Brazil: Flattering to deceive?

[Lynk]

Well? What say you caftards and cafnewbs? I shall post their strongest XI and together we'll carve up their prospects.

Green - Good player/Solid
Red - Average or below player
Orange - Fitness/Form doubts

Julio Cesar - Spectacular fall from grace since the last world cup, was part of an Inter Milan team that won the treble going into to the 2010 world cup, now plays for Toronto FC on loan from QPR, not good enough anymore.
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Dani Alves - I like him, always have done, but he looks burned out in recent weeks playing for Barcelona, but I still think he's one of Brazils most important players.

Thiago Silva - World class, plays week in, week out in France for a team that stormed the league. No issues.

Dante - Suspect, a bit of a Brazillian Pique, great when the team are playing well and dominant, but lacks the strength when the team are under pressure

Marcelo - Hasn't been hugely in favour this year for Madrid, Coentrao seems to have been preffered in recent weeks. I never really rated him defensively.
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Luis Gustavo - Signed for Wolfsburg from Bayern Munich, he'll be in the Europa league with them next year. Alright player but is he good enough to compete with other teams midfields?

Ramires - Look exhausted in recent weeks playing for Chelsea. He's in this team for his work rate and his stamina, both of which might be dented after a long hard season playing for Chelsea.

Oscar - Arguably Brazil's most important creatively outlet, Gustavo and Ramires are sitting players rather than playmakers. He was fantastic for Brazil in the Olympics and in the confederations cup but has gone off in 2014 for Chelsea. Worry.
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Hulk - A very inconsistent player. Reminds me of Zlatan in his younger days, a greedy player with the touch of the spectacular. When he's on an off day, he's like playing with 10 men, when he's on form he's unplayable.

Neymar - Brazil's talisman. Has the weight on his young shoulders, coming off a poor season for Barcelona in which he has been overpriced, underperforming and at the centre of Barcelona's legal problems, he now steps into this tournament with Brazillian eyes firmly fixed on him. If he plays like he did in the confederations cup, Brazil have a shot, if we get Neymar under Martino they aren't going anywhere. Simple as that.

Fred - Former Lyon striker, now at Fluminese, long standing Brazillian overachiever, their Crouch of sorts. Club form goes out the window, he has the ability to score goals.
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NOTABLE SUBS:

David Luiz - Defensively suspect. Has the ability but not the head, similar to Dante. If the team is playing well, fine, but suspect under pressure. Played fantastically in the 2013 Confederations cup however

Willian - I like him. Hard-working with a bit of flare. Has had a long season with Chelsea, but has been a positive for them for sure.

Fernandinho - The backbone to Yaya Toure's most lauded season to date, an underpraised key to City's title win. A solid dependable holding player.


Closing consensus: If you were going on squad alone, Brazil aren't good enough. Thing is, we aren't, the home setting is a huge factor as seen at the confederations cup. The thing that could be said though, is the team as a whole is in much worse form collectively than they were at that tournament. What say you though caftards?

 

[TheSamulator]

i prefer to think of them as deceiving to flatter.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I really rate and like Willian and would take him over Fred with Hulk as a CF or just simply over Hulk or Ramires or Gustavo or Oscar in that line up if possible.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Julio Cesar is currently playing on Toronto FC, not QPR.

Dante is a fantastic defender but David Luiz will start over him.

Neymar is a doubt for form but Dani Alves is not? wut?

 

[Lynk]

Julio Cesar is currently playing on Toronto FC, not QPR.

Dante is a fantastic defender but David Luiz will start over him.

Neymar is a doubt for form but Dani Alves is not? wut?

Both are. I just think Dani is just about in the green. Just.


Shit really? That's worse than QPR to be honest!

 

[Rykker_4united]

Both are. I just think Dani is just about in the green. Just.


Shit really? That's worse than QPR to be honest!

I think brazil are a massively overrated squad.

 

[MJJ]

I really rate and like Willian and would take him over Fred with Hulk as a CF or just simply over Hulk or Ramires or Gustavo or Oscar in that line up if possible.

Yeah willian should be one of the wingers for sure, dont they have a better striker than fred? How has pato being doing since moving back home.

 

[Lynk]

I think brazil are a massively overrated squad.

Agreed. Home fans can only do so much. Amazes me that Brazil are such odds on favourites at the bookies.

 

[Kazi]

I think in the World Cup, Brazil will show us what it means to play for your country.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I think brazil are a massively overrated squad.

Agree. But you could make a squad of Brazilians that aren't even selected for World Cup 2014 like Pato, Diego, Kaka, Alex. Then make a line-up with those players, call that line up overrated and they would still be able to win the world cup with that quality wise.

And what the feck was Diego Costa's problem with Brazil, like people have said 10000 times, he would be perfect for them.

 

[Aboutreika18]

Dante's not been as good as last season but is still a much better defender than Luiz, who will probably start ahead of him.

Players like Diego Alves, Miranda and Filipe Luis should've been brought in to bolster that back five.

They're relying too much on Thiago Silva to hold that defence together.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Agree. But you could make a squad of Brazilians that aren't even selected like Pato, Diego, Kaka, Alex. Then make a line-up with those players, call that line up overrated and they would still be able to win the world cup with that quality wise.

I don't know if any of the players you listed are capable of winning the world cup. Would any except Diego even make the England squad?

 

[Lynk]

Added Luiz and Willian summaries, any other players of worthy of note that might feature?

 

[Moby]

Agreed. Home fans can only do so much. Amazes me that Brazil are such odds on favourites at the bookies.

It's not just the home fans, but more than that the weather conditions. It's not a coincidence that all WCs that have ever been held in South America have been won by South American nations. Europeans a lot of times fail to cope with those conditions, the heat in particular.

Brazil gave a preview of their strength in the Confed Cup when they thrashed Spain in the final.

 

[Moby]

Added Luiz and Willian summaries, any other players of worthy of note that might feature?

Fernandinho? Comfortably better as a CM than Ramires or Gustavo.

 

[Lynk]

Fernandinho? Comfortably better as a CM than Ramires or Gustavo.

Good shout. Will add him into the mix.

 

[bosnian_red]

Don't think they'll win it. They don't have 1 top class player in their attack, and their best ones (Neymar and Oscar) are out of form. Solid defence, and Thiago Silva is world class, but I'm not sure if it'll be enough. The pressure and expectation for them to win it will be enormous being at home too, I just can't see them doing it. Against Germany or Argentina I think they'd end up losing.

 

[Cheesy]

I think home advantage will certainly help them and the rest of the South American sides out because of them being used to those conditions. Even then, they're certainly not favourites, although if they're lucky and some of their form doubts play well then they've still got a pretty good side.

 

[Nickosaur]

Added Luiz and Willian summaries, any other players of worthy of note that might feature?

I rate Fernandinho and Hernanes higher than the players that will probably start in the centre for them (Gustavo and Ramires).

 

[MJJ]

What about damiao? Has he gone off the boil as well.

Or can play this I suppose.

-----Neymar----
Willian-Oscar-Moura
---fernandinho-Luiz-
Marcelo-Silva-Marquinhos/Dante-D.Alves

 

[The Black Pearl]

It's a jersey job with them I think. They might not look like the strongest outfit on paper but once they pull on the Brazil jersey they as unit will become a different animal and an animal that'll take some beating especially if they play like what they did in the Confederations cup. I'm not to sure I saw a defensive display like the one Luiz put in against Spain in that competition since.

 

[Steven Seagull]

Couple of years ago I didn't think they were anywhere near being good enough but I'm leaning towards them a bit now. Defensively they've been really solid (in friendlies) and I can't see too many teams keeping them out for 90 minutes. One of the more balanced squads in the competition and one of the few fancied teams who look stronger at the back than up front.

 

[Lynk]

It's a jersey job with them I think. They might not look like the strongest outfit on paper but once they pull on the Brazil jersey they as unit will become a different animal and an animal that'll take some beating especially if they play like what they did in the Confederations cup. I'm not to sure I saw a defensive display like the one Luiz put in against Spain in that competition since.

Brazil in that tournament for me was like the perfect storm of form. They have more mercurial players in their squad than all the other mercurial players in the other teams added together. On paper they shouldn't be anywhere near enough, but like you said. They put on their jersey and play in front of a home crowd and are buoyed on.

 

[Shaun the Sheep]

Their midfield could be better but, overall they have a really good squad. Plus they are on home turf, where no European team has ever won a world cup. If Neymar can show up like he did in the Confederations Cup then they will win. The pressure will be on them though, everyone in Brazil expects them to win and that could be a problem if they start poorly. I would still say it's Brazil's to lose.

 

[MkPaul]

They are one of the favorites and if you consider player form, i'd rate the current England team higher than theirs.

 

[Varun]

I'd play Fernandinho ahead of Gustavo. Havent seen much of Hulk of late but unless he's improved a lot, Willian over him too.

 

[Lynk]

They are one of the favorites and if you consider player form, i'd rate the current England team higher than theirs.

Player form is one thing admittedly. England will simply not play well in that humidity.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I don't know if any of the players you listed are capable of winning the world cup. Would any except Diego even make the England squad?

Well I don't know obviously. But

----------- Alex (PSG)----- Luisao (Benfica) ----- Marquinhos (PSG) -----------

Rafael (Utd) ------------------------------------------------------ Bastos (Roma)

------------ Melo/Paulinho (Spurs/Gala) ----------- Fernando (Porto)

-------------------------- Diego/Kaka/Ronaldinho ------------------------------

----------------- Pato/Robinho/ aargh I can't take it anymore just too much quality----------


And then they would stil have Lucas + Coutinho (liverpool)

Fernandinho (man City) has not been mentioned in this thread yet

Sandro (Spurs)

And a whole shitload of players like Thiago Motta who plays for Italy, Diego Costa for Spain. It's ridiculouis. Truly utter Ridiculous, I was trying to type this post but more and more names of quality Brazillian players come to mind, they have 100 players man, driving me nuts..


But to answer your question: I think Alex, Luisao and Marquinhos are on par with with Jagielka and Cahill.

Rafael is better than Johnson, Baines is better than Bastos, all in all defense = Brazil.

Midfield is comparable, depends on whether Diego/Kaka would be fit or in form, Henderson is comparable with Fernando or Paulinho, Gerrard and Wilshere are class, all in all = comparable.

Same goes for attack, if Pato would be fit, he would be easily on Sturridges level. Same goes for the other ones. So all in all, yes, I think that Brazil has not selected players who could be a better group than Engelands WC2014 squad. Simply because the number of quality players they have is unmatched in the world.

 

[Anti-DNA]

Wrong starting eleven, awful judgement. We're not good enough if you go on squad alone? Right...

 

[Rykker_4united]

True, they have a surplus of talent that probably doubles most other national squads. Its a footballing nation no doubt.

 

[Smithy89]

Oscar went off the boil a bit for chelsea but i expect him to have a good tournament. Wouldn't be surprised if Neymar is woeful, the lad has a ton of expectations on him.

 

[Lynk]

Wrong starting eleven, awful judgement. We're not good enough if you go on squad alone? Right...

You're not good enough on squad alone.

 

[Henrik Larsson]

I'd play Fernandinho ahead of Gustavo. Havent seen much of Hulk of late but unless he's improved a lot, Willian over him too.

Yes he is included in their World Cup squad right (can't force myself to look it up after my last post)?
Has had a far better season than Ramires or Gustavo, flawless player.

Fernandinho should be the 1st on their starting list.

 

[Varun]

Yes he is included in their World Cup squad right (can't force myself to look it up after my last post)?
Has had a far better season than Ramires or Gustavo, flawless player.

Fernandinho should be the 1st on their starting list.

I havent checked their squad but must have, its a no brainer really.

 

[Rykker_4united]

Its a shame that players like Fernandinho won't start. I wouldn't start ramires or Gustavo. I'd rather Paulinho and Fernandinho in there but Scolari has his mind set I'm sure.

 

[pcaming]

I don't think they are all that on paper, but if they perform the way they did in the confed cup they will be up there.

think a team like Germany/Italy will best them though

 

[Annahnomoss]

That is way off in my eyes. Someone like Gustavo has showed next to Paulinho just how effective they can be in the Confed cup. With Willian rising up for the RAM position, being damn ideal for their counter-attacking and hard working set up that is certainly a big improvement. As is Fernandinho not just handling the step up, but absolutely flourishing in the EPL in his first season there.

Their line-up isn't fun and flair, but it gets the job done and if they play as good as in the confed then they are a real competitor. The real question here is how Neymar handles the confidence issue it must be to go from being the biggest fish in the Brazilian league to being second string to Messi in Barcelona and not at all dominating like he did the first half of the season.

He used to walk in to the NT full of confidence of his own greatness, this time he will walk in there knowing he isn't as good as the very best. Everything stands and falls with Neymar for Brazil.

 

[Ridwando]

Coutinho really should have been in the squad. Could've stepped in for Oscar if it turns out that Oscar's poor form from the last few months is going to carry over the WC. As it is, Brazil relies too heavily on Oscar to provide them the creative outlet.

 

[Giflet]

Its strange looking at that Brazil squad. I remember growing up and feeling so excited watching Brazil at the world cup. Players like Romario, Ronaldo, Ronaldinho, Rivaldo etc. That excitement just does not exist with this team. There is no player in there which gives you that feeling. Some will argue Neymar, but I dont think he's on the same level as the ones which I have mentioned.

I suppose the same could be said about the last Brazil world cup team, but maybe at the time I thought it was just a short term blip for them, its now appearing more long term.

 

[txred]

The last Brazil team I was excited to watch was 2006 (and we know how that turned out). Guess that only leaves the past two squads as disappointments, but anyway.

They, like in the Confed Cup last year, are going to rely much on Neymar and the home crowds in my opinion. Granted, the Confed Cup is much different than the real thing, but Neymar scored some fantastic goals and the fans were brilliant in willing Brazil to victory. They don't play jogo bonito anymore, as evident by the amount of defensive midfielders called up, but that doesn't mean they cannot be effective. Let's not forget that Brazil was able to win it all in 2002 with our very own Kleberson in midfield, so the lack of Socrates, Zico, Ronaldinho, etc may not be as big of deal as one might think. They're different, certainly, though the right tactics by Scolari, defensive discipline, and opportunism in attack could very well see them raise the trophy on home soil. I don't think we'll really know what this Brazil squad is made of until they fall behind and are forced to attack an organized opponent defending a lead. That said, like Spain and Italy in recent World Cups, they might not be in many situations where they're chasing a goal or two.