Boycott Raiola

[JPRouve]

On the bolded, again, that's not what's really being discussed in the thread, is it? For the record anything Medes is guilty of I fully expect the same to go for Mino. If it were up to me there would be no player agents, the players would have to engage their own brains as adults and broker their own deals or choose to pay these agents out of their own pockets (not the clubs), but that's irrelevant.

Raiola has made an obsence amount from United for the transfer of players in agent fees, apparently a fee for Pogba alone raising to around £40million! He's just one of five players of his we've signed in recent years. I don't remember the figures but remember reading at the time the amount he was getting from us for these various players was obscene. The money is one thing, the way he behaves is another, fans rightly find him hard to stomach and are just sick of hearing from him.

The bolded part is from Juventus not United and includes three deals and Pogba's own share, they had it in their annual report. According to Juventus they had a deal with Raiola and Pogba, they didn't had cash in 2012 and couldn't offer a large wage or signing fee, so they offered to pay both Raiola and Pogba a share of future transfer/contract extension. United paid something because they allegedly used Raiola as an intermediary but it's not the 40m.

And regarding the no player agents point, you are essentially suggesting that players shouldn't benefit from proper representation which is exactly how exploitation happen, it's not a simple matter of using your brain unless you think that anyone has actually an idea about wage markets, image rights values and labor laws. To be honest it's a very misguided suggestion, that only benefits clubs and their teams of corporate lawyers. As for who pays and when, it's a negotiation and if a club does pay something to the agent on behalf of the player than it's legally a remuneration to the player.

 

[RUCK4444]

The bolded part is from Juventus not United and includes three deals and Pogba's own share, they had it in their annual report. According to Juventus they had a deal with Raiola and Pogba, they didn't had cash in 2012 and couldn't offer a large wage or signing fee, so they offered to pay both Raiola and Pogba a share of future transfer/contract extension. United paid something because they allegedly used Raiola as an intermediary but it's not the 40m.

And regarding the no player agents point, you are essentially suggesting that players shouldn't benefit from proper representation which is exactly how exploitation happen, it's not a simple matter of using your brain unless you think that anyone has actually an idea about wage markets, image rights values and labor laws. To be honest it's a very misguided suggestion, that only benefits clubs and their teams of corporate lawyers. As for who pays and when, it's a negotiation and if a club does pay something to the agent on behalf of the player than it's legally a remuneration to the player.

I've read it was £22 million initial fee directly from United to Mino, then a further five instalments over time from the club to Mino totalling a further £16 million (with then a further £2 million from Paul to Mino directly.)

Players can have their own representation, that's not what I'm arguing, what I'm arguing is that the players should be paying for their services not the clubs. Especially to the tune of tens and tens of millions. Ultimately that money comes out of our transfer budget for other potential players. Add up what we've paid to agents and it will be eye watering, and for what? It's basically a back hander to the agent to bring him to this club instead of another club.

In what world does a 3rd party pay for your own legal representation? Never, unless that 3rd party have wronged you in some way and are liable to pay those costs legally. Like I said, it's just a back hander to grease the palms of these swindlers to choose your club instead of another.

 

[SuperiorXI]

Players have always been a greater asset than the manager and do you actually know players that have purposely downed tools in order to remove a manager? Or do you know about players that were out of form, out of confidence and/or coached by a subpar manager? Also the hierarchy isn't upside down, there is no actual difference today it was already easier to sack one manager than replace 20+ players, that's why managers tenures have always been relatively short.

Players have always run down contracts because that's how all contracts with end terms work, the main difference is that because there is more money in Football today, clubs are less inclined to ask for reasonable fees which limits the amount of clubs willing to pay for big players that are going to become free agents. And leaving at the term of your contract isn't holding a club to ransom, clubs have no rights on your work beyond the terms of your contract which I hope is acceptable.

Finally, Footballers aren't paid so much, the inflation in wages is roughly in line with the increase of money added in Football from broadcasting and sponsorship,

Wrong. See SAF, Klopp, Pep etc, countless examples where the manager is a greater asset than any one player.

I don't know for sure re players downing tools but you let your eyes be the judge. See Harry Kane right now, you telling me he can't do better for Spurs? In fact I recall Jack Rodwell in that Sunderland doc, on camera he was talking about not be arsed to play and collecting a wage.

Sure the contract has an end date, I agree with this however since they are also paid so much they have another weapon to use against the manager/coaches, basically "I'll leave on a free if I don't get what I want".

I disagree re they aren't paid so much, sure you can argue that they are paid in line with broadcasting and sponsorship but that doesn't mean it makes sense. I'd much prefer their pay was significantly reduced and the money went into grass-roots football and development of the club and local area. They also should invest in the fan experience a lot more.

 

[nuanced]

People think Raiola mouthing off is disrespectful, when he literally threw around chairs in the Juve office during a negotiation

Raiola has been a big positive on the players taking on the institutional clubs. He has been a key player in the rise of player power over the last 15 years. Raiola has done absolutely crazy stuff during negotiations in the past, which has been distasteful for both the parties. The only reason he keeps on attracting top clients, is because he delivers results for his clients.

The last few years haven't been kind to him though. He convinced Pogba to sign for United in 2016 with the promise that he would get Pogba's desired transfer in 3 years. Unlucky for him - Pep holds grudges and Covid screwed most European clubs financially. Now, they're in a situation where there aren't many clubs which can match United's renewal offer and the ones which can, aren't interested in Pogba. It seems like Pogba wants out and Raiola is stuck between a rock and a hard place to get his commission.
He inserted himself in the De Light transfer and nudged him towards Juve hoping to have a bumper transfer to another club in a few years ala Pogba. De Light hasn't reached his potential at Juve yet due to their upheaval. But there is hope with Allegri rebuilding the side again.

Haaland transfer next year would be crucial for his reputation from player's POV. He has a 80 M euro release clause, and among whichever club Haland prefers, whomever is willing to pay the most agent fees will win. IF Chelsea had really offered Dortmund 180 M euro this year, then Raiola will use that as the anchor point for negotiations which would be insane money for both him and Haaland's family. If he influences his transfer negatively, then it will be harm his reputation among players.

 

[JPRouve]

Wrong. See SAF, Klopp, Pep etc, countless examples where the manager is a greater asset than any one player.

I don't know for sure re players downing tools but you let your eyes be the judge. See Harry Kane right now, you telling me he can't do better for Spurs? In fact I recall Jack Rodwell in that Sunderland doc, on camera he was talking about not be arsed to play and collecting a wage.

Sure the contract has an end date, I agree with this however since they are also paid so much they have another weapon to use against the manager/coaches, basically "I'll leave on a free if I don't get what I want".

I disagree re they aren't paid so much, sure you can argue that they are paid in line with broadcasting and sponsorship but that doesn't mean it makes sense. I'd much prefer their pay was significantly reduced and the money went into grass-roots football and development of the club and local area. They also should invest in the fan experience a lot more.

But surely your point wasn't about one player? Because I really need to know which one player downed tools in order to get a manager sacked and actually succeeded. Kane is out of form, his head may be somewhere else but I highly doubt that it's on purpose, keep in mind that players aren't robots, they are humans like you and I.

Your point about contracts make no sense, why would you stay in a workplace where you don't have what you want? And which player actually used what you suggested against a manager/coach? A player may want to leave because he wants a better contract, a better chance at winning trophies, for lifestyle reasons, maybe he doesn't get along with someone in the club but these stuffs are normal and concerns everyone whether they are footballers or accountants.

So you think that the people generating the money in Football should earn a smaller share? I understand why you would prefer that, the question is whether it's fair to take money away from the people creating the added value. Also if people are that concerned for grassroot football, which they are not, they can fund it directly, I'm not kidding, I'm pretty sure that most people have a local club that will welcome their money and time but it's not fair to look at professional footballers while we don't do it ourselves, people pay for professional football because they want their money to go to professional football otherwise they would spend their money on amateur football.