Can anyone's view on ETH change this season?

[AFC NimbleThumb]

Blind faith.

All the Glazer's fault apparently.

Yep.

I’ve been asking this quite a bit lately with 0 responses.

 

[Rista]

Yep.

I’ve been asking this quite a bit lately with 0 responses.

Everyone at the club deserves to be sacked and lose their job including the players and the tea lady. But not the manager. Not his fault everybody else is shit.

 

[Insanity]

You want to throw bodies forward and trust Maguire, Evans, Varane to mop up?

Great idea.

Worst post in a while.

Sorry I bad mouthed Daddy....

Rest, it would be too mean to comment on your comprehension skills.

 

[Ole'sgunnarwin]

If Nacho scores, that will be all Madrid's back 4 and keeper on the scoresheet

 

[MikeKing]

Anyones view of a any PL manager is capable of changing in a day. That is not really a big question, it happens every season. In fact, statistically it has happened to a United manager every second season, for the last 10 years or so.

If to be a serious question, then it should be changed to this: Is it possible that this time, it wont happen?

 

[Shark]

Think I've seen enough now to have my mind made up on his abilities as a manager/coach. Even if he temporarily turned it around what happens when we pick up another few injuries? They're part and parcel of a season, especially when going for a title. His system, whatever it is, just falls completely falls apart again?

 

[Trequarista10]

If he abandons the ludicrous 4141 formation (or whatever you want to call it) then he has a chance of changing my opinion. Or, less likely, if suddenly the ludicrous 4141 formation started working.

The irony is many fans wanted us to switch from 4231 to a 433 to give us more control of the midfield. ETH has made the switch in the worst possible way though, because instead of removing the AM for an extra CM, he's removed a CM in place of an extra AM. Especially when several of the midfielders we have are simply not suited to the role. Bruno is only a #10 and nothing else, McTominay sometimes has about 20 touches in a game, 90% of which aren't in the actual midfield area of the pitch because he hides, Mount looks far more like a roaming AM than an actual midfielder (although a conclusive judgement on this experiment is somewhat delayed due to injury), Eriksen on the ball fits the requirements but off the ball doesn't so in 90% of games he is just overrun, Hannibal might fit the system but doesn't get a run out. And the lone DM is tasked with an impossible job that even a hybrid Kante-Busquets regen couldn't succeed with. The inverted full backs don't make up for it, especially not when we also have inverted forwards so our attacks are very narrow and predictable.

 

[wolvored]

I was excited when we got him and even though last season was a mixed bag results wise, we finished 3rd, 2 finals and a trophy. However we have gone backwards this season. Still no style of play and scoring is as bad as ever.
His transfers have been poor overall as well. Then its the after match comments he comes out with. "We dominated..." after getting turned over. "We stick to the plan...", what plan?
His insistance on playing Mainoo, a good player, but a young novice as the only deep lying midfielder, with McTom and Bruno virtually 2nd strikers, so we have a big hole in midfield is baffling as well. Especially as we get run through virtually every game. He buys a big CF then never plays to his strengths and thats a big reason we aint scoring.
If we dont get top 4 we ought to get shut. Even Potter couldnt do worse, could he?

 

[NewGlory]

I was 100% behind him until recently, but the faults he has shown this season, stubbornness, blindness, horrible decision-making makes me believe that no matter what he does or achieves this season, it will all be a fluke and fundamentally he doesn't have what it takes, long term

There is no doubt I would prefer him gone in the Summer, but there is also big doubt if Glazers/INEOS can recruit anybody better. No desire to see him go and get a Porter or fecking Southgate

 

[Waynne]

Absolutely nothing he does will change my mind about him.

I want him gone but I'd keep him on until the higher ups shake up the football structure and hopefully start a search in earnest for the next manager at the end of the season.

 

[niima]

He showed he is not at the level of Pen and Klopp so he cannot win any major trophy as long as they re here.
We should move on.

 

[Yagami]

Erik is done for me.

I know I'm the only one, but his first transfer window already gave me red flags. Casemiro and Antony were horrendous buys, but I thought let's see how we play. I tried to be positive last season but our football really wasn't entertaining either. It was just Rashford in some great goalscoring form.

Then I thought, let's see if he's learnt his lesson this transfer window a few months ago, but no. We splash the majority of our budget on Mount who's the polar opposite of what we needed in central midfield on top of some more questionable signings. This has led to one of the worst seasons many of us have experienced as Manchester United fans.

• Two of the most humiliating defeats to our rivals. 6-3 & 7-0
• Terrible transfer signings
• Being unable to prioritise the right type of footballer. I thought this would be the guy to finally bring in some press resistant players after watching his Ajax teams, but no. It seems like he wouldn't recognise one if one were served to him on his Sunday roast.
• Going back on his footballing ethos. He comes here and says he can't/won't get us playing like his Ajax teams because it's not what Manchester United's about, completely ignoring the fact that we wanted him in the first place to evolve our game.
• His tactics are amateurish at the best of times. Especially when it comes to leaving our midfield wide open.

I could go on but it's clear that he's not good enough and isn't going to turn things around.

 

[Paul778]

Absolutely nothing he does will change my mind about him.

I want him gone but I'd keep him on until the higher ups shake up the football structure and hopefully start a search in earnest for the next manager at the end of the season.

Nothing has come out from INEOS. ETH said he's had a constructive meeting, but that easy. Go into a room with him, listen smile and nod. There is nothing you can do about him for 2-3 weeks.

There is nothing about him that INEOS would want to keep. He cannot manage the players - he's too stubborn - even players that have played for him in the past cannot play for him now. Style of play, team selection, in game management, recruitment.

All of the above is terrible and more importantly doesn't show any shoots of recovery.

He has 18 months left on his contract with the option of another year. I would be absolutely amazed if INEOS haven't interviewed multiple candidates behind the scenes to find someone who'll fit into their new structure with the intention of letting ETH go within a couple of weeks of picking up the keys to Carrington.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Unless he changes formation and hits an incredible run of form, it's looking pretty grim.

The thing is his basic principles are wrong and he never deviates. His teams has such gaping holes on purpose it's like Jenna Jameson is in our team.

He was supposed to coach the players and make them better. What a joke that we're back to jurassic park football.

 

[Desert Eagle]

Essentially do all of the following:

- Go back to that form we had last season between the world cup and the mickey cup final. But do it this time for 5 months instead of two.
- Win at least a match by dominating another top team (City, Liverpool or Arsenal). Shouldn't be impossible cause two of those matches we have at home.
- Show that he can win a couple of difficult away matches against teams in the top half of the table (City, Chelsea, Aston Villa, Brighton).
- Finally start playing good football, essentially create lots of chances, and not be at the bottom of the table in almost every attacking stats (goals, xG, chances created, touches in the opposition box).
- By doing so, reach UCL (or get very close to reaching that).

Manage this and I would be happy for him to continue the next season. But not with him getting a new contract, unless shows further improvement in the next season.

I do not care much about FA Cup. Good if we win it, but it is essentially a bonus. The league and UCL are all that matter, and we already failed in one and are failing in the other.

Sure if he does all this I'm with you but the chances of it happening are slim to feck all. So the current question is really should we get a new guy who gets a long preseason essentially or do we wait till the summer to cut ETH loose?

 

[Bestofthebest]

He had a poor start to last season but picked up afterwards only to show how far behind City and Liverpool we were, even though we beat ‘pool and City at O.T. However, for the most part, we did not play particularly good football but got away with it due to Rashford‘s incredible form but even then we didn’t have a style of our own. Winning the League Cup, getting to FA cup final and finishing top four only glossed over our overall performances. Yes, some of our results were good but our manner of winning often wasn’t great. This year we have recruited the likes of Mount (why? I ask), Hojlund (same again, especially for 70 odd million) , Antony’s performance has gone to rot and we have had a plethora of injuries resulting in constantly changing line ups. However, we are Man Utd and we should be able to deal with all these problems better than most clubs. In my opinion I think EtH has lost the faith of the players by his handling of the crisis and he doesn’t know how to get players back on his side. He needs to go but it won’t happen till near the end of the season and I’m sure Ratcliffe will be looking for replacements even as I write this. God only knows if he is up to the task.

 

[Roboc7]

He’s set his stall out to play transition football, it won’t be good enough and he’ll get sacked. As Ole found out it’s very difficult to spend years playing sit deep, counter attacking football then try to pivot to something very different.

In a way I’d prefer the flaws of the manager and the players to continue to be exposed for rest of season, we need meaningful change and a flash in the pan run of good form would do more harm than good in medium and longer term.

 

[Tom Cato]

If Erik is dependent on all players being fit to get something out of the squad, its probably not going anywhere.

 

[Revan]

Sure if he does all this I'm with you but the chances of it happening are slim to feck all. So the current question is really should we get a new guy who gets a long preseason essentially or do we wait till the summer to cut ETH loose?

I actually do not expect him to be able to do either of those, let alone all. We couldn’t even dominate Spurs B team, no chance in hell we will dominate any of the top teams.

He is a poor manager (for what we want to reach) that should have been sacked months ago.

 

[Paul778]

I think he will be let go in a very similar way to how LVG was let go.

He will be telling everyone he has the boards backing in a press conference when one of the journos tells him that his sacking has been announced on the website.

The board is doing what a board does - making strategic plans and not letting anyone know until all the pieces are in place and they are ready to act.

 

[Andycoleno9]

Not playing like underdog against every decent oppo would be a good start for me. I want to see us playing even game (especially away) against best teams.
Also seeing us dominating midtable clubs is something which i expect from any manager.

 

[wolvored]

I think the only way your view could change, unless you're a fanboy, is finishing top 4 or win the FA cup. Anything else he has to be sacked. Nearly 2 years in and we are going backwards.

 

[Revan]

I think the only way your view could change, unless you're a fanboy, is finishing top 4 or win the FA cup. Anything else he has to be sacked. Nearly 2 years in and we are going backwards.

Why should winning FA Cup change anything if we end 10th or so in the table, and play like relegation team against any top team while getting relegation team results against them?

We just played like a relegation team against Spurs B team at Old Trafford. So winning FA Cup should not change anything. In either case, the discussion is academic, we won’t get close to winning it.

 

[wolvored]

Why should winning FA Cup change anything if we end 10th or so in the table, and play like relegation team against any top team while getting relegation team results against them?

We just played like a relegation team against Spurs B team at Old Trafford. So winning FA Cup should not change anything. In either case, the discussion is academic, we won’t get close to winning it.

Some fans will see a cup win as maybe we should give him a bit longer. Like you, not me if we win it and finish 10th, but finish 5th and an FA cup win, then that could change quite a few minds.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

It's unrealistic and improbable. So he can't do anything.

The sample size is simply too big to ignore. He's just not good enough to lead a title charge.

 

[RedRonaldo]

With Casemiro and Martinez back to squad I expect improvements. If he fails to improve significantly to the level of our least expectation by end of season, he has to go. 2 years of coaching/playing and 400m spent, really it should be more than enough to see some improvements made to our overall style of play to an acceptable level.

The only reasons he is still here and not get the sacked are:

1. Not sure any interim manager available could help us getting better at this point.

2. For all his mistakes made in transfer market and poor performance on the pitch this season, he still managed to turn us around last season when he took over a largely disjointed team from Rangnick. I think this deserves some credits and earned his stay longer maybe at most until end of this season.

 

[Chicharo]

Even if we won FA cup and qualified for CL (which currently appears attainable with a top-five position), I would still have reservations about him being the right manager for us. And I don't think we can do either...
He should go

 

[Stack]

I dont like him but if we start to see some hints of improved play as the season evolves and also we see signs that the new partners in the ownership of the club look like they can improve things off the pitch then I could change my mind. I think he is hopeless but I would love for him to show me to be wrong

 

[crackers0seven]

I'm a utd fan and I want erik gone. Don't think he's good enough, the team has no structure ,no style or plan and looks like 11 strangers on the pitch. Basically I think the level of coaching in training must be terrible. Numerous teams have outplayed us this season and we are one of the worst coached teams in league.. but My real point here is ,I was talking to another fan today and he was harping on about its the players,it's the deadwood,it's the structure of club,every manager for last 10yrs has been hung out be the players etc. I said alot of the deadwood is gone,erik has bought his player(onana Anthony) and its still the players... utds 11 is surely better than Bournemouths 11,but a coached Bournemouth team played us off the pitch. Yes some of our players aren't top quality,last season it was ddg fault,now we've a sweeper keeper and what's changed.. I'm sick of hearing its the players,yes some of them are lazy. But some fans are using it as get out of jail free card for the manager. Opinions??

 

[Lost bear]

After initially supporting EtH and believing that this current season was so bad due to injuries ( which is indeed a factor), I have now lost patience with the man. The major reason i have lost faith lies in his stubborn insistence on a one man defensive midfield, which puts even the potentially excellent Mainoo in an impossible position. Our midfield is wide open for any half decent team.

In addition, his transfers have been poor and were always a little baffling ( we were desperate for Mount, apparently). At times it looks like he doesn’t really know what he wants, strategically. His substitutions are uncertain and lack timing, and he cannot seem to get the players to play as a team.

Obviously there are structural problems at the club and it’s not a matter of either/or, Ten Hag or the Glazers. But he took the post on knowing that the Glazers were in charge, and presumably thought he could transform us in spite of the owners. He hasn’t , and has not really given us any sign ( apart from the early part of last season) that he is ever going to take the club up a level. He would frankly need a miracle to revive my hopes in him now.

 

[Stig]

I'm almost at the point of no return for him. I just don't understand these decisions:

- persisting with Rashford as CF for too many matches
- not playing 2 DMS or a 4-2-3-1 when it's obvious we can't score much
- his substitutions are sometimes nonsensical
- persisting with McT just because he scores a few goals
- playing good football just 20% of the time
- not staying with Rashford on left and Garnacho on right just because of an illness the last match
- not reigning in Bruno with his stupid passes
- most importantly, his transfers for Antony, Amrabat and Hojlund make me question his judgment regarding talent

I could think of more with time.

I'm with you. The more I think about things he does or doesn't do the more I think he's simply not good enough.

 

[Ahmer Baig]

My view on him changed, I want him sacked.

 

[OmarUnited4ever]

My biggest gripe is the way we play, I accept that results are important but I can't see his philosophy working and he can't get his team playing, look at Spurs, they were missing 2 starting mids in Bissouma and Maddison and Sarr has been excellent and wasn't available, and they also didn't have their starting attackers in Son and Kulusevski, instead they had plodders like Hojberg and Skipp dominate us in midfield, even their attackers aren't that good in Werner, Richarlison & Johnson, however, they easily dominated us and we were lucky the likes of Maddison & Son weren't there, Ange is able to get his team playing the way he wants them to play, Ten Hag can't somehow and it is just awful, disjointed, disorganized, uncontrolled, lackluster and lousy football based on reaction and counter attacking with fast players.

 

[justsomebloke]

I wanted to ask this question to both camps:
Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?
Those against Ten Hag - is there anything that can be salvaged this season for you to think he might be able to turn it around for us?

This is not designed to turn into an us vs them situation among posters entrenched in either side. It's more gauging what's needed for sentiment to change on both sides.

For me, I'm still backing our manager but I would probably stop trusting him & be indifferent to part ways if we exited the FA Cup to a team we should really beat + fell out of CL places by season's end. His CL disaster, poor transfer windows and open games in the first third of the season has made me question him for sure, but I want to give him a chance to turn it around in the second half. By turn it around though, I want results and wouldn't really hang my hat on injuries or circumstance any further - doubt even the staunchest defender of Ten Hag can argue with a whole season of underperformance.

Those for Ten Hag - what would need to happen this season for you to prefer his exit?

For Ten Hag to be sacked mid-season, that would require more or less a collapse I think. In the off-season, it's a different question - on the current trajectory it's certainly something that might end up being considered. I don't agree with your approach that certain results is the critical issue, it's a more a question of is there confidence in where he's trying to take our game, and his ability to get us there. The results this season doesn't necessarily answer those questions conclusively in themselves. Ultimately it's a question that has to be answered by the hierarchy of the football department. I'd feel a lot better about that situation if we had a football department that merited any sort of confidence. And I still think we need to have that before there's much point in uprooting things on the coaching side.

 

[Lash]

for me being Ten Hag in:

I think if with Martinez back and others like Casemiro, Shaw coming back into the 1st XI, if we can't do the pressing traps we were doing at the start of the season and creating chances through fast transitions, it's a good time to call it quits.

 

[Wolfbot]

I want him gone and to change my opinion he would need to change pretty much everything about how he currently sets up the team and manages them.

There are maybe some mitigating factors in a high number of injuries which may be due to how many games we played last year (Liverpool really struggled the season before after playing in a stupid amount of games).

Right from the start of the season though, the players have looked less fit and physically capable than the opposition, his tactical set ups and demands of the players seem to leave players isolated and exposed regularly, the opposition are finding it easy to play through us and we can't offset that by scoring goals or even looking very threatening, quite the opposite most games.

We often only seem to play well for a short period at the beginning of a game or after conceding and trying to get something, this points to the lack of ability to motivate the team to play at a high level for the whole 90 or that they are not conditioned adequately to allow them to compete well for a whole game.

Substitutions are often questionable in terms of timing or personnel.

Then the biggest factor for me, after all this time we don't look like a team moving in the right direction, we've looked OK in games againt high line, pro active opponents sometimes, then immediately follow it up with a shite performance.

He doesn't really change the tactical approach game to game, or make much in the way of adjustments in game to respond to the opponent or to respond to the fact that what we're doing isn't working. That's to me just the basics you'd expect from a competent manager.

If he's trying to implement some really clever way of playing, it's not working and he apparently refuses to go back to basics and build from there. (You could argue he has with the "hoof into space" approach people mention, but we don't even do that convincingly.

Looks to be a truly terrible manager at this point so a lot would have to change for my view to change.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Yep.

I’ve been asking this quite a bit lately with 0 responses.

I have given plenty of reasons and never get a comprehensive response. People pick bits and say "well that club suffered the same thing" but theres no real comparison.

It is hard enough to keep players focused and coach them even at the best of times. But if you were a player at United in the last 18 months, regardless of manager

- club future is unclear,
- your own future is unclear
- Managers future is unclear
- chronic injuries mean you won’t be realistically challanging for anything
- your squad is probably getting some of these injuries due to the gruelling season
- the club having zero emergency money and offering Weghorst/reguillon level solutions wouldn’t exactly warm the cockles
- the club seems to have continual dramas with players , ronaldo , Anthony , greenwood, Sancho
- you will know that the best teams have the most consistent lineups and we can’t have that this season
- you will know that many fans and pundits and media won’t factor in anything other then results as these will be considered "excuses" not mitigating factors
- the teams you are competing against May have some of these issues but not them all at the same time

Since Pep and Klopp do not have to put up with alot of these issues, we dont really know how they might manage them at United.

You look at Liverpools really shocking form last season and the only explanation given was fatigure from the season before. United played nearly as many games as Liverpool and yet ETH isnt given the same leeway as Klopp. People will say its cause Klopp has had success, but either Klopps squad was fatigued or it wasnt. If it was fatigued, then the same applies to Uniteds squad this season. Most clubs have fatigue and injury issues because of the world cup, well United had a more punishing season with that world cup so it stands to reason we are struggling more.

Any of the top clubs challanging have consistent lineups. Even spurs, who people keep saying have a similar injury issue, have had 9 of their main starters available for 75% of their games. We have had 3. Its not really the same is it ? People keep singling out one club or there who may have some issues at sometime, but to be frank, NO CLUB has had the same amount of issues as United this season.

A club sale or ownership situation casts doubt over the managerial role among many things. This can be enough on its own to unsettles squads. ETH could be dead man walking since SJR effectively joined the race to buy into the club. That helps nobody.

I will not say that all thise makes it ok for United to be playing as poorly as they have been. But this idea that they should be able to just switch into gear because "copenhagan" is misguided. The club has been ravaged all season and cant build up any momentum in any area of the park. I would say player confidence is consistently low, for numerous reasons.

How much of this is down to ETH ? I honestly do not know but I think people dismiss all these things waaaay to quickly. I would understand if ETH was let go to be fair, but I would like to see how the team plays when he has a fit team. I would say it will be late February before we will really see if the issue was injuries as it takes time for the team to build momentum and players to get to full fitness. I understand why some fans want him gone. I just feel it would be interesting to see if he is proven right or wrong and if we could see once and for all if he can recover. I mean no manager really recovers from where we are at, so it would be uniquely satisfying.

But, I cant argue with all the stats that work against him. I cant say how much of the United sh*tshow is to blame for our season, but I reject any insinuation the issues that ETH has had to manage are the same ones every other manager has had to navigate.

 

[NLunited]

I think if the following doesn’t happen, he should leave in June.

-Improvement in general: more consistent performances. Our ‘base’ level needs to go up.
-Specific improvements in defending in midfield and on set pieces.
-Finish at least in 7th place. This season is lost, but not qualifying for Europe is too much.