Brazil Argentina...... Abandoned

[fishfingers15]

Is this the same Brazil led by Bolsanaro being criticized for being too lax and having called it the regular flu or something? I'm confused by the lackadaisical approach to Covid by the government of Brazil and the guns blazing, halt the match and 'You can't pass' type of attitude of the authorities in stopping a bloody football match. Which is it you plonkers.

 

[antohan]

Exactly what I said before. Brazil took advantage of Argentina's stupidity

The only defence I might make is I read, not sure if true, there is some allowance for football matches but not sure if true

There is indeed a specific agreement across Conmebol countries and their health authorities but it relates to continental competitions and bubbles that travel within the region. Players having been in UK, South Africa or India is clearly a rarity, a Brazil-specific exception to the rule that nobody would have even noticed if it weren't for how it became public knowledge that no Brazilians were accepting call-ups and the Argies instead posted pics all over social media showing how they were real patriots. It's a very public breach, I imagine Twitter in Brazil was full of people complaining about all this.

The Brazilian federal police showed up at Argentina's hotel way before the game to deport the guys. They of course didn't submit to their demands.

After much coming and going (with Conmebol intervening) the authorities stepped down on the basis that since they were already in the country they could stay in the hotel and quarantine there. Technically, that was an elegant solution, except that they didin't quarantine and showed up hours later on a football pitch, easy to identify given their names are plastered on their backs.

It's pretty clear Conmebol were privy to the issue and Argentina effectively were given the OK. So much so that the Conmebol statement specifically alludes to the ref suspending (not the walkout) and how all that matters in FIFA/CONMEBOL competitions are THEIR rules. I.e. Argentina won't lose the points here.

Can you make the Brazilian NT lose their points because the Brazilian health authorities act according to the law when some suits at Conmebol think they are above it? No, you can't really.

My guess is they will strip Brazil from playing home (backlash with unruly authorities that won't submit to these all-powerful beings that run football) and re-schedule at a later date (possibly even a money-spinner in Qatar for all they care), by which time both will be qualified and either side will walk out of that nuisance.

 

[Number32]

TBF, holding competitive qualifying games isn't just a cynical thing about money - any more than any of the other many sporting competitions still continuing during 2021. I know many fans hate international breaks - but many love the major Summer tournaments, and for those to happen qualifiers need to take place to decide who will be participating.

I can't see why international football should have to stop when all the club sides are still allowed to travel between countries for the European competitions; the Olympics / Paralympics / Winter Olympics still allowed to take place; Golf, Tennis, etc, allowed to play tournaments with people travelling from many countries to compete, etc. And society as a whole still allowed to jump on planes to go to other countries for work reasons or just on holidays, etc.

Things are getting to carry on in a way that tries to work within the 'new normal', I don't see why international football should have been stopped for a few years when all other world sports continue - other than it into being a handy argument for those who just dislike international football during the club season anyway.

So why can't they make a mini tournament to all the qualifiers? I know home-away system woud be fairer for all the nations, but they did a mini tournament qualifiers for Olympic.

It would be a win win solution, just make mini tournament for a month at International break, There are 4-5 weeks of International breaks in a season anyway, so it would be the same. It would also benefit the player's fitness.

The only reason they didn't do it because a mini tournent generates less money.

 

[Acrobat7]

Is this the same Brazil led by Bolsanaro being criticized for being too lax and having called it the regular flu or something? I'm confused by the lackadaisical approach to Covid by the government of Brazil and the guns blazing, halt the match and 'You can't pass' type of attitude of the authorities in stopping a bloody football match. Which is it you plonkers.

Bolsanaro is in the middle of an election campaign that he is currently losing. His rhetoric is along the lines of „either i win or they will kill me“. That’s where the publicly effective removal of the arch-enemy’s players comes in handy.
Disclaimer: i did not say that the Argentinian FA didn’t feck this up.

 

[antohan]

Is this the same Brazil led by Bolsanaro being criticized for being too lax and having called it the regular flu or something? I'm confused by the lackadaisical approach to Covid by the government of Brazil and the guns blazing, halt the match and 'You can't pass' type of attitude of the authorities in stopping a bloody football match. Which is it you plonkers.

It's the federal government in action and they will be looking at it as a case of sovereignty and national pride, not Covid.

While not relevant here, remember Brazil is a federation, so not all that happens is down to Bolsonaro. In fact, states in the hands of anti-Bolsonaro Governors often do the opposite, leading to Brazil usually acting bipolar on any matter.

With Covid in particular, that's bound to be a disaster. I have business in Brazil and the vaccination plans (priority pop'n, doses, timing between, etc) for our employees in one state were completely different to another. No wonder they are a strain superlab.

 

[antohan]

The only reason they didn't do it because a mini tournent generates less money.

They are greedy bastards, but you are wrong on this one. No one in South America will accept their NTs fate being resolved like that. There's a lot of romance and shithousery around the home games.

Bolivia and Ecuador would lose ~3000mts. Colombia the heat of Barranquilla. Paraguay their inhospitable fortress. Most will miss the very Covid friendly campings outside visitor hotels...

It wouldn't fly with anyone really. We also love the agony stretching over two years and the ups and downs as form changes, managers get sacked and replaced, players get injured, etc.

 

[FootballHQ]

That's the kind of agenda type stuff you hear from ABU's about us benefitting from all the time. I'm always puzzled why I see similar used on here so much about big team / nation bias in other countries as it just adds credence to the 'United bias' claims from the ABU's.

I'm pretty certain they wouldn't have kicked any team out the qualifiers whoever was involved - and certainly not both, as, depending on the facts, one side is a lot more to blame than the other (either the side for 'wrongly' picking the players despite the clear arguments against; or, if that was deemed valid, the other side for 'wrongly' demanding they not pick players they were entitled to select).

After the investigation, the side most in the right should be given a 3-0 win. And, depending on just how much in the wrong the other nation are deemed to be, then a big fine or even potential points deduction could apply?

Didn't Chile get banned years back for the keeper faking an injury in a qualifier?

I suspect with the backlog of games already there's really no chance of getting this game replayed unless you put it in at a really difficult midweek date when domestic seasons are back in full flow (so international version of Man. United-Liverpool last season) so suspect Fifa will have to decide which nation was more at fault and will award other a default 3-0 win. Easier to do given for once Argentina and Brazil are having pretty easy qualification round.

Once the first few rounds got cancelled last year Commebol should've probably just gone back to two 5 team groups so only 8 matches to fit in but too late now given it's pretty much at halfway point.

 

[UweBein]

The worst part about this? This involves Aston Villa players who went there knowing they will have to miss the premier league match vs Chelsea.

annoying!

The best part actually, from my perspective.

 

[stevoc]

I know. That was my point as well. I was just extending it to the international game and saying it's strange to contradict what we're both saying to justify everything else starting back up by saying the international game shouldn't start back up due to covid not having gone away yet.

Well we're off topic mate so let's not drag this one out. I don't think we're really disagreeing on much. I was just saying the world could have probably lived without lnternational for a year (like a lot of things) but we know why that would never happen.

 

[antohan]

Didn't Chile get banned years back for the keeper faking an injury in a qualifier?

I suspect with the backlog of games already there's really no chance of getting this game replayed unless you put it in at a really difficult midweek date when domestic seasons are back in full flow (so international version of Man. United-Liverpool last season) so suspect Fifa will have to decide which nation was more at fault and will award other a default 3-0 win. Easier to do given for once Argentina and Brazil are having pretty easy qualification round.

Once the first few rounds got cancelled last year Commebol should've probably just gone back to two 5 team groups so only 8 matches to fit in but too late now given it's pretty much at halfway point.

They'll keep it over the pocket as a TBC replay until both are safely through. If either got in trouble (unlikely) it would then be arranged to suit that party better. Will probably never be played or will wind up being an exhibition game in L.A. or something.

 

[Number32]

They are greedy bastards, but you are wrong on this one. No one in South America will accept their NTs fate being resolved like that. There's a lot of romance and shithousery around the home games.

Bolivia and Ecuador would lose ~3000mts. Colombia the heat of Barranquilla. Paraguay their inhospitable fortress. Most will miss the very Covid friendly campings outside visitor hotels...

It wouldn't fly with anyone really. We also love the agony stretching over two years and the ups and downs as form changes, managers get sacked and replaced, players get injured, etc.

So, It's pride and dignity before people's health?

If most of people in South America thought like that, Brazilian authorities are the one to be blamed here. Why can't they wait for 90 minutes in an emtpty stadium before excecute the punishment for Argentinian team? The game is already running for few minutes anyway, there will be no different if they did deported the Argentinian after the game. You can't defend the authorities here, they didn't do their job for the sake of their people, just seeking attention from media.

 

[antohan]

So, It's pride and dignity before people's health?

What does that have to do with the price of coffee?

The angle I was addressing was how annoying it is to get league stoppages due to international calendar. It's a wider issue that applied before Covid and will apply after.

If most of people in South America thought like that, Brazilian authorities are the one to be blamed here. Why can't they wait for 90 minutes in an emtpty stadium before excecute the punishment for Argentinian team? The game is already running for few minutes anyway, there will be no different if they did deported the Argentinian after the game. You can't defend the authorities here, they didn't do their job for the sake of their people, just seeking attention from media.

It's the rule of law and it applies to everyone. Why would some Argie footballers get special dispensation? Did the Brazilians get it from the UK government? No? Reciprocity in play then, Brazilian foreign policy has always been anchored around sticking to that come what may.

Of course if they were some random Argies lying on a form nobody would ever notice. But it's public knowledge they couldn't be in the country, let alone on the pitch. Imagine of one scored... actually, imagine Dibu made a save!

Is there showmanship and political motivations in the background? Sure, read my other posts earlier, but Argentina and Conmebol stepped right into it.