. You have the core of a team right there. and with Fati, Gavi, Garcia, Depay for sub 2000 min players. And you want to replace one core player with another one plus two 30+ year olds?
There's no way this is necessary.
I agree that some player is not necessary, although this season with the World Cup overloads the calendar a lot.
Some players have been signed because either the operation was done now or it would be lost forever.
Let's see how the matter of player departures is.
Azpilicueta and M. Alonso are cheap and experienced. I guess they will be at the club for 2-3 years and when there is money we will see what is done.
I'm interested in seeing Arnau Martínez (RB, 19yo) this year in the first division.
I would like Baldé to have more opportunities, he has a lot of potential but he is still 18 years old.
Do you know what the story is with the likes of Pique and Alba and their deferred wages? Should they retire or leave will Barcelona still be paying them, or is the hope that they will be written off?
They have the same type of contract as FDJ. In the pandemic they lowered their salary and now they earn a lot, in addition to the end of the contract they have a loyalty bonus.
Barcelona will try to negotiate with them to get them on the pay scale.
Busquets is his last year of contract, Piqué and Alba have 2 years left.
It's really sad that Isco was sat on the bench all these years. He had so much potential.
If they deferred their wages for those couple of years, then Busquets especially must be on huge wages this year. Unless the deferred amount will be paid as the loyalty bonus upon completion of his contract.
Will definitely take a while for the club to settle properly again under proper fiscal management.
That's also a reason barca activated those levers. To be able to pay them if negotiations fail. Bartomeu gave them of course monster contracts although the captains were all past 30 and their prime already. This guy was a Madrid spy, I'm sure of it. Even Gaspard, the worst president until Bartomeu looked like a capable person in comparison. When the last Barto contract runs out and barca will be finally on a wage structure compared to other top teams and not 40% above them, then we culers can celebrate.
As a fan of football fan it’s aggravating. As a general person with common sense regarding what Barcelona are doing is appalling and RUINING the integrity of the game.
Poorly run from a financial standpoint is not even a fair analysis. Instead the words disaster and shambles and even disgraceful I think better suit them.
Take a look a the following..
1) roster (I mean damn)
2) debt
3) a vision/ plan of giving away rights will magically fix the problem
4) owed wages to players…. This is a joke when
5) buying players in the transfer market while
6) holding up other clubs by playing the public game and not letting players go
it’s all a joke, seriously. This club is a joke. The way they are allowed to get away with this is a pisser to every fan of any club that have to remotely deal with those ass hats!
Poorly run from a financial standpoint is not even a fair analysis. Instead the words disaster and shambles and even disgraceful I think better suit them.
Take a look a the following..
1) roster (I mean damn)
2) debt
3) a vision/ plan of giving away rights will magically fix the problem
4) owed wages to players…. This is a joke when
5) buying players in the transfer market while
6) holding up other clubs by playing the public game and not letting players go
it’s all a joke, seriously. This club is a joke. The way they are allowed to get away with this is a pisser to every fan of any club that have to remotely deal with those ass hats!
Interesting to see what happens come registration time - when is that?
Now they are selling nft
Okay, let's see those following points from a general person with common sense who believes barca is RUINING football:
Barcelona sees itself as a top club with the ambition to fight for all trophies. For that you need high quality players and not only for the starting 11, but also on the bench for various reasons:
Injury, recovery, motivation to perform on the highest level through competition, different skillsets for various systems against different opponents.
A nice buzzword without any meaning on itself. Volkswagen is €200 billion in debt. If they can pay their debts with their own money, why so many people jump on it? Barca has no suggar daddy, every credit is being accepted by the banks because of barca's revenue, they achieved by the way on their own with over hundred years of football. Why do people think they are smarter than auditors of multi billion $ investment banks?
Not magically, but through investment. In football, players are the investment as they generate revenue. First lesson in business administration. That's how investments work.
Without investments, there is no growth. Without growth, the problem stays and gets worse. Second lesson in business.
No one is legally owed a penny. Barca restructured many contracts to pay less during covid and pay them the deffered wages on top in the next years. Every player agreed to it, since they understood barca couldn't pay them because a big part of their revenue vanished over night (around €300m). Yes, it's Bartomeu's fault in giving every dime away barca earned so they had nothing left when Covid hit. But that's just business risk. No one could have imagined that the stadiums would close for over a year and tourism would stop completely. Barca is the team that relied on tourism more than any other football club worldwide. People who travel to barcelona on holiday are willing to pay €200 to see a game in the Camp Nou, €30 to see the museum and even more money to spend in the fanshop. Barcelona was a tourist magnet before covid and a big part of barca's revenue came from tourists and that ended unpredictably. So I miss the joke here as every player get's his wage as was agreed so far. Or can you proof otherwise? Is a player suing barca for not getting his wages?
What has 5) to do with 6) ? They are completely different points. I explained the reason barca buying players in 1). And how is "holding up" a thing to complain? Is this your first transfer window? Every club does that until everyone is satisfied with the transfer. You want to criticize that, then have fun criticizing all the football clubs around the globe. By the way we have a free market in europe. There is no draft system, so players can hold their transfers as long as they want to and I'm really glad about it (as is every other football fan I believe). That's what's happening with Frenkie by the way. He is holding up the transfer, barca and united agreed on a fee weeks ago.
Well if that's not a nice take from a general person with common sense. Thank you for your points and have a nice day.