But we went out and attacked, formations doesnt prove anything. When a draw did us v PSG we did nothing but pen them back. If anything we should have been more cautious. Hell the first goal in Istanbul is from us being too far forward
Boring, boring Man United
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And they did that after some negative results. I believe Keane after a drab 0-0 at Chelsea, and Neville after the 0-0 away to Palace.
We've certainly had boring matches, but over the course of the season I disagree we've been boring. I think we've played some truly exciting, pulsating matches this season. Soton away, Villa at home, Everton away, Leeds at home, Leicester away, Everton at home, Leipzig at home, and PSG away. I've only listed matches that were wins or draws for us. We've had negative results that have been "exciting" too, but nobody seems to care much about the entertainment factor in those instances.
Ole has made progress in terms of getting results however, I have a feeling that he is not strict enough. We have seen Bruno, Greenwood, Rashford, Pogba, James, Martial all season give the ball away cheaply, game after game and it keeps happening.
We cannot pass the football, which is a worrying sign. We starve the forwards which means when they get the ball, they try to do it all themselves. How many times does Greenwood, Martial, James, Rashford try take 4/5 players because there is no options.
Its very poor in terms of ball retention. We play the worst football in Europe. Granada are not a good team, they would be bottom half PL team so us creating barely anything all game and getting a lucky penalty at the end says it all.
We cannot pass the football, which is a worrying sign. We starve the forwards which means when they get the ball, they try to do it all themselves. How many times does Greenwood, Martial, James, Rashford try take 4/5 players because there is no options.
Its very poor in terms of ball retention. We play the worst football in Europe. Granada are not a good team, they would be bottom half PL team so us creating barely anything all game and getting a lucky penalty at the end says it all.
We're a very risk averse and pragmatic team in my opinion, but ultimately it's all subjective. I still feel like I'm yet to see us string together two or three good performances in a row this season, with many of our games predominantly being a grind with us capitalising on a few key moments. All the while often looking less cohesive than teams with far less resources than us.
I do also think the drop off from some of the great football on display on Tuesday and Wednesday to our game yesterday was particularly jarring, even though that was partly down to the style of the opposition.
Regardless, some watch us play and are thoughroughly entertained, if that's the case then that's fair. Though I think this idea that keeps getting parrotted that we must be entertaining because of our goal tally is pretty disingenuous, because that:
1. Has little to do with how we actually look over the course of a 90 minute game
2. Ignores the fact that 15 of those goals came across two games
I do also think the drop off from some of the great football on display on Tuesday and Wednesday to our game yesterday was particularly jarring, even though that was partly down to the style of the opposition.
Regardless, some watch us play and are thoughroughly entertained, if that's the case then that's fair. Though I think this idea that keeps getting parrotted that we must be entertaining because of our goal tally is pretty disingenuous, because that:
1. Has little to do with how we actually look over the course of a 90 minute game
2. Ignores the fact that 15 of those goals came across two games
Bingo
No fecking way
That goal against Istanbul was a complete clusterfeck, it wasn't just the breaks of playing attacking football - it was pure idiocy and hilarity of the highest degree. We had two shots on target in that game, Istanbul had three.Woah
I mean, we have some of the most talented players yet we get outplayed by almost every team we face... yet its the fans fault for wanting entertaining football?
I mean in the top divisions obviously. Granada looked comfortable, this is a mid table La Liga team. We had 1 piece of quality all game which was the difference. This happens in big games, a moment of magic not in these sort of games where you are expected to create chance after chance.
Which were the negative results that we played exciting football in? Certainly not Leicester the other week, or the games against RBL or Istanbul. Most certainly not the Arsenal loss or the loss to City in the league cup, or the Palace loss first game of the season. Definitely agree that we played well in the PSG loss and were unfortunate to lose. The problem is that even when we win, it's often boring and laborious. See last night, see the weekend etc. It's not always the case, but it's enough to warrant discussion.
The style of football is not great but it is a results business and although I didn't see yesterday's match it sounds as if it was the perfect away performance in many respects. If it gets results then it works.
The only thing I would say is that Jose got slaughtered for some of his negative football on here and I think Ole gets a bit of a free pass from some. There have been quotes from Ole that would have got LVG, Moyes or Jose into deep crap with the fanbase but I think it's ignored because we've sort of accepted that we're the underdog in some big games.
The goals scored are inflated by the matches against a suicidal Leeds and a Southampton who have history (having 10 men and then 9 men didn't help). I think Spurs also have quite a high goals scored for this season but their matches are much worse than ours to watch. As I said though, it's a results business and Ole is doing more than a good enough job on that front.
The only thing I would say is that Jose got slaughtered for some of his negative football on here and I think Ole gets a bit of a free pass from some. There have been quotes from Ole that would have got LVG, Moyes or Jose into deep crap with the fanbase but I think it's ignored because we've sort of accepted that we're the underdog in some big games.
The goals scored are inflated by the matches against a suicidal Leeds and a Southampton who have history (having 10 men and then 9 men didn't help). I think Spurs also have quite a high goals scored for this season but their matches are much worse than ours to watch. As I said though, it's a results business and Ole is doing more than a good enough job on that front.
Still a bit much, in my opinion. It's one game, its after the Internationals.
You can look at Atletico creating feck all in 180 mins vs Chelsea. You can look at Chelsea doing feck all domestically vs open teams like Southampton or Leeds, or relegation sides like WBA. You can look at Arsenal doing feck all last night against a team that Spurs did feck all against themselves, who went on to lose against.
When you say we play the worst football in Europe, and happen to support a side that's lost what, 2 in the past 20+ games it feels massively overcooked. Put it this way, I envy how City, Bayern and PSG look in Europe. But I don't think the likes of Liverpool, Chelsea, Juventus etc. have made a great account of themselves over the course of the season, either domestically or in Europe or both.
As I said before, results have improved but how many games have we played well in? 3 max this season? PSG, Leipzig, City?
Yeah you can look at those, Arsenal created more chances yesterday than we have in our last 3 games. That tells you something.
That’s because that’s the style of our play since last season. We are programmed to play more direct and move the ball forward to the final third area to shoot or score. You can tell why Ole likes to play Fred and McT in midfield especially in big game because their duty is like winning the ball back with pressing and intensity and then provide the ball to the front four as soon as possible when they win the ball back.
Obviously he’s setting this because he was given those players when he was hired so it’s not like he can do anything else, ball retention is not easy to coached, it also comes from talent. Who knows if he wants to evolve that into more possession with high ball retention but that means he needs players who are good at those.
I think football might just be quite boring apart from when it isn’t
It’s about quality. We have created much higher xG than arsenal this season. Even yesterday we had 2.1 xG while Granada only 0.4 which shows we fully deserved to win that match. Even arsenal had lower xG yesterday.
You are coming across with a single dimension view of the game, purely on creating. Arsenal look shit in controlling easy games and they feck up defensively all the time. I associate Manchester United of old in both attacking and defensive clinics. Theres no chance I'd trade our football for Arsenal's. Or Chelsea's for that matter. Or Spurs, or Liverpool, or Dortmund, or Juve.
And you can only name 3 games we played well in this season? Really? I mean look we smashed Sociedad after 1 leg and we thrashed Southampton 9-0 in the recent games I refer to. Again pulling other teams into this - I don't see Chelsea making any more impressive performances (in fact, I see less). I see the same for Liverpool, I think Juventus are shite now, Dortmund like to trip themselves up domestically, etc.
You also need a bit of context to what Ole is dealing with. Rashford isn't 100% fit, Martial is injured and off form, Cavani has been injured and Pogba only just came back in the last couple games. He's only left with Greenwood and Bruno as fully fit regulars. I'm not saying Ole has been perfect by the way - for example I think he can play VDB a lot more than he has because I reckon Donny would start making an impact now. But all in all, he's delivered more enough for me not to get picky about the style of play yet.
We're boring, but let's be honest for a bit, we'll always be boring with the likes of AWB, Scott, James and no natural goal scorer in our team.
Just the amount of times Pogba and Bruno were passing to themselves in the middle last night was a bit embarrassing.
Also, the only two players in our team that can go past a player are Pogba and Shaw.
I'm no big fan of Ole but he needs a few more players to be able to play attractive football. Most of the current ones don't really have the skills with and off the ball.
Just the amount of times Pogba and Bruno were passing to themselves in the middle last night was a bit embarrassing.
Also, the only two players in our team that can go past a player are Pogba and Shaw.
I'm no big fan of Ole but he needs a few more players to be able to play attractive football. Most of the current ones don't really have the skills with and off the ball.
I mean in bigger games I do understand the McFred partnership, tbh if we can pass the ball better I don't mind them playing in any game.
He was given players but they are not bad players are they? There have been no signs that he wants to evolve that way because the best ball retention player in our squad is VDB and he doesn't get a look in.
Bruno has regressed to a level of the other players as well.
I am not having a go purely at Ole here though, its the players out on the pitch. I am sorry but these are professional players who are on big money, they should be able to keep the football.
Dan James everytime he is around more than 1 person, plays a wayward pass. He keeps giving the ball away.
Rahshford, tried to beat 3 man in the centre of the pitch and we got countered.
Bruno keeps giving the ball away, then blames the player who passed it.
Greenwood touch was like a brick wall yesterday.
Pogba was okay but he gave the ball away alot too
McTominay the same.
AWB as usual cannot pass under pressure
We cannot have 7 players on the pitch that constantly give the ball away, its not sustainable.
The only thing I can think of right now is all our players are tired, need a pre season to with the correct signings and work on things for us to be better next season.
Who are these talented players?
Rashford - played through injury pretty much all season, has had an excellent season despite constant criticism on here. Has scored some delightful and entertaining goals.
Bruno - a mainstay in the team and so understandly tired at this stage having played a game every couple of days. Has had an excellent season and scored / assisted plenty of entertaining and great goals.
Greenwood - expected drop off, completely normal for a player of his age.
Pogba - in and out of the team. Not so sure he is fully committed but has scored / assisted some entertaining goals.
Martial - gone off the boil completely, still not sure where his head is. Manager has afforded him a lot of chances to remedy this, so it is on the player.
Cavani - not sure he has ever been considered the type to bring entertaining football? Coming to the end of his career here and was a short-term punt. Played his part in the comeback against Southampton which you would need to be soulless to have not enjoyed or been entertained by.
You don't need xG to tell you that - just saying (I completely agree with you on the whole).
We obviously deserved to win the match. It wasn't a beautiful, brilliant display - but it was an honest win. We were the better team - and won.
Typical non-pretty away win in a two-leg tie, really.
Again - people using this particular game to vent whatever concerns they have about Ole...don't know when to speak and when to shut up.
Why do you constantly exaggerate madly to get your point across? You know that saying we have only played well in 3 games makes it hard to take you seriously
We've hammered Leeds and Saints. Sociedad was picked apart defensively in our first game. Those are just examples on the top of my head.
And the bolded part: what's your source on that? Looking at Fotmob - a source I merely picked because they show chances created - they say Arsenal vs. Slavia created 9 chances - 1 of them a "big chance". Looking a United in the last three games - Granada, Brighton, and Leicester - again, according to Fotmob - we've had 6 chances - 0 big ones (vs Leicester), 15 chances - 2 big ones (vs Brighton) and last night 11 chances - 2 big ones (vs Granada) - a total of 32 chances and 4 "big" ones vs Arsenal's 9 chances and 1 big chance. So, what stat page are you basing all that on?
The way you say constantly give the ball away, we still manage to keep something like 60% possession vs Brighton (who like to keep the ball), 62% vs West Ham, almost 70% of the ball last night, etc.
If all of your listed players surrender possession to the extent you claim, these stats wouldn't really be possible. I think it's clear you are massively exaggerating now.
And as I said there are a host of European teams (some with more squad expectation than ours) who have been much worse than we have.
Then don't.
We also had more possession during LVG days, are you telling me that was better? more possession doesn't mean you dont give the ball away.
Most of the possession we keep is between Maguire, Lindelof and the like.
I am sorry but that's how I have been seeing it. Since January our performances have got progressively worse. How many chances do we create from great play? hardly any.
I agree PSG was good, as was the 2nd Istanbul game (the first one was shambolic). But all the others were more cagey affairs with counterattacks being our main form of offense.
If teams give us space and don't press well, we're very good on the break which is always an exciting watch. But the setup itself within that gameplan is a risk averse one. If we were totally focused on our own game, we wouldn't be playing Fred and Scott in so many games. Sometimes with a right hand side of Scott, Dan James and AWB
Football is generally quite boring. You don't watch enough football if you think other teams are playing great stuff all the time.
I'd say we are slightly risk averse but nothing like LVG or Jose. It's much better than them.
At the moment I don't care. It's been a grim season to play football and we are doing well.
I'd say we are slightly risk averse but nothing like LVG or Jose. It's much better than them.
At the moment I don't care. It's been a grim season to play football and we are doing well.
I can name 3 chances Arsenal had yesterday.
Laccazette, Aubameyang, Saka, which are chances you would expect your players to score.
yesterday we had 1 real chance that was the Rashford one and he scored.
We didn't give the ball away much under LVG though, and no it's not just mainly possession between our center backs. Please refer to the heat maps of the latest games because it's now evident you're just making things up and rewriting history to suit a narrative.
Okay, so you pick and decide your own stats. Gotcha.
We have been playing terrible football regardless of the result for months now. That's just you and some others trying to convince yourselves otherwise. Doesn't make a difference to what actually happens though.
Also cool to keep on having digs at any other United fan who isn't talking positively about United's football.
Also cool to keep on having digs at any other United fan who isn't talking positively about United's football.
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Is this serious? What are you on about? We played 4 matches before that Leicester match and the results were
1-2 Loss to Swansea City. A game where we had 1 shot on target and it came from a corner and a flukey flick on from Jones and Swansea allowing Rooney to get off a bicycle kick not even a yard from the net.
1-1 vs Sunderland (outshot by Sunderland)
0-0 vs Burnley (outshot by Burnley)
4-0 win vs QPR (finished last and were the worst defense by 10 goals that season, conceded 73 goals, think that was 15 from the record for most conceded in a season)
This is not even including that 0-4 loss to MK Dons. Which I still think is the reason why Michael Keane got loaned and then sold because in Van Gaal's stubborn thick headedness he decided Keane & Evans were the reason for that loss and not him deciding to play a bunch of youngsters that obviously weren't comfortable with his boring tactics. Still annoys me that Van Gaal was the manager that decided Paddy McNair & Tyler Blackett were better to help the squad than Michael Keane.
So no you're wrong, we were playing his boring ass football a month before that Leicester match and it wasn't like before the Leicester match we played teams that finished in the top 5-6. Burnley & QPR finished 19th and 20th and Sunderland finished 16th and were 3 points from being relegated.
Playing nice football doesn't matter if you can't get results. I mean there's literally no argument against that or else that person is basically saying they would rather be in 16th flirting with relegation playing nice football like Brighton instead of 2nd.I don't know if Brighton or Leicester or Leeds play nicer football than United and nor do I care that much, but what on earth are you trying to prove or disprove with such remarks?
That match isn't a good example. Leipzig had 9 shots, 4 on target, we had 19 shots, 7 on target. The tactics weren't bad for that, that match was one team having all the luck. xG in that one was United 2.18, Leipzig 1.69
Yep. Tuanzebe was literally in Istanbul's penalty area when the ball got played to Demba Ba
Sums it up, really.
And - as others have said - maybe have a gander at how other teams actually perform over 90 minutes, week in, week out.
This is a fecked-up season. No fans, no pre-season, nothing normal about it.
Give the team (and Ole) a break, yeah? Bit of lenience, no?
I agree. There aren't many entertaining teams in the PL. City maybe when they are in full flow, which is like every 5th game or so. Liverpool before they switched to the more effective style was pretty entertaining at times. But that's about it. Chelsea? Boring as feck. Tottenham? If Son has a great game they can be entertaining. Arsenal? Only entertaining about them is the bitching on ArseTV.
In fact, I would argue there are very few really entertaining teams around in European football at all right now. Bayern admittedly can be when they have one of their goal bonanza games, scoring and conceding like there is no tomorrow. But the traditional big entertainers like Barca and Real? They look pretty pedestrian and boring most of the time these days.
Apart from that maybe Atalanta or Leeds could be named as the more entertaining smaller clubs but I also don't watch them enough to know if this is a regular thing or if I only got lucky when I saw them and they are otherwise pretty boring.
Boring boring
Moany fans
Boring boring
Moany fans
Boring boring
Moany fans
And the reds go moaning on, on, on!
Moany fans
Boring boring
Moany fans
Boring boring
Moany fans
And the reds go moaning on, on, on!
In Fergie's last years we were dreadful to watch. Counter attacking 1-0 wins for most of the season but we won everything so no one seemed to care. Back then it was called 'grinding' out a win while 'playing in second gear' and it was widely applauded within the media.
Do people actually know what they want anymore or do they just like complaining?
Do people actually know what they want anymore or do they just like complaining?