Mata never got played as a no 10 during those first few seasons either. His best years at Chelsea we’re as a no 10. We signed him and out a player with no pace on the RW. He should have been played behind Rooney or Van Persie or both.
Can anyone explain how United's player recruitment strategy works?
- Thread starter fastwalker
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Yes and we signed him when we had Kagawa who was in the same boat
I was going to add this same point. It’s like the cart pulling the horse In the last 5+ years trying to cobble together individual positions to fill a gap. Somebody at this club needs to strip us back to basics and establish a modern style of play as the top 3 currently possess in their own guises. Once that’s established, you then sign the right type of player (not fashionable name) to fill the position within that system. We need to walk before we run yet our strategy appears to be let’s sprint every time.
What's clear more than anything the background checks to make sure they were suitable players has now gone. We snatch at anything we can get and it's resulted in a team full or mercenaries.
I don't see a way out of this mess, too many bad players to shift and too many none footballing men making football decisions.
I don't see a way out of this mess, too many bad players to shift and too many none footballing men making football decisions.
Strategy? What strategy?
A dead octopus is probably better at picking transfer targets than Woodward.
Hmm. Will a striker be the new manager's priority?
Yes, probably a winger, we havent got nearly enough of them.
We have American owners who have an American transfer policy.
The aim appears to be centred around getting 'franchise players'. See Pogba, Ronaldo, AdM, Schweinsteiger, Lukaku, etc. That might work in basketball (where the team sizes are smaller) or the NFL (where one quarterback can make or break a team), but not football.
Compare that with other top clubs, even City and Chelsea. They'll occassionally spend big on a pre-made superstar. But generally they go for targets just under the radar. That gives them the freedom to fail - which a HUGE and underrated benefit. Unlike at United where Maguire and Ronaldo's profiles/costs make them almost undroppable and unsellable.
Then throw in the accountants handing out contract extensions to everyone to preserve their asset value on the company Balance Sheet. It's swelled the dressing room with lazy players who know they're untouchable.
We have a board that spends big in order to look fancy and attract big advertisers. But not to win matches.
The Glazers might spend a lot. But they're still at the heart of everything wrong with United.
The aim appears to be centred around getting 'franchise players'. See Pogba, Ronaldo, AdM, Schweinsteiger, Lukaku, etc. That might work in basketball (where the team sizes are smaller) or the NFL (where one quarterback can make or break a team), but not football.
Compare that with other top clubs, even City and Chelsea. They'll occassionally spend big on a pre-made superstar. But generally they go for targets just under the radar. That gives them the freedom to fail - which a HUGE and underrated benefit. Unlike at United where Maguire and Ronaldo's profiles/costs make them almost undroppable and unsellable.
Then throw in the accountants handing out contract extensions to everyone to preserve their asset value on the company Balance Sheet. It's swelled the dressing room with lazy players who know they're untouchable.
We have a board that spends big in order to look fancy and attract big advertisers. But not to win matches.
The Glazers might spend a lot. But they're still at the heart of everything wrong with United.
The actual football - is a separate entity to the business, but over the years since Fergie left, we've remained relevant, the odd highs, and we haven't completely collapsed so they moneys kept coming in.
However, this summer that all changes, and if we don't get our transfers right and a absolutely dogs bollocks manager, we're actually going to be fecked. Then the money will seriously go down....so the feckening is potentially fast approaching.
Only Ralf can save us...because the rest of them are fecking useless.
However, this summer that all changes, and if we don't get our transfers right and a absolutely dogs bollocks manager, we're actually going to be fecked. Then the money will seriously go down....so the feckening is potentially fast approaching.
Only Ralf can save us...because the rest of them are fecking useless.
They don’t realise what they have with United. When players join us, it’s their profiles that become boosted not ours. Like you said, if we just went for players we need rather than big names then we would have more chance of success. We can create our own stars naturally as the team improves.
When Ronaldo came back I obvioisly couldn’t stop myself to be happy but it didn’t feel right, that ship had sailed, nobody wanted him before he was linked with us. The Glazers were too cheap to bring him back when they should have done, after he left Real. They couldn’t resist the dollars of a Ronaldo return though.
Ultimately we need a Director of Football to have a strategy. A chosen formation with a profile of player he wants for each position.
We need a manager whose ideas match that system or atleast philosophy.
In recent years we've had Ed Woodward who has been influenced by the wind and every manager that came in.
I can only hope we keep Rangnick as manager or Director of Football and the other position is filled with someone aligned to him.
If Ten Hag under Rangnick works then great. Otherwise it can be Rangnick working under Murtough or someone else.
We need a manager whose ideas match that system or atleast philosophy.
In recent years we've had Ed Woodward who has been influenced by the wind and every manager that came in.
I can only hope we keep Rangnick as manager or Director of Football and the other position is filled with someone aligned to him.
If Ten Hag under Rangnick works then great. Otherwise it can be Rangnick working under Murtough or someone else.
This obsession with big name strikers will be the end of me. Oooh Zlatan is available, lets get him! That didn`t really work out so lets get another big striker in Lukaku. That was even worse so keep going looking for new big name, expensive strikers. Ronaldo is available? Only 36 years old? Thats nothing, sign him for two years on whatever wages he want, he will rip the PL a new one..
When do they realize we need a functioning defense and midfield first and foremost?
When do they realize we need a functioning defense and midfield first and foremost?
I've always wondered if our chief scouts are up to the task when identifying talent. It has been a long while since we've unearthed a rare gem of a player/unknown quantity. I think Ronaldo was probably the last time we genuinely found a rough diamond
I think this sums it up nicely.
Liverpool have done well at times but the likes of joto would look muck here and the likes of Bruno would look amazing there
Big list of names and a set of darts.
Same applies to negotiations.
Same applies to negotiations.
We should have listened to him , he was the one who build that Madrid side which end up dominating Europe for years. People called Conte a prime manager but do you know how many players he recruit over 2 years at Inter ? 16. Mourinho got 11 ( 3 of them were , fred dalot grant ) and i am not sure how many of those was his preference ,1 or 2 at max. Conte doesn't look like Prima manager anymore now at Spurs does he ? I doubt he can surpass Mourinho achievement there, i doubt any of our next manager can surpass his achievement here for the next 5-10 years.
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This is the EXACT problem. I would categorised recruitment pots into
1. Prime players in EPL, that every EPL fans would have known, and yet we still make big mistake BIG time like Sanchez, Maguire
2. Not household EPL names such as Schederlin, AWB
3. Youth, Fringe players or players in Championship
4. Prime players in Europe - there should be plenty of footage and stats on
5. Prospects in Europe leagues
6. Prospects outside of Europe (Hernandez e.g.)
Whether these players would have caught the eyes of the Manager (#1,2,4), or base on scouts reports, or base on friendly advice over a beer (#3,5), we have failed in due diligence and every aspects of screening process.
The owners haven't been good but signings like Pogba, Di Maria, Schweinsteiger, Lukaku, Ronaldo etc were signed because the manager wanted those players and not because we have American owners.
LVG wanted both Di Maria and Schweinsteiger and even name dropped Di Maria as a profile of player that he didn't have in his squad, during a press conference. He also wanted Falcao and spoke about why he let go of Welbeck due to Falcao being a world class striker and someone who he's wanted for a long time. Van Gaal also mentioned signing Rojo because he impressed him and his video analysts during the Dutch teams defeat to Argentina on penalties at the World Cup in 2014.
Mourinho was heavily linked to Pogba during his reign as Chelsea manager and it was no surprise he ended up signing him at United. Mourinho always liked big physical players and it was no surprise he wanted to sign both Pogba and Lukaku. The alternative to Lukaku was Morata. And according to reports, which I posted on the forum at the time, Mourinho was making these signings on the back off his own independent scouts. Zlatan was also his signing and that doesn't need explaining.
Ronaldo according to The Times, was signed on the say so of Solskjaer, who ignored the concerns of his coaching staff to sign the player. The report went on to say that Solskjaer believed Ronaldo's goals would make up for his deficiencies off the ball. The Athletic also reported that it was Solskjaer's call on signing Ronaldo.
Were Maguire and Wan Bissaka also signed by the American owners or on the say so of the coaching staff? It's obvious they were signed on the say so of Solskjaer/Phelan/Simon Wells imo. And I was telling most of you on here at the time that both players were unsuited to playing the type of football Solskjaer spoke about implementing, which was to defend high up the pitch and have your CB defend large spaces and your fullback be involved high up the pitch in offensive transitions first and foremost. The likes of Pogba weren't bad signings compared to Maguire and Wan Bissaka.
The American owner's have shown a high level of incompetency, and that incompetency isn't that they've been signing players on their own whim, but rather because they haven't played a active role in holding people accountable for their mistakes.
A club should have a vision on how they want to play the game. And appointing a head coach on the basis of said vision, that is compatible with the modern game is something we've consistently failed to do with every appointment post Fergie. Then on top of that, we ask the manager to buy players in his image, which is a image that belongs in the 80s/90s. So it's not a surprise that we're failing on the pitch because we recruit the wrong profile of player. And Wan Bissaka and Maguire are the wrong profile of players, if the aim is to play a proactive brand of football both on/off the ball.
LVG wanted both Di Maria and Schweinsteiger and even name dropped Di Maria as a profile of player that he didn't have in his squad, during a press conference. He also wanted Falcao and spoke about why he let go of Welbeck due to Falcao being a world class striker and someone who he's wanted for a long time. Van Gaal also mentioned signing Rojo because he impressed him and his video analysts during the Dutch teams defeat to Argentina on penalties at the World Cup in 2014.
Mourinho was heavily linked to Pogba during his reign as Chelsea manager and it was no surprise he ended up signing him at United. Mourinho always liked big physical players and it was no surprise he wanted to sign both Pogba and Lukaku. The alternative to Lukaku was Morata. And according to reports, which I posted on the forum at the time, Mourinho was making these signings on the back off his own independent scouts. Zlatan was also his signing and that doesn't need explaining.
Ronaldo according to The Times, was signed on the say so of Solskjaer, who ignored the concerns of his coaching staff to sign the player. The report went on to say that Solskjaer believed Ronaldo's goals would make up for his deficiencies off the ball. The Athletic also reported that it was Solskjaer's call on signing Ronaldo.
Were Maguire and Wan Bissaka also signed by the American owners or on the say so of the coaching staff? It's obvious they were signed on the say so of Solskjaer/Phelan/Simon Wells imo. And I was telling most of you on here at the time that both players were unsuited to playing the type of football Solskjaer spoke about implementing, which was to defend high up the pitch and have your CB defend large spaces and your fullback be involved high up the pitch in offensive transitions first and foremost. The likes of Pogba weren't bad signings compared to Maguire and Wan Bissaka.
The American owner's have shown a high level of incompetency, and that incompetency isn't that they've been signing players on their own whim, but rather because they haven't played a active role in holding people accountable for their mistakes.
A club should have a vision on how they want to play the game. And appointing a head coach on the basis of said vision, that is compatible with the modern game is something we've consistently failed to do with every appointment post Fergie. Then on top of that, we ask the manager to buy players in his image, which is a image that belongs in the 80s/90s. So it's not a surprise that we're failing on the pitch because we recruit the wrong profile of player. And Wan Bissaka and Maguire are the wrong profile of players, if the aim is to play a proactive brand of football both on/off the ball.
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Surely it is simply the fact that the club was run for several years by someone with no experience whatsoever at running a business and no experience at football. It's like getting the builder of a hospital to run it and make clinical decisions.
No he didn't.
Great post. Especially the bit in bold.
A) A potential player becomes available, we panic, throw loads of money at them to lure them as we don't have a great manager that people want to play for, they rarely turn out to be worth what we paid, we sell them for less because it 'didnt quite work out for player x at united'.
B) We try to save £2.20 on a deal so we wait and wait and then someone else snatches them.
C) Fergie/Glazers/Woodward thinks x is a good player so we sign him, despite what the manager thinks and it doesn't work out.
Jokes aside, I genuinely think that we got too big for our own good. We have imploded. I think one of the most damaging things for us is the image of 'worlds biggest football club'. I don't even think that is true anymore but we still get charged obscene prices once we show interest in a potential player. What we spend on players that we then go on to send out on loan (because they are not ready), Liverpool would spend on a first team player.
B) We try to save £2.20 on a deal so we wait and wait and then someone else snatches them.
C) Fergie/Glazers/Woodward thinks x is a good player so we sign him, despite what the manager thinks and it doesn't work out.
Jokes aside, I genuinely think that we got too big for our own good. We have imploded. I think one of the most damaging things for us is the image of 'worlds biggest football club'. I don't even think that is true anymore but we still get charged obscene prices once we show interest in a potential player. What we spend on players that we then go on to send out on loan (because they are not ready), Liverpool would spend on a first team player.
'Can anyone explain how United's player recruitment strategy works?' - It doesn't. It's strange because there's people in our system of real pedigree when it comes to scouting but we always seem to default back to the obvious names. It feels a very reactive policy rather than something proactive and 'prophetic' (for lack of a better word). I hope Rangnick can sort us out in this regard but I fear he's hamstrung by the upper management/ownership. It must be so frustrating working for these nincompoops, though they're well compensated so that probably quells the desire to fight the system.
I keep saying this. Our entire football structure and decision making is a joke. Yes we have some good individuals in there, but no cohereht strategy or plan. Recruitment is just one part of the broader football structure and plan, so given we dont have this it really, really should not be a surprise that our recruitment is a mess. I think was post Mou or around then there were stories of scouts giving conflicting accounts of the same player, no coherent overall structure for prioritising target areas and then actual targets etc. In the absence of a coherent footbal structure, it also means we are bent over by our managers and their favourite agents every window. Look at some of the cr*p Mourinho signed, or for that matter Ole. Remember the rebuild narrative, supported by the top reds on here. How's that looking now? All that stuff about data and checking out personalities etc. So how on earth did we end up with VDB, AWB or MAguire?
Nothing changes until we move to a moden structure, have have a clear football decision making structure with a top level DoF, that is given freedom to manage squad without interference from Joel or the latest manager/ big agent. As I expected, the signing of Ronnie will go down as just the latest joke move.
He built part of that Madrid side and then got kicked out. Same at Chelsea, us and Spurs. There's a reason he's at Roma. No-one else would take him.
There is a reason for all that preference for names rather than profiles. Shirt sales, glazernomics. Another 10 years down this road also we won't win the title.
They needed bodies to fill up the squad, pacify the fans, get new sponsorships coming in maintain sales. That explains the sheer "incompetence" that we been seeing. Its not really, its just geared towards money for them. Trophies and the rest are just bonus.
Well articulated. Hit the nail on the head. When you add the lack of any sort of direction at the club and having different managers wanting players of different playing styles, we end up with with what we have today. Here is hoping that the recent developments in the management of the club will finally get us back on track. Ralf is very likely to play a key role in this process.
There is a long list of players who came to us and then looked past their best. It's an us thing rather than a them thing.
I have no issue with us signing established players or up and comers who are known in world football. My issue with recruitment and scouting is how do you approve the purchase of such a flawed footballer as AWB or Fred for the amounts they were bought for. I wonder if the managers themselves reject the opinions of scouts.
First thing you notice about AWB is how poor he is on the ball same with Fred his youtube video showed him chasing his 1st touch for fecks sake. Lindelof poor in the air and physically weak gets signed to a pl team (still better than slabhead).
If he looking to take over control of a major football team? Worth a punt.