British soldier to face charges over Bloody Sunday killings.

sullydnl

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One former British paratrooper is to be charged in connection with the killings of civil rights demonstrators in Northern Ireland on Bloody Sunday in January 1972.

The decision was announced by Northern Ireland’s Public Prosecution Service (PPS) after relatives of the 13 people who died on one of the darkest days of the Troubles marched together through the streets of Derry where the victims fell.

The director of public prosecutions for Northern Ireland, Stephen Herron, said: “It has been concluded that there is sufficient available evidence to prosecute one former soldier, Soldier F, for the murder of James Wray and William McKinney, and for the attempted murders of Joseph Friel, Michael Quinn, Joe Mahon and Patrick O’Donnell.

“In respect of the other 18 suspects, including 16 former soldiers and two alleged Official IRA members, it has been concluded that the available evidence is insufficient to provide a reasonable prospect of conviction.”

On their way to the City hotel, where details of the charges were first revealed to the families, the relatives paused to sing the civil rights anthem We Shall Overcome. The PPS then formally announced the prosecution decisions in Derry’s Guildhall.

The former serviceman has not been named and will only be identified by the letters used during the 12-year-long Saville inquiry into the events of Bloody Sunday.

The inquiry found the killings were unjustified and that none of the 14 dead was carrying a gun, no warnings were given, no soldiers were under threat and the troops were the first to open fire.

The image of a Catholic priest waving a blood-stained handkerchief as he tried to help a victim to safety on 30 January 1972 was broadcast around the world.

As well as the 13 who died on the day, 15 others were shot and injured. One of the injured died months later from an inoperable tumour; some consider him the 14th fatality.

The PPS said prosecutors would now consider charges against others in relation to allegations of perjury relating to the reports surrounding Bloody Sunday.

Herron added: “I am mindful that it has been a long road for the families to reach this point and today will be another extremely difficult day for them.

“There has been a level of expectation around the prosecution decisions in the light of the findings of the Bloody Sunday inquiry. However, much of the material which was available for consideration by the inquiry is not admissible in criminal proceedings due to strict rules of evidence that apply.

“We recognise the deep disappointment felt by many of those we met with today. As prosecutors, we are required to be wholly objective in our approach.”

In its explanation of the decision, the PPS statement says: “In some cases the only evidence of what individual soldiers did was contained within their own accounts [to the inquiry], which are inadmissible against them.”

Soldier F is to be prosecuted for two murders and four attempted murders in the Bogside streets of Glenfada Park North and Abbey Park.

Responding to the PPS decisions, the defence secretary, Gavin Williamson, said: “We are indebted to those soldiers who served with courage and distinction to bring peace to Northern Ireland. The welfare of our former service personnel is of the utmost importance and we will offer full legal and pastoral support to the individual affected by today’s decision. This includes funding all his legal costs and providing welfare support.

“The Ministry of Defence is working across government to drive through a new package of safeguards to ensure our armed forces are not unfairly treated.

“And the government will urgently reform the system for dealing with legacy issues. Our serving and former personnel cannot live in constant fear of prosecution.”
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news...r-to-face-charges-over-bloody-sunday-killings

Deserves its own thread really given any conviction (or failure to convict) would be a significant day in NI history.

Of course it goes without saying that there is quite some outrage at only one soldier being prosecuted.
 

TheCorkman

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It's just disgusting. Simple as that.

How is it being received in the British press and public? Or is it even making the news?
 

SteveJ

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Williamson needs sacking.
 

Adisa

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It's ridiculous. He was carrying out orders. They one who have the order should be dragged through the courts.
 

stevoc

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It's ridiculous. He was carrying out orders. They one who have the order should be dragged through the courts.
To be fair following orders is not a legitimate defence to murdering unarmed civilians mate.

Also bear in mind this wasn't just a one off situation that got out of hand and the soldiers didn't have time to think about what they were taking part in. The same regiment murdered civilians in Belfast just a few months before. They knew full well what they were doing.
 

Halftrack

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It's ridiculous. He was carrying out orders. They one who have the order should be dragged through the courts.
The law trumps orders. Gunning down unarmed civilians is illegal, and an order to do so is unlawful and a soldier is under no obligation to follow it. They are in fact obligated to report the officer who gave it. Should they instead choose carry out said order, that's on them. Claiming they were just following orders is not a legitimate defense, nor should it be.
 

Andrew~

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It's ridiculous. He was carrying out orders. They one who have the order should be dragged through the courts.
This is never, ever, a defense in law. I'm currently a serving soldier so I totally understand the desire to protect soldiers but quite frankly, if the precedent is ever set that we can allow soliders to shoot and kill civilians on British soil without even a charge brought against them, we would be living in a very dangerous place.
 

Adisa

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You know they tried that defence at Nuremburg right?
He murdered multiple civilians.
To be fair following orders is not a legitimate defence to murdering unarmed civilians mate.

Also bear in mind this wasn't just a one off situation that got out of hand and the soldiers didn't have time to think about what they were taking part in. The same regiment murdered civilians in Belfast just a few months before. They knew full well what they were doing.
Tbh, I'm not too aware of the case but aren't soldiers immune from prosecution during times of conflict, when under orders?
 

Rado_N

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Tbh, I'm not too aware of the case but aren't soldiers immune from prosecution during times of conflict, when under orders?
If you're not aware of the case maybe hold off on declaring the situation ridiculous.

Just a thought.
 

Dave89

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Tbh, I'm not too aware of the case but aren't soldiers immune from prosecution during times of conflict, when under orders?
And you still come in to defend him. Typical.
 

cyberman

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Maybe we should sticky this thread around poppy wearing time just to kill the McClean argument before it starts?
 

Andrew~

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Thanks. So why is this case just coming to the court?
It's a fairly complex case and the people bringing it probably needed a lot of evidence gathered. Recently the government made it harder to bring cases against servicemen of this type so they probably needed quite a bit of time to make sure it wasn't one of the more frivolous claims.

Even if, hypothetically speaking, soldiers were immune to prosecution while at war, the troubles were not a war.
 

Dave89

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Maybe we should sticky this thread around poppy wearing time just to kill the McClean argument before it starts?
Why? So even more twats with no idea come in and declare it ridiculous that shooting unarmed people in the head is frowned upon?
 

Adisa

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If you're not aware of the case maybe hold off on declaring the situation ridiculous.

Just a thought.
Fair enough. I thought generally soldiers were immune from this kind of thing. There was a similar case not long ago about a serviceman in Afghanistan that was thrown out.
 

Classical Mechanic

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One of the arguments you hear from the right in the UK is that its fine to prosecute him/them but only if some cases of the atrocities the IRA committed that killed civilians are reopened. I'm not really engaged in this so what are the counter arguments to that?
 

Andrew~

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Fair enough. I thought generally soldiers were immune from this kind of thing. There was a similar case not long ago about a serviceman in Afghanistan that was thrown out.
If you're talking about the Marine A case, that was very different and wasn't exactly 'thrown out'. It went to court and he was found not guilty because of diminished responsibilty (they looked into his mental state the time etc etc). And the fact that it was in Afghanistan where the military was in an official war with a specified set of rules of engagement played a part. The British Army was not at war in Ireland, so the only defense ( a very reasonable one at that) that this particular ex-soldier can use is that maybe he felt there was an imminent threat to life from the person he shot - he'd have to prove that in court.

Not sure what the details are, but I think it's fair that this is taken to court at least. Whether, based on the circumstances, he is guilty or not is another matter.

One of the arguments you hear from the right in the UK is that its fine to prosecute him/them but only if some cases of the atrocities the IRA committed that killed civilians are reopened. I'm not really engaged in this so what are the counter arguments to that?
I think it's a fair point, just that there is likely more evidence linking particular individuals to one crime than the other. The Army keeps pretty good records of most things that happen, and I don't imagine the IRA was similarly meticulous.
 

Adisa

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If you're talking about the Marine A case, that was very different and wasn't exactly 'thrown out'. It went to court and he was found not guilty because of diminished responsibilty (they looked into his mental state the time etc etc). And the fact that it was in Afghanistan where the military was in an official war with a specified set of rules of engagement played a part. The British Army was not at war in Ireland, so the only defense ( a very reasonable one at that) that this particular ex-soldier can use is that maybe he felt there was an imminent threat to life from the person he shot - he'd have to prove that in court.

Not sure what the details are, but I think it's fair that this is taken to court at least. Whether, based on the circumstances, he is guilty or not is another matter.



I think it's a fair point, just that there is likely more evidence linking particular individuals to one crime than the other. The Army keeps pretty good records of most things that happen, and I don't imagine the IRA was similarly meticulous.
Thanks. As someone said ina post earlier, he was part of a regiment that had some something similar in another town. So quite obvious it was premeditated. Is this the first time charges have been brought on anyone for the Bloody Sunday massacre?
 

Andrew~

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Thanks. As someone said ina post earlier, he was part of a regiment that had some something similar in another town. So quite obvious it was premeditated. Is this the first time charges have been brought on anyone for the Bloody Sunday massacre?
I think so, there was an inquiry into it where soldiers gave anonymous testimonies but this is the first so far.
 

stevoc

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Posted these in the Northern Ireland thread but they're probably more relevant in here.

 

Dave89

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One of the arguments you hear from the right in the UK is that its fine to prosecute him/them but only if some cases of the atrocities the IRA committed that killed civilians are reopened. I'm not really engaged in this so what are the counter arguments to that?
Hundreds upon hundreds of people have been convicted in Northern Ireland for troubles-related killings.

The British military have killed over 150 civilians and only four soldiers have been convicted of murder (an one of those convictions was overturned on appeal). All four were freed after just five years of their life sentences through the use of the “Royal Prerogative of Mercy”. All were allowed to re-join the British army.

There was never any balance. Current attempts to redress that are not the lopsided injustice that the British claim.
 

Raulduke

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Hundreds upon hundreds of people have been convicted in Northern Ireland for troubles-related killings.

The British military have killed over 150 civilians and only four soldiers have been convicted of murder (an one of those convictions was overturned on appeal). All four were freed after just five years of their life sentences through the use of the “Royal Prerogative of Mercy”. All were allowed to re-join the British army.

There was never any balance. Current attempts to redress that are not the lopsided injustice that the British claim.
Also the entire premise of that argument is a false equivalence anyway. Saville concluded that the bloody Sunday victims were entirely innocent so why should their families quest for justice be in any way related to what does or does not happen to IRA members? It exposes an attitude that all Catholics are/were the same whether they picked up a gun or not.
 

Zlatattack

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It's a shambles. Just 1 person being prosecuted? Following orders is not an excuse to shoot dead innocent civillians.

Anywhere the military replaces police, these kinds of gross abuses tend to happen. The only way to prevent them is to prosecute the soldiers responsible.
 

balaks

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The bottom line is here that nobody is above the law and that if people were killed without justification and there is enough evidence then the perpetrator should be put before the courts. Having said that - when you look at the terms of the GFA (which I voted for by the way) and the release of murderers and now with the knowledge that there are numerous ex-IRA murders around the country with a get out of jail free letter I can understand why some might think it is one rule for one and another rule for another - it's not as simple as that and as others have said there has been a very small amount of prosecutions against army/police despite lots of evidence suggesting collusion. It was a messy conflict with carnage caused by every party involved in it and we are still at the beginning of what is going to be a long and painful reconciliation period. People outside of NI don't fully understand the depth of feeling there remains here and the pain and suffering that continues to this day due to the horror of the troubles.
 

Dave89

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Its only a faction of British people that claim that, on the right of the political spectrum.

Thanks for the answers.
I understand its not everybody, but where I live, most people who call themselves British would claim that. And so do the British government, who represent you.
 

Dave89

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The bottom line is here that nobody is above the law and that if people were killed without justification and there is enough evidence then the perpetrator should be put before the courts. Having said that - when you look at the terms of the GFA (which I voted for by the way) and the release of murderers and now with the knowledge that there are numerous ex-IRA murders around the country with a get out of jail free letter I can understand why some might think it is one rule for one and another rule for another - it's not as simple as that and as others have said there has been a very small amount of prosecutions against army/police despite lots of evidence suggesting collusion. It was a messy conflict with carnage caused by every party involved in it and we are still at the beginning of what is going to be a long and painful reconciliation period. People outside of NI don't fully understand the depth of feeling there remains here and the pain and suffering that continues to this day due to the horror of the troubles.
On the topic of the Good Friday agreement, the killers were convicted and served a lesser term. So I'd be content for the Bloody Sunday killers to be convicted, serve a comparable sentence and get early release. Just not bothering to prosecute them is not comparable.

As for the on the run letters, those are not pardons. They were simply a statement that they weren't currently being sought. The man whose case brought these letters to light is currently subject to extradition procedures. He certainly doesn't appear to have immunity.
 

Ramshock

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It's a shambles. Just 1 person being prosecuted? Following orders is not an excuse to shoot dead innocent civillians.

Anywhere the military replaces police, these kinds of gross abuses tend to happen. The only way to prevent them is to prosecute the soldiers responsible.
Same with the Ballymurphy massacre.

People are saying well why arent we prosecuting IRA members, theres a murdering bastard called John Downey thats to be extradited to the UK for his part in bombings.