Discussion in 'Current Events' started by Sassy Colin, Nov 19, 2014.
No thread on this?
Another big star heading for a fall?
Thought this would blow up. Remember seeing all those memes a couple of weeks back, and not really getting them i googled it. Turns out it's a lesser known thing but there are accusations against him going back years.
He's been talked about in the Jimmy Saville thread, alongside all the other washed up, alleged nonces.
It made the 10 O'clock News this evening, it's not going away
I'm very, very uncomfortable with this idea that allegations are enough to discredit a public figure. Doesn't matter whether there were 100 people claiming that he raped each and every one of them. Apart from the fact that committing 99 crimes is not evidence that the 100th was committed by the same person... we don't base truth on how many people are saying it. How many people have independently claimed they have seen a UFO, or the Virgin Mary?
Shame that we will never know for sure whether Cosby is innocent or not. I'm not guessing.
Ta-Nehesi Coates had a good piece on this today. Those defending him are taking the position that fifteen different women lied independently about a publicly adored figure while seeking no criminal or financial repercussions. It takes a lot of mental gymnastics to come down on Cosby's side.
Not sure either of those things are comparable with claiming to have been raped.
Jello Pudding Pops
In the Atlantic? I read that piece. I generally agree with his articles.
If I come across as defending Cosby, it is because I put myself in my shoes and realize that somehow, 15 people accusing me of doing something is enough proof in the eye of the public that I am guilty, which is a terrifying thought. The US has a long, dark history of black men getting lynched because of hearsay. That is not to say that the women are lying. I just don't have enough evidence to say for sure that either side is right or wrong. Nowadays, it just takes one accuser (cf Woody Allen and Mia Farrow)
I could also ask how is it possible that Bill Cosby raped 15 women, and not one single case made it to a judge in criminal court. That proves nothing though, we have come a long way in society from 20 years ago when sexual assault awareness was nowhere near today's standards.
I just don't know.
I never was a fan of the Cosby show, oddly enough.
Big fan of that one where he was a ghost.
He's finished. Too many disparate women are turning up with damaging allegations, so he might as well retire and disappear.
Are you unsure about the Jimmy Savile case as well, then?
Maybe it's just because I'm from the UK but I assumed he did that 20 years ago.
He more or less did, but is working on a new TV show, which unsurprisingly got cancelled today.
I didn't follow the specifics of that case. Did it all come down to hearsay?
Apparently he is still doing comedy tours all over, and they're selling out.
Doubt he will do them for much longer. He won't want to deal with getting heckled, especially at his age.
Ghost dad. Arrow video have been teasing a blu ray release for a while now. I'm guessing that this has killed off any hope of that one being released.
And there's absolutely no way you can respectfully and uncontroversially come back to any sort of heckling about serious allegations like that. For a start, if there are going to be any actual charges brought up against him anything he says could be used against him...
The initial weight of the evidence was that so many people came forward with similar stories independently to the extent that you couldn't reasonably believe them all to be lying. After a while more and more came out, with third party witnesses also coming forward saying that many people knew he behaved like that... Never got anywhere near a court as far as I know, as he basically used his reputation as a great charity fundraiser (with an army of lawyers) to scare anyone who dared speak to the police. There's no physical evidence as far as I know, just an immense weight of independent testimony. Don't know the details of Cosby's allegations, I just disagree with the premise that we can never know one way or the other.
Fair enough, and it's a free world, with people free to make up their own mind. Public figures are not entitled to the public's affection and love.
On the bolded point, using the amount of accusers to decide whether someone did something or not, without any supporting evidence, seems very sketchy to me.
I agree that numbers alone don't determine it, the content and consistencies play a huge part too. Sexual assault as a crime I think has a very uneasy relationship with "innocent until proven guilty", which I'm not sure can be said for any other offence. Very difficult one to solve adequately. In Savile's case I think it's well beyond reasonable doubt he was guilty, we'll have to see how this particular one develops.
I think you won't have to look very hard to find examples of people getting away with sexual assault, especially famous and revered people. It's not totally fair to just say "15 people" either. This is 15 independent people across decades who are willing to put their names out there and are doing this despite the fact that they do not stand to gain financially and the statute of limitations has passed. Just saying that there isn't enough evidence and pronouncing yourself neutral is inherently a support of the accused in these situations. And people should certainly exercise healthy skepticism and be given a chance to make a counter argument. But when the facts are as they are in this case (fifteen women, across decades, willing to put their names out there, no financial motive), the burden that Cosby's supporters have to support his innocence is extremely high and I haven't seen any theory that comes close to satisfying that.
People are less likely to file criminal charges for rape, especially when the perp is a very famous person. On the other hand, everyone and their dog can claim to have seen God and Aliens because there aren't really any repercussions.
Its all well to want to give Cosby the benefit of the doubt, but one gets the impression that 15 disparate women coming out of the woodwork alleging he raped them makes it highly unlikely they are all collectively lying. One of them claimed he raped her in the late 60s, others say they were raped in the 80s. This looks like a pattern of behavior that played out over several decades.
Just watched a section on the news about this and his refusal to comment on the record is not going to hold and makes him look as guilty as hell. The one point I would make in response to some of the above posts is that as difficult as these cases are to judge they become even more difficult when fame and money are involved.
He has settled out of court in the past so to say there is no money involved isn't the whole picture. There are however some very direct and specific claims which appear to show a pattern of behaviour and I think he is very probably guilty.
Sounds like charges could follow to me. This "not dignifying" allegations with a response is very dodgy IMO
Statutes of limitations apply here. And with very good reason. What evidence exists after 30 years? Are memories reliable at that moment?
His PR person came out denying the allegations. That's all he can do. Seeing people's minds are made up already
This is so depressing. Saville was a freaky character even when I was a kid. But Cosby? I loved that guy as a kid. Who didnt want to be in that family when they were young?
Next I'll find out Fozzie Bear is a sex pest.
Not defending Cosby here, but what else would you have him do? If he came out and denied it, people will just say he is lying.
Not sure what the statute of limitations is on rape in the various jurisdictions where the alleged crimes took place, but for the older accusations he probably can not be put on criminal trial. I am not sure if there is a time limit on brining a civil suit against him or not.
The statute of limitations for all of these seems to have expired. That said, one thing that can't be overlooked in the court of public opinion, is that its highly unlikely that 15 women spanning three decades are collectively lying.
The court of public opinion has been proven time and time again to be shortsighted, stupid, reactive, and easily swayed by the latest twitter fad, only to drop all interest a few moments later in chase of the latest fad high. Cosby and other public people still need to deal with this court... but let's not elevate it as the last Mohican against all that is evil and wrong.
oh yeah it will affect his career, but then again he probably does not need to work and could just retire.
Gotta save up for those legal fees and settlements.
Me, I wanted to knob one of his daughters, that would be awkward/incest.
Who, Fozzie's daughter??
All these guys seem to be in their 70s. Surprised no-one younger has been outed yet. I guess when all this was going on anyone young enough to be below 50 now would have been at it with other consenting 20 somethings...
Separate names with a comma.