Brazil vs Argentina - Copa America Final

[Infordin]

2021 Copa America Final

Date: Saturday, 10 July

Time: 9:00 PM local time, 1:00 AM GMT

Stadium: Maracanã


Predicted Line-ups:

Brazil (4231)

Ederson
Danilo - Marquinhos - Thiago Silva - Lodi
Casemiro - Fred
Everton - Paquetá - Neymar
Richarlison​

Argentina (433)

Emi Martinez
Molina - Romero - Otamendi - Tagliafico
De Paul - Paredes - Lo Celso
Messi - Lautaro - Di Maria​

 

[Judas]

I've never watched a Copa America final and seen Messi happy, I don't want that habit to change now.

 

[Mike Smalling]

Those are pretty underwhelming Brazil and Argentina sides. Is that really their current best starting line-ups?

Anyway, hoping for an Argentina win. Can't stand Neymar, and wouldn't mind seeing Messi add an international trophy to his collection.

 

[duffer]

It's on at 1am on Sunday the 11th of July in the UK, not Saturday the 10th.

 

[izec]

Brazil will win comfortably

 

[Ish]

That Brazilian lineup looks like 12 players on my mobile

Have only caught some highlights of the tournament due to the time it’s airing over here (2-3am) but will stay up Saturday night (Sunday morning) to watch the final.

 

[Mcking]

Do Argentina not have a better striker than Lautaro? He's always been overhyped.

 

[V.O.]

Those are pretty underwhelming Brazil and Argentina sides. Is that really their current best starting line-ups?

Anyway, hoping for an Argentina win. Can't stand Neymar, and wouldn't mind seeing Messi add an international trophy to his collection.

Yeah, strange to see a Brazil side that have to play an Everton winger and Everton, winger as first choice players. That Argentina side is absolutely shocking compared to teams of the past too.

The South American talent conveyer belt definitely seems to have had a relatively lean few years.

 

[hasanejaz88]

Yeah, strange to see a Brazil side that have to play an Everton winger and Everton, winger as first choice players. That Argentina side is absolutely shocking compared to teams of the past too.

The South American talent conveyer belt definitely seems to have had a relatively lean few years.

It will be 20 years next year since a South American team won the World Cup, don't think we've ever seen a stretch that long in that past. The previous decade was the first decade no South American team has won the world cup as well.

 

[Pep's Suit]

Yeah, strange to see a Brazil side that have to play an Everton winger and Everton, winger as first choice players. That Argentina side is absolutely shocking compared to teams of the past too.

The South American talent conveyer belt definitely seems to have had a relatively lean few years.

Well, you can say that about european teams as well. Italy and Spain hardly have any generational talents these days, Denmark made it into semis which is something Belgium with their 'golden' generation never accomplished and all of them are in late 20s / early 30s now. Germany, France and Portugal have more individual quality so they underperformed, I think. Overall, there's less special players than what we were watching 5, 6, 7 years ago.

 

[Mike Smalling]

It will be 20 years next year since a South American team won the World Cup, don't think we've ever seen a stretch that long in that past. The previous decade was the first decade no South American team has won the world cup as well.

And only one finalist in that period as well (Argentina in 2014). The latter stages of the World Cup is becoming too much of a European affair, which is a real shame.

 

[Infordin]

Overall, there's less special players than what we were watching 5, 6, 7 years ago.

This is true.

Rodrigo De Paul is in some ways the epitome of a modern player. Hard working, good technique, tactically sound, but nothing special as an individual.

Messi and Neymar type creative geniuses are a dying breed.

 

[izec]

And only one finalist in that period as well (Argentina in 2014). The latter stages of the World Cup is becoming too much of a European affair, which is a real shame.

Brazil are a good side and will be back in the mix next year. They lack names and star quality, but are a good collective team, compact and hard to beat. They are a European side in that sense, not like they used to be. They will do an Italy next summer and go far

 

[Infordin]

And only one finalist in that period as well (Argentina in 2014). The latter stages of the World Cup is becoming too much of a European affair, which is a real shame.

The good news is that in international football, things can change incredibly quickly.

England was a dead team after they lost to Iceland in 2016. Italy was a dead team after they failed to make the World Cup in 2018. Now a few years later, both teams will (likely) contend the Euro final.

All it takes is a couple of talented players with a competent coach and you can have a serious shot at international success.

 

[SalfordRed18]

Come on Brazil.

 

[Pep's Suit]

This is true.

Rodrigo De Paul is in some ways the epitome of a modern player. Hard working, good technique, tactically sound, but nothing special as an individual.

Messi and Neymar type creative geniuses are a dying breed.

You can also look at strikers. The best of them have maybe 2-3 years left each. Then there's only Mbappe and Haaland, two players while there are 10 or so rich teams which try to win everything. Or look at defenders. Most fullbacks never justify their transfer fee and the biggest club in the world will start this season with Alaba-Nacho as their first-choice CBs. I think overall there's simply less individual quality and more system players.

 

[Morty_]

Feels like Argentina will win this, even though Brazil should be a better side, call it fate.

 

[amolbhatia50k]

2-0 to Brazil

 

[berbatrick]

Don't they play Firmino?

Marquinhos-Silva + Casemiro-Fred is about as good as you can do defensively. Messi will need major help.

 

[Lay]

I just can’t see Argentina ever beating Brazil in a major game. They have an inferiority complex. I expect Brazil to brush Argentina aside

 

[Patchbeard]

If this were 1am after the Euros final I might have stayed up.

Anyone in South America has it been a slightly muted tournament due to the lack of fans?

The BBC have been showing the games on iPlayer, but most of the games have been after midnight and their highlight reels literally only consist of any goals or assists by Messi or Neymar (aware that most of Argentina and Brazils goals have involved them but still, no context of the games!). And add to that the commentator is fecking atrocious. Can pronounce the names better than I can, but so so monotone. Sounds like they've just stuck their south american football stat man on it. If they had proper match highlights and a real commentator then it would've at least felt like a tournament was going on.

 

[horsechoker]

Lionel Messi.

 

[Hughes35]

You can also look at strikers. The best of them have maybe 2-3 years left each. Then there's only Mbappe and Haaland, two players while there are 10 or so rich teams which try to win everything. Or look at defenders. Most fullbacks never justify their transfer fee and the biggest club in the world will start this season with Alaba-Nacho as their first-choice CBs. I think overall there's simply less individual quality and more system players.

Two things. Over coaching and scouts picking young players based on physical attributes rather then trying to teach technique afterwards.

 

[Bole Top]

Lionel Messi.

excellent contribution to the thread.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

C’mon Brazil!!

 

[paraguayo]

It will be 20 years next year since a South American team won the World Cup, don't think we've ever seen a stretch that long in that past. The previous decade was the first decade no South American team has won the world cup as well.

You are comparing a continent with 45 countries and many top sides to basically two/three countries.

What happened untill 2010 where S.America and Europe had same amount of WCs was a underachieving bottle job by Europe actually.

For example, many top European teams had group stage exits, even twice in a row like Italy, even France which is lauded got bounced in groupi stages in 2010,
but when France and England sucks, Spain and Netherlands can pick it up, or Portugal can show up. If Germany sucks one year and crashes in group stage, France can step it up.

There is not a 'next man up' amount of teams in S.America to compete with that.

Thus, its completely stupid to talk about football continentally, like if England has any merit of France wins a WC etc. Talk about countries individually

 

[Bole Top]

I just can’t see Argentina ever beating Brazil in a major game. They have an inferiority complex. I expect Brazil to brush Argentina aside

yup. since 2005 Argentina haven't beat them in competitive game. (world cup qual. or copa).

 

[Oranges038]

Well, you can say that about european teams as well. Italy and Spain hardly have any generational talents these days, Denmark made it into semis which is something Belgium with their 'golden' generation never accomplished and all of them are in late 20s / early 30s now. Germany, France and Portugal have more individual quality so they underperformed, I think. Overall, there's less special players than what we were watching 5, 6, 7 years ago.

Belgium lost to France in the semi final at the 2018 world cup.

 

[izec]

Feels like Argentina will win this, even though Brazil should be a better side, call it fate.

Nah, Brazil will easily win against them. Argentina are a good and nice side to watch, but once things get tough for silverware, they bottle it and will lose their heads. An easy 2-0 win for Brazil if i ever saw one

 

[big rons sovereign]

Those are pretty underwhelming Brazil and Argentina sides. Is that really their current best starting line-ups?

Anyway, hoping for an Argentina win. Can't stand Neymar, and wouldn't mind seeing Messi add an international trophy to his collection.

Meh, Messi is a shitbag.
He's sat on his mountain of wealth watching his club crumble as they desperately jettison staff in order to pay his greedy ass.

 

[Mark_Barca]

yup. since 2005 Argentina haven't beat them in competitive game. (world cup qual. or copa).

Argentina were very unfortunate in the Copa 2019 SF tbh. Hit the woodwork twice and was some bad officiating. With no fans in attendance, they won't have a better chance.

 

[lawliet354]

Brazil have a much much better defence, attacking wise not so much between them.

 

[WeePat]

For some reason I really want Messi to win at least one major international tournament. It seems to be one of the few remaining things people hold against him.

It was strange to see him so animated last night. He often comes across as a muted sort of character.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[Cloud7]

Brazil seem like such an average team. Fred. An everton Winger. If you took Neymar out of that lineup you would struggle to call that a top team really.

 

[Pocho]

I've never watched a Copa America final and seen Messi happy, I don't want that habit to change now.

Still the GOAT. Sorry if it hurts

 

[TrustInOle]

For some reason I really want Messi to win at least one major international tournament. It seems to be one of the few remaining things people hold against him.

It was strange to see him so animated last night. He often comes across as a muted sort of character.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

Probably realising this could be his last chance on the international stage? The world cup is only next year but I think he knows the European stage might be too much in this current climate. Either way, would be fantastic if he could finally add that elusive international trophy to his collection. Say what you want about the man and the Barcelona circus currently, but I have loved every minute of being able to see this legend play the game so effortlessly.

 

[tenpoless]

Neymar or Di Maria.

Fecking hell.

 

[NasirTimothy]

What’s been quite clear from watching the Euros and the Copa America at the same time is that Messi and Neymar are easily the two best players in the world ATM. There isn’t anyone in Europe who demonstrated their world class level of vision and playmaking ability, with the possible exception of Paul Pogba.

 

[hasanejaz88]

You are comparing a continent with 45 countries and many top sides to basically two/three countries.

What happened untill 2010 where S.America and Europe had same amount of WCs was a underachieving bottle job by Europe actually.

For example, many top European teams had group stage exits, even twice in a row like Italy, even France which is lauded got bounced in groupi stages in 2010,
but when France and England sucks, Spain and Netherlands can pick it up, or Portugal can show up. If Germany sucks one year and crashes in group stage, France can step it up.

There is not a 'next man up' amount of teams in S.America to compete with that.

Thus, its completely stupid to talk about football continentally, like if England has any merit of France wins a WC etc. Talk about countries individually

You're saying Europe was doing a bottle job since the 1930s and only now started to get their act together?

I think it's a mix case of there being a talent drain in Brazil while Argentina suffered from their talent being concentrated in the attacking positions, and not having talented defenders or goalkeepers during the same time.

If you look at South America as a whole, the smaller countries have seen a growth of talent in the last decade, especially Chile, who won 2 Copa Americas in a row, and Columbia. So it seems talent is being spread out in South America more than being concentrated in Brazil and Argentina.

 

[FootballHQ]

Really really hope Argentina win this time. Hopefully Ref actually goes and watches the VAR if they have a good penalty shout unlike the 2019 SF which was a scandal.

Brazil favourites but will be pretty tight I suspect.