[ivaldo]

I still think it's Salah. But apart from him, you're probably right. I guess you could make arguments for Rodri, Van Dijk and Alisson, but it's very even regardless of who you pick.

Yeah there isn't a lot in it. Bruno takes it for me just because of how influential he is in every aspect of play.

2nd in goals and assists
1st in key passes
1st in progressive passes
2nd in ball recoveries behind only Caicedo.
The only play in the top 5 for touches who isn't a defender

Just so much impact.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[Marwood]

Yeah there isn't a lot in it. Bruno takes it for me just because of how influential he is in every aspect of play.

2nd in goals and assists
1st in key passes
1st in progressive passes
2nd in ball recoveries behind only Caicedo.
The only play in the top 5 for touches who isn't a defender

Just so much impact.

That one is crazy

 

[Olecurls99]

Took both his goals well

Some lovely passes out to the wing backs and no errors I can think of.

 

[RuudTom83]

Watching United every week, you have to ask…would they have survived the last 2 seasons without him?

In the last 2 seasons he has 65 G/A and he will get a few more before the season ends.

Take those away and relegation would have been a genuine possibility.

Crazy how Gary and Keane still feel the need to criticise him, he’s the only one keeping the team even remotely in contention for honours.

 

[Alemar]

In the last 2 seasons he has 65 G/A and he will get a few more before the season ends.

He is at 37 G/A this season (19+18) with hopefully 6 games to go. 40 is absolutely within reach, and 40 would be simply outstanding for a midfielder

 

[Glorio]

Big fan of Bruno and it was always a silly notion to think he was the problem. However there was a stretch where he was really poor (still decently impactful though) and seemed to play with no structure or care at all, and it's a bit odd to deny that. I personally put that down to the manager allowing that. Amorim's clear system, though not everyone's favourite, has brought some discipline and lifted his game.

Even at his worst periods though, my biggest issue has been the overreliance on him, rather than him being here specifically. We've never had a competent backup to take him out of the firing line at times when he's lost his head or just been terrible by his standards because the difference in levels between him and all other options is massive.

These days, even taking away the goals and assists, he's stepped it up even more and is unreal. Complete cheat code of a player like his first season.

 

[Glorio]

Watching United every week, you have to ask…would they have survived the last 2 seasons without him?

In the last 2 seasons he has 65 G/A and he will get a few more before the season ends.

Take those away and relegation would have been a genuine possibility.

Crazy how Gary and Keane still feel the need to criticise him, he’s the only one keeping the team even remotely in contention for honours.

Probably not

 

[Shark]

Big fan of Bruno and it was always a silly notion to think he was the problem. However there was a stretch where he was really poor (still decently impactful though) and seemed to play with no structure or care at all, and it's a bit odd to deny that. I personally put that down to the manager allowing that. Amorim's clear system, though not everyone's favourite, has brought some discipline and lifted his game.

Even at his worst periods though, my biggest issue has been the overreliance on him, rather than him being here specifically. We've never had a competent backup to take him out of the firing line at times when he's lost his head or just been terrible by his standards because the difference in levels between him and all other options is massive.

These days, even taking away the goals and assists, he's stepped it up even more and is unreal. Complete cheat code of a player like his first season.

Disagree with this. Bruno always cares, problem is he plays almost every game of the entire season so is bound to be burned out at times. When he gets a rest here or there you can see the difference in his performances.

 

[Glorio]

Disagree with this. Bruno always cares, problem is he plays almost every game of the entire season so is bound to be burned out at times. When he gets a rest here or there you can see the difference in his performances.

Yeah, wrong choice or term. By care I meant taking care of the ball (not giving it away cheaply). If anything, he cares too much!


In terms of improving after a rest, I basically said the same here:

Post in thread 'Brentford vs Manchester United' https://www.redcafe.net/threads/brentford-vs-manchester-united.487793/post-33183220

 

[Kag]

He’s been sensational lately. One of the best players in world football. That good.

 

[Robbie Boy]

He's hit a new level since Amorim arrived. Fantastic.

 

[Oldyella]

He's hit a new level since Amorim arrived. Fantastic.

Really has. Still putting up the numbers but feels like there is more control in his game too.

 

[Rolaholic]

 

[DJ_21]

Remember when people was saying he’s a problem… hasn’t he got double G/A in every season since he’s joined us. This guys insane and racks up incredible numbers despite playing with some of the crap we have

 

[Andersonson]

Did you watch us in in the 90's 00's?

Of course, but the captains then had great players around them. Bruno hasnt.

 

[Rasmus_9]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

 

[hellhunter]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

Absolutely not

 

[croadyman]

Absolutely not

What if we got Wirtz?

 

[hellhunter]

What if we got Wirtz?

Never happening in a million years, but that would tempt me for sure

 

[LordSpud]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

INEOS will take this. Sell Garnacho too and that will find the summer

 

[FerociousCorgis]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

depends on what amount over 100 million. 101 be tough to replace with how well he has ramped up for us lately. If it was 150 plus then youd almost have to take it as INEOS if you have any faith in scouting/transfer departments. If you cant find 3 players in that 50 million range to help us a improve then you need a different scouting department. But regardless i dont see him really wanting to go to Saudi at this point. Feel like he is too competitive to go there now. In a couple of years perhaps winding it down he would.

 

[OverratedOpinion]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

If I get the 100 million directly into my bank account, then sure. Otherwise no chance.

 

[GlazersHater]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

If we were a well-run club, then absolutely. Selling a player for £100M at age 30, turning 31 by the start of next season, would make perfect sense. Unless we're talking about GOAT-level players like Messi or Ronaldo, it's generally the right move.

But given how our management operates, we all know those £100M wouldn't be fully reinvested into the squad. They’d probably spend £60–70M on someone who ends up being a complete flop. So in our current situation, you just can't afford to sell one of the few players who consistently performs.

 

[Red4Ever]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

I doubt he himself would

 

[Lash]

@Rozay was thinking about our discussion early in the season about how he needed to be moved on for the good of the team and you held up Maddison as a better player. I think Bruno has gone one to show his quality and Maddison has done the reverse.

Be interested to see if you've changed your general opinion on Bruno and whether or not you think we can be succesful with him? We had a lot of people saying we had to play Eriksen in the 10 over Bruno earlier in the season, I can't imagine that would be even dreamt of now.

 

[LARulz]

A lot of rumours flying around on X that Saudi clubs are offering him obscene amounts of money to sign in time for the world club cup!

I’m sure it’s nonsense but.. if we were offered over £100million, would you accept?

Double that and maybe

 

[Munkehboi]

I know he's 30 but I reckon he could play at this level for 3-4 seasons. £200 million or get lost.

 

[Rozay]

@Rozay was thinking about our discussion early in the season about how he needed to be moved on for the good of the team and you held up Maddison as a better player. I think Bruno has gone one to show his quality and Maddison has done the reverse.

Be interested to see if you've changed your general opinion on Bruno and whether or not you think we can be succesful with him? We had a lot of people saying we had to play Eriksen in the 10 over Bruno earlier in the season, I can't imagine that would be even dreamt of now.

To be fair, I’ve been largely praising of him this season, and think he’s been outstanding. My very first post in this thread was that I predicted him to have his best season for us and I think he’s done just that. To your point, I also think that in addition to him having his best season, Maddison has probably had his worst!

In a wider context, I still wouldn’t be against a big money sale. I may not feel like this if Amorim was not our manager, but I don’t see a natural home for him in an optimal version of this system. He, like a number of our players, has become sub-optimised by this ridiculous system, and really, he should neither be in a double-pivot or a ‘front three’ for a top side, and he is not the sort of player that you keep in a squad role to rotate between the two. I think for this vision to get towards league winning levels, we need a strong pairing who can effect the game in both halves, pass and carry and importantly - win physical contests in the double pivot. As for the forward players, I’d prefer not to have a ‘number 10’ playing as one of the two 10s (ironic, I know!) because a number 10 is still essentially a midfield player, and I’d rather we played with 3 forwards rather than 2.

I still do not understand why we are trying to reinvent everything and cannot just play with 3 midfielders and 3 forwards. It could all be so simple!

 

[aeh1991]

For me, unsellable. For 200m and if he really wants, then we should let him go.

 

[Ekeke]

Without him we'd have been relegated this season. So whatever that would have done to our finances needs to be taken into account if we were really going to sell him.

I'd start to think about it if offered £150 million

 

[tenpoless]

He's our legend but no one is paying him 200m

 

[OverratedOpinion]

He's our legend but no one is paying him 200m

But that sort of answers the question about selling him though. Obviously no one would pay that for him but he may very well be worth close to that to us.

 

[Lash]

To be fair, I’ve been largely praising of him this season, and think he’s been outstanding. My very first post in this thread was that I predicted him to have his best season for us and I think he’s done just that. To your point, I also think that in addition to him having his best season, Maddison has probably had his worst!

In a wider context, I still wouldn’t be against a big money sale. I may not feel like this if Amorim was not our manager, but I don’t see a natural home for him in an optimal version of this system. He, like a number of our players, has become sub-optimised by this ridiculous system, and really, he should neither be in a double-pivot or a ‘front three’ for a top side, and he is not the sort of player that you keep in a squad role to rotate between the two. I think for this vision to get towards league winning levels, we need a strong pairing who can effect the game in both halves, pass and carry and importantly - win physical contests in the double pivot. As for the forward players, I’d prefer not to have a ‘number 10’ playing as one of the two 10s (ironic, I know!) because a number 10 is still essentially a midfield player, and I’d rather we played with 3 forwards rather than 2.

I still do not understand why we are trying to reinvent everything and cannot just play with 3 midfielders and 3 forwards. It could all be so simple!

Wasn't meant to be a gotcha or anything, as post the spurs defeat, it wasn't like I was in disagreement! Just funny how it's done a complete 180 with him.

I probably have to agree with you in my heart of hearts, I have a similar feeling with Mainoo. I do think Bruno will be effective in any system, though. Someone with that technique, creativity, output and is never injured - you just couldn't buy that on the market and more system oriented player just probably wouldn't produce as much.

I agree on the 3 forwards part, it's more my preferred style, but on the recent overlap video with Gullit they mentioned, it requires extremely good players. I'm not convinced we have the recruitment in lock step to do it yet.

 

[OT_United]

Anything above £100m and I think INEOS accept, even if Amorim says no. They’re so financially focused it makes sense to them

 

[Rozay]

Wasn't meant to be a gotcha or anything, as post the spurs defeat, it wasn't like I was in disagreement! Just funny how it's done a complete 180 with him.

I probably have to agree with you in my heart of hearts, I have a similar feeling with Mainoo. I do think Bruno will be effective in any system, though. Someone with that technique, creativity, output and is never injured - you just couldn't buy that on the market and more system oriented player just probably wouldn't produce as much.

I agree on the 3 forwards part, it's more my preferred style, but on the recent overlap video with Gullit they mentioned, it requires extremely good players. I'm not convinced we have the recruitment in lock step to do it yet.

The recruitment required for Amorim’s system is even more challenging. Any system can work of course, however, with this system we are already handicapped by needing to recruit two first XI players that don’t really exist, and also need to hope that they are in and around elite levels too.

My biggest grievance with this system is that it strips the team of the traditional ‘threat in behind’. By replacing the traditional 7 and 11 with interior players, the whole game needs to be to feet. The only player that can really be ‘released’ in behind is Patrick fecking Dorgu. He’s not going to scare teams like Rashford, Sarr, Mané, Son. I think we will have good players once the team is assembled, but we will miss what Rashford at his best gives us. I can recall so many goals Rashford has scored due to his speed in behind, and I don’t want to see us effectively replace that with Bruno.

But credit to Fernandes, he’s reached fantastic levels this season, but if you had a white board and were building a team from scratch to play this system, I don’t see that he’s a player anyone includes. As you said, similar with Mainoo. Not only those two, again - my issue is that the same applies to too many good footballers, such is the specificity of this system. A number of past and present top players wouldn’t optimally fit into this system, which is a red flag in itself IMO.

 

[Eagle_eye]

What if he wants to go? Why would his agents get in to conversations with Al Hilal?

 

[Scandi Red]

but if you had a white board and were building a team from scratch to play this system, I don’t see that he’s a player anyone includes.

It's a good thing that we live in the real world and that football isn't even 10% as nerdy as some fans (not you in particular) seem to believe.

Good players tend to make things work. Bruno having his best ever season in a system that he supposedly was COMPLETELY unsuited for is a testament to how valuable he and other genuinely good players are. You cannot beat true quality.

 

[Rozay]

It's a good thing that we live in the real world and that football isn't even 10% as nerdy as some fans (not you in particular) seem to believe.

Good players tend to make things work. Bruno having his best ever season in a system that he supposedly was COMPLETELY unsuited for is a testament to how valuable he and other genuinely good players are. You cannot beat true quality.

I’m the furthest from a football data nerd, in fact I am a vocal crusader against them, but I don’t place huge significance in what has happened this season as ultimately, we will do well to finish above 17th. So the reality is, we still find ourselves in a situation of pretty much needing a white board. The team has been far from good enough, and when trying to build a team that gets to first, the parts need to be optimal. Bruno playing very well himself doesn’t, by default, make him the best profile for the version of this team needed to finish first. We’re so far off where we need to be that I don’t think it should have any significance.

Then there’s the consideration of a 31 year old player who happens to have a +£100m value, in the context of the work that needs to be done. If Bruno doesn’t leave this summer, I think he’ll probably leave next summer regardless. Selling at the right time should also be considered.

 

[JBG]

Him leaving isn't as simple as "let him go it's £100m" or "he so important he can't go".

Because, on the one side, yes it's alot of money, like alot. But... I don't trust the people in charge to not only use that money wisely, but also replace him with a proper player.

But on the other side, it's alot of money and he's not exactly getting any younger and this can be like a "Coutinho to Barcelona" moment for us, where we actually spend the money wisely and make us even better.

Very hard choice, I love him as a player and as a person, such a great character, personality and leader. I want to see him lift a PL with us, but that most likely won't happen, sadly. But you never know.