Bouhafsi: Martial wants to leave United

[Hernandez - BFA]

LVG played him as a striker & moved him to the left to accommodate Rashford rise as a Cf. Same with Lingard on the right - the following season they would have both been strikers playing in front of the Am Lingard - which is why Lingard did good this year because the guy is an Am who played at RM instead. Likewise martial now is a St playing at LW whilst depay is a St playing LW too which has been reverted.

A ST or Cf has different requirements to a LW who is asked to win the ball back & drop deep when playing on the wings. It is not been even a remote of an ability that has been important to us until Jose came here who requires it from every single player - never mind a player playing in the wrong position. Under LVG who played possession football no one once mentioned work rate because our defensive work raised from holding on to the ball albeit too much whilst now we lose the ball trying to take on defenders & crossing the ball to a target man who he himself hasn't got a great first touch but hey he runs after it at least right?

Depay has gotten better because he is a striker - that is not a coincidence - ask any person who has watched the games - if you don't see it that is bias & has hardly anything to do with work rate apart from the extra 20% confidence a player gets from playing in their best position.

Don't even mention deschamps - he like Jose mourinho is an inflexible manager not because of Martial but because of Benzema so his viewpoint of martial does not even bother me. Did you even watch how France played?

http://www.beinsports.com/us/fifa-w...benzema-should-be-at-world-cup-not-des/903684

https://www.transfermarkt.com/memphis-depay/leistungsdaten/spieler/167850
https://www.whoscored.com/Players/110154/Show/Memphis-Depay

I have watched, granted, only a couple of Lyon games this season live on TV - but as I was a huge advocate for Depay to join us from PSV, I do follow his time at Lyon with watching highlights etc. He never seemed to be a centre forward when I watched him and from those two links above - seems as if he was heavily a left wing/forward, not a centre forward.

I digress. I think we'll agree to disagree. As I said in my original post, if he ends up staying - then fine, I will support him as I did all of last season. But if two or three managers see him as a winger, then he needs to buckle down and play the way the managers want. Martial may know what talent he has, but I trust the experiences of Van Gaal and Mourinho and to a lesser extent Deschamps at what type of player he should be. I don't see him as a centre forward, doesn't seem to have the presence for it and doesn't give him the opportunities to take on players as he has on the wings, which I think is his strength along with composure.

 

[Andrew~]

Don't see why there is so much debate about this: if he goes, it's best for both parties. He feels he's been misused by Jose and Jose doesn't particularly rate him. Part ways and it's all good.

 

[redIndianDevil]

"few chances"? Rashford had the third highest game time this season and Martial had the 7th. They certainly haven't been denied chances.

Post arrival of Sanchez I meant

 

[redIndianDevil]

Martial in the league alone made more appearances than Pogba. Rashford himself was in the top 3 for games played for us last season. Both of them have had ample time to play and to play well. Its also because they are expected to be inconsistent that they are rotated. The madness lies in expecting them to play every game at their age and their stage of development, expecting consistency from them and expecting a club or manager to put them above the best interests of a club in any given competition it is facing.

We are talking about the recent season, I have already accepted that before January both Martial and Rashford were utilised well, they both were rotated and both performed admirably well along with the team.

Post arrival of Sanchez neither of them got any sort regular playing time, Sanchez with so much playing time was struggling, howd you expect Rashford and Martial to outperform him without playing continuously.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Don’t make it sound like clubs won’t pay it. The clubs that would want him just can’t afford it.

Probably true , doesn't mean they are poorer or something they are just smarter than the English clubs.

 

[redIndianDevil]

With good rest, he is more likely to come back to form than he isn't and this is not being overly optimistic. In modern football, 30 is not old. He will have preseason with the squad, about six months of gelling with the team under his belt, the team will have better personnel and the motivation to prove critics wrong.

Sanchez might come good but my one worry is that he doesn't seem to have any real pace and has struggled playing far deeper on the left for us, at Arsenal he always seemed to hang around the box, but our wingers don't have that advantage and they are asked to carry the ball from deep inside our box.

 

[Kostov]

Don't see why there is so much debate about this: if he goes, it's best for both parties. He feels he's been misused by Jose and Jose doesn't particularly rate him. Part ways and it's all good.

The thing is, what might Jose think it’s best for the team at the minute, might not be best for the club/team in a year time.

 

[Andrew~]

The thing is, what might Jose think it’s best for the team at the minute, might not be best for the club/team in a year time.

Maybe, but we all knew what was coming when Jose was brought in.

 

[afrocentricity]

Yeah, his agent. Saying Martial wants to leave kind of suggests he doesn't want to play for us anymore.

No it doesn't. Could as much be that he doesn't think he'll play. Anything else?

 

[breakout67]

The thing is, what might Jose think it’s best for the team at the minute, might not be best for the club/team in a year time.

Inter is the only team that went to shite after Mourinho left, and that had more to do with the owner spending way beyond his means.

So long as we have a set of players that have space to improve with age we'll be fine.

Bailly, Lindeloff, Dalot, Fred, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and Lukaku are all not yet in their prime. Mourinho will most likely leave within 1-3 years. Whoever succeeds him will inherit a good squad.

 

[Kostov]

Inter is the only team that went to shite after Mourinho left, and that had more to do with the owner spending way beyond his means.

So long as we have a set of players that have space to improve with age we'll be fine.

Bailly, Lindeloff, Dalot, Fred, Pogba, Lingard, Rashford and Lukaku are all not yet in their prime. Mourinho will most likely leave within 1-3 years. Whoever succeeds him will inherit a good squad.

Ask Chelsea fans what they think about KDB, Lukaku and Salah exits. Stupid decision will come and bite you in the ass no matter how good you might think the squad is at the said time.

 

[Patrick08]

Probably true , doesn't mean they are poorer or something they are just smarter than the English clubs.

Also their league is a dead rubber league with complete dominance of a single club, so there is not much pressure on the players and the clubs. I mean 7 titles in a row is ridiculous.

They can carefully plan their team and transfers for a low cost without worrying others might catch them. Things are different in Epl.

 

[crossy1686]

LVG made young in to the LWB/LB that Jose would not have done back then - would still be playing him as a LB. LVG resurrected Youngs career. Hell I'd go even to say that the fact we don't play 352 & refuse to play young & Valencia as wingback instead of fullbacks is not getting the best out of them; never mind strikers getting help from anpther striking partner which Lukaku could use on any day of the week where we play against a top team.

Lingard has improved purely by Jose playing him in his best position the CAM - something that was always going to happen post LVG who found Lingard half way through his second season & put him therefor on the right; the same thing that happened with Rashford where he put him as a central striker & moved martial to the left as a make weight. The following season under LVG it was always going to be martial & Rashford as a striking partnership & Lingard playing behind as an AM.

Lingard hasn't improved under Jose - he has played in his best position & his actual best abilities are beneficial to Jose like the work rate & the runs to open space & cause problems much like Oscar who he favoured to de bryune.

We can disagree - but those two are arguable to say the least. Any more?

@crossy1686
Mate Lukaku struggled last year - made to play lilke the second coming of Drogba rather than playing his own game by running on the flanks & having a striking partner. Wait until a new manager comes in - Rashford, Lukaku & martial have the ability to form deadly understanding like Cole & Yorke but your man wants the sole target man like Drogba He will struggle next season being the sole presence of a goal threat.

Good as Everton if we do that.

Lukaku did fine last season. People keep saying this about those 3 but there's been no evidence to suggest so far that would actually happen.

 

[crossy1686]

Ask Chelsea fans what they think about KDB, Lukaku and Salah exits. Stupid decision will come and bite you in the ass no matter how good you might think the squad is at the said time.

People keep saying this about those lot but if anyone thought they would go on to be the players they've become someone would not have stopped the sale. Jose might have said they're not fitting in but there's still a group of people who have an opinion on their ability and the players themselves wanted to leave.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

We are talking about the recent season, I have already accepted that before January both Martial and Rashford were utilised well, they both were rotated and both performed admirably well along with the team.

Post arrival of Sanchez neither of them got any sort regular playing time, Sanchez with so much playing time was struggling, howd you expect Rashford and Martial to outperform him without playing continuously.

By taking their chances when they arrived. Both of them were not helped by injuries to be fair, But in the second half of the season, neither of them did a Lingard and forced Mourinho to pick them more often. Most disappointing was the performance whilst Lukaku was out. But they are young, I will never knock them for that happening. I usually expected it with young players.

 

[André Dominguez]

Not gonna lie and say I'm gonna miss him if he leaves. His influence in the game is not that great.

 

[Cliche Guevara]

Sanchez has barely been here four months.

Do people backing Martial not think it’s a bit too soon for him to want to leave Man United? Even if he’s not a guaranteed starter next season?

Also, do people actually think he had secured an automatic spot in the team over Rashford, prior to Sanchez arriving, in any event?

Once again, I think the fact that Martial’s short period of form came immediately before Sanchez’s arrival has coloured things dramatically in his favour.

It’s worth pointing out he hadn’t scored in eight games prior to 1st January, and has failed to score in his last thirteen appearances! I appreciate they aren’t all full matches, some are brief substitute appearances, but it’s still lacking.

 

[Foxbatt]

I am not surprised. Different players need kind of handling. I thought France missed a player like Martial who can run at defences at pace with the ball and he can dribble too.

 

[breakout67]

Ask Chelsea fans what they think about KDB, Lukaku and Salah exits. Stupid decision will come and bite you in the ass no matter how good you might think the squad is at the said time.

I've asked many Chelsea fans and none of them cared about Salah or Lukaku, because they had better players at the time that won for them. KdB was a stupid decision because he was one of the best players in Bundesliga and could play multiple positions yet couldnt get a game.

Also the decision is to keep Martial so your point is meaningless. Martial doesn't want to play second fiddle or he wants more money.

 

[charlenefan]

I am not surprised. Different players need kind of handling. I thought France missed a player like Martial who can run at defences at pace with the ball and he can dribble too.

They have that with Mbappe and Lemar?

 

[Cassidy]

They have that with Mbappe and Lemar?

And Dembele

 

[Foxbatt]

And Dembele

But they did not do that against Australia. I do not think Dembele is as good as Martial in that aspect.

 

[Mainoldo]

But they did not do that against Australia. I do not think Dembele is as good as Martial in that aspect.

There just young and inconsistent believe it or not lol. Demebele is probably the best dribbler out of the lot of them. Martial just behind.

 

[Kapardin]

Sanchez has barely been here four months.

Do people backing Martial not think it’s a bit too soon for him to want to leave Man United? Even if he’s not a guaranteed starter next season?

Also, do people actually think he had secured an automatic spot in the team over Rashford, prior to Sanchez arriving, in any event?

Once again, I think the fact that Martial’s short period of form came immediately before Sanchez’s arrival has coloured things dramatically in his favour.

It’s worth pointing out he hadn’t scored in eight games prior to 1st January, and has failed to score in his last thirteen appearances! I appreciate they aren’t all full matches, some are brief substitute appearances, but it’s still lacking.

Certainly is. When likes of Asensio, Isco, Bale etc have faced the bench role longer than he has, he is impatient for sure. But he also thinks he won't be selected ahead of Sanchez no matter what he does due to manager's bias.

However, he's also been mismanaged by Jose. I'd place 60% of the blame on Jose and 40% on him. He did not complain while competing with Rashford and did score in 3 consecutive games prior to Sanchez arriving. Once Sanchez arrived, he didn't even get a fair crack.

I am not even sure whether Martial will develop into a Salah (the Liverpool version) or just be another Nani. The anxiety lies in the fact that this could be a mistake.

 

[Cassidy]

Sanchez has barely been here four months.

Do people backing Martial not think it’s a bit too soon for him to want to leave Man United? Even if he’s not a guaranteed starter next season?

Also, do people actually think he had secured an automatic spot in the team over Rashford, prior to Sanchez arriving, in any event?

Once again, I think the fact that Martial’s short period of form came immediately before Sanchez’s arrival has coloured things dramatically in his favour.

It’s worth pointing out he hadn’t scored in eight games prior to 1st January, and has failed to score in his last thirteen appearances! I appreciate they aren’t all full matches, some are brief substitute appearances, but it’s still lacking.

If I was him I would leave, because I believe at that age regular football is really important for development.

EDIT: Similar to Lukaku sometimes you have to take a step down and develop and then try and go to a bigger club after. IMO he made mistake leaving Monaco so soon, but you live and you learn

In this day and age, its very difficult to get minutes at top clubs as a young player

 

[redIndianDevil]

By taking their chances when they arrived. Both of them were not helped by injuries to be fair, But in the second half of the season, neither of them did a Lingard and forced Mourinho to pick them more often. Most disappointing was the performance whilst Lukaku was out. But they are young, I will never knock them for that happening. I usually expected it with young players.

You just keep moving the goal posts instead of accepting that Mourinho fecked it up by buying Sanchez and making him the number 1 and that both Martial and Rashford's playing time were directly affected. The only thing Lingard did was be present, we had no other number 10's in the squad, he literally had zero competition.

 

[redIndianDevil]

Certainly is. When likes of Asensio, Isco, Bale etc have faced the bench role longer than he has, he is impatient for sure. But he also thinks he won't be selected ahead of Sanchez no matter what he does due to manager's bias.

However, he's also been mismanaged by Jose. I'd place 60% of the blame on Jose and 40% on him. He did not complain while competing with Rashford and did score in 3 consecutive games prior to Sanchez arriving. Once Sanchez arrived, he didn't even get a fair crack.

I am not even sure whether Martial will develop into a Salah (the Liverpool version) or just be another Nani. The anxiety lies in the fact that this could be a mistake.

Asensio, Bale, Isco have legitimate world class players ahead of them, Sanchez hardly did anything of note.

 

[Lash]

You just keep moving the goal posts instead of accepting that Mourinho fecked it up by buying Sanchez and making him the number 1 and that both Martial and Rashford's playing time were directly affected. The only thing Lingard did was be present, we had no other number 10's in the squad, he literally had zero competition.

we had mata and mhikitaryan

 

[Kapardin]

Asensio, Bale, Isco have legitimate world class players ahead of them, Sanchez hardly did anything of note.

True. Pointed out that Jose is biased myself. At the same time, a year on the bench won't kill Martial either. We are a big club competing at the top most of the time, he gets great exposure and is paid well. Surely if he is good enough even Jose's bias won't stop him from displacing a 31 year old Sanchez later down the line.

But ok, point taken.

 

[JPRouve]

If I was him I would leave, because I believe at that age regular football is really important for development.

EDIT: Similar to Lukaku sometimes you have to take a step down and develop and then try and go to a bigger club after. IMO he made mistake leaving Monaco so soon, but you live and you learn

In this day and age, its very difficult to get minutes at top clubs as a young player

And that's a mistake that I hate to see, too many young players are dazzled by the prospect of joining big clubs, they want money and fame way too soon and put their development in jeopardy. Martial isn't the only one, Kovacic, Digne, Alcacer are recent examples. Big clubs are in hoarding mod, they don't really care about developing players, if you need polishing or maturing they will just purchase someone else during the next window.

 

[Cassidy]

And that's a mistake that I hate to see, too many young players are dazzled by the prospect of joining big clubs, they want money and fame way too soon and put their development in jeopardy. Martial isn't the only one, Kovacic, Digne, Alcacer are recent examples. Big clubs are in hoarding mod, they don't really care about developing players, if you need polishing or maturing they will just purchase someone else during the next window.

Yes he is a really good example, he should also be looking to leave Real this summer for his career.

 

[JPRouve]

True. Pointed out that Jose is biased myself. At the same time, a year on the bench won't kill Martial either. We are a big club competing at the top most of the time, he gets great exposure and is paid well. Surely if he is good enough even Jose's bias won't stop him from displacing a 31 year old Sanchez later down the line.

But ok, point taken.

A year on the bench, is a year where he doesn't develop intensively his in game issues, it will hurt him. He needs to play week in week out, in order to sharpen his reading of the game and develop his confidence.

 

[Mainoldo]

Yes he is a really good example, he should also be looking to leave Real this summer for his career.

Kovacic was failing at Inter he was lucky Real wanted him. I would have moved too. Realistically he performance level should have seen him at Sampdoria.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

You just keep moving the goal posts instead of accepting that Mourinho fecked it up by buying Sanchez and making him the number 1 and that both Martial and Rashford's playing time were directly affected.

You are so desperate to believe this victim narrative about young players under Mourinho that you are now imagining a shift in my position on this matter. My argument is STILL unchanged. Their failure to force Mourinho to play them more often is on them. They didn't do enough with the chances they got post Alexis' being signed, period.

The only thing Lingard did was be present, we had no other number 10's in the squad, he literally had zero competition.

Hilarious nonsense. Lingard plays right wing, left wing, number 10 and center midfield. To claim he plays due to 'no competition, is to down right lie. He faces steep competition in center midfield, competed with Pogba, Mata and the departed Fellaini for the role just behind the striker, has Alexis, Martial and Rashford on the left, plus Mata and Rashford as competitors for the right flank. Yet his performances alone forced JM to STILL play him be it in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. Even when we went 3-5-2. You need to stop inventing excuses for the likes of Martial and Rashford.

 

[Kostov]

I've asked many Chelsea fans and none of them cared about Salah or Lukaku, because they had better players at the time that won for them. KdB was a stupid decision because he was one of the best players in Bundesliga and could play multiple positions yet couldnt get a game.

Also the decision is to keep Martial so your point is meaningless. Martial doesn't want to play second fiddle or he wants more money.

You did? I bet they love seeing all 3 of them tearing the PL now. That’s part of the point, some decisions of the manager will be shortsighted and not the best for the club, Jose did exactly that at Chelsea, some United fans like me don want that to happen to our club. I admit what a fecking scandalous thinking.

Yeah the decision is to keep him according to “reports”, but actions speak louder than words, and Martial has every right to demand a move if he feels he was unfairly treated. Also some United fans like me think he was, some will tell you it was all on Martial, which frankly is a bag of rubbish, considering how he was demoted to RW and on the bench after Alexis’s arrival.

 

[Johannes Martinus]

Post arrival of Sanchez I meant

He played more than 180 minutes of the first 270 of the PL Sanchez games and did nothing. That includes messing his pants at Saint James Park and he still got the start in the following PL match against Chelsea.

 

[redIndianDevil]

we had mata and mhikitaryan

Sold off Mkhi in January. Mata has never played as a number 10 under Mourinho or even LvG if I remember correctly.

 

[redIndianDevil]

True. Pointed out that Jose is biased myself. At the same time, a year on the bench won't kill Martial either. We are a big club competing at the top most of the time, he gets great exposure and is paid well. Surely if he is good enough even Jose's bias won't stop him from displacing a 31 year old Sanchez later down the line.

But ok, point taken.

If Martial stays it will be good for us but not for him I think, he was pretty much a bench option last season too, which is why he is planning to leave.

 

[redIndianDevil]

And that's a mistake that I hate to see, too many young players are dazzled by the prospect of joining big clubs, they want money and fame way too soon and put their development in jeopardy. Martial isn't the only one, Kovacic, Digne, Alcacer are recent examples. Big clubs are in hoarding mod, they don't really care about developing players, if you need polishing or maturing they will just purchase someone else during the next window.

Exactly I don't get why so many youngsters are going to Real Madrid, Isco, Kovacic, Asensio, even last season a midfielder whose name escapes me went to Madrid. At least clubs like Juve play them.

 

[redIndianDevil]

You are so desperate to believe this victim narrative about young players under Mourinho that you are now imagining a shift in my position on this matter. My argument is STILL unchanged. Their failure to force Mourinho to play them more often is on them. They didn't do enough with the chances they got post Alexis' being signed, period.



Hilarious nonsense. Lingard plays right wing, left wing, number 10 and center midfield. To claim he plays due to 'no competition, is to down right lie. He faces steep competition in center midfield, competed with Pogba, Mata and the departed Fellaini for the role just behind the striker, has Alexis, Martial and Rashford on the left, plus Mata and Rashford as competitors for the right flank. Yet his performances alone forced JM to STILL play him be it in a 4-3-3 or a 4-2-3-1. Even when we went 3-5-2. You need to stop inventing excuses for the likes of Martial and Rashford.

No point in arguing with you any longer if you think Lingard is competing with the entire squad for playing time and plays in all those positions. He had a few decent games playing behind the striker, hardly ever played as a RW(if he did he was really crap that I'm sure of) and never as a central midfielder.

Let's just agree to disagree as this is getting tiresome and going nowhere.