Biggest clubs per league

Dwight Corke

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South Africa - Kaizer Chiefs, Orlando Pirates and Mamelodi Sundowns.

Egypt - Al Ahly and Zamalek

Nigeria - Enyimba

DR Congo - TP Mazembe

Tunisia - Esperance

Algeria - USM Alger and JS Kabylie

Morocco - Raja Casablanca

Cote d'Ivoire - ASEC Mimosas

Ghana - Hearts of Oak and Asante Kotoko

Switzerland - FC Basel and Zurich Grasshoppers

Mexico - Club America
 

ROFLUTION

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Germany; Bayern. Full stop.
Dortmund is in Schalke, Hsv, Werder level.

Croatia; Hajduk and Dinamo
Dortmund won champions league. In the mid-late 90s they were a big force bigger than Schalke, Hsv and Werder too. (I dont know before the 90s though)

then went to the final again semi-recently against Bayern
 

RoyH1

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I keep on waiting for our resident Swedes to pitch in with their input. I always have a hard time working out who are the top of the pops over there. Is it Malmö and IFK Göteborg above the Stockholm clubs? Or does AIK have to be factored into the mix?
 

ScholesyTheWise

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How do you write something like this? Like have you heard someone laugh at "Der Klassiker" and then you just made up the rest in your head and dropped it like it's wisdom in this thread?
No mate, no ill feelings intended. I heard many people (admittedly young, 30-year-olds mainly) in my time in Berlin mentioning this rivalry to be a rather new thing, and referring to the German translation of "the Classico" as something that the TV channels were pushing, rather than something that was used that much by football fans. Some were probably more knowledgeable than others, as is always the case.

If you put your feelings for Dortmund aside, Do you still reckon it's been THE fixture in the Bundesliga for the past couple of decades?

I've no problems at all being stand corrected :) that's what we're here for at the end f the day.
 

do.ob

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No mate, no ill feelings intended. I heard many people (admittedly young, 30-year-olds mainly) in my time in Berlin mentioning this rivalry to be a rather new thing, and referring to the German translation of "the Classico" as something that the TV channels were pushing, rather than something that was used that much by football fans. Some were probably more knowledgeable than others, as is always the case.

If you put your feelings for Dortmund aside, Do you still reckon it's been THE fixture in the Bundesliga for the past couple of decades?

I've no problems at all being stand corrected :) that's what we're here for at the end f the day.
People rejected the term "Der Klassiker", because it was made up by Sky to market the game and they (rightfully) claimed that Bayern's classic rivalry would probably be with Gladbach, because they duked it out in the 70s. But that has no bearing on the rest of your post.

Like Leverkusen? You do realize that's basically a suburb of Cologne? A club that was irrelevant until the 80s and has literally 0 league titles, whose average attendance, including away fans, could barely fill Dortmund's "Südtribüne"?

And Schalke? They have a lot of fans, but aside from that they won their last league in 1958, the six titles before that as Hitler's poster boys. If we're being generous they had a run of about 9 years as a top club, since colour TV became a thing.

So the fact that a lot of people reject a marketing term, doesn't really say a lot about the club hierarchy. Unless you genuinely believe Gladbach is the second biggest club in Germany.
 
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HTG

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I have many German friends who laugh at the notion of "Der Klassiker", as if Dortmund are somehow THE 2nd biggest club in Germany...
They're not considered bigger than Schalke and Leverkusen by any means... just recently more successful.

In Israel (yeah I'm from there, don't wanna talk about it) we have 4 big clubs in Maccabi Haifa, Maccabi Tel Aviv, Hapoel Tel Aviv & Beitar Jerusalem.
The first two are still successful recently, still dominant and still rich.

The latter two are akin two what's become of AC Milan after Berlusconi left- or how United would be without the money.
They still have massive crowds and pride themselves to be a big club, but they are middle - to - bottom half-teams more often than not for the past decade or so.

Former days of glory really are a bitch.
The idea that Leverkusen is anywhere close to Dortmund in size is completely and utterly ridiculous. They are a smaller club than their neighbours from Cologne even. Despite being consistently more successful.
 

BarstoolProphet

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I keep on waiting for our resident Swedes to pitch in with their input. I always have a hard time working out who are the top of the pops over there. Is it Malmö and IFK Göteborg above the Stockholm clubs? Or does AIK have to be factored into the mix?
Not a Swede, but yeah, AIK and those you mentioned are seen as the three biggest clubs by far (based on Swedish friends and visiting the country.)
 

Andycoleno9

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@do.ob . Schalke, Werder and HSV are similiar with number of trophies like BVB. Hsv also has CL trophy. On the other hand Bayern alone has more trophies than all those 4 together. So it is little bit over the board to say that biggest German teams are Bayern AND Dortmund, isn't it?
And this is coming from someone who likes BvB the most among German clubs
 

HypeMerchant

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Some of the leagues like Italy, Portugal and Holland have a big 3 instead of big 2.
 

do.ob

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@do.ob . Schalke, Werder and HSV are similiar with number of trophies like BVB. Hsv also has CL trophy. On the other hand Bayern alone has more trophies than all those 4 together. So it is little bit over the board to say that biggest German teams are Bayern AND Dortmund, isn't it?
And this is coming from someone who likes BvB the most among German clubs
Schalke's trophy count is significantly inflated by their Nazi titles, I'd be ashamed to put them on my letter head. They are approaching 70 years, the entire era of professional football in Germany, without a league win. They are a very big club in terms of following, but not in terms of silverware. Dortmund has both.

Hamburg, too, are a big club, but they haven't won anything since the 80s and they have barely ever been considered a top team in the last 30 years. If I were to guess I'd say they haven't played in the CL more than twice.

Bremen had quite a bit of success in the past, but I wouldn't consider them a big club on the scale of the previous three. They have always been a bit provincial.

Now of course the gap between Bayern and Dortmund is huge, so I wouldn't object if someone said "just Bayern by themselves", but I think by just about every logical metric there is still a gap between Dortmund and the rest. Some clubs can compete in certain aspects, but they fall behind in others.
 

Andycoleno9

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OP was too diplomatic. Biggest (as one and the only) club per league would be more interesting.

Man Utd
Real
Juve
Psg
Bayern
Benfica
Olympiacos
Celtic

I think... :nervous:
 

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Some are easy, like England, Germany, Spain but others a little more tricky.

Interested to see what the Caf thinks.

Basically the biggest clubs in terms of size, fanbase, history, European pedigree, trophies etc.

England
Liverpool and United

Spain
Barca and Real

Germany
Bayern and Dortmund

Scotland
Rangers and Celtic

Portugal
Benfica and Porto

France
PSG and Marseille (only French team to win the EC and equal titles with PSG)

Italy
AC Milan and Juventus (although Inter have one more EC than Juve)

Holland
Ajax and PSV (Of note Feyenoord have a EC themselves so equal with PSV on that count)

Norway
Rosenborg and Molde

Greece
Olympiakos and Panathinaikos (if we include basket, then Aris too).

Serbia
Partizan and Red Star

Northern Ireland
Glentoran and Linfield.

Turkey
Galatasaray and Fenerbache

Argentina
Boca and River Plate

Feel free to add other leagues and change around.
Why is history there and not present? Also I would put Chelsea in there as they have had sustained success. City are a bigger team than us now.
 

TheReligion

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Why is history there and not present? Also I would put Chelsea in there as they have had sustained success. City are a bigger team than us now.
History includes everything up until yesterday. Not sure of your point.

City still wouldn’t be in it though. Chelsea would be on the next level.

I think the criteria is self explanatory
 

Belisarius

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Who is it in Brazil? I presume Flamengo. Host of other clubs to choose from though
I'm not from Brazil but lived in Sao Paulo for a year. Their top league seemed to me to be more competitive and diverse than most.

Palmeiras and Corinthians I think are right up there with Flamengo. And Sao Paulo and Santos both aren't far off the top clubs in terms of history and following.
 

Stacks

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History includes everything up until yesterday. Not sure of your point.

City still wouldn’t be in it though. Chelsea would be on the next level.

I think the criteria is self explanatory
Chelsea more fans than Liverpool, bigger stadium and European pedigree nearly level with United.


#Football TeamNumber of Fans
01Manchester United75,012,095
02Chelsea49,760,591
03Manchester City40,715,173
04Liverpool39,137,387
 

Andycoleno9

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Chelsea more fans than Liverpool, bigger stadium and European pedigree nearly level with United.


#Football TeamNumber of Fans
01Manchester United75,012,095
02Chelsea49,760,591
03Manchester City40,715,173
04Liverpool39,137,387
This simply can't be true. You can hate Liverpool as much as you can but their number of fans and reputation is (nearly) the same as ours. Chelsea and City are waaaaaaaaay off. Only Arsenal is maybe close.
 

ScholesyTheWise

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Schalke's trophy count is significantly inflated by their Nazi titles, I'd be ashamed to put them on my letter head. They are approaching 70 years, the entire era of professional football in Germany, without a league win. They are a very big club in terms of following, but not in terms of silverware. Dortmund has both.

Hamburg, too, are a big club, but they haven't won anything since the 80s and they have barely ever been considered a top team in the last 30 years. If I were to guess I'd say they haven't played in the CL more than twice.

Bremen had quite a bit of success in the past, but I wouldn't consider them a big club on the scale of the previous three. They have always been a bit provincial.

Now of course the gap between Bayern and Dortmund is huge, so I wouldn't object if someone said "just Bayern by themselves", but I think by just about every logical metric there is still a gap between Dortmund and the rest. Some clubs can compete in certain aspects, but they fall behind in others.
Thanks for the input mate.

I have another question for you- have you ever gotten any hate for stating that you're a BVB supporter in an environment that you thought would be rather neutral?

When I lived in Berlin (2015-2016) it seemed like pretty much everyone hated Bayern Muenchen / people from Bavaria.
And it's fairly common knowledge that United (and Pool) are hated in England, and I guess it's the same for Barca, Madrid...

Would supporters of random clubs (not Schalke) have any reason to strongly dislike Dortmund?
 

Pocho

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Serie A is undisputedly a triumvirate in the eyes of Italians.
The three striped teams from the north vs the rest.

I'd love to hear from an Argie:
are the historically istitutional Cinco Grandes (Boca, River, Independiente, Racing, San Lorenzo) still a thing in general perception?
With a second group of five (Estudiantes, Huracan, Newell's Old Boys, Rosario Central, Velez) each claiming to be el Sexto Grande?
River
Boca
Racing
Independiente
San Lorenzo
But clubs as Estudiantes de La Plata
Rosario Central and Talleres de Cordoba may have a word for the fourth spot in terms of number of fans, very strong in their cities. Velez too but only in terms of trophies won.
 

giorno

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This simply can't be true. You can hate Liverpool as much as you can but their number of fans and reputation is (nearly) the same as ours. Chelsea and City are waaaaaaaaay off. Only Arsenal is maybe close.
Chelsea have a bigger global fanbase than Liverpool. Liverpool are bigger in the UK though, as are Arsenal i think. City also have grown quite a large global fanbase but yeah, find it hard to believe they've overtaken liverpool
 

do.ob

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Thanks for the input mate.

I have another question for you- have you ever gotten any hate for stating that you're a BVB supporter in an environment that you thought would be rather neutral?

When I lived in Berlin (2015-2016) it seemed like pretty much everyone hated Bayern Muenchen / people from Bavaria.
And it's fairly common knowledge that United (and Pool) are hated in England, and I guess it's the same for Barca, Madrid...

Would supporters of random clubs (not Schalke) have any reason to strongly dislike Dortmund?
There are probably a few reasons why people from Bavaria are a bit disliked, like for example: heavy dialect, (low key) separatist tendencies, it's the bastion of Christian conservative right wing politics in Germany, stupid Americans confusing Bavarian traditions with Germany. Now with Bayern fans it's kind of obvious I guess: Bayern wins too often, for the longest time their two main guys were entitled hypocrites and literal criminals and of course the glory hunter fans.

Hate is a strong word, but generally speaking Dortmund have profiled themselves as the keepers of football values, so there's some form of tension with fans of plastic clubs, who represent the ideological opposite. With Watzke lobbying to cut their share of TV money over their lack of fans. As far as I'm aware Gladbach fans usually have a strong dislike against Dortmund mainly over mainly buying Reus, Hazard and Rose, but also Dahoud and indirectly Favre. If you somehow come across a Leverkusen fan in the wild they can also be feisty, again, because of the buying angle (I think it really stung when Dortmund bought Gonzalo Castro, but also Toprak and Brandt) and of course the whole (defund) plastic angle and the older ones probably remember when Leverkusen shat their pants in 2002 and Dortmund snatched the title from them. And I'm sure that by now Dortmund, too, have picked up a few glory hunter fans, who annoy neutrals. But I think in general Dortmund haven't won enough to be universally disliked and still profit from not being Bayern (or Leipzig).
 

ScholesyTheWise

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There are probably a few reasons why people from Bavaria are a bit disliked, like for example: heavy dialect, (low key) separatist tendencies, it's the bastion of Christian conservative right wing politics in Germany, stupid Americans confusing Bavarian traditions with Germany. Now with Bayern fans it's kind of obvious I guess: Bayern wins too often, for the longest time their two main guys were entitled hypocrites and literal criminals and of course the glory hunter fans.

Hate is a strong word, but generally speaking Dortmund have profiled themselves as the keepers of football values, so there's some form of tension with fans of plastic clubs, who represent the ideological opposite. With Watzke lobbying to cut their share of TV money over their lack of fans. As far as I'm aware Gladbach fans usually have a strong dislike against Dortmund mainly over mainly buying Reus, Hazard and Rose, but also Dahoud and indirectly Favre. If you somehow come across a Leverkusen fan in the wild they can also be feisty, again, because of the buying angle (I think it really stung when Dortmund bought Gonzalo Castro, but also Toprak and Brandt) and of course the whole (defund) plastic angle and the older ones probably remember when Leverkusen shat their pants in 2002 and Dortmund snatched the title from them. And I'm sure that by now Dortmund, too, have picked up a few glory hunter fans, who annoy neutrals. But I think in general Dortmund haven't won enough to be universally disliked and still profit from not being Bayern (or Leipzig).
Thanks, much appreciated!

re: profiling oneself as a keeper of football's values... I'd imagine you'll have many fans hating you, not just those of so called plastic clubs.
I know I hated Xavi, Puyol etc when they'd cry in the media that "football lost" whenever someone like Mourinho would win against them with a parked bus...

as if there's only one way to legitimately play football (or in Dortmund's case, to run a football club- in case you were speaking about this and not the actual football on the pitch).
 

RedDevil@84

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Chelsea have a bigger global fanbase than Liverpool. Liverpool are bigger in the UK though, as are Arsenal i think. City also have grown quite a large global fanbase but yeah, find it hard to believe they've overtaken liverpool
In India, I have met more Chelsea fans than Liverpool. Not sure about the numbers.
Part of the reason I would believe that PL was not broadcast in India till 2001-02 season.
 

Lay

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In India, I have met more Chelsea fans than Liverpool. Not sure about the numbers.
Part of the reason I would believe that PL was not broadcast in India till 2001-02 season.
I'm sure I read a few years ago that Chelsea had overtaken Liverpool for support in Africa. Small scale but there's about 2 kids in my 9 year olds class that support Liverpool. The rest are United, Chelsea and City. Then his football club, majority are United, Chelsea and Arsenal.

I would have thought more would be Liverpool fans due to their recent successes. Growing up my school was basically half United and half Liverpool.
 

carvajal

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River
Boca
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But clubs as Estudiantes de La Plata
Rosario Central and Talleres de Cordoba may have a word for the fourth spot in terms of number of fans, very strong in their cities. Velez too but only in terms of trophies won.
Pocho, about this...River is the first? So "la mitad más uno"? Is it a Boca belief?
And about Racing and Independiente...can you find fans of the teams in any area or is it more Avellaneda and surroundings? I always imagined Independiente was more popular
 

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River
Boca
Racing
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San Lorenzo
But clubs as Estudiantes de La Plata
Rosario Central and Talleres de Cordoba may have a word for the fourth spot in terms of number of fans, very strong in their cities. Velez too but only in terms of trophies won.
tnx man much appreciated =)
 

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Albania: Tirana
Chile: Colo-Colo
Egypt: Al Ahly
Hungary: Ferencváros
Mexico: América and Guadalajara
Poland: Legia Warsaw
Romania: Steaua Bucharest
Uruguay: Peñarol
 

MadDogg

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In India, I have met more Chelsea fans than Liverpool. Not sure about the numbers.
Part of the reason I would believe that PL was not broadcast in India till 2001-02 season.
That would be the only way that Chelsea have any chance of having more fans than Liverpool. The sheer number of people in India (and China if a similar thing happened there) might swing things. I wouldn't be surprised if they had more in much of Africa as well, but throughout the rest of the world I would expect Liverpool would be comfortably ahead.
 

Andycoleno9

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For "who is bigger" it is wrong to look current situation or last decade. You must look at entire history because every club has its era of domination. So, regarding that, i have tricky one; Celtic or Rangers? :nervous:
 

Pocho

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Pocho, about this...River is the first? So "la mitad más uno"? Is it a Boca belief?
And about Racing and Independiente...can you find fans of the teams in any area or is it more Avellaneda and surroundings? I always imagined Independiente was more popular
River and Boca has almost 70% of the football fans around Argentina, Independiente is more local from Avellaneda and used to have lots of hinchas but they´ve been downgrading since the 2000s and you can say that Racing it´s a bit on top of them, both from Avellaneda.

La Mitad mas Uno was a marketing strategy from Alberto J Armando who was Boca´s president in the 70s.
 

carvajal

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River and Boca has almost 70% of the football fans around Argentina, Independiente is more local from Avellaneda and used to have lots of hinchas but they´ve been downgrading since the 2000s and you can say that Racing it´s a bit on top of them, both from Avellaneda.

La Mitad mas Uno was a marketing strategy from Alberto J Armando who was Boca´s president in the 70s.
70%! More than I expected. Thank you
 

Lay

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I would have thought Boca > River
 

KeanoMagicHat

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PSG isn't the biggest club in France.

Those are Marseille and Saint Etienne.

Given their recent history, PSG should be third, at the same tier of Olympique Lyon...not second or first.

This is like saying City is bigger than Liverpool, cause they are more successful than Liverpool since Abu Dhabi bought the club.
Nah, PSG already have the joint most Ligue 1 titles (soon to be more) and have had players of higher quality than anything the league has seen. It's not like comparing to a 6-time CL champion like Liverpool or a dominant team like United. Ligue 1 never had that kind of team.

Also they are the most successful club in French history now despite their late start. PSG also had won the second most Coupe de Frances before the takeover anyway. Also Saint Etienne haven't been relevant in years. They haven't won a Ligue 1 title since 1981.

PSG and Marseille are the biggest two teams in France.
 

stefan92

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Schalke's trophy count is significantly inflated by their Nazi titles, I'd be ashamed to put them on my letter head. They are approaching 70 years, the entire era of professional football in Germany, without a league win. They are a very big club in terms of following, but not in terms of silverware. Dortmund has both.

Hamburg, too, are a big club, but they haven't won anything since the 80s and they have barely ever been considered a top team in the last 30 years. If I were to guess I'd say they haven't played in the CL more than twice.

Bremen had quite a bit of success in the past, but I wouldn't consider them a big club on the scale of the previous three. They have always been a bit provincial.

Now of course the gap between Bayern and Dortmund is huge, so I wouldn't object if someone said "just Bayern by themselves", but I think by just about every logical metric there is still a gap between Dortmund and the rest. Some clubs can compete in certain aspects, but they fall behind in others.
Nonetheless if you make a history a factor in deciding on top clubs, for Germany you have to include Gladbach (for the 70s) and Hamburg (for the 80s) on par with Dortmund (for the 90s/00s).

And yes, "Der Klassiker" is a stupid marketing claim. There is no classical rivalry between Bayern and Dortmund, true "Klassikers" would be matches like Dortmund-Schalke or Hamburg-Bremen.

By the way if you look at membership numbers, the ranking in Germany is Bayern, Schalke, Dortmund, Cologne
 

Andycoleno9

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@Pocho . Does for River and Boca apply that Boca is the club of working class people and River is for "upper class" people?
Or is that another football myth?
 

giorno

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That would be the only way that Chelsea have any chance of having more fans than Liverpool. The sheer number of people in India (and China if a similar thing happened there) might swing things. I wouldn't be surprised if they had more in much of Africa as well, but throughout the rest of the world I would expect Liverpool would be comfortably ahead.
Pretty sure Chelsea have Liverpool beat anywhere but Europe
 

giorno

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@Pocho . Does for River and Boca apply that Boca is the club of working class people and River is for "upper class" people?
Or is that another football myth?
Started out kinda true then became myth