So now Gavi is available for Chelsea to pick up on a 150M deal?
Barcelona: Charged with corruption .... again!
- Thread starter The Boy
- Start date
YES!
Wow. Wow. Wow. Someone on Twitter explained it.
THREAD: For the Barca fans who still don't understand, that you don't have to BUY individual referees to cheat in the Negreira-Barca system. Here is an explanation:
Barcelona paid almost 7.4m to Negreira between 2001-2018 (there are indications that these payments started as early as the 90s).
Negreira was Vice President of the CTA between 1994-2018 and was responsible for which referees were promoted/relegated and got to referee internationally. La Liga referees are paid around €400,000 a year (roughly twice as much as in the EPL).
In addition, Negreira's son (who also received money from Barcelona) ran numerous training camps for referees and was responsible, among other things, for driving the La Liga referees from the hotel to the stadium on match days.
So he was in close contact with referees and was able to influence referees as well. There have already been statements from some former La Liga referees that they "felt pressured" by Negreira's son.
In every league there are going to be referees who simply cannot be 100% impartial because they have a certain ideological proximity to individual teams. This is not a problem specific to Spain.
BUT: In a fair system, these referees (regardless of whether they are: pro United, pro City, pro Liverpool etc.) will no longer be allowed to referee in the top division over time because they'll make too many mistakes pro/contra certain teams.
This means that in a fair system it balances itself out and ultimately the majority of the referees in the top divisions who whistle fairly and impartially remain.
Negreira now made sure that this self-cleaning mechanism of the system cannot work. For at least 17 years he ruled that referees who are pro Barca/Anti Madrid were being promoted and those who made mistakes against Barca were punished more quickly (eg relegation)
In a system like this, you don't have to pay individual referees. You just make sure that as many of them as possible are ideologically pro Barca/Anti Madrid and you can be sure that the majority of the mistakes will be in your favor.
This also explains the following points: 1. Why do madridistas still say they are being disadvantaged? After all the payments ended in 2018. Easy to explain: The referees who are in La Liga because of Negreira are not suddenly impartial just because Negreira is gone.
On the contrary, many of them now hold high positions within the CTA themselves. Clos Gomez (as an active referee, he officiated 34 Real games: 20 wins, 7 draws, 7 defeats, 102 yellow cards, 8 red cards), for example, is head of the VAR in Spain.
2. "How can it be cheating, when there've also been decisions that put Barca at a disadvantage?" Because there was no active payment of the individual referees! There have always been mistakes and there always will be.
However, in a fair system, this balances itself out in the medium and long term, so that each club has approximately the same error rate pro/contra. Negreira's system worked by shifting that balance significantly towards Pro Barca.
THREAD: For the Barca fans who still don't understand, that you don't have to BUY individual referees to cheat in the Negreira-Barca system. Here is an explanation:
Barcelona paid almost 7.4m to Negreira between 2001-2018 (there are indications that these payments started as early as the 90s).
Negreira was Vice President of the CTA between 1994-2018 and was responsible for which referees were promoted/relegated and got to referee internationally. La Liga referees are paid around €400,000 a year (roughly twice as much as in the EPL).
In addition, Negreira's son (who also received money from Barcelona) ran numerous training camps for referees and was responsible, among other things, for driving the La Liga referees from the hotel to the stadium on match days.
So he was in close contact with referees and was able to influence referees as well. There have already been statements from some former La Liga referees that they "felt pressured" by Negreira's son.
In every league there are going to be referees who simply cannot be 100% impartial because they have a certain ideological proximity to individual teams. This is not a problem specific to Spain.
BUT: In a fair system, these referees (regardless of whether they are: pro United, pro City, pro Liverpool etc.) will no longer be allowed to referee in the top division over time because they'll make too many mistakes pro/contra certain teams.
This means that in a fair system it balances itself out and ultimately the majority of the referees in the top divisions who whistle fairly and impartially remain.
Negreira now made sure that this self-cleaning mechanism of the system cannot work. For at least 17 years he ruled that referees who are pro Barca/Anti Madrid were being promoted and those who made mistakes against Barca were punished more quickly (eg relegation)
In a system like this, you don't have to pay individual referees. You just make sure that as many of them as possible are ideologically pro Barca/Anti Madrid and you can be sure that the majority of the mistakes will be in your favor.
This also explains the following points: 1. Why do madridistas still say they are being disadvantaged? After all the payments ended in 2018. Easy to explain: The referees who are in La Liga because of Negreira are not suddenly impartial just because Negreira is gone.
On the contrary, many of them now hold high positions within the CTA themselves. Clos Gomez (as an active referee, he officiated 34 Real games: 20 wins, 7 draws, 7 defeats, 102 yellow cards, 8 red cards), for example, is head of the VAR in Spain.
2. "How can it be cheating, when there've also been decisions that put Barca at a disadvantage?" Because there was no active payment of the individual referees! There have always been mistakes and there always will be.
However, in a fair system, this balances itself out in the medium and long term, so that each club has approximately the same error rate pro/contra. Negreira's system worked by shifting that balance significantly towards Pro Barca.
"Gavi, you're going to Chelsea"
(He should go to Juventus, he's obviously italian).
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(He should go to Juventus, he's obviously italian).
Looks like the prosecution will ask Laporta, Gaspart, Ernesto Valverde and Luis Enrique to testify Link
There is a very new and interesting article regarding this scandal:
The 'justification' of the former presidents of Barça for the 'Negreira Case': ''We were paying in self-defense''.
The executives under investigation, in private conversations, say they hired the former VP of referees to compensate for the favors received by Real Madrid
"We paid in self-defense". It is one of the confidences made by the former presidents and former executives of Barcelona investigated in the Negreira case. Both Rosell and Bartomeu maintained the payments to the former vice-president of the Technical Committee of Referees (CTA), initiated in the Núñez era and maintained by Joan Laporta, convinced that there was a tendency to favor Real Madrid in the referee's office.
The leaders, always in private conversations, maintain that they hid these payments from their directors and a good part of their executives "to protect them". Not in vain, this has been the argument that some of Barcelona's former top officials have received in recent weeks when asking for explanations for the systematized payments to the former number two of the refereeing staff. Sources from the former management teams added to EL MUNDO that if they did not break with José María Enríquez Negreira earlier, it was because he maintained a permanent blackmail on the club with false accusations and they did not want it to lead to a big public scandal.
This version coincides with those made to the Tax Agency by the former referee, who said that Barça wanted to guarantee "neutrality" in the arbitrations. Other executives now under investigation, such as Albert Soler, stated that they only knew of the club's relationship with Javier Negreira, son of the former vice-president of the CTA, who made reports on the rival teams and the referees appointed on a weekly basis.
Negreira Jr. would prepare studies for the first team and the reserve team. They arrived in an envelope or he took them personally to the club's offices, from where they were forwarded to the coaches of both teams. These envelopes were identified with the letters A and B in reference to the matches of the different categories.
Negreira Jr. was paid through a company of the former manager Josep Contreras, deceased, an irregularity detected by the Tax Agency, although according to sources close to the case, he would have paid off his tax debt. Negreira Jr. has blamed his father for harming him in his soccer career. "He has ruined my life," he explained to people around him while stressing that he "did not know" what his father was doing.
Although the first trace of the relationship between Negreira and Barcelona is an invoice of 2001, everything indicates that this one began in the stage of José Luis Núñez. Nuñismo ended with the departure of Joan Gaspart and the arrival of Laporta as president in 2003. In doing so, the new president, who had been at odds with Núñez and Gaspart since the days of opposition in the Elefant Blau, said he would "lift the rugs". But after the victory, Gaspart would end up becoming an ally. The reason was his weight in the Federation presided over by Ángel María Villar. A year after Laporta's triumph, the two met at the Avenida Palace Hotel in Barcelona. They talked for hours and spoke of the need not to lose weight in the Federation, where Negreira was vice-president of the CTA. That same year, in 2004, Gaspart was appointed vice-president of institutional and international affairs of the Federation.
When Villar faced the schism due to the departure of secretary general Gerardo González, his future electoral rival, Laporta knew which side he should be on, unlike Florentino Pérez and Javier Tebas, then united. It was the winning side. From the environment of the former presidents, they also insist that payments such as those made to Negreira "have been made by other teams in the First and Second Division". Therefore, they complain that they are only acting against the azulgrana entity for a conduct that, they argue without providing evidence, is widespread in Spanish soccer.
On the other hand, the High Council of Sports (CSD) and the RFEF will appear, as will Real Madrid, in the summary of the Negreira case.
-----------------------------
This would contradict Laporta's initial declaration that they paid exclusively for reports.
This would also prove that they indeed tried to influence the refereering.
Also the fact that the High Council of Sports (CSD) will participate is pretty important at least symbolically. Miquel Iceta, actual minister of culture and sports, had previously said that the Spanish Government would be forced to participate in this case, and they are doing so through the CSD. His president has said: "this case worries me. A club does not pay the ref VP for nothing" Link
There is a very new and interesting article regarding this scandal:
The 'justification' of the former presidents of Barça for the 'Negreira Case': ''We were paying in self-defense''.
The executives under investigation, in private conversations, say they hired the former VP of referees to compensate for the favors received by Real Madrid
"We paid in self-defense". It is one of the confidences made by the former presidents and former executives of Barcelona investigated in the Negreira case. Both Rosell and Bartomeu maintained the payments to the former vice-president of the Technical Committee of Referees (CTA), initiated in the Núñez era and maintained by Joan Laporta, convinced that there was a tendency to favor Real Madrid in the referee's office.
The leaders, always in private conversations, maintain that they hid these payments from their directors and a good part of their executives "to protect them". Not in vain, this has been the argument that some of Barcelona's former top officials have received in recent weeks when asking for explanations for the systematized payments to the former number two of the refereeing staff. Sources from the former management teams added to EL MUNDO that if they did not break with José María Enríquez Negreira earlier, it was because he maintained a permanent blackmail on the club with false accusations and they did not want it to lead to a big public scandal.
This version coincides with those made to the Tax Agency by the former referee, who said that Barça wanted to guarantee "neutrality" in the arbitrations. Other executives now under investigation, such as Albert Soler, stated that they only knew of the club's relationship with Javier Negreira, son of the former vice-president of the CTA, who made reports on the rival teams and the referees appointed on a weekly basis.
Negreira Jr. would prepare studies for the first team and the reserve team. They arrived in an envelope or he took them personally to the club's offices, from where they were forwarded to the coaches of both teams. These envelopes were identified with the letters A and B in reference to the matches of the different categories.
Negreira Jr. was paid through a company of the former manager Josep Contreras, deceased, an irregularity detected by the Tax Agency, although according to sources close to the case, he would have paid off his tax debt. Negreira Jr. has blamed his father for harming him in his soccer career. "He has ruined my life," he explained to people around him while stressing that he "did not know" what his father was doing.
Although the first trace of the relationship between Negreira and Barcelona is an invoice of 2001, everything indicates that this one began in the stage of José Luis Núñez. Nuñismo ended with the departure of Joan Gaspart and the arrival of Laporta as president in 2003. In doing so, the new president, who had been at odds with Núñez and Gaspart since the days of opposition in the Elefant Blau, said he would "lift the rugs". But after the victory, Gaspart would end up becoming an ally. The reason was his weight in the Federation presided over by Ángel María Villar. A year after Laporta's triumph, the two met at the Avenida Palace Hotel in Barcelona. They talked for hours and spoke of the need not to lose weight in the Federation, where Negreira was vice-president of the CTA. That same year, in 2004, Gaspart was appointed vice-president of institutional and international affairs of the Federation.
When Villar faced the schism due to the departure of secretary general Gerardo González, his future electoral rival, Laporta knew which side he should be on, unlike Florentino Pérez and Javier Tebas, then united. It was the winning side. From the environment of the former presidents, they also insist that payments such as those made to Negreira "have been made by other teams in the First and Second Division". Therefore, they complain that they are only acting against the azulgrana entity for a conduct that, they argue without providing evidence, is widespread in Spanish soccer.
On the other hand, the High Council of Sports (CSD) and the RFEF will appear, as will Real Madrid, in the summary of the Negreira case.
-----------------------------
This would contradict Laporta's initial declaration that they paid exclusively for reports.
This would also prove that they indeed tried to influence the refereering.
Also the fact that the High Council of Sports (CSD) will participate is pretty important at least symbolically. Miquel Iceta, actual minister of culture and sports, had previously said that the Spanish Government would be forced to participate in this case, and they are doing so through the CSD. His president has said: "this case worries me. A club does not pay the ref VP for nothing" Link
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With such a statement, Laporta sticks his neck out. He better have some really good explanation for those payments and proof or the media world will tear him apart. Let's wait for his press conference.Laporta said:
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"...ad that is why Barca is admired and recognised throughout the world"
Do we think he actually believes the guff he is spouting?
Do we think he actually believes the guff he is spouting?
Corruption can be considered a value, so he's right, they are a club with values
We were advised not to release our “proof” since we are in the middle of a legal investigation.
Guaranteed.
Yeah, it is incredible.
Once again he has said nothing and explained nothing. Just played the victim card.
To be fair, if following such scandals (Hollywood/politics etc.) has taught me anything: deny, deny, deny. Because it works (most of the time). If there is no proof, such as recordings or admissions of guilt, why not? Chances of being convicted are low anyway, no matter how shady it looks. Eventually it will blow over. Just say ‘fake news’ and you’re good.
Sure, that can also be in this case.
I'm neutral so far and give the club the benefit of a doubt. Rosell and Neymar were also charged and acquitted later, so it wouldn't be the first false charge. So far the prosecution did not present any evidence or even one witness. If barca did buy the refs, one might think it should be easy to find at least one honest actual or former ref in a period of nearly 20 years, who can testify that somebody approached him to favor barca, or someone who suddenly got demoted, because he didn't listen to Negreira. I'm pretty sure all journalists in spain are desperatly searching for him, but so far they're out of luck. Everyone they approach deny any knowledge of anything. All there is, is the payment and dozens of stories around it. That's how journalism makes money.
Wait for Laporta's press conference and then we all will know more.
It is a proven fact that they paid 7m to referees. It is not speculation.
this is going to have a really interesting outcome....they're already in debt shit due to their wage bill and been told they can't sign anyone new this summer unless they drop 200m off their wage structure
now they are facing corruption charges
now they are facing corruption charges
Why won't they just let you cheat ffs.
Point 1: Why would you incriminate yourself or others when you can just deny everything? This is basically a 101 for how gangs operate.
Point 2: Laporta is a slimey lying toad of a human. If you have any faith in him then your faith is misplaced.
The whole quote sounds like Jack Nicholsons character on the stand in A Few Good Men. I’m waiting for him to throw out a nice “You can’t handle the truth!”
or “You WANT us top of that league, you NEED us top of that league”
There is also this gentlemen:
https://www.football-espana.net/202...esignations-former-referee-iturralde-gonzalez
The most important quote:
According to former La Liga referee Eduardo Iturralde Gonzalez, there was very little opportunity for Negreira to have much say in the matter.
https://www.football-espana.net/202...esignations-former-referee-iturralde-gonzalez
The most important quote:
According to former La Liga referee Eduardo Iturralde Gonzalez, there was very little opportunity for Negreira to have much say in the matter.
But that doesn't interest the majority of course. Only pitchforks and torches!
Well, good news: nobody'll want to sign for them this summer when it has become increasingly clear that the club is facing severe punishment for buying the refs for a decade and a half! And they'll shed most of that wage burden when the majority of their star players flee the sinking ship. That solves the financial problems.
It’s clear that ref VP was breaking the rules but that’s separate from Barca’s culpability. It’s not like Barca didn’t know of his conflict of interest. I’m sure the job he had at the time was precisely the reason Barca wanted to work with him, so pointing the finger at the ref VP does nothing to absolve Barca. He is in trouble but Barca still have their own case to answer. Do you really think if it was Real Madrid who had been caught paying a guy who has influence over referees that you would be in here talking about ‘only pitchforks and torches’?
The explanations lack credibility because they paint a picture of Negreira having a job for decades in which he did nothing.
He was able to use this "nothing" job to get a consulancy with Barcelona that paid millions of euros over almost two decades. In this consultancy he also did not do anything substantial.
Because it still doesn't explain what he was paid for and why was it hiddden this way?
Where do I sign for that job?! I'll do it for half the money.
If I remember correctly Arsenal won that game 2-1. Are you talking about a different match?
Not surprised whatsoever.
But back then if you dared to say anything about how often players like Suarez and Neymar got away with diving and how soft some of the pens Barca were getting were people would just call you a delusional hater.
But back then if you dared to say anything about how often players like Suarez and Neymar got away with diving and how soft some of the pens Barca were getting were people would just call you a delusional hater.
Yeah, it was always really obvious, but everyone was in on the insufferable Barcelona love circlejerk in those days and you'd get hounded out of any football community for saying anything. It was insufferable, and it fills me with schadenfreude to see that club go down in flames. Despicable, corrupt and narcissistic. "More than a club" my arse. That always made me sick. It's like some Trump thing, going around just telling people "I'm better than you are. I'm simply superior and worth more than you."
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But tomorrow he'll probably wear the 30 again because
To accept this position you must agree not to get authorization or indeed even notify relevant sporting bodies with regards to any potential conflict of interest. You must also set up a suspect company with no employees and have accounts ready to wire payment for your services, which you are not to disclose to anyone. Finally, if this position was ever to be discovered you must deny any knowledge of it.
Even when something good and positive comes your way you find excuses to complain. It will never cease to amaze meTweet
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But tomorrow he'll probably wear the 30 again becausesomebodyTebas found out barca didn't use the correct font on their documents
I thought you were 'Neutral'?Tweet
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But tomorrow he'll probably wear the 30 again becausesomebodyTebas found out barca didn't use the correct font on their documents
I know clubs like City get off very leniently, but the amount of stuff coming out I don't see how Barca aren't severely punished for this. Looks horrible.
At least Juve getting points deducted has given me a little hope.
At least Juve getting points deducted has given me a little hope.
I'm neutral in the Negreira case until Laporta holds his press conference during the international break and presents the result of the outsourced investigation. I'm not neutral towards LaLiga and Tebas, who went to war against our club, because his ego can't handle that our club presented better deals than his cvc.I thought you were 'Neutral'?
That’s what UEFAlona always did. Sell themselves as some kind of superior institution, above all the footballing world. I love seeing them burn to the ground, arrogant and hypocrite cnuts.
A madrid based newspaper published this:
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well I'm shocked their internal documents don't say they hired him to influence the refs
So that's how we do it? Take every rumor and leak against barca as hard evidence and in return, every pro barca information as fake?
It's not fake though is it?
It's just documents that show the reason they hired him. What do you expect them to say? We're paying you to get more penalties for us and red cards for the opposition?
So we are already creating a narrative where barca can't win in your eyes? Either the prosecution finds evidence of barca bribing the refs or documents supporting barca's explanation were only fabricated to hide the bribery?
Step 1: There are no documents of barca receiving reports and consultation from Negreira! That payment was bribery!
Step 2: There are documents? Well, they are fabricated to hide the bribery!
A perfect example of a biased football community, which bends every document, rumor and evidence to support their own narrative.