Bardsley

[redfromcanada]

Perhaps there has been too much of an emphasis on buying younger players with potential while foregoing the more experienced ones, particularly those over 30. When watching the past few matches, I've noticed a clear lack of shape and organization about the defense. Gary Neville helps bring some of that to the defense. It's not as if the defenders don't have the necessary abilities to play, it's just that their positional sense isn't the greatest and it costs them.

As for the points about John O'Shea from Tony Park and Agent Squirrel, they are absolutely right. You cannot expect to put a young player in different positions and expect them to maintain any sort of consistency or form. This is one of my pet peeves about using Richardson as a left back. Keep him in midfield where he plays best and is his natural position.

As for Bardsley, he is a promising young player who will get better with more experience. Most defenders are not the finished article until they are in their mid to late 20's.

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

Tony if a player is really thaaaat good (Giggs, Edwards etc) then ok you break in the first team. On the other hand you must agree with me that players like Giggs and co are rare, and Fletcher, Bardsley etc are no Giggs and Edwards. They are just average players which may end up being good utility players but will never (or at least it would be extremely difficult) be legends. Why involve them at such age? Wouldnt it be better to loan them (not keeping them in the reserves mind) at other EPL sides where they have to work hard and not be pampered from day 1 as any great player at a big club is? Remember that egos do no good for a young player's development.

Loan systems work with some players and not others......the facts speak for that......Gary Neville and some of the other kids weren't world beaters in their first season...if you look at the history books....Scholes had to wait three seasons before he was able to establish himself.....then he grew into a wonderful gifted first team player....

Thing was......he had a little time because Cole, Cantona et al where scoring and we were winning......

The Class of 1992...did not suddenly all become first team regulars overnight.....they were phased in......they werent world beaters at 21/22 but they developed into them!!!!!! THAT's THE POINT!

Sure Giggs and Best etc are exceptional......but the next level ARE GOOD ENOUGH....under the right circumstances.....so let's look at those first!

I think this is our major problem.....the likes of Fletch, O'Shea, Richardson...have not been phased in......we have such a weak midfield and loads of injuries....they have been thrown to the lions in some respects...

Very little support seems to come from the senior players (watching their own backs?)..and teh fans are looking for blood!!

Picking on the kids is too easy and doesn't stand up to any in depth analysis...

 

[devilish]

From all Fergie Babes that made it at top level the only players which weren’world beaters were Gaz, Butt and Phil. Gaz’s attitude (that was world beater’s level) compensated to that lack + he was played regularly in 1 position in a defense blessed by some of the best leaders in our clubs history. You wont take it easy or be allowed to create an ego if you have Schmicke, Keano, Incey, Bruce and Pallister breathing at your neck.

Unfortunately we are not in a position to offer that luxury to the current crop anymore + the level had gone so high that its more difficult for an inexperienced youngster to break in at this level then it was 10 – 12 years ago..

 

[Mr. MUJAC]

From all Fergie Babes that made it at top level the only players which weren’world beaters were Gaz, Butt and Phil. Gaz’s attitude (that was world beater’s level) compensated to that lack + he was played regularly in 1 position in a defense blessed by some of the best leaders in our clubs history. You wont take it easy or be allowed to create an ego if you have Schmicke, Keano, Incey, Bruce and Pallister breathing at your neck.

Unfortunately we are not in a position to offer that luxury to the current crop anymore + the level had gone so high that its more difficult for an inexperienced youngster to break in at this level then it was 10 – 12 years ago..

I think you get my point...Devil...having those players around Gaz.....and playing him consistently in the same position makes a massive difference.....the kids today DONT have any leaders around them AND are played all over the place....

The biggest problem is that some of the signings made, particularly in midfield, just haven't worked......like Ince and Keane have.....

Personally.......British players (Lampard, Gerrard) tend to have that grit! While some (Makalele is an exception) foreigners (Veron, Kleberson, Djemba)...clearly did not....

As a curiousity, what British player would you have Devil.........?

 

[reelworld]

I think this is our major problem.....the likes of Fletch, O'Shea, Richardson...have not been phased in......we have such a weak midfield and loads of injuries....they have been thrown to the lions in some respects...

Very little support seems to come from the senior players (watching their own backs?)..and teh fans are looking for blood!!

Picking on the kids is too easy and doesn't stand up to any in depth analysis...

Spot on.

To add to the argument, Fletcher played his best football last season when he played alongside Keane.

 

[devilish]

I think you get my point...Devil...having those players around Gaz.....and playing him consistently in the same position makes a massive difference.....the kids today DONT have any leaders around them AND are played all over the place....

The biggest problem is that some of the signings made, particularly in midfield, just haven't worked......like Ince and Keane have.....

Personally.......British players (Lampard, Gerrard) tend to have that grit! While some (Makalele is an exception) foreigners (Veron, Kleberson, Djemba)...clearly did not....

As a curiousity, what British player would you have Devil.........?

Mate I agree with you in 95% of what you have said. We are disagreeing on the details

Gritt and passion is important in anyone's game and while I wont say that these qualities are found only in the British talent (Schmicke, Keano, Davids, Viera, Mattheus, Baresi, Gentile, Gattuso, Mascherano etc did/do have grit despite not being British) I have to say that British talent tend to value this quality more then others.

And there are a myraid number of british players which I would love at OT. Terry, Lampard, Gerrard, Scott Parker and SWP to mention a few. Unfortunately British talent cost too much and we certianly dont afford to spend 20 - 40m to bring in such players

 

[AgentSquirrel]

You cannot keep on playing players which are well past it just for O Shea to learn + while we value the youth academy and its importance we must understand that we are a football team not a kindergarden. A player must be good to play with us.

And where exactly did I say we should keep playing those who are past it? I was making the point that having an experienced defender (one with a brain preferably) as a mentor might have been the difference for O'Shea whereas now he has Ferdinand and Silvestre to aspire to. I don't recall saying Blanc should be signed up again. In fact, I referred to him as past it.
Try responding to my actual post next time rather than ignoring the point and reading into it what you wanted.