Brazil vs Argentina - Copa America Final

[Bleu]

I am very sure this was the first time Brazil have lost a competitive match since the 2018 World Cup, when they lost to Belgium.
I also would not put down Argentina as helpless for the World Cup. They are 20 games undefeated under Scaloni and can flip the script on any team on their day.
Look at what Denmark have achieved this Euro, imagine having one of the GOATS on your side! A good run of form in a tournament is all it will take to go from a dark horse to a main contender.

 

[giorno]

Di Maria managed to score before the usual injury and argentina finally won

Said this before but he's always been their single most important player over the last decade or so. Him missing finals to injury was the reason they kept losing

 

[Djemba-Djemba]

They really could do with a long break now before the next Copa America.

It feels like there's been one every year for about 5 years.

 

[#07]

Long term, if I am Brazil, I am asking serious questions about why players like Jorginho and Thiago aren't playing for the Selecão.

Why was this trend, started by Pepe and Deco, allowed to grow? Why are some of the best Brazilian players playing for other countries?

Something has gone wrong at the core of Brazilian football.

Fair play to Argentina, they finally got the job done. Uruguay and Chile have stopped them in recent memory. This time around they made it happen. Messi has finally won an international tournament, in perhaps the worst Argentina side he's played in.

 

[Champ]

What the hell happened in this thread

Lots of anger and very little footballing discussion...

 

[Lay]

What the hell happened in this thread

Lots of anger and very little footballing discussion...

Bit like the match. I for one, love it

 

[Infordin]

Messi has finally won an international tournament, in perhaps the worst Argentina side he's played in.

This team is comfortably better than the 2018 edition. The midfielders can actually pass forward, which helps a lot.

 

[GhastlyHun]

Di Maria's finish for that goal was something to behold.

 

[rollingstoned1]

I feel like I’m the only one who really enjoyed that final, and the tournament in general.

I’ve really enjoyed the Euros but there’s been a lot of soulless professionalism in the European game; a lack of bite and intensity that appears in the Copa.

South American’s are much more willing to beat a man, or do things first time. The football (…and tackling) is a lot more free.

having seen as much of the copa as i can while watching most of the Euros - mainly down to timings - i agree. Even a 1-0 game in the Copa seems interesting.

Having said that though the team you most associate with flair ie Brazil has looked quite functional and efficient as opposed to what you expect from them. I got that feeling during the 2018 WC too. When was the last time people really were turned on by Brazil's dazzling attacking football than just looking like a well drilled European team in those colours?

 

[Robertd0803]

Some will be raging tonight.

Nah its all good.

Didnt realise the final was in the Maracana, another huge defeat mentally for Brazil at home you would feel.

Neymar taking about 10 minutes to cry at full time and then for about 30 minutes is Neymar out and out. Neymar going to seek out Messi was pretty cool to see though.

Huge huge win for Argentina (at in Brazils backyard-must be unreal for their fans). Seems a much better team spirit now than previous years with Argentina.

 

[izec]

Rodrigo De Paul. What a fecking match. How the hell did we miss him for 35 m. He would have been perfect for us.

Almost landed at Leeds (i assume that was Bielsa). They were the only club to bid for him last summer, didnt match the fee though. Liverpool were apparently sniffing around this summer, but thank god Atletico won the race.

Maybe we are hesitant with buying Argentinians.Though he would have suited us well, very flexible and can play a lot of positions, has real grit and determination. I think he played every game at the Copa with Messi, and Scaloni was doing quite some rotation.

 

[FootballHQ]

Pleased for Messi.

Thought Argentina were excellent first 20 minutes pressing Brazil and that set the tone. Final badly needed them to score the first goal and they got it. Probably a rare occasion when in first half Messi wasn't the player to get the ball to at all costs as Di Maria was completely destroying the LB.

What other options do Brazil have coming through at LB as I presume Renan Lodi will be put in international exile, was complete disaster.

Also interesting what happens to Tite now. Losing a final on home turf to Argeintina isn't a good look at all but I suspect with world cup 18 months away he'll stay in but he'll have to win that to keep his job.

When you look at it Scaloni has done a similar job to Southgate. People probably dismissed him when he got the job but slowly he's made them far more defensively solid even if they don't have any world class defender (although Romero looks very good) so miles better than what they were in 2018 when structually they were a mess. Sometimes that's enough to win a major competition although wouldn't rank them close to top 5 contenders for Qatar.

Brazil badly need to find a creative player infront of Casemiro. They were trying Douglas Luiz in the 8 role before he lost his place just before the Copa. Paqueta also did little when he was moved there second half. A few issues for them to solve for world cup now, basically the only good moves are when Neymar is picking the ball up on halfway line as he can beat 2/3 players and then hit good pass to front men, no one else can do that.

 

[FootballHQ]

having seen as much of the copa as i can while watching most of the Euros - mainly down to timings - i agree. Even a 1-0 game in the Copa seems interesting.

Having said that though the team you most associate with flair ie Brazil has looked quite functional and efficient as opposed to what you expect from them. I got that feeling during the 2018 WC too. When was the last time people really were turned on by Brazil's dazzling attacking football than just looking like a well drilled European team in those colours?

Probably the 90s Brazil were last like that. Were pretty awful up to 2002 world cup and then it all came together nicely although draw was reasonably kind. 2006 Cafu and Roberto Carlos were way past their peak and they did an England by just playing all of Ronaldinho, Kaka, Ronaldo and Adriano from start which completely unbalanced them.

Have to go way back though for a properly creative midfield as they tend to know always have a DM and then box to box runners infront of him. Dosen't really produce a Xavi, Modric or Pirlo type anymore unless I've missed someone obvious. Neymar in midfield would probably work but they need him to finish off the moves so that's the crux.

 

[AshRK]

This thread is becoming as fiesty as the copa final. The issue is both lacked quality.

 

[FootballHQ]

There's still the world cup next year n Messi n CR7 may join another club.still have a few years to go before their playing career ends.

Both will likely be out by the quarters.

Thought Argentina's best player last night was Romero at the back, was only apparently 70% fit yet was reading and cutting out Brazil's attacks no problem. You've been linked to him haven't you? Although think he's a Juve player and they keep loaning him out so obvious one to replace Bonucci/Chellini.

 

[AshRK]

Both will likely be out by the quarters.

Thought Argentina's best player last night was Romero at the back, was only apparently 70% fit yet was reading and cutting out Brazil's attacks no problem. You've been linked to him haven't you? Although think he's a Juve player and they keep loaning him out so obvious one to replace Bonucci/Chellini.

With some luck and kind draw both Argentina and Brazil can surprise next year. Too soon to write them off. Also, feel some overrate some of the European sides. Yes European country will be favorite but in these major tournaments we have seen a surprise finalist always emerge. No one expected Germany to do well in 2002 and they were in finals, no one expected France to do well in 2006 but they too reached the finals, croatia in 2018 another example.

 

[7even]

1. The football pitch was a joke?

A legendary arena. How can the Brazilian football authorities allow the final to be hold on such a potato field? A fiasco on its own.

2. The referee - If I’m nice I call him a clown because that’s exactly what he was.

The inconsistency. The lack of understanding of the game. His last 10 minutes of the game was a joke. He should be lucky if he stayed alive if he later took a dinner at Lapa or visited Copacabana.

3. Neymar - by far the best player on the pitch.

The way he take the game on his shoulders is admirable. He’s a totally different animal when he’s representing his national team.

4. Messi - alone with the GK when it’s only a few minutes left and fks it up.

That’s his national career in a nut shell. Now I’m brutally honest. Zero leadership. Zero effort to take the game on his shoulders. Almost invisible in large parts of the game. The GOAT? I say this again. To be the GOAT you need more qualities then just kicking a ball. When you remember Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Maradona or Tom Brady you remember clutch moments. You can easily visualize a special moment of their career. You think of extraordinary charisma. Is Messi the best player? Maybe. Will I hold him in my mind in the same way I think of Jordan, Ali, Maradona or Brady. HELL NO.

Congratulations to the Argentinians. You all deserve it. One lucky moment it’s all it takes but no need to apologize. The winner takes it all and in the end it’s all that matters.

 

[adexkola]

4. Messi - alone with the GK when it’s only a few minutes left and fks it up.

That’s his national career in a nut shell. Now I’m brutally honest. Zero leadership. Zero effort to take the game on his shoulders. Almost invisible in large parts of the game. The GOAT? I say this again. To be the GOAT you need more qualities then just kicking a ball. When you remember Michael Jordan, Muhammad Ali, Maradona or Tom Brady you remember clutch moments. You can easily visualize a special moment of their career. You think of extraordinary charisma. Is Messi the best player? Maybe. Will I hold him in my mind in the same way I think of Jordan, Ali, Maradona or Brady. HELL NO.

The mind indeed can vomit.

 

[croadyman]

Was pleased for Messi but that snake Di Maria obviously

 

[UnofficialDevil]

Rubbish. I didn’t see any football for 90 minutes.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

How has Messi played?

Hardly touched the ball and when he did he fecked up a 1 on 1 I could have scored.

 

[AshRK]

Hardly touched the ball and when he did he fecked up a 1 on 1 I could have scored.

But I thought you said you didn't see any football for 90 mins

 

[miked99]

What a poor game that was. 90 minutes of players hurling themselves to the floor every time anyone attempted to tackle them. Pathetic.

Good goal by Di Maria though. Can't stand him, but he has been and still is an amazing player.

 

[UnofficialDevil]

But I thought you said you didn't see any football for 90 mins

It was 95 minutes full time. So about 5 minutes of football

 

[André Dominguez]

Long term, if I am Brazil, I am asking serious questions about why players like Jorginho and Thiago aren't playing for the Selecão.

Why was this trend, started by Pepe and Deco, allowed to grow? Why are some of the best Brazilian players playing for other countries?

Something has gone wrong at the core of Brazilian football.

Fair play to Argentina, they finally got the job done. Uruguay and Chile have stopped them in recent memory. This time around they made it happen. Messi has finally won an international tournament, in perhaps the worst Argentina side he's played in.

CBF has only themselves to blame. With the exception of Pepe who preferd to play for Portugal, all other players sent letters to CBF saying they would play for another NT if the CBF didn't count with them.

 

[MrMarcello]

it absolutely gets the money off his back easily. It’s the South American euro and you saw how emotional the players were when they won it.

Hmm

 

[AshRK]

Pretty sure Brazilians would have expected more from Vinicius Jr. and Rodrygo, both of whom were highly rated before joining madrid. I feel both look underwhelming so far.

 

[RoyH1]

Deserved for Argentina and I’m happy that Messi finally won something important with his national team. His smile was something to behold.

 

[Zen]

For those thinking the Conmebol has altered things purely for him to eventually win.... say he gets to 2024, possible or not, that's a 17 year window where he would of played 7 Copa's.

Had he started that 17 year Copa career in 87.... he could of played 9. Alex Aguinaga of Ecuador basically did and only missed the 97 tournament.

 

[Skorenzy]

Di Maria managed to score before the usual injury and argentina finally won

Said this before but he's always been their single most important player over the last decade or so. Him missing finals to injury was the reason they kept losing

Well, yeah, he's literally been the only other player they've had throughout the entire decade who could take the pressure off Messi to be at the center of every move (recently Lo Celso has grown into the playmaking role a bit more as well) or who can consistently beat a man off the dribble and create danger on his own.

He fell out injured against Belgium in the QF in 2014 and, in response, Sabella went ultra-defensive for the remaining two games.
Pulled his hammy in the 1st half of the 2015 Final, so Chile could focus on kicking the shit out of Messi.
Injured in the 2nd game of the group stage in 2016, with Messi going on to have an eerily similar type of dominant tournament as this year's (5 goals+4 assists, with 2 coming from free kicks) only to get nullified in the final and miss in the shoot-out.
When he caught the turf and went down in a heap yesterday, I thought to myself déjà vu.

Both in 2019 and this year he played a reduced role as an impact sub. His performances in this Copa (and Nico González' lack of effectiveness, ultimately) earned him the start yesterday.
And kudos to him, he took his chance brilliantly.

Though props to RDP, clear MOTM in my book. Fought for every blade of grass and set up Argentina's only two chances, both of them huge 1v1s (the goal and the one that Messi fluffed at the end).

 

[Ekeke]

Messi some good moments, horrible miss. Di Maria great finish, greedy for the rest of the game. De Paul best overall performance. Very good

 

[adexkola]

Messi some good moments, horrible miss. Di Maria great finish, greedy for the rest of the game. De Paul best overall performance. Very good

Banega deserved a medal

 

[#07]

CBF has only themselves to blame. With the exception of Pepe who preferd to play for Portugal, all other players sent letters to CBF saying they would play for another NT if the CBF didn't count with them.

The CBF is a horrifically run organisation. It's so badly run you must conclude it is entirely corrupt, incompetent or a mixture of both.

I agree with what you say. Its important for Brazilians to start asking for more transparency about how their national game is run. The CBF will not change unless there is pressure from the Brazilian public. There is no incentive for them to change how they do business currently.

 

[IrishRedDevil]

Blame it on Fred. Am I right?

 

[André Dominguez]

The CBF is a horrifically run organisation. It's so badly run you must conclude it is entirely corrupt, incompetent or a mixture of both.

I agree with what you say. Its important for Brazilians to start asking for more transparency about how their national game is run. The CBF will not change unless there is pressure from the Brazilian public. There is no incentive for them to change how they do business currently.

There is a lot of strange things that makes them loose their players: a player who have never played in brazilian Serie A but his doing great at Benfica or Porto, that player will only go for the brazilian NT if he transfers himself to another league. Deco is the best example: doing amazing seasons at Porto, but as he never played at brazilian Serie A he never got called up .

Ewerton "Cebolinha" made a poor season at Benfica, but as he was one of the main Serie A players before coming to Portugal, he gets called up. On other hand, Octavio did another great season for Porto, and he is even wanted for top clubs, doesn't get called up.

I also think a lot of Serie A players go to the NT due to brazilian agents and clubs pressure in order to value those players, when they could call up players who play in more competitive leagues, but not in top clubs of those leagues.

 

[TommiHelm]

They both won it?

That's what the commentator on Norwegian TV said during the match at least. They couldn't decide between them who had been most important, so they just gave it to both.

 

[Pocho]

I've never watched a Copa America final and seen Messi happy, I don't want that habit to change now.

Apparently it changed

 

[Pocho]

Argentina-Brasil>>>>>>> Italia-England

 

[Pocho]

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