Berbatov

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I'd have liked to see him play under Pep. A team with possesion. I wonder how he would end up playing.

When you consider that Pep went for Zlatan at Barcelona, maybe whilst Berbatov was a less clinical player, he was also hell alot smoother.
 

meamth

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I'd have liked to see him play under Pep. A team with possesion. I wonder how he would end up playing.

When you consider that Pep went for Zlatan at Barcelona, maybe whilst Berbatov was a less clinical player, he was also hell alot smoother.
I doubt that he is less clinical, Berba tends to play from deep, he is more like deep lying forward (which is dead position nowadays). He was that kind of forward who likes to assist as much as scoring goals.

But when Berba gets a 1 v 1/half chances, he rarely missed.
 

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I doubt that he is less clinical, Berba tends to play from deep, he is more like deep lying forward (which is dead position nowadays). He was that kind of forward who likes to assist as much as scoring goals.

But when Berba gets a 1 v 1/half chances, he rarely missed.
I know. It's kind of why I wonder how he would have played as a creative false 9 as a deep lying forward for Barcelona under Guardiola.

I think he would have been a really good player for a plan B to Messi without changing the tactics too much; have some aerial presence etc without changing the formation, have that creative ability of the central player that gets the best out of players like David Villa out wide whilst still having some clinical ability to finish chances themselves.

Watching some of his goals as well, the flicks, the bicycle kicks, the volleys - I wonder how well it would have looked finishing off tiki-taka football.

Gives me a bit of goosebumps thinking about it.
 

meamth

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I know. It's kind of why I wonder how he would have played as a creative false 9 as a deep lying forward for Barcelona under Guardiola.

I think he would have been a really good player for a plan B to Messi without changing the tactics too much; have some aerial presence etc without changing the formation, have that creative ability of the central player that gets the best out of players like David Villa out wide whilst still having some clinical ability to finish chances themselves.

Watching some of his goals as well, the flicks, the bicycle kicks, the volleys - I wonder how well it would have looked finishing off tiki-taka football.

Gives me a bit of goosebumps thinking about it.
He is not shy exchanging difficult quick one-twos as well. He could be brilliant in that team. We'll never know, but I love that fantasy. He could be the Busquets of forwards feeding off Messi!
 

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I think Berba got a bit of a rough treatment from Fergie. The latter probably lost faith in him after our season fell apart in 09-10 after Rooney’s injury and Berba didn’t perform in his absence. Had to rely on him the season after when Rooney had his contract episode, and he saw drastically reduced playtime after Rooney was back into the fold, even bloody Owen was on the bench in CL final ahead of him. Spent 11/12 on the bench before being sold, despite scoring 7 goals in 5 games or sth like that during the winter months.
 

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An uncharacteristically older signing from a big PL club who was top scorer and best player in a record-breaking title-winning season and is remembered mostly for that season. Didn't do anything in Europe that year (or at all, really) and tailed off quite badly after scoring his 18th league goal in late January, only managing a couple of major contributions in the run-in. Still, got the golden boot and we won the title, so that poor run shouldn't take too much away from a glorious season. That season aside, his brief career at United was a mixed affair with some great moments and some real lows.

Dimitar Berbatov...or Robin Van Persie?
 

meamth

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An uncharacteristically older signing from a big PL club who was top scorer and best player in a record-breaking title-winning season and is remembered mostly for that season. Didn't do anything in Europe that year (or at all, really) and tailed off quite badly after scoring his 18th league goal in late January, only managing a couple of major contributions in the run-in. Still, got the golden boot and we won the title, so that poor run shouldn't take too much away from a glorious season. That season aside, his brief career at United was a mixed affair with some great moments and some real lows.

Dimitar Berbatov...or Robin Van Persie?
RVP is a clutch level player. (One of the greatest striker in PL history)
Berba is just another elite striker.
 
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RVP is a clutch level player. (One of the greatest striker in PL history)
Berba is just another elite striker.
I wouldn’t call Berba an elite striker.

RVP was on another level. For two years, his last at Arsenal and first with us he was one of the best players in the world. Berbatov was never near that level. RVP drove us to that last title.

@Chabon - I can’t imagine there’s anyone who would choose Berbatov over RVP
 

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There’s a comparison to be made that overall, RvP and Berbatov contributed about the same towards our trophy cabinet while they were here. Our 10-11 league form was worse though, home form was spotless (18W-1D) but we struggled to win away all season and as a result could only seal the league in match day 36 after beating Chelsea at home, and ended up with a quite low tally of 80 pts.
 

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I think signing Berbatov was Fergie reacting to Ronaldo's inevitable departure in a way that seemed logical to him from past experience. Ronaldo's breakthrough as a hugely prolific forward from wide positions convinced Fergie to set aside his preferred system and build a new one which suited Ronaldo. Once it was clear Ronaldo was going, I think Fergie was looking to emulate one of the things that brought so much success in the late 90s/early 2000s - 'traditional' wingers feeding a group of central strikers whose distinctive styles faciliated a variety of tactical tweaks on his preferred 4-4-2 when the situation called for it.

Without commenting on whether it was right or wrong, I think the above explains a lot of our transfer strategy from 2008 - 2011 - buying Berbatov, selling Tevez, bringing in Valencia and later Hernandez (with Owen as a stop-gap). I think Fergie saw Tevez as being too similar to Rooney whilst Berbatov brought different skills into the squad and offered a different tactical option. Similarly, bringing in Hernandez - a different kind of striker again, in 2010 to round out the group, all whilst giving the wingers more traditional roles which were more about creating than scoring.
 

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I wouldn’t call Berba an elite striker.

RVP was on another level. For two years, his last at Arsenal and first with us he was one of the best players in the world. Berbatov was never near that level. RVP drove us to that last title.

@Chabon - I can’t imagine there’s anyone who would choose Berbatov over RVP
I was being a little facetious, and certainly RVP was a better player overall (the best 9 in the world when we signed him), but their contributions at United are undoubtedly very similar. They even both scored the exact same number of league goals for United (48). Van Persie did so at a marginally better rate, but he also took penalties where Berbatov tended not to.

As a result it's weird to me that RVP is usually held up as some all-time great signing while Berbatov is often derided as a flop. Personally I'd say their brief United careers were on a par, with Van Persie having obviously been the better player overall.
 

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Would go as far to say he was one of the most natural footballers i have ever seen at united, lacked top work ethic i think which could have took him to the elite level, as good as he done here cant help but think i would rather have kept Tevez then the signing of Berbatov.
 

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Would go as far to say he was one of the most natural footballers i have ever seen at united, lacked top work ethic i think which could have took him to the elite level, as good as he done here cant help but think i would rather have kept Tevez then the signing of Berbatov.
Tevez is a cnut and chose money over United. Why would you want a player like that?

United made a bid and offered him a contract, but City just gave him double what he deserved during that time.
 
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I was being a little facetious, and certainly RVP was a better player overall (the best 9 in the world when we signed him), but their contributions at United are undoubtedly very similar. They even both scored the exact same number of league goals for United (48). Van Persie did so at a marginally better rate, but he also took penalties where Berbatov tended not to.

As a result it's weird to me that RVP is usually held up as some all-time great signing while Berbatov is often derided as a flop. Personally I'd say their brief United careers were on a par, with Van Persie having obviously been the better player overall.
interesting take on it. RVP unfortunately went back to being injury prone, and of course played under the complete tool that was Moyes.

one of the big differences was RVP was instantly the main man, whereas Berbatov came into an already brilliant strike force. Perhaps if the situation has been different, we might have seen Berbatov in a different light. I certainty don’t think he would have had the impact the RVP had on the team, but if he played when we weren’t so strong, perhaps it would have been different.
 

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Berbatov is a classy guy, exceptionally talented but I have to say it... I was almost always hugely frustrated with him whenever he played.

I think it's just a case of what do you like as a fan watching. I could never warm to his languid style, I prefer a more dynamic style of player who will influence themselves on the game regardless, that said I can fully appreciate people liking his touches/skills and that style.

I don't think he would have lasted long in this current team under the pressure we are at the moment, I remember a lot of people shared my frustration with him when he played in those Fergie teams, I fear the same style under Ole with us clambering back towards top 4 he would struggle to cement a place. Then I could be talking through my arse because Martial has the same sort of languid games for us quite often (see Everton game.)
 

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Yes Ruck but Berba is very different from Martial. He rarely loses possession easily. Once he gets the ball he holds it very well and he can create chances for others. He is very good defensively too and is very good in the air. I love to watch him play. His first touch is the best I have seen. In a diamond with Bruno behind him and a CF in front of him Berba would be brilliant. Don't worry about his pressing. He does do it when he sees it's going to have an effect. What he doesn't do is do things for the sake of doing it.
 

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Berbatov is a classy guy, exceptionally talented but I have to say it... I was almost always hugely frustrated with him whenever he played.

I think it's just a case of what do you like as a fan watching. I could never warm to his languid style, I prefer a more dynamic style of player who will influence themselves on the game regardless, that said I can fully appreciate people liking his touches/skills and that style.

I don't think he would have lasted long in this current team under the pressure we are at the moment, I remember a lot of people shared my frustration with him when he played in those Fergie teams, I fear the same style under Ole with us clambering back towards top 4 he would struggle to cement a place. Then I could be talking through my arse because Martial has the same sort of languid games for us quite often (see Everton game.)
The frustrations is mental back then, but I've seen worse abuse on Pogba.

Pogba is just another episode of Berbatov, only difference is Pogba's expectations are way way higher. I could understand the frustration.
 

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Berbatov has always done much better than Pogba does. He also never flirts with other clubs. He rarely loses possession and concedes goals or penalties like Pogba.
 

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Tevez is a cnut and chose money over United. Why would you want a player like that?

United made a bid and offered him a contract, but City just gave him double what he deserved during that time.
think your needing to go do some research, United were not willing to pay the then british transfer record his agent wanted for him, he only went to city as they paid the highest fee, simply he was a better player then Berbatov and suited our style at the time alot more.
 

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think your needing to go do some research, United were not willing to pay the then british transfer record his agent wanted for him, he only went to city as they paid the highest fee, simply he was a better player then Berbatov and suited our style at the time alot more.
His agent/owner wanted too much money. United were not willing to play ball. But since he had a lot of control over Tevez, he was able to push very hard. Once it didn't work out, City were happy to put salt in the wound.

Apart from that,

He scored 5 league goals in 29 games in his second season at United. A total of 15 goals in 51 games that season, not a particularly great return given his form the previous season.

Ferguson was also very misty-eyed over Berbatov, evidently felt with Tevez's previous season form he needed to shake things up a bit. I think Ferguson saw something of Cantona in Berbatov and was massively determined to sign him.

There's also evident from Gary Neville that he downed tools during the 2nd season.

EDIT:
Add to all of that, Tevez (not appreciating the club's mystique), ridiculous transfer fees, wages, Fergie prepared for the inevitable and signed Berba before something bad would happen.
Who could blame Fergie? Berba was one of the elite forward in the PL during that time, and he was available, might as well take the punt and top up the squad.

In two seasons, he lost Tevez, and then Ronaldo, Berba was the top forward available at the time. People tend to forget that important development why we eventually signed Berba.
 
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Tomuś

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We get all sorts of threads which eventually lead to 'Tevez was better, should've kept him' annually. And each year I cringe reading the inevitable revisionism about Tevez's time here. Yes, he did score a few important goals in his first season and was a good presser but as far as ability goes he really wasn't anything special in his time here. He clicked at City, at least for a period of time and then yes, he looked awesome. Skillful, quick as hell, prolific.

At United he almost looked cumbersome at times. I remember being frustrated with his pace too, as I had been told he's rapid beforehand. Numbers were far from great, too. Made up for it with his pressing though and perhaps gave a better vibe than Berbatov the languid, moody artist.

That saying, Berbatov (one of my favourites) wasn't the same player for us he'd been for Spurs himself. Great match with Robbie Keane.
 

berbatrick

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In 3 games yes. Chicharito scored more important goals that season
:lol:
We absolutely struggled without him that season.

He scored 19 in the 24 starts he got which is a genuine golden boot ratio, even if it was uneven (spread over 11 games; even then 11 scoring games in 24 is a much better-looking ratio than 11 in 38).

And he improved the team as a whole. In those 24 starts we scored 53 and in the remaining 14, including with Rooney-Hernandez played consistently at the end of the season, there were only 11 goals scored. (I'm not counting goals scored when he was subbed off for the first or after he was subbed on for the second.).
Basically when he was on the pitch we scored 61 goals and without him only 17 in the whole season.
 

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His agent/owner wanted too much money. United were not willing to play ball. But since he had a lot of control over Tevez, he was able to push very hard. Once it didn't work out, City were happy to put salt in the wound.

Apart from that,

He scored 5 league goals in 29 games in his second season at United. A total of 15 goals in 51 games that season, not a particularly great return given his form the previous season.

Ferguson was also very misty-eyed over Berbatov, evidently felt with Tevez's previous season form he needed to shake things up a bit. I think Ferguson saw something of Cantona in Berbatov and was massively determined to sign him.

There's also evident from Gary Neville that he downed tools during the 2nd season.

EDIT:
Add to all of that, Tevez (not appreciating the club's mystique), ridiculous transfer fees, wages, Fergie prepared for the inevitable and signed Berba before something bad would happen.
Who could blame Fergie? Berba was one of the elite forward in the PL during that time, and he was available, might as well take the punt and top up the squad.

In two seasons, he lost Tevez, and then Ronaldo, Berba was the top forward available at the time. People tend to forget that important development why we eventually signed Berba.
think you basically just repeated what i said regarding the fee and wages, no it wasnt a great return but he wasnt in the side half as much and simply when him Rooney and Ronaldo played together there were dynamite, would even go as far as say that team was United's greatest ever side, Berbatov was never an elite striker, that was the problem.
 

MikeeMike

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Berbatov was unreal at times.

The issue with him was he came 12 months before the penny pinching started.

He should have been the focal point of the post Ronaldo/Tevez side with 3/4 world class players coming in during the summer of 09. Instead, he was often the scapegoat for our slow decline after that summer.
Agree totally. One of a select group of players who could do stuff unattainable by most. His first touch for example, I can watch youtube videos of that over and over.
 

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Berbatov, such a „weird“ United player. Sometimes I even forget that he actually played for us even though he was such a good player. Still he just doesn’t have the same importance for me as Eric/Ruud/Ronaldo/Rooney/RvP/Tevez (I know many will disagree that I am putting Tevez there but in 2007/08 his contributions were just priceless in my opinion). Somehow Berbatov doesn’t even have the same importance for me as our strikers just below the very top level (Cole, Yorke, Ole, Pea).
I can’t really explain it, I didn’t even dislike him.
Also I can understand why RvP was perceived more important in 2012/13 than Berbatov in 2010/11. RvP won us more points (he scored more crucial goals than Berba). Berba also scored some crucial goals, but at the same time scoring 5 goals against Blackburn still only gets you 3 points.
Still he was good enough in 2010/11.
And in 2008/09 he scored almost as many crucial goals as Macheda! Which made me happy enough as losing the title to Benitez‘ Liverpool would have been a nightmare!
 

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think you basically just repeated what i said regarding the fee and wages, no it wasnt a great return but he wasnt in the side half as much and simply when him Rooney and Ronaldo played together there were dynamite, would even go as far as say that team was United's greatest ever side, Berbatov was never an elite striker, that was the problem.
He is an elite striker, not world class.

Playing at the highest level, scoring goals for fun in PL...he is one of the elite.
 

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Hattrick vs Pool with an overhead kick. Amazing player, upset that he got schtick towards the end of his term.
 

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think your needing to go do some research, United were not willing to pay the then british transfer record his agent wanted for him, he only went to city as they paid the highest fee, simply he was a better player then Berbatov and suited our style at the time alot more.
I think you might be misremembering or more likely you are confusing it with another transfer mate. United were willing to offer the contract to Tevez and pay the fee to his agent as was agreed at the start of his loan two years previously in 2007. But Tevez and his agent reneged on the agreement and went to City for probably double the money.

"Following contact received from Carlos Tevez's advisors last night, in advance of the deadline the club set for concluding negotiations, Manchester United announces that Carlos will not be signing a new contract with the club," read a statement on the club's official website. "The club agreed to pay the option price of £25.5m and offered Carlos a five-year contract which would have made him one of its highest paid players. "Disappointingly however, his advisors informed the club that, despite the success he has enjoyed during one of the Club's most successful periods, he does not wish to continue playing for Manchester United. "The club would like to thank Carlos for his services over the last two seasons and wishes him good luck for the future."
https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/5390010/tevez-rejects-united-offer

Research indeed.
 
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stevoc

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And Solskjær has won it!
Berbatov, such a „weird“ United player. Sometimes I even forget that he actually played for us even though he was such a good player. Still he just doesn’t have the same importance for me as Eric/Ruud/Ronaldo/Rooney/RvP/Tevez (I know many will disagree that I am putting Tevez there but in 2007/08 his contributions were just priceless in my opinion). Somehow Berbatov doesn’t even have the same importance for me as our strikers just below the very top level (Cole, Yorke, Ole, Pea).
I can’t really explain it, I didn’t even dislike him.
Also I can understand why RvP was perceived more important in 2012/13 than Berbatov in 2010/11. RvP won us more points (he scored more crucial goals than Berba). Berba also scored some crucial goals, but at the same time scoring 5 goals against Blackburn still only gets you 3 points.
Still he was good enough in 2010/11.
And in 2008/09 he scored almost as many crucial goals as Macheda! Which made me happy enough as losing the title to Benitez‘ Liverpool would have been a nightmare!
Its subjective of course who was a better player for United Tevez in his one good season or Cole in his 7-8 seasons. For me it's Cole though i have no problem with someone having a different opinion on that front. But surely even the biggest Tevez fan can't really think that Tevez was a more important player who contributed more to United than Andy Cole?

In fact in terms of contribution and importance Yorke and Solskjaer are way ahead of Tevez too in my opinion. Yorke in his first season for United in 98/99 hit a level Tevez never did anywhere in his career, and certainly not at United in his first year in 07/08.
 

Striker10

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I think you might have made that up or more likely you are confusing it with another transfer mate. United were willing to offer the contract to Tevez and pay the fee to his agent as was agreed at the start of his loan two years previously in 2007. But Tevez and his agent reneged on the agreement and went to City for probably double the money.



https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11667/5390010/tevez-rejects-united-offer

Research indeed.
He left because he knew Rooney was number one and then when you sign Berbatov for that money.........he had pride/ego and cut his losses. He was begging us to get his contract done during the first season. If we had, he would have signed.
 

united_99

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Its subjective of course who was a better player for United Tevez in his one good season or Cole in his 7-8 seasons. For me it's Cole though i have no problem with someone having a different opinion on that front. But surely even the biggest Tevez fan can't really think that Tevez was a more important player who contributed more to United than Andy Cole?

In fact in terms of contribution and importance Yorke and Solskjaer are way ahead of Tevez too in my opinion. Yorke in his first season for United in 98/99 hit a level Tevez never did anywhere in his career, and certainly not at United in his first year in 07/08.
Oh I definitely agree, the divide in the groups was based on ability and I feel Tevez was more talented than the strikers I have put in Tier 2. Maybe he was somewhere between 1 and 2.
I liked Tevez a lot (still it was clear that he received much more money from City which we were right not to give him).
In 2007/08 he was a great player and at the same time very committed, the following year he was a different player and he didn’t turn back to a permanent hardworking professional player at City either. Preferred playing golf in Argentina than playing for them.
However if he didn’t have the contract issue with us I would have kept him and not signed Berbatov.
 

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He left because he knew Rooney was number one and then when you sign Berbatov for that money.........he had pride/ego and cut his losses. He was begging us to get his contract done during the first season. If we had, he would have signed.
This is Tevez we're talking about.

Moved to China and had disciplinary problems, retired national duty early...

This is serial mercenary, it's more believable his motivation wasn't his importance to the club, but the money.

You seriously want a Mercenary who has no affection towards the club? He is not a United player.
 

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Aye, for all this talking about Tevez the warrior and Berbatov the moody artist it turned out only one of them cared and still does.
 

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I'd have liked to see him play under Pep. A team with possesion. I wonder how he would end up playing.

When you consider that Pep went for Zlatan at Barcelona, maybe whilst Berbatov was a less clinical player, he was also hell alot smoother.
I think he'd have suffered the same fate under Pep as Ozil has under Arteta. Ozil is a very similar player to Berbatov, and Arteta is a very similar player to Pep, so I think that answers your question to some degree.
 

lsd

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Aye, for all this talking about Tevez the warrior and Berbatov the moody artist it turned out only one of them cared and still does.

It's caring when they played matters. No one can say Tevez never gave everything he had when he played. Berbatov not so much.

It's weird hearing Berbatov now as he seems such a genuine fan i wonder does he have some regret he never achieved what he should have done at United.

However as talented as he was he just never really did enough to prove his worth
 

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It's caring when they played matters. No one can say Tevez never gave everything he had when he played. Berbatov not so much.

It's weird hearing Berbatov now as he seems such a genuine fan i wonder does he have some regret he never achieved what he should have done at United.

However as talented as he was he just never really did enough to prove his worth
Yeah I expected more. Seeing Tevez at City also made me reconsider his stay here, though.
 
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I’m divided on Tevez. On one hand it might have been brilliant for United, took on a player with no risk, he did well, and then me moved on when no longer needed.

on the other hand, it might have been a missed opportunity for us to keep a good player for a further 3-4 years - but only if we were able to keep him motivated, under control and without influence from his agent.

If he had gone anywhere apart from City (or Liverpool), i would probably be deffo the former.
 

lsd

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Yeah I expected more. Seeing Tevez at City also made me reconsider his stay here, though.

I was really excited when we signed Berbatov as i was sure he was going to City i remember watching him appear at old trafford on Sky News and thinking how big it was for him to choose us over knowing the players we already had upfront.

However it was just flashes of brilliance of what could have been and all to many periods of watching him do very little. The failure of him not adapting his game bothered me as he seemed to think he shouldn't have to change his ways suggesting we knew what type of player he was when he came and that was that.

Ok true but better players than him have come and they all understood that they now had to do more to be a real success at the club.
 

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I'd have liked to see him play under Pep. A team with possesion. I wonder how he would end up playing.
He would've ended up on the bench as Pep always requires his number 9 to press high up the pitch, which Berba never did. He even fell out with Agüero before he started doing that, ffs. And I love Berba by the way.
 

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And Solskjær has won it!
He left because he knew Rooney was number one and then when you sign Berbatov for that money.........he had pride/ego and cut his losses. He was begging us to get his contract done during the first season. If we had, he would have signed.
I don't think that was really possible, the complex structure of the deal and the hoops United had to jump through just to get him registered because of his unusual 3rd party ownership probably meant United would have always had to wait until the end of the 2 year deal and then pay the agreed fee.

And even if the club could have triggered the signing early, i don't know i always had the feeling Ferguson wasn't too sure about Tevez and always wanted Berbatov instead.