Ben White | Arsenal

[WeePat]

According to pretty much any theory on good leadership, criticizing someone openly in front of colleagues is definitely not the way to go. The same would apply to footballers. A quick tip that others can benefit from is definitely a positive, but shouting to someone or having a go at them in front of their colleagues is something that one shouldn't do - I thought that was leadership of the 1900s? Or would you appreciate similar behaviour from your leader?

Depends on the setting. In my work place, no definitely not. Have I been criticised by the coach in front of the team in all the various football and basketball teams I've been a part of over the years? Yeah. Some coaches are abrasive like that, some coaches are put an arm around your shoulder types. Would I have preferred to not get screamed at in front of everyone? Of course, but I wouldn't quit the team because of it unless the coach said something utterly abhorrent to me that I absolutely could not let slide. I also think White wouldn't unless there was something more to this than what that Athletic story and Southgate's quotes are reporting.

People say he just doesn't like football but this what he tweeted after his debut.

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[redshaw]

Summer tournaments get in the way of tanning season.

Scholes said he regretted not playing as much for England but if the environment isn't right or you're not going to be selected I can understand why you'd not want to go jetting around. Some will cling on to the chance of appearing and be next in line.

 

[RuudTom83]

Seem obvious he had a falling out with the manager/assistant and doesn’t want to play for them.

Fair enough.

A separate point, but Southgate picking his faves must have pissed a lot of players off. You can’t blame players for giving up under those circumstances.

 

[Daydreamer]

That was literally the point of my post. There has to be more to it than whatever the Athletic story you linked is reporting because that story made it seem like White just got shouted at a bit and then he decided to pack it in. I was questioning the Athletic. But apparently I just want him to man up and represent ingurland.

That’s how I read it, too. You’ll have to forgive us Arsenal fans, we’ve come out of our banter era and finally have a team consistently challenging for top honours and we’ve all gotten a little excited.

 

[Daydreamer]

Seem obvious he had a falling out with the manager/assistant and doesn’t want to play for them.

Fair enough.

A separate point, but Southgate picking his faves must have pissed a lot of players off. You can’t blame players for giving up under those circumstances.

That’s how I see it. Arsenal scored a goal recently where Saka drew the defence towards him, laid it off to White who whipped in a beautiful ball for Rice to header home with power. (The first of two White assists in the game).

That really should have been happening for England, but Southgate rarely picks on form. I can understand not wanting to be part of it.

 

[didz]

I think that's probably a part of it as well. like you say, he's far down the pecking order for both positions. I think i've heard and read from players before, think Carragher might have been one, that found it hard to go away knowing that you are very unlikely to see much if any playing time. Some players love going away with the national team and are fine with that, other players actually don't really enjoy the experience at all so if your not playing they might think what's the point.

That Athletic article mentioned that Holland's rant was with regard to him not being a "good traveller." I wouldn't be surprised if White kind of just agreed with that take on some level and decided he was better off focusing on Arsenal.

It's not a new phenomenon, having players making up national squads with little prospect of playing, but if you're Ben White and you can play in 3 positions to a really high standard and you still aren't getting a minute, you must wonder what the bloody point is.

 

[Rood]

According to pretty much any theory on good leadership, criticizing someone openly in front of colleagues is definitely not the way to go. The same would apply to footballers. A quick tip that others can benefit from is definitely a positive, but shouting to someone or having a go at them in front of their colleagues is something that one shouldn't do - I thought that was leadership of the 1900s? Or would you appreciate similar behaviour from your leader?

Football (or team sport in general) is not the same as standard workplaces - criticism in front of everyone is pretty standard

I assume you have heard of the Fergie hairdryer?

Although they always say that the best man managers know which players will respond to that and which need an arm around the shoulder, maybe Ben White is the latter

Anyway I don't think he's good enough for Southgate to be making such an effort to have him back - just give someone else a chance if he's not up for it

 

[Donaldo]

That’s how I read it, too. You’ll have to forgive us Arsenal fans, we’ve come out of our banter era and finally have a team consistently challenging for top honours and we’ve all gotten a little excited.

like feck.

 

[Powderfinger]

Seem obvious he had a falling out with the manager/assistant and doesn’t want to play for them.

Fair enough.

A separate point, but Southgate picking his faves must have pissed a lot of players off. You can’t blame players for giving up under those circumstances.

This is really just based off rumor and speculation but I think the issue may be not just Southgate picking his favorites but essentially not appreciating White as a defender. White has played most of his career as a CB, he really should be in contention for those spots in theory along with RB. Yet in the 2021 Euros he was behind not just the starting group but also Tyrone Mings and the rumor is that in the 2022 World Cup he was essentially informed from the start that Eric Dier and Conor Coady were preferred ahead of him. White was one of only three field players not to see a single minute on the field during the Euros and the World Cup was shaping up to be the same story.

I have time for the argument that a player should just suck it up no matter what but, yeah, the manager is going to piss a player like Ben White off if he is burying him not just behind Harry Maguire but also the likes of Mings, Coady, and Dier with seemingly no hope to change that situation. That's not exactly Rio, Terry, and Sol Campbell.

 

[Posh Red]

Yep, and I'm sure Mikel has ripped into White, as probably has Bielsa.

Can you think of any particular reason why he drew the line at Steve Holland? Perhaps the content of the diatribe has something to do with it?

Why is White the only player in the entire squad that’s taken issue with this particular coach? Goes both ways.

 

[Daydreamer]

This is really just based off rumor and speculation but I think the issue may be not just Southgate picking his favorites but essentially not appreciating White as a defender. White has played most of his career as a CB, he really should be in contention for those spots in theory along with RB. Yet in the 2021 Euros he was behind not just the starting group but also Tyrone Mings and the rumor is that in the 2022 World Cup he was essentially informed from the start that Eric Dier and Conor Coady were preferred ahead of him. White was one of only three field players not to see a single minute on the field during the Euros and the World Cup was shaping up to be the same story.

I have time for the argument that a player should just suck it up no matter what but, yeah, the manager is going to piss a player like Ben White off if he is burying him not just behind Harry Maguire but also the likes of Mings, Coady, and Dier with seemingly no hope to change that situation. That's not exactly Rio, Terry, and Sol Campbell.

Yeah, I agree. It feels a little bit like how Scholes was treated (I'm not comparing the quality of the two players - don't @ me) when he was shunted to the left wing.

 

[Maluco]

Why is White the only player in the entire squad that’s taken issue with this particular coach? Goes both ways.

On this point, I don’t think he is. Southgate himself just said that he didn’t disclose other occasions when players “hadn’t made themselves available”, so on that point, there have definitely been issues before. This is just the first one that has gone public.

 

[Donaldo]

Why is White the only player in the entire squad that’s taken issue with this particular coach? Goes both ways.

While we're asking stupid questions, ever wondered why Henderson, Maguire make it to every first XI of his despite being demonstrably worse than at least 5 other players in their position?

 

[Semper Fudge]

Why are Arsenal fans always insufferable?

 

[Daydreamer]

While we're asking stupid questions, ever wondered why Henderson, Maguire make it to every first XI of his despite being demonstrably worse than at least 5 other players in their position?

Really living up to your Caf Vigilante nickname there. Has someone made you mad?

 

[ThierryHenry14]

There are lots of interest from Utd fans on why White doesn't want to be included in England Squad. Trent Alexander-Arnold will be recalled once he recovers from his injury, so England will be well stock in the right back position with Walker and TAA there anyway.

 

[FrankDrebin]

This is a United forum, tbf.

 

[Donaldo]

Really living up to your Caf Vigilante nickname there. Has someone made you mad?

Yeah, Garef and his lying technicolour waistcoat.

 

[saivet]

While we're asking stupid questions, ever wondered why Henderson, Maguire make it to every first XI of his despite being demonstrably worse than at least 5 other players in their position?

What you need to accept is that this is part of international football. Managers of all countries aren't dropping key personnel for relatively inexperienced players on the eve of the tournament. Henderson and Maguire have been fortunate but I think that's more to do with the strength in depth in those positions.

If you look at the RB position, as good as White has been, Walker, Trippier, Trent and James have all played well at a high level at different times. All of them have also been dropped from England squads under Southgate too. It's easier to drop Walker from the squad when not playing if Trippier and Trent are in good form. It's more difficult to drop Maguire from the squad for someone like Konsa or Dunk. The same applies to Henderson, with his competition as a more defensive minded midfielder. This isn't even considering their characters and role they might play in the dressing room too.

 

[Donaldo]

What you need to accept is that this is part of international football. Managers of all countries aren't dropping key personnel for relatively inexperienced players on the eve of the tournament. Henderson and Maguire have been fortunate but I think that's more to do with the strength in depth in those positions.

If you look at the RB position, as good as White has been, Walker, Trippier, Trent and James have all played well at a high level at different times. All of them have also been dropped from England squads under Southgate too. It's easier to drop Walker from the squad when not playing if Trippier and Trent are in good form. It's more difficult to drop Maguire from the squad for someone like Konsa or Dunk. The same applies to Henderson, with his competition as a more defensive minded midfielder. This isn't even considering their characters and role they might play in the dressing room too.

It isn't about White being picked. I'm beyond happy he told Gareth to stuff it. It's about Southgate being a lying coward very happy to throw players under the bus.

 

[saivet]

It isn't about White being picked. I'm beyond happy he told Gareth to stuff it. It's about Southgate being a lying coward very happy to throw players under the bus.

What did you want Southgate to say? Honestly, in this situation, I don't think Southgate has done anything wrong.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

There are lots of interest from Utd fans on why White doesn't want to be included in England Squad. Trent Alexander-Arnold will be recalled once he recovers from his injury, so England will be well stock in the right back position with Walker and TAA there anyway.

Really.. you think? On a Man Utd forum?

 

[duffer]

What did you want Southgate to say? Honestly, in this situation, I don't think Southgate has done anything wrong.

"He's a grumpy, orange tit and I can't be arsed to deal with, or have my coaches deal with any hassle whatsoever from the 4th choice right back".

 

[GoonerBear]

"He's a grumpy, orange tit and I can't be arsed to deal with, or have my coaches deal with any hassle whatsoever from the 4th choice right back".

No need to bring sectarianism into it squire.

 

[PoTMS]

Regardless of whatever is going on with him and England, it's clear the bloke is a weirdo.

 

[GoonerBear]

Regardless of whatever is going on with him and England, it's clear the bloke is a weirdo.

We should be embracing peoples differences and eccentricities in this day and age, not calling them weirdo’s.

 

[Posh Red]

While we're asking stupid questions, ever wondered why Henderson, Maguire make it to every first XI of his despite being demonstrably worse than at least 5 other players in their position?

Sorry

 

[Dan_F]

Football takes itself way too seriously. How are people caring whether someone wants to play for England or not.

 

[mu4c_20le]

Yep, and I'm sure Mikel has ripped into White, as probably has Bielsa.

Can you think of any particular reason why he drew the line at Steve Holland? Perhaps the content of the diatribe has something to do with it?

Diatribe some imagination you've got there. The Athletic reported that he felt White was not taking training seriously during a tactics analysis session.

 

[Stadjer]

Seems like Ben White his decision not to play for England caused quite the media storm?

Im not even English but for some reason i know Harry Redknapp was 'fuming'. Someone named Jeff Stelling apparently slams because Ben White his wife posted a picture of her and Ben White playing a game of Uno on a Dubai beach while England lost to Brazil.

It isnt even like England is short on right backs. Seems like a lot of fuss about someone who might not even be a starter?

 

[TheGame]

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Should yellow card those who do that kind of thing. Cheating of the highest order and just outright cnutish behaviour.

 

[Donaldo]

That was obviously a throat punch from the Matrix.

 

[Donaldo]

Interesting bump though. White does shenanigans most games, if you're interested.

He's also one of the best full backs in the league at the moment, so I get over it usually.

 

[CannonBalls]

Interesting bump though. White does shenanigans most games, if you're interested.

He's also one of the best full backs in the league at the moment, so I get over it usually.

He is the master of dark arts in our team and a bellend merchant.
Actually like that as he and Havertz are the only one who does these kind of things. You need these guys around the other nice guys aswell.

 

[TheGame]

Interesting bump though. White does shenanigans most games, if you're interested.

He's also one of the best full backs in the league at the moment, so I get over it usually.

Just seen it on social media. Certainly one of the most consistent players in the league this season. Been solid at RB.

 

[Remember the geese]

Their back 4 is really good. It reminds me of a lesser version of ours from '08. Keeper is decent but no VDS, Saliba as the classy Rio wannabe, Gabriel as a poor man's Vidic and White as their orange man at right back. Need a decent Evra alternative though.

 

[rajds89]

Arsenal fans can dress it up however they like but this bloke is a cheating cnut who should be not just embarrassed after yesterdays performance but also called out by the fa for being a grade a bellend.

 

[Brophs]

A good man fighting back against the Southgatification of the modern game. 9/10.

 

[duffer]

Should be charged by the league or the FA or punished by Arsenal. It this isn't "bringing the game into disrepute" then nothing is.