It's absolutely baffling how this keeps happening in the PL. The likes of Pardew, Allardyce, Pulis, Moyes etc. all constantly get jobs despite their many failings.
Big Sam to Everton
- Thread starter TheReligion
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Considering the money thrown in the EPL these days I can't understand why the likes of Tuchel or Blanc wouldn't be a viable option. Rafa is a far bigger name then the two and he went for Newcastle who had been in a worse shape then Everton for years.
Maybe not poor, just mediocre for what the level EPL would be supposed to have?
And don't get me wrong, there's nothing wrong with that kind of mediocre manager that earns a living saving teams from relegation, the problem I see in the Premier is that there's too many of those "mediocre tested men who saved people from relegation" style.
The sad thing I ferl we will never again see a British manager in one of the top jobs ( united , City , Arsenal , Chelsea , Liverpool , Spurs ) .
There is no possible progression in place for " successful "managers . Look at the like of Eddie Howe , Sean dyche , Chris Hughton all doing a fantastic job with there clubs but when they are overlooked for the Everton job in favour of a dinosaur like Allardyce what chance do these managers have to progress ? They will never have a chance at a major club unless they can perform miracles at a prem 2nd tier club but if they can't get a look in for Everton they simply have no chance to progress and as I say we will never again have a British manager in charge of one of our " super " clubs .
Anyone of the 3 I mention would have been a much better forward thinking option than Allardyce but it is obvious that there is just nowhere for these guys to go .
There is no possible progression in place for " successful "managers . Look at the like of Eddie Howe , Sean dyche , Chris Hughton all doing a fantastic job with there clubs but when they are overlooked for the Everton job in favour of a dinosaur like Allardyce what chance do these managers have to progress ? They will never have a chance at a major club unless they can perform miracles at a prem 2nd tier club but if they can't get a look in for Everton they simply have no chance to progress and as I say we will never again have a British manager in charge of one of our " super " clubs .
Anyone of the 3 I mention would have been a much better forward thinking option than Allardyce but it is obvious that there is just nowhere for these guys to go .
What are these 'constant failures' of his?
- Got Bolton promoted to the PL, took them in to Europe within 4 seasons
- Hardly failed at Newcastle, left with them pretty much in the same position he took them over in, turned out the squad was wank and they got relegated the next year
- Basically got muscled out of Blackburn by Steve Kean and his Venky's connections despite actually doing a decent job. Kean subsequently got them relegated the next season
- Took West Ham back to the PL and established them in mid-table, left more due to fans moaning about style of football than results
- Somehow kept Sunderland up
- Kept Palace up
I think people are harsh on him. His sides play decent football at times. People make out he has giants in attack and does long balls. Defoe is hardly a giant.
He isn't mediocre either.
I suppose nobody thinks Sam is a poor manager, they just feel he can only take a team so far and that's it.
Actually, unlike the other wasters like Moyes and Pardew, Sam has always said that if he was given a chance, he would try to take a club to the next level. Whether that is overrating himself or not, atleast it shows he does want a chance. Perhaps Everton may give him a platform to do something significant and I think if he is comfortable enough, he will try it.
Actually, unlike the other wasters like Moyes and Pardew, Sam has always said that if he was given a chance, he would try to take a club to the next level. Whether that is overrating himself or not, atleast it shows he does want a chance. Perhaps Everton may give him a platform to do something significant and I think if he is comfortable enough, he will try it.
Right man for the job, he will leave them in a much better position to where he found them,with the ability to get a bigger name manager, with a good budget behind him, can get them to play some ok stuff. Look at his Bolton side with Jay-Jay it wasn’t unpleasant on the eye
I don't understand how Everton having a poor season reflects the quality of teams outside the top 6 though.
Jeez.
A team that generally gives the top 6 a game is having a hard time and is becoming fodder. Everton was cited as an example, look at the likes of Crystal Palace, West Brom, even Southampton and Leicester (despite their recent win against Spurs). None of them are as strong as they were.
I think he will turn them around for a season and it will be interesting to see how he does it and what changes.
Sooo, not so long ago, Hodgson was at West Brom, Pardew was at Palace, Moyes was at Everton and Allardyce was at West Ham.
You see where I'm going with this...
You see where I'm going with this...
It's more a statement of defeat by the owners, Big Sam is a great relegation fodder manager. He'll put a good structure in place and has a good track record of keeping teams up (Sunderland, CPFC) but if you're an Everton fan you're not exactly excited. Why weren't they after a good mid table manager, even from abroad like Southampton had done with Poch? Even an audacious season long deal for Ancelotti or Blanc or even, dare I say it, LVG?
Piss poor summer recruitment has taken it's toll on them.
Piss poor summer recruitment has taken it's toll on them.
The average Joe carousel continues
Thing with Big Sam is that he's starting to believe his own hype. He's beginning to think he's better than he actually is from the way he talks about himself and his achievements when doing his punditry. Still it can't be worse than Unsworth I guess.
Southampton and Leicester have more points this season than they had at this point last season.Jeez.
A team that generally gives the top 6 a game is having a hard time and is becoming fodder. Everton was cited as an example, look at the likes of Crystal Palace, West Brom, even Southampton and Leicester (despite their recent win against Spurs). None of them are as strong as they were.
Everton and Palace are worse this season.
West Brom were awful in the second half of last season, they are just continuing their terrible form.
Burnley and Watford have improved this season.
There is little to no change with teams like Swansea, West Ham, Stoke, Bournemouth.
The promoted sides (Huddersfield, Brighton, Newcastle) are doing better this season than the 3 teams relegated last season were doing.
Cannot see this being long term. Hope I am wrong because I like Big Sam. But they just want him to steady the ship and then bring in someone else.
he does what he says on the tin, i.e. keeps you up. Everton cannot afford to go down. They've a new wealthy investor, a new ground coming. Big Sam will keep them up. He apparently wants assurances of longer term contract, 2-3 yrs. He's in the driving seat here as Everton are in trouble. I feel they will give him it, but still let him go at end of the season. The money they will save just staying in pl and not getting relegated will offset any compensation he would be owed.Hope I am wrong, I'd like to see Big Sam maybe get back to his Bolton days. That team was tough but could also play attacking football. Everton have the likes of Coleman and Barkley to come back, plus I'm sure they will splash out in Jan
Points do not matter compared to their regressing playing style (Southampton) or the fact that they lost to all of the top 6 bar Spurs (Leicester). We are talking about their performance against the top 6, not against other teams. Of course they are stronger than other teams in the 14. The number of points vis-a-vis actual performance depends on the season, just as 75 points in one season is good, but in another season gets you 5th place.
Precisely. A downward spiral that reduced 3 clubs to non-entities. Generally they used to atleast give it a go.
Said that already.
Swansea are far easier to beat as compared to two seasons ago. West Ham had a good record against top teams in Bilic's first season. Stoke and Bournemouth have remained as usual neither here nor there, though Bournemouth perhaps are even a bit worse off than before.
Makes no difference to the fact that they all bend over to the top 6. Huddersfield beat us, but that was of our own making.
The whole point of my post is that the 14 teams no longer put up a good fight against the top teams. Not how they do against each other.
Moyes at Everton was a better run than anything Big Sam has done in his career.
Poor manager no where close, I don't particularly like the man but he will turn Everton round. He's unfashionable so people draw that to being poor.
Results against the top 6 is not the best barometer to the quality of certain teams. It is clear to anyone that the top 6 have improved over the past few seasons. As well as that, the results don't back up your point. The top 6 have had the same results so far this season as they had at this point last season.
Watford have drawn against Liverpool, beat Arsenal.
Stoke have beaten Arsenal
Burnley have beaten Chelsea, drew to Tottenham, drew to Liverpool
Crystal Palace beat Chelsea,
Huddersfield win against United doesn't count because it doesn't fit your narrative.
Newcastle drew to Liverpool,
Swansea drew to Tottenham,
West Brom drew to Tottenham
Leicester beat Tottenham.
Go through the past few seasons and you'll see that this is fairly standard.
This is going to be my last reply because we are pretty far off topic, it's an interesting thread idea though.
Maybe they could try managing abroad? experience some different tactics, learn a foreign language, build some contacts, achieve some success, experience playing in Europe and therefore making themself more attractive to a big English club? I agree that your options may have been better than Allardyce, however, I would also say that Dyche appears to be cut from the same cloth as Allardyce, Hughton isn't young and has been sacked on a few occasions and Howe, well who knows how good he could be elsewhere as everything has been achieved at Bournemouth.
Hypothetically, Howe goes to Lyon/Schalke/Benfica and takes them into the Europa Cup. He gets them to the semi-finals where they play well. He then moves to Milan/Valencia where he gets them to the CL semi-finals. I would suggest he would then be attractive for one of our top six. Would he leave his PL comfort blanket? Who knows but that seems to be the 'progression' for managers in this era.
Why didnt Everton go after Pardew?
It's nothing new, and Allardyce himself was in the same situation so maybe they'll have to wait until they are of a similar age too.
He did more at Bolton than any of them have done with their teams, got the Newcastle job and was binned off within 6 months despite improving them. Only a slight improvement, mind. Since then he's only ever been given the job of managing teams in a crisis and has achieved their objectives.
Why would anyone rate Pardew higher than Sam, Pardew is probably the only manager I can't stand even looking at.
They're about the same?
Everton are a bigger club than any team Sam managed, for any considerable length of time. Honestly some members on here have no idea.
Sam again 
Has Howe signed any more extensions with Bournemouth? I thought this would be the ideal club to try and advance his CV.
Has Howe signed any more extensions with Bournemouth? I thought this would be the ideal club to try and advance his CV.
I agree with that but that doesn't necessarily make Moyes a better manager.
Allardyce did a great job with Bolton.
We're singing the same song, I meant that Moyes had the easier job, I don't particularly like Sam but he's a good coach at what he does. He's done more in my eyes than Moyes.
Oh gotcha, my bad! And I agree.
I think both Howe and Dyche do have a good chance of getting better clubs. I also think Houghton might too if Brighton do well. See what happens next summer.
Because Alardyce is better?
Something nobody would have said in 2013.
He is hired for his proven skill of getting clubs out of relegation zone.
A poor manager that always fails at his jobs?
Some of you lot should seriously rethink why you bother to follow football. It pains me to see so many clearly avid football fans be so unbelievably thick when it comes to knowing anything about it.
Ay, he's no Ferguson, but he's by no verifiable measure a poor coach that fails. He's a very good coach (with a ceiling) that generally makes a success of his jobs. When he does leave clubs, they inevitably get worse. At Bolton he worked something of a miracle. Furthermore, he was one of the most progressive managers in terms of sports science in England, taking ideas from abroad and implementing them back here. He's also a giant prick, for what it's worth.
Get clued up for feck sake.
Some of you lot should seriously rethink why you bother to follow football. It pains me to see so many clearly avid football fans be so unbelievably thick when it comes to knowing anything about it.
Ay, he's no Ferguson, but he's by no verifiable measure a poor coach that fails. He's a very good coach (with a ceiling) that generally makes a success of his jobs. When he does leave clubs, they inevitably get worse. At Bolton he worked something of a miracle. Furthermore, he was one of the most progressive managers in terms of sports science in England, taking ideas from abroad and implementing them back here. He's also a giant prick, for what it's worth.
Get clued up for feck sake.