Barcelona's rise as a football superpower

[Skills]

When I was growing up watching football in the late 90s/early 00s, I would never have included Barcelona in the giants of football. Certainly not in the same category as Real Madrid, and not even the Italian giants and us.

But now they're almost universally recognised as the 2nd biggest club in the world, after their most bitter rivals. And it hasn't even been that long. They've been immensely successful in that period but have bought in and held onto some of the most famous footballers of this generation. They're probably the most neutrally followed team in the world for the younger age group.

Anyone feel it could've been us had we shown the ambition at the right times? It's almost linked to our success and failures at the same time. Had we signed Ronaldinho would we have been stage for the most popular and entertaining player of the first half of the 00s?

Had we shown the right ambition after the loss in Rome, held onto Ronaldo and went mental to win more CL titles (basically what Madrid did) could we have challenged them as the team of the late 00s and early 10s? We were definitely in a better position than Madrid before they stole our best player from us, and we let them. That Rome final almost feels like the moment that we lost that race.

 

[Tommy]

They're incredible. Their squad costs less than that of United, Liverpool, City, and PSG, yet the difference in quality between at least 3 of those clubs is pretty damn huge in recent years. It all comes from the top & their desire to win things the right way.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Think the expansion of the Champions League to allow non-champions benefited them tremendously. They had never won the European Cup before the 90s, largely because Real winning the league kept locking them out of it.

 

[Wumminator]

What stuck out to me yesterday was how old they were.

Messi, Pique, Busquets, Alba, Suarez, Rakitic and Vidal are all the wrong side of 30. That is half of the 14 players used yesterday. They are so good because of Messi. He is a game changer.

In three years they will be used as an example of a badly run club.

 

[Mibabalou]

People often forget Barca won their 1st European Cup in 92 and 2nd in 2005.

Three more in the last decade had made them a Superpower but 20/30 years ago the perception of them was different.

Honestly the rise can pretty much be traced through four people; Cruyff, Guardiola, Ronaldinho, Messi.

 

[harms]

Anyone feel it could've been us had we shown the ambition at the right times? It's almost linked to our success and failures at the same time. Had we signed Ronaldinho would we have been stage for the most popular and entertaining player of the first half of the 00s?

Not really, because even if their rise to success began with Ronaldinho (although they always had a world class player or two like Figo or Rivaldo), their incredible success in the last decade is due to Messi and a few players that we didn't have a chance of signing like Iniesta. I think there was some buzz about Xavi going to United at some point before he became truly outstanding, but I doubt that we had a real chance.

 

[Irish Jet]

They've always been a superpower. They were underachieving for a while but just look at their history of dominance in a league with arguably the superpower of world football.

Their previous lack of success in Europe is actually what's far more inexplicable.

 

[El Zoido]

They’re going to struggle when Messi retires or declines. It’s not that they have a bad squad, far from it, but they dropped a level when Xavi and Iniesta moved on, and a lot of their other top players are the wrong side of 30. It’s going to be interesting for sure.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

I'm fascinated with how Barca will cope when Messi hangs up his boots.

 

[harms]

People often forget Barca won their 1st European Cup in 92 and 2nd in 2005.

Three more in the last decade had made them a Superpower but 20/30 years ago the perception of them was different.

Honestly the rise can pretty much be traced through four people; Cruyff, Guardiola, Ronaldinho, Messi.

They've had outstanding teams before that secured them the place of the second-best Spanish team long before Ronaldinho. Kubala, Suarez, Kocsis, Czibor, Neeskens, Schuster, Maradona, Simonsen, Stoichkov, Laudrup, Koeman, Romario, Ronaldo...

 

[PGLFC91]

People often forget Barca won their 1st European Cup in 92 and 2nd in 2005.

Three more in the last decade had made them a Superpower but 20/30 years ago the perception of them was different.

Honestly the rise can pretty much be traced through four people; Cruyff, Guardiola, Ronaldinho, Messi.

Ah yes that famous European Cup win Barcelona had in 2005.

I will never forget it for as long as I live!

 

[Schneckerl]

They've always been a superpower. They were underachieving for a while but just look at their history of dominance in a league with arguably the superpower of world football.
.

They won 2 league titles from 1961 to 1990.

 

[Hoof the ball]

Since 1995, Barcelona have been more successful domestically than Real Madrid.
In the 90's alone, Barcelona won La Liga 6 times. Real only won it twice.

Barca's resurgence has been thoroughly established since the 90's began.

 

[0le]

In recent years, their youth team produced some amazing talents and also having the best player in the world helps just a bit. Once Messi retires, they will struggle. But given how two(three)-sided the league is in Spain, they won't struggle as much as we have in qualifying for CL.

 

[11101]

They produced 3 of the most gifted footballers to ever play the game, all at once. It was their Class of 92 but better. Without those three they stay as merely one of quite a few big clubs in world football, instead of one of the top 3.

When Messi retires i think they will go back to being one of the second tier, on the pitch at least. The league is too skewed in their favour for their revenue to dip too much.

 

[Jibbs]

We have Glazers as owners and Woodward as CEO. Need I say more.

Also, Barcelona retained their best player, we sold ours, had Ronaldo stayed here as Messi has with Barca, we would have definitely won a couple more Premier Leagues and at least one more Champions League, would have attracted a lot better talents than we have as players want to play with the best.

Imagine if Barca had sold Messi after 2009. They wouldn't have had even half the success they have enjoyed during last 10 years.

The gulf between the two clubs has really widened in the last decade, up till 2009, both Barca and United had won equal number of champions leagues and similar number of domestic titles.

 

[matherto]

To think that Barça haven't always been a massive club and a superpower is ridiculous. Their history is massive.

Especially in the timeframe mentioned in the OP they had the likes of Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo and Ronaldinho plus a ton of well known Dutch players in the 90's and 00's and won multiple leagues and had managers like Cruyff, Van Gaal and Rijkaard who are all well known. They may have underachieved in Europe but they were still huge.

In most of the latin world they are absolutely massive and when we played them in 1998-99 they were every bit as big as us.

The Nou Camp alone in internationally famous, as is the fact that they're a Catalan club first, not a Spanish club and the rivalry with Madrid was still just as big back then as it is now, it's just that we see more of it because football is more accessible now.

The recent years are just a result of a golden generation. We had ours in the early 90's, other clubs have had theirs, it's just that if you have a golden generation now it makes it far easier to buy to supplement them because of the money in the game. We capitalised on the class of '92 with the money from the Prem TV deals and increased commercialisation to supplement them. It's order of magnitudes bigger now.

 

[Irish Jet]

They won 2 league titles from 1961 to 1990.

And we won zero from 1967 to 1992 - We were still widely considered a huge club with incredible potential. Barcelona were always one of the biggest clubs in Europe. They have probably the most famous stadium in Europe. It's absolutely crazy to suggest they became a footballing Superpower lately. They have an incredible history.

 

[Irwin99]

I was thinking about this the other day that they had less European cups/Cl's than us until that victory against Arsenal in 2006. They were a huge club already but maybe a bit like Juve, Inter and United they should have had more wins at that point. They've certainly made up for it since.

 

[Charles Miller]

When Rivaldo scored that hattrick against Valencia in 2001 with a bicycle kick Barcelona was struggling to get champions league in the last game of the season.

But if there is one thing that both spanish giants do well is they always have devastating talents in the attack. As we can see Barcelona can win with Cruyffism but they also can do it with a pragmatic approuch because they have enough wc attacking players to decide any game. Real Madrid is the same thing in the last decades.

This why i think the first thing United needs to do is signing a top elite front three.

 

[Schneckerl]

And we won zero from 1967 to 1992 - We were still widely considered a huge club with incredible potential. Barcelona were always one of the biggest clubs in Europe. They have probably the most famous stadium in Europe. It's absolutely crazy to suggest they became a footballing Superpower lately. They have an incredible history.

I was responding to the 'history of dominance in the league' part, which started rather recently.

I'm aware they were always a big club, even during their less successful period they signed Cruyff and Maradona for world record fees afterall.

 

[Hoof the ball]

1990-1999/00 La Liga Winners

Barça
90/91
91/92
92/93
93/94
97/98
98/99

Real
94/95
96/97

Atletico
95/96

Deportivo
99/00

 

[Treble]

Cruyff gave them identity and a blueprint which United are currently lacking. Fergie was a more succsessful manager than Cruyff in terms of trophies and longevity but Cruyff was a superior thinker. What's more, his understanding of the game (influenced by Michels) can be developed further and upgraded. You can't do the same about Fergie's understanding of the game. Which is closely related to the identity crisis regarding our style of play. Fergie himself became too pragmatic in his later years and one couldn't learn much about tactics from him.

 

[NM]

Cruyff gave them identity and a blueprint which United are currently lacking. Fergie was a more succsessful manager than Cruyff in terms of trophies and longevity but Cruyff was a superior thinker. What's more, his understanding of the game (influenced by Michels) can be developed further and upgraded. You can't do the same about Fergie's understanding of the game. Which is closely related to the identity crisis regarding our style of play. Fergie himself became too pragmatic in his later years and one couldn't learn much about tactics from him.

Not to go off track but the Fergie part of your post was a joke. We had a clear identity, which was ripped apart.

We are who we are due to Busby and Fergie. Barca are who they are due to Cruyff and Messi. Let's see how they do without Messi.

 

[Suedesi]

We have Glazers as owners and Woodward as CEO. Need I say more.

Also, Barcelona retained their best player, we sold ours, had Ronaldo stayed here as Messi has with Barca, we would have definitely won a couple more Premier Leagues and at least one more Champions League, would have attracted a lot better talents than we have as players want to play with the best.

Imagine if Barca had sold Messi after 2009. They wouldn't have had even half the success they have enjoyed during last 10 years.

The gulf between the two clubs has really widened in the last decade, up till 2009, both Barca and United had won equal number of champions leagues and similar number of domestic titles.

That's an interesting point, worth debating - although Ronaldo wanted to go. But... could we have offered him more knowing then what we know now. We had a generational talent that we let go far too cheaply...

 

[JohnnyKills]

What stuck out to me yesterday was how old they were.

Messi, Pique, Busquets, Alba, Suarez, Rakitic and Vidal are all the wrong side of 30. That is half of the 14 players used yesterday. They are so good because of Messi. He is a game changer.

In three years they will be used as an example of a badly run club.

Agree with this. Good post.

 

[Treble]

Not to go off track but the Fergie part of your post was a joke. We had a clear identity, which was ripped apart.

We are who we are due to Busby and Fergie. Barca are who they are due to Cruyff and Messi. Let's see how they do without Messi.

Maybe you haven't understood me. Or are a bit deluded. There was no recognisable Fergie style of playing football in his later years that could be implemented by other clubs in Europe. The difference with Cruyff is easy to notice, unless one is blinkered.

 

[giorno]

They've always been a superpower. They were underachieving for a while but just look at their history of dominance in a league with arguably the superpower of world football.

Their previous lack of success in Europe is actually what's far more inexplicable.

This. This is the club of Kubala, Kocsis and Suarez. The club that signed Johan Cruyff when he left Ajax(and then Neeskens, and Rinus Michels). The club that signed Maradona from Argentina. Romario, Ronaldo, Rivaldo...

 

[Henry]

It's down to crazy luck or whatever you want to call it , and I say this as a Barcelona fan. But in essence, it boils down to Cryuff and the legacy he left behind. That legacy which produced generational talents like Xavi and Iniesta (and great players like Pique, Busquets, Puyol) coinciding with us picking up the greatest player of all time (in my biased opinion) and Guardiola as a coach propelled us to the top.

And given how much bigger the revenue has grown the last 10 years in football, us being at the top at for this time for reasons cited has allowed us to accumulate an advantage which allows us to keep ourselves at the top by signing world class players + we still have Messi.

I am not looking forward to the day Messi retires. Pretty sure we'll have problems coping with that for some time and go from one of two S-tier clubs (Us and Real Madrid although RM is probably out of that category after this season) to an A-tier club.

 

[Siorac]

That's an interesting point, worth debating - although Ronaldo wanted to go. But... could we have offered him more knowing then what we know now. We had a generational talent that we let go far too cheaply...

Even that one extra season was a compromise. He wanted out immediately after Moscow.

 

[Paddy1983]

The reason for their success is Cryuff. When he came he brought the Ajax philosophy to them. He was the sole reason for turning around the club. He brought them great success.

Pep played under him and learned a lot of the Ajax philosophy passing and moving.
Recent years have seen a bad board and i agree they will be a shadow of a team when Messi leaves. The club have turned away from the academy and philosophy of the club.

Ajax is a remarkable team. There performace last night was magnificant. Again its the same philosophy that Cruff played under, that the keep to this day, which is simular to barca. Last night they reminded me of the great barca team of messi/iniesta/xavi midfield.

A real pity they will be disassembled this season. Barca have Frankie and will more than likely get De ligt also. Im half happy because i love barca but it is a pity to see a great club like Ajax sell their top talents. The players that came through that system are on par to the great barca side maybe even better.

It all goes to show that if you stick with a football philosophy you can win.
Too much money in the premier league. Younger players cant get the same opportunity as before. Then they have no loyalty (pogba and co).

I dont follow utd but they are the biggest team in the UK and top 3 in the world. Everyone should want to play for Real/Barca and Utd.

Utd have bought poorly and attracted wrong personalities to the club. Ferguson got rid of pogba for a reason. Nowadays players/agents have too much power.

 

[clarkydaz]

I'm fascinated with how Barca will cope when Messi hangs up his boots.

It will be like us without Ferguson. They wont know what hit them

 

[NM]

Maybe you haven't understood me. Or are a bit deluded. There was no recognisable Fergie style of playing football in his later years that could be implemented by other clubs in Europe. The difference with Cruyff is easy to notice, unless one is blinkered.

No, I understood you and you are blinkered. I have watched 99% of United games for the past 20 odd years. The Fergie style of play, even in later years was clear. Holding , controlling the center with more defense minded fielders who can cover when the full backs attack, Attack on the flanks with both the full back and wingers, and lots of crosses. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho each tried different ones, but Fergie's style was clear and distinct.

 

[BrianMcClair'sBarnet]

It will be like us without Ferguson. They wont know what hit them

Spoiler

 

[Sterling Archer]

Theirs should be an example to give us hope. We're incredibly fortunate to have the financial clout to support our revival. We also already have a legacy and history, like Barca and unlike City or PSG, that can be leveraged to lure players.

The only thing we are lacking is an ownership that understands football and places importance on the values that Barca for instance, embraced to get back to where they are: huge emphasis on their Masia youth training setup and grooming young players, sticking to a philosophy of football thats been hybridized over their history between possession and attacking play as well as the Cruyuff and total football days.

In that way, Ole's appointment is a step in the right direction. Bring back the soul of the club. Frankly, that means sticking with it even if we find ourselves in the Europa League spots for a few seasons. We shouldn't trip over ourselves to buy into the Champions League spots. Granted, I think we won't need that to be the case If we make this next rebuild smartly.

 

[the_irish123]

Growing up they seemed like a colourful flamboyant team, but not a threat in Europe like Bayern, Madrid, Italian clubs. This whole perception started to change in mid 2000s as the center of gravity of football and asian markets favored them over Serie A. But I think Ronaldinho is a huge factor in that. He may have been the reason La Liga got so big in a crucial time when asians were still deciding what to watch. He also made it the dream landing spot for up and coming latin talent.

 

[Treble]

No, I understood you and you are blinkered. I have watched 99% of United games for the past 20 odd years. The Fergie style of play, even in later years was clear. Holding , controlling the center with more defense minded fielders who can cover when the full backs attack, Attack on the flanks with both the full back and wingers, and lots of crosses. Moyes, Van Gaal and Mourinho each tried different ones, but Fergie's style was clear and distinct.

Could you tell me a successful manager today who has adopted a distinctly Fergian style of play?

What you say isn't a distinctive style of playing the game. Fergie was an exceptional manager but he didn't invent or developed a footballing philsophy (especially one that is useful today). He became quite pragmatic in his later years and didn't follow a core of distinctive principles in the way Cruyff did.

 

[Infordin]

I'm fascinated with how Barca will cope when Messi hangs up his boots.

It will be like us without Ferguson. They wont know what hit them

This was without Messi


We also have a strong core of young players (born 1992 or later):

Ter Stegen
Semedo
Lenglet
Umtiti
Roberto
De Jong
Arthur
Alena
Dembele
Malcom
Coutinho

Don't get me wrong, Messi's retirement will be a huge blow, but we still have a very strong core with or without him.

 

[Ever Moas]

What? I remember watching Ronaldo and Romario tear teams apart for Barca as a kid in the mid 90s and followed them ever since. They already had a history and mystique about them back then as well and I always went out of my way to watch them. The late 90s/early 00s team had the likes of Rivaldo, Figo, Kluivert, Guardiola and Litmanen. They were flakier back then but were absolutely a heavyweight side.

 

[totaalvoetbal]

Barcelona have always been a big team since I was growing up. They have had a victim complex ever since I have known them and every one of their failures consolidated that victimhood. They have had all the 'best' players in history. Kubala, Maradona, Johan Cruijff, Luis Suarez and I can go on and on. They also lost 2 European Cup finals.

I was told by a firend of mine during their loss in 85/86 final that the mood at the club was at boiling point. The problem they have is that there was always in-fighting and politics that constantly interfered with their football. They always competed financially and always attract the best players.

Johan Cruijff winning the European Cup with them removed the victimhood status and he managed to imprint his own idea. Catalans are very suspicious of outsiders in general, especially when I was growing up and it was very hard to change the mentality of the club.