Bruno - What If…

[Jeppers7]

There’s a hell of a lot of positive regard surrounding Bruno, which emanates from perhaps many factors. I want to consider a few, and what the general consensus would be now…If for the lack of

1. His first six months of form.
He was sensational probably 3 games out of 5 and rarely had a bad game and even if he did he might get a goal or assist. His performances were largely great and so were his numbers in that time. The end of that period is now 3.5 years ago and in that time his form has been awful most of the time, with a couple of spells of good form here and there each season, followed by more poor performances. His numbers are nothing special and the team has got worse and worse the longer he’s been here.

2. Petulance
While Bruno gets a lot of positive regard for what is seen as work-rate, often this will be the result of his own frustrations and cause a lack of team shape, or cause him to sprint 60 yards to foul somebody on the edge of our box. Whilst it might look good to some of his staunchest ‘fans’ it isn’t a positive when the other team actually scores from the free kick. Whilst when he isn’t being petulant he will often let players next to him run off him leading to crucial goals against (West Ham, Gothenburg to name just 2 recently)

3. Statman Dave
While his performances and output (goals&assists) have both diminished massively in the last 3.5 years, there’s always the next Statman Dave post to tell us he created six chances v Bournemouth that no one can actually recall, or that he’s created more chances in the league than anyone even though as a team we rarely create good chances. XG XA win you pretty much what Bruno has won, not a lot. While great performances won the likes of Roy Keane and United lots of trophies.

4. Guy in the street appeal
Having seen the stick that ‘stars’ at united have had in the past such as Giggs, Becks, Ronaldo and flamboyant characters like Pogba and Lingard….What if Bruno was extremely good looking. Or what if he had a fancy haircut and diamond earrings etc? Given the same performances over the last 3 years then I’d wager the regard would be different.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen somebody play so regularly poorly for such a long time and be held in such a positive regard by so many fans, media and pundits.

 

[Offside]

He’s technically not at the required level. Thats why Pep steered clear. In other ways he’s a classic United player who is so direct and constantly trying to make things happen, even if he loses the ball a lot like Rooney and Giggs did.

But those players had the basics which he doesn’t. Can’t control the football or play an accurate pass half the time. It’s been so long since we had a player who oozes class and has the output to go with it. Bruno’s output isn’t even there nowadays. Get rid.

 

[Manc Shaman]

I have never rated this guy. A number 10 who is not good in tight spaces, can't dribble, doesn't understand percentages and has mediocre passing is not a good player. We would do well to get rid of him.

 

[Amar__]

he created six chances v Bournemouth that no one can actually recall,

I watched chalkboard of his key passes from several games, and it seems that every corner that goes to our players' head first is counted as a goal chance, and rest of these key passes are mostly short, even sideways and sometimes backpasses outside the box. From the 5 games I skipped through only one pass was inside the box, and he rarely had any of those key passes counted as through passes either. So basically 90% of his chances created are corners, and sideway passes around 25m away from goal. Really weird and pointless metric, and it's literally the only metric people use to praise him.

Yeah, he runs a lot too, but then his defensove stats are really average-poor, so I am not quite sure what's the point of his running either when every team goes through our midfield regulary.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

fecking hell give it a rest @Jeppers7. Don't you spout enough shite in the player performance thread without having to a create a new thread for it.

Having seen the stick that ‘stars’ at united have had in the past such as Giggs, Becks, Ronaldo and flamboyant characters like Pogba and Lingard….What if Bruno wasn’t ugly. Or what if he had a fancy haircut and diamond earrings etc? Given the same performances over the last 3 years then I’d wager the regard would be different.

My favourite quote of the lot the stick Lingard got had nothing to do with going 12 months without a goal or an assist. And the stick Pogba got had nothing to do with his lack of work rate. It was because us fans despised how handsome they looked.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I don’t think Bruno is ugly. That’s what I got out of this post.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Why don’t you make yet another Bruno thread…that doesn’t have Bruno in the title?

Was this you yesterday, OP?

 

[Jeppers7]

I don’t think Bruno is ugly. That’s what I got out of this post.

 

[Tarrou]

I don't see much positive regard for Bruno nowadays, all I see is whinging

I can't recall any attacking player post-Fergie that has continued to do well after being at the club 2+ years, so I'm not that surprised Bruno has regressed

 

[Bobade]

Is Bruno ugly? This is news to me.

o

 

[GMoore23]

Will be 30 at the beginning of next season. Our last chance to cash in for any sort of value.

 

[Jeppers7]

I watched chalkboard of his key passes from several games, and it seems that every corner that goes to our players' head first is counted as a goal chance, and rest of these key passes are mostly short, even sideways and sometimes backpasses outside the box. From the 5 games I skipped through only one pass was inside the box, and he rarely had any of those key passes counted as through passes either. So basically 90% of his chances created are corners, and sideway passes around 25m away from goal. Really weird and pointless metric, and it's literally the only metric people use to praise him.

Yeah, he runs a lot too, but then his defensove stats are really average-poor, so I am not quite sure what's the point of his running either when every team goes through our midfield regulary.

This is the problem with using stats rather than assessing actual performance. You can make the right pass at the right time, the right run at the right time, track a runner and end up with lesser stats than someone spamming Hollywood passes and sprinting after lost causes.

 

[Jeppers7]

Is Bruno ugly? This is news to me.

o

Changed the OP. Hope it makes you feel better.

 

[TheReligion]

Not sure what the point of this thread is.

Basically you have never seen someone play so poorly but be held in such high regard? Cut the waffle and filler. That’s what you wanted to say. A few words.

Just say that (again) in the performance thread where you have a million posts already.

 

[Jeppers7]

I don't see much positive regard for Bruno nowadays, all I see is whinging

I can't recall any attacking player post-Fergie that has continued to do well after being at the club 2+ years, so I'm not that surprised Bruno has regressed

On a fans forum discussing his performances. Outside of that oppo fans would think he’s been great for us since we signed him. In general the fanbase has a positive regard and the media don’t highlight him being responsible for us conceding multiple goals over the past 2.5 seasons.

So if you say you don’t see a lot of positive regard I would say….if some of the points made, particularly if he was a more flamboyant, less petulant player who hadn’t had the first six months he had, there would be a HELL of a lot more negative regard.

 

[Trequarista10]

I'd say he gets more criticism than praise on here, although outside of here it's the opposite.

Despite his flaws he's still been our best attacking player over the past few seasons. His stats are a little inflated by penalties and corners but even accounting for that, he is undoubtedly productive. He's good at what he's good at, and terrible at everything else. You either play to his strengths, or don't play him at all. Given our other attacking players can't score at all I'd argue for the former. Have Bruno higher up the pitch, have others do the hard midfield work behind him. Until we have better options.

 

[Jeppers7]

Not sure what the point of this thread is.

Basically you have never seen someone play so poorly but be held in such high regard? Cut the waffle and filler. That’s what you wanted to say. A few words.

Just say that (again) in the performance thread where you have a million posts already.

The point is why and what motivates. Would it be different if some of the metrics were different. Why is the regard so positive or perhaps much less negative than players who have performed better….this isn’t so much about performance it is about regard and what is leading the narrative.

You may not find what influences popular opinion interesting, or you might be influenced in your attitude to this thread by its subject, either way maybe not a thread for you, but perhaps a similar thread for a different player with a different regard would interest you more?

It is true, Bruno has played objectively poorly the majority of games, not all games, more bad than good, for 2.5 seasons. The narrative being it was Ronaldo’s fault, fatigue, all the other players are poor etc and in that time I witnessed his behaviour at Anfield and wonder how he got away with that in a 7-0 defeat to our biggest rivals.

Giggs got booed off the pitch for 18 months of poor performances. Ronaldo was largely disliked by the hardcore until he became the best player in the world. There was always resentment around Becks for his looks and persona in the media, despite his performances being consistently superb.

None of this is a singular answer question but I’m wondering why and what is it about Bruno that sees him held in a different regard to some of the others listed other than in his own performance threads.

And even there you’ve got people who’d slate other players for a misplaced pass or a not tracking a runner in good performances, defending Bruno and ignoring such elements in poor performances.

Then you wonder, if not performance, what else motivates such lack of critique.

 

[Bobade]

On a fans forum discussing his performances. Outside of that oppo fans would think he’s been great for us since we signed him. In general the fanbase has a positive regard and the media don’t highlight him being responsible for us conceding multiple goals over the past 2.5 seasons.

So if you say you don’t see a lot of positive regard I would say….if some of the points made, particularly if he was a more flamboyant, less petulant player who hadn’t had the first six months he had, there would be a HELL of a lot more negative regard.

Why would he get more negative regard for being less petulant ?

 

[Stack]

Bruno clearly took a shit in someones handbag

 

[Jeppers7]

fecking hell give it a rest @Jeppers7. Don't you spout enough shite in the player performance thread without having to a create a new thread for it.


My favourite quote of the lot the stick Lingard got had nothing to do with going 12 months without a goal or an assist. And the stick Pogba got had nothing to do with his lack of work rate. It was because us fans despised how handsome they looked.

Lingard got stuck way before and for elements beyond performance, personal stuff. As a season ticket holder in Stretford End Pogba never got stick at OT for a lack of workrate in games…So this also goes with my point in terms of regard.

As for the rest…what a childish post.

 

[Jeppers7]

Why would he get more negative regard for being less petulant ?

That’s a great question. Maybe similar to Keane at times and as fans we like players to react as we might to our frustrations . Running 60 yards to foul someone. Maybe it’s personality traits linked to states. Ronaldo for example would be petulant in moments and Rooney too. Both had different personality traits and Rooneys petulance was liked where Ronaldo’s was disliked.

 

[Jeppers7]

Was this you yesterday, OP?

Yes

 

[MDFC Manager]

Get rid, will make things easier for whoever is the next manager.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Lingard got stuck way before and for elements beyond performance, personal stuff. As a season ticket holder in Stretford End Pogba never got stick at OT for a lack of workrate in games…So this also goes with my point in terms of regard.

As for the rest…what a childish post.

If Bruno's agent was publicly slagging off the club and saying how much Bruno wanted to leave, on the eve of some of our most important matches of the season... then you might see a different reception from the Old Trafford crowd towards the player. Pogba can have no complaints with the stick he got when his agent was constantly creating negative press for us.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

He’s technically not at the required level. Thats why Pep steered clear. In other ways he’s a classic United player who is so direct and constantly trying to make things happen, even if he loses the ball a lot like Rooney and Giggs did.

But those players had the basics which he doesn’t. Can’t control the football or play an accurate pass half the time. It’s been so long since we had a player who oozes class and has the output to go with it. Bruno’s output isn’t even there nowadays. Get rid.

Yep this is the biggest issue and has been for years. You can’t have a player that so much runs through that’s as average/below average in crucial areas technically as him, especially when he’s also relatively slow and weak physically. It creates a flawed star that’s good enough to produce against most sides but never good enough to play in the highest level matches where weaknesses are amplified if you have any.

 

[DJ_21]

Why so much hate? He’s probably one of the only players that gives 100% most games. Even when he loses the ball he’ll run the length of the pitch to track back and defend. He’s the most creative player we’ve had in years. He never gets injured so he’s one of the most reliable players also. Who in the current team can replace him? Eriksen and Mount are probably closest but can’t stay fit either of them. Unless we can replace him with a creative machine then he needs to stay.

 

[tothetop96]

Bruno is, in my opinion, a level ahead of everyone on the pitch almost any time he plays. I don't know how anyone can actually think he's the problem. We just need to get some proper defensive midfielders to play with him

 

[GazTheLegend]

Why so much hate? He’s probably one of the only players that gives 100% most games. Even when he loses the ball he’ll run the length of the pitch to track back and defend. He’s the most creative player we’ve had in years. He never gets injured so he’s one of the most reliable players also. Who in the current team can replace him? Eriksen and Mount are probably closest but can’t stay fit either of them. Unless we can replace him with a creative machine then he needs to stay.

Because these weirdo's seem to think that replacing our best creative player who runs more than anyone else in the squad will be rewarded with goals and possession. It's a bit like the underpants gnomes in South Park.

Phase 1: Drop Bruno Fernandes.
Phase 2: ?????????
Phase 3: Win titles!

Despite, you know, him not playing a few games lately and us being complete and utter dogshit every time he didn't play. Even in the Liverpool game they had over 30 shots so it's not like that is something to be -proud of-.

Probably the only two players in our squad that can play football are Rashford and Fernandes, but they get the blame for everything that happens to us despite having another 9 players in the team that offer us LITERALLY NOTHING. Hojlund has zero assists and zero goals. Martial? Somehow even worse. Antony and Garnacho have offered us what exactly, besides 1-2 wonder goals, and the possibility of improved consistency one day. And our defence is a joke. It's the same drum that keeps getting banged on, but they don't really suggest exactly who we replace them with in our team. If they were as vocal against anyone else I'd probably be on their side, but Bruno Fernandes has carried us to 2nd and 3rd in the league before.

 

[gaffs]

The one good player in our side and people want to get rid of him!

 

[AshRK]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This sums him up.

 

[PoTMS]

The one good player in our side and people want to get rid of him!

He's a decent player but he's our Coutinho, Van Nistelrooy. He's not a good enough main man to get us to the level of City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. I would only keep him as a squad player, not a guaranteed starter.

 

[Ali Dia]

Another thread /argument that may as well be Pogba vs Bruno. Pogba has been finished for years. Bruno still has a few years left in him if we use him correctly. Bruno is still a far better signing at half the cost and 1/10 of the hassle

 

[Amar__]

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

This sums him up.

What on earth was that from Shaw at 0:30? Lazy to run at full speed and to have clear control of the ball, but rather picks hoofing it, or playing lazy pass because he can lazy walk to the ball.

 

[Based Adnan]

A savvy club would move him on this summer and look to build a team that is first and foremost capable of taking care of the ball.

I expect him to still be here next season.

 

[Charlie Foley]

He's a decent player but he's our Coutinho, Van Nistelrooy. He's not a good enough main man to get us to the level of City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. I would only keep him as a squad player, not a guaranteed starter.

RVN was top scorer in a title winning season

 

[Castia]

Bruno is the least of our worries. In a team that's literally one of the worst scorers in any top flight league in Europe his stats are still up there for chances created and forward passes etc

Villa is a great example of thinking the whole squad is shite until a proper coach comes in and gets them playing in a real system. The feck is Bruno doing in this double number 10 setup that prioritises McTominay. Prime Zidane/Scholes would do feck all for us at the minute.

 

[Gabriel Djemba-Bebe]

Bruno is the least of our worries. In a team that's literally one of the worst scorers in any top flight league in Europe his stats are still up there for chances created and forward passes etc

Villa is a great example of thinking the whole squad is shite until a proper coach comes in and gets them playing in a real system. The feck is Bruno doing in this double number 10 setup that prioritises McTominay. Prime Zidane/Scholes would do feck all for us at the minute.

Basically this. It is mad how the caf is still so keen to jump on Bruno's back when we have a midfield that prioritises Mctominay and a front 3 that can't hit a barn door.

 

[lex talionis]

He's a decent player but he's our Coutinho, Van Nistelrooy. He's not a good enough main man to get us to the level of City, Liverpool, Arsenal etc. I would only keep him as a squad player, not a guaranteed starter.

Don't you ever put Bruno Fernandes and Ruud van Nistelrooy in the same category of footballer. The point of this thread is to trash Bruno and there's fair argument to be made that he has underperformed for United, but Ruud is one of the greatest strikers of last 30 years and in way underperformed for United.

 

[Jeppers7]

The one good player in our side and people want to get rid of him!

Martinez Shaw Varane Casemiro Rashford Garnacho Mount Mainoo

 

[united for life]

Not sure what the point of this thread is.

Basically you have never seen someone play so poorly but be held in such high regard? Cut the waffle and filler. That’s what you wanted to say. A few words.

Just say that (again) in the performance thread where you have a million posts already.

they blame Bruno for whining then come here and create new threads to whine about him.