Bringing players on in the 88th+ minute...

[Rozay]

Unless it’s for an injury or to defend/attack crosses or something - but of a pisstske surely, no?

Young players/debutants often get this treatment. Brought on for their debut after 88 minutes. Garner experienced something similar the other week, although we were 2-0 up for a while. I’m sure he was chuffed to get on the pitch at all, but surely nothing more than ceremonial.

Seen loads of players come off the bench and not get to touch the ball in my life. I’ve heard theories that it’s a nice gesture to get them an appearance bonus? Can imagine some players not being too enthused with going on in the 91st minute though.

 

[Tommy]

I'd be pretty happy with picking up an appearance bonus for 2 minutes work

 

[Strachans Cigar]

Primarily done to run the clock down is it not

 

[CG1010]

Can think of many reasons not piss take:
- could be to waste time at the end since referees often add 30 seconds for a substitution which could take longer.
- Introduce a younger player by slowly easing him in.
- Hook off a player who performed well in the match and for him to receive adulation from people in the stadium.
- The Garner's example above, its just a last throw of the dice by the Ole.

 

[anant]

Unless it’s for an injury or to defend/attack crosses or something - but of a pisstske surely, no?

How exactly would the ref decide whether the substitution is to attack/defend crosses or not?

 

[Tarrou]

its just to waste time isn't it?

 

[Rozay]

How exactly would the ref decide whether the substitution is to attack/defend crosses or not?

Nobody said the ref has to decide anything.

 

[gza the genius]

My college coach tried to put me in in the 88th minute. I pretended to fumble around with tying my shoes for about two full minutes before he told me to forget it. It was pretty insulting to me that he thought me getting on the field for a minute or so was some sort of gift to me.

Granted this was me in college, and not an academy player making their debut for one of the biggest clubs in the world. I'm sure they're happy to get on any way they can. I would assume that feeling is only going to last the first couple times it happens though.

 

[Cascarino]

A guy I knew had a good season in the reserves, and Brendan had talked him up a few times, and in what was the last game of the season and against Liverpool (I think) he called him up to the touchline right at the end of the match to give him his debut. The ball never went out of play, Brendan left that summer and he never got to play for the club.

 

[Culero]

A lot of the time it is to deliver on appearance bonus as a sign of good faith. If a player has put in good work and is not necessarily a starter it is a way to show appreciation for their work and hope they stay at the club.

 

[Cutch]

Primarily done to run the clock down is it not

its just to waste time isn't it?

I think refs other than Jon Moss usually see through this ploy and add on even longer than the time wasted

 

[Rozay]

My college coach tried to put me in in the 88th minute. I pretended to fumble around with tying my shoes for about two full minutes before he told me to forget it. It was pretty insulting to me that he thought me getting on the field for a minute or so was some sort of gift to me.

Granted this was me in college, and not an academy player making their debut for one of the biggest clubs in the world. I'm sure they're happy to get on any way they can. I would assume that feeling is only going to last the first couple times it happens though.

This would be treated as a ‘disgraceful attitude’ and all that, and there’s probably truth in that, but on a human level, I can appreciate your sentiment. Like, what’s the point?

 

[VeevaVee]

With the youngsters it gets them used to the feeling of coming on in such a big setting, and being surrounded by it, without actually having to do much. Can imagine there's a lot of thoughts flying around just sitting on the bench. The pressure of the fans surrounding you and a life of riches. At least by the time they get more gametime they should be a bit calmer.

 

[anant]

Nobody said the ref has to decide anything.

Then? If its the manager who decides that he needs height, how would it be different from today's scenario?

 

[esmufc07]

Also slows the game down when a team are chasing the game. I don't really like it but what can you do.

 

[Ooh2B]

It’s disruptive and can be decisive in dampening any flow or rhythm the oppo team might be building, it also changes the balance in both sides as everyone’s got to figure this new entity on the pitch out and what they’re doing. At 88 mins with another +5 added there’s still a lot to manage on the field.

I’m not sure of current rules, but getting a lad on for set amount of appearances will get them a medal if there’s any going.

 

[Samid]

I was thinking this last night when Real brought on fecking Marcelo in added time being 4-1 up

 

[GatoLoco]

I was thinking this last night when Real brought on fecking Marcelo in added time being 4-1 up

Reguilon got injured though.

 

[Rozay]

Then? If its the manager who decides that he needs height, how would it be different from today's scenario?

My point is that the manager decided he ‘needed’ me with 60 seconds left to go! Like, feck off! I’ve been trying to get on for the last half an hour!

 

[sullydnl]

I think refs other than Jon Moss usually see through this ploy and add on even longer than the time wasted

Even if the referee does add on an appropriate amount of time though, the rhythm of the game is still disrupted. It's easier to score a goal in four minutes of uninterrupted play than four minutes of play broken up by substitutions.

 

[harms]

I mean those kids get their first appearance in front of the 75k crowd after playing for youth teams and reserves, it’s definitely something that you need to get used to. Even if your first few times will be only for a few minutes.

Have you ever gone on stage before hundreds/thousands of people? It’s scary as hell, even if you’re only saying a couple of words.

 

[Alemar]

Agree that these 1-2 minutes long cameos doesn’t bring any value. If the manager doesn’t trust a player to ply at least 10 minutes, why to bring him on? It’s not a real debut - debut is an outing where people can actually judge player’s abilities.

 

[duffer]

Primarily done to run the clock down is it not

It's even more to disrupt the flow of the game than just waste time.

 

[el3mel]

Wasting time or adding a defender to close the game.

 

[VBI]

Even apart from appearance or win bonuses or stuff like that, in some leagues you need to make X amount of appearances to qualify for a league winner's medal.

 

[BobbyManc]

My college coach tried to put me in in the 88th minute. I pretended to fumble around with tying my shoes for about two full minutes before he told me to forget it. It was pretty insulting to me that he thought me getting on the field for a minute or so was some sort of gift to me.

Granted this was me in college, and not an academy player making their debut for one of the biggest clubs in the world. I'm sure they're happy to get on any way they can. I would assume that feeling is only going to last the first couple times it happens though.

It's a scary thought to contemplate but as a general rule of thumb, the player who the coach tends to bring on around the 88th minute mark is typically that one guy who is laughably bad but he always turns up for training so gets a small run-out at the end out of sheer pity.

 

[evil_geko]

Can be also used to break up the momentum and the tempo of the game.

 

[Ooh2B]

I'd be pretty happy with picking up an appearance bonus for 2 minutes work

I’m sure there’s people trying to figure out how to say that that’s more than likely what would equate to how much you do contribute during your everyday work appearance..

But I don’t know you and that’s casting aspersions.

 

[Sky1981]

Subs made on the last 5min of the game = 5 min extra time for each sub made.

That'll do

 

[Samid]

Reguilon got injured though.

Fair enough but there were still 3 others youngsters on the bench that could have been brought on instead. Score was 1-4. Would have meant more for someone like Brahim Diaz getting those 4 minutes than it did for Marcelo.

 

[WR10]

It’s absolutely crucial for a young one making his debut. There’s a reason why this continues to happen over the years and it’s because you help the debutant get over whatever stage fright they have. It gives them a fast track feeling of being normal on that level.

There’s so many psychological benefits for a debutant.

However for anyone else it’s absolutely ridiculous. Time wasting - sure. However the amount of risk you take with a silly injury outweighs any potential time wasted - which btw the stats show that the time added is usually well correlated anyway. If anything it’s done to break whatever rhythm the opposition have going at that moment in time. It also pisses off Klopp so it’s a win win

 

[Rozay]

It’s absolutely crucial for a young one making his debut. There’s a reason why this continues to happen over the years and it’s because you help the debutant get over whatever stage fright they have. It gives them a fast track feeling of being normal on that level.

There’s so many psychological benefits for a debutant.

However for anyone else it’s absolutely ridiculous. Time wasting - sure. However the amount of risk you take with a silly injury outweighs any potential time wasted - which btw the stats show that the time added is usually well correlated anyway. If anything it’s done to break whatever rhythm the opposition have going at that moment in time. It also pisses off Klopp so it’s a win win

I just meant more for the individual player. I mean, I think I’d prefer to sit on the bench for the full game as the manager felt he didn’t need me for this one. Giving me a time that doesn’t even allow me to touch the ball wouldn’t make me happy that’s all.

Perhaps it’s different for a debutant, and I get your argument. At the same time, I think players dream of their debuts their whole lives - scoring a winning goal or whatever. 30 seconds isn’t really time to do anything. 10 minutes perhaps?

 

[Rado_N]

I heard a story recently about a manager who pushed for players to get bigger appearance bonuses in contract negotiations on the agreement with the player that he'd get half of it, and would then bring them on for a few minutes at the end of games.

 

[gza the genius]

It's a scary thought to contemplate but as a general rule of thumb, the player who the coach tends to bring on around the 88th minute mark is typically that one guy who is laughably bad but he always turns up for training so gets a small run-out at the end out of sheer pity.

Which is exactly why there was no way I was actually going to go on.

 

[Giggs86]

Financial reasons IMO, surely players have some bonuses in their paychecks related to appearances. Also to waste time, kill the tempo of the game.