Can anyone's view on ETH change this season?

tomaldinho1

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When I answered the question, I tried to keep it within reason obviously
Ok a reasonable thing that could happen if we can sort ourselves out.
We finish top four and back end of the season have a string of good performances, goals come and we beat a couple of the bigger teams. I’d say it seems unlikely but not crazy.

How would you feel then?
 

pocco

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It's quite annoying that top 4 is suddenly a successful season now. It should be more than that. We want to see a plan, progress, a vision for the future. Finishing 4th means nothing, and is a step back on last season. We all thought we'd be much better than this after finishing 3rd and investing heavily. I think it's now impossible for this season to be a success.
 

kouroux

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Ok a reasonable thing that could happen if we can sort ourselves out.
We finish top four and back end of the season have a string of good performances, goals come and we beat a couple of the bigger teams. I’d say it seems unlikely but not crazy.

How would you feel then?
Tbh, the way I looked at it is predicting how the rest of the season would pan. I'm realizing that answering this question isn't really for me as I've seen too many deficiencies in ETH to even hypothesize about an improvement
 

tomaldinho1

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Tbh, the way I looked at it is predicting how the rest of the season would pan. I'm realizing that answering this question isn't really for me as I've seen too many deficiencies in ETH to even hypothesize about an improvement
But if that scenario happened - even as unlikely as you think it might be - it sounds like you’d not change your mind?
 

pacifictheme

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At the start of the season I was behind him but now I am really not sure either way. I would say if by the end of the season I don't see a genuine identity or style of play I would lean towards him going. Two seasons should be enough time to get that working, even if it doesn't work well. Generally so far it feels like we don't have one at all.
 

r0663664

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Delivering exciting football with a fluid front 3 and young players establishing themselves as the mainstay of the team. Lastly, knowing the players that you brought in is not good enough. That's the only way that I can see him with United. If ETH writes a book one day, I am pretty sure that he would say he under estimated the physicality and the speed to premier league and that is the reason why he was sack.
 

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It's quite annoying that top 4 is suddenly a successful season now. It should be more than that. We want to see a plan, progress, a vision for the future. Finishing 4th means nothing, and is a step back on last season. We all thought we'd be much better than this after finishing 3rd and investing heavily. I think it's now impossible for this season to be a success.
True. Plus, what if we finish fifth - and England does well enough in Europe to secure us a CL place next season? Will that mean that the goalposts have shifted and now top 5 is good enough?

The difference between being in the top 4 and not being in the top 4 could come down to a point, or goal difference. How superficial and silly would it be to decide's if a manager has done well enough or not based on that?

I was happy with last season not because of the League Cup or third place, but because of the football we played for several months, until February. I was willing to accept that we struggled for the rest of the season due to fixture congestion and injuries, and hoped we'd build on what we showed back then. Unfortunately, it did not happen.
 

redshaw

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Still hold some hope he can get back to what he had in those first 6 months but expecting things to get worse or not much better.

I would say Casemiro and Martinez and Rashford's goals were critical last season and masked a poor team. If we can get these three playing well then we can improve a lot but it also highlights just how terrible we are and ETH hasn't improved the squad this summer and chosen a strange plan. For 10 months now we've slowly got worse and worse and are on course for scoring ~40 goals and conceding ~60.

If he does reverse the form he has a chance of staying and trusting the new regime to build a plan and get the right technical players in. ETH has to know we can't rely on his limited market knowledge.
 

Ole'sgunnarwin

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No, it's disgraceful he's still here, he has a -5 goal difference, lost half his games for a squad worth over a billion. His biggest signing was Antony who he knew all about and he's one of the worst players I've ever seen put on a red shirt. The football is horrendous to watch
Still annoyed that half the people on this forum are behind him. It's just getting worse and worse. Any big club gets rid of him, maybe we're not a big club anymore.
 

NZT-One

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For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.
Bing Bing Bing. Thats the right answer :)
 

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If he gets us into the CL for next season then I would be content for him to start next season as United manager, though not get a new contract unless there is a genuine title challenge next season.

Not overly bothered if Ten Hag is fired during the season or at the end of it, assuming we are on course to miss out on CL. Don't think it is realistic to expect INEOS to fire Ten Hag prior to appointing new Director of Football.

The whole - if we lose this match or that match, he should go, - ignores the dynamics of who actually makes that decision. It is a decision for a competent Director of Football who can assess the advantages/disadvantages of appointing a temporary manager, retaining Ten Hag or going straight for a new permanent appointment; as is abundantly clear, Murtough isn't remotely competent at this aspect of his job. INEOS need to determine the division of responsibilities prior to interviewing candidates for manager, then select the best fit for the role.

If Ten Hag really wants to retain his veto over transfers then I think he should be fired (at the end of season). He is evidently inept when it comes to transfers so we simply cannot afford for him to have any say whatsoever. Quite frankly, everyone involved in the Antony transfer should be dismissed just for the breathtaking incompetence of paying £85m for a £30m to £35m player who wasn't overly impressive in the Eredivisie. Then there's the mysterious Weghorst situation, choosing Onana and Martinez over cheaper alternatives, Amrabat loan.
 
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RuudTom83

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I feel the problems are bigger than any manager could fix…so I’m fairly understanding/easy on the current manager.

However I can’t get my head around EtH thinking a trio of Casemiro/Mount/Bruno was a good idea.

If he persists with those 3 (if they ever manage to stay fit) and it fails miserable then I would lay the blame for that firmly at EtH.

The other CB and CF issues are out of his control or not his doing imo.
 

Mr Smith

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I'm still ETH-in despite reservations about him. What would need to change for me to be ETH-out would probably include at least one of the following:
- Performances do not improve between now and the end of the season. I'm still confident we can see improvement based on how we performed last season and I think several factors out of ETH's control have contributed to our poor season so far (though I certainly don't absolve him of all blame). My justification for keeping him in is partly based on the expectation things will improve as players return from injury and/or play themselves back into form, as well as the fact that we'll not have European distractions, giving ETH more time to work with the players. Given these circumstances, if performances/results do not improve measurably by May then there won't be much justification for keeping him;
- A genuinely viable and attainable alternative becomes available. My other reason for not sacking Ten Hag would be that there is no realistic alternative candidate, so we might as well give him the time yo try and turn things around. If a serious candidate became available (especially in the summer) I'd be more open to changing, but right now I don't see one that's both suitable and attainable, so a change feels pointless.
 

sunama

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It's quite annoying that top 4 is suddenly a successful season now. It should be more than that. We want to see a plan, progress, a vision for the future. Finishing 4th means nothing, and is a step back on last season. We all thought we'd be much better than this after finishing 3rd and investing heavily. I think it's now impossible for this season to be a success.
I've been saying this for several years.
The 4th place trophy is now the holy grail for many fans.
4th place should get the manager sacked unless he wins trophies.
 

sunama

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No, it's disgraceful he's still here, he has a -5 goal difference, lost half his games for a squad worth over a billion. His biggest signing was Antony who he knew all about and he's one of the worst players I've ever seen put on a red shirt. The football is horrendous to watch
Still annoyed that half the people on this forum are behind him. It's just getting worse and worse. Any big club gets rid of him, maybe we're not a big club anymore.
Well...that's a good summary.
Put simply, ETH isn't good enough and he probably found his level in the Dutch League.
 

sunama

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For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.
I can't see how anything is going to change with regards to our playing style.
For some reason, ETH has abandoned the way Ajax played and has us playing in a new and terrible way.
 

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He’s had a very rough spell with injuries this season. I think I’ll judge him if he turns it around from now.
 

pocco

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He’s had a very rough spell with injuries this season. I think I’ll judge him if he turns it around from now.
That doesn't excuse finishing 4th in a weak CL group, losing to the likes of Bournemouth, Palace and Forest, whilst struggling with practically every game this season. And it's not like all those players got injured at the same time and have all been out at once. At various times this season all of our players have played, and even the injured ones have made no difference. Casemiro was actually being called for to be dropped anyway he was that bad.
 

tjb

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For me, Ten Haag must demonstrate that he can work with what he has now. For me, this means getting this group of players to play attacking football while being solid at the back. Doing this consistently over the next few months would prove to me that he is a good manager. Allowing me to believe that with some holes plugged in the squad he can acheive even more. Essentially, he would need to demonstrate in the short term that the football he plays is good enough for us to compete for or win the league/Champions League with the right set of players. I currently don't think he's come close to showing that in his time here. This would look like Wenger at Arsenal during the 2010's. He was able to win against most teams they came up against. However, there were inconsistencies in their away form and they struggled against top teams. For me, that's what a top manager with a limited squad looks like. Ten Haag hasn't shown himself to be that.

I also think the idea of a rebuild, given the size of our club and the money spent on players, is ridiculous. It's football, not basketball. We aren't drafting rookies and waiting for them to blossom. In football we actually have the ability for four months in the year to sign players from other clubs. It should never take 3 years to have 11 good players who can play good football together. In addition to this, at United, regardless of fans feeling towards the squad as a whole, we've always at a minimum had a top 6 squad. We've had top players and currently have some top players playing for us. Onana, Varane, Licha, Shaw, Casemiro, Bruno and Rashford have all been considered top class at various points in their career. Very few teams in the league can boast of having anything coming even close to that. We also have good young talent in Garnacho, Mainoo, Amad, Malacia and Hojlund. Mixed in with good players like Eriksen, Maguire, AWB and Dalot. This is not a bad squad and should be able to produce good football. It's the biggest reason I dislike people talking about transfers. Transfers are a distraction and it's discussion makes it seem as though there aren't good players in the squad. I don't think it's perfect. However, I do think the club and fans have been guilty of buying into the idea of managers need a, b and c players to make their system work. I think a good manager gets good players to play good football, regardless of it they are a perfect fit or not for their tactical plan. Managers have consistently used that excuse and gotten away with poor seasons as a result of this.

Things change from season to season. It shouldn't ever take a club of our size 3 years to mount a title challenge, I don't think any top team has ever had the rebuild people having been talking about for ten years.Top teams fix perceived gaps as soon as they become apparent; not waiting for two transfer windows to pass like we've done several times in the name of building progressively. If you don't have a DM, you buy a DM. If you don't have a striker, you try to buy a striker. With the only exception being when there's a young player within the squad who the manager would like to see in that role before making a decision, like Fergie did in 1995 with Beckham replacing Kanchelskis and Butt/Scholes replacing Ince. The point here is that squads don't need three years to rebuild. There should be an expectation of a challenge every year, looking to the next season as a maximum if a challenge seems impossible in the immediate term. Like Wenger discovered, time waits for noone, long term rebuilds don't work for top clubs, because other teams are also improving and the future isn't guaranteed. For me, it's this lack of urgency over the last ten years from Woodward/Arnold to the Managers to the players that has kept us where we are. If you close your eyes and tell your manager you will support them regardless of any performance they've put out on the field, they'll believe they can take ridiculous risks, will make terrible squad management decisions and will not be under fire enough to make tactical tweaks to fix losing situations. For 10 years, we've been allowing these managers get away with consistently average performances, with the thought that the football would improve the next season. Ironically, for all of these managers, the football never improved, no matter how much money we invested. Even in our downturn between 2004 and 2006, Fergie never openly came out and looked toward a rebuild. he simply signed two young potential superstars, hoping to win the league in every season. Strongly challenging in 2006. There were gaps in those teams, but that wasn't an excuse to look toward the future.

For me, Ten Haag is a symbol of United prior to Ineos coming in. He had already failed prior to their arrival and I don't see any change that Ineos can provide to him that would leave me expecting that he can get us to the top of the table. He would almost have to show that his tactics are far removed from anything we've seen this season. The only hope I have relating to him, comes from the way we played post world cup. The problem with that though is he's proven that he can't produce those performances if not at almost 100%, despite me wanting those performances to be what we produce when in 3rd gear.
 

hobbers

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Realistically no.

Because he'd have to get us playing good football, beating teams above us in the table, and at least getting a top 5 finish. Plus avoiding any more routs, any more humiliations, any more sickening games like Bournemouth or Forest that were harder to watch than watching someone else's vomit dry.

At this point it's clear he's not capable of it. Things might improve a bit if Martinez is back fully fit but that's not going to make our attack any less impotent. Or stop us being the easiest team to play against and score against in the league, because that's a system and coaching problem not who's on the pitch.
 

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For me, it's nothing about results. It's all about performances and seeing the light at the end of the tunnel. So a clear upturn in our attack with more structure in our play. That should produce better results anyway.

If we continue to plod along barely being able to score and our defense leaking goals in then it doesn't matter if he flukes the FA Cup.
I think it’s also about consistency. Consistency in how we are trying to play. Consistency in our performances. And consistency in what our future strategy looks like. Like you I’m not fussed on results, and ultimately what I really want to see is what Ineos do with the clubs structure and football support roles. For me until that’s fixed we can’t have long term success anyway. But for ETH to be given a shot as we progress the wider footballing journey, he has to show we can play better and play better consistently.
 

RoadTrip

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Realistically no.

Because he'd have to get us playing good football, beating teams above us in the table, and at least getting a top 5 finish. Plus avoiding any more routs, any more humiliations, any more sickening games like Bournemouth or Forest that were harder to watch than watching someone else's vomit dry.

At this point it's clear he's not capable of it. Things might improve a bit if Martinez is back fully fit but that's not going to make our attack any less impotent. Or stop us being the easiest team to play against and score against in the league, because that's a system and coaching problem not who's on the pitch.
Not as simple as that though sadly. Not saying ETH isn’t at fault but if the players are stupid (and they are) it’s very difficult to decipher if we play shit because ETHs tactics are awful or if we play shit because the players can’t execute what they are meant to. Obviously the reality is it’s a bit of both at the moment I think, but I do think who is on the pitch matters.
 

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My view might change, depending on how the 2nd half of this season shakes out. I felt when Ten Hag was hired that we finally had someone with a vision, high standards, and a plan for bringing back the style of United, with trophies along the way.

When the first choice players are fit and playing, I would expect to see a lot better football. Winning trophies is great, but I watch to be entertained, and our football has been boring as feck lately. If Ten Hag has his first choice players and we are sliced through at will and we still can't hit the broad side of a barn, then he has to go.
 

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No. He showed me he's incapable of leading this team to any significant title challenge or even playing watchable, entertaining football. Top 4 doesn't cut it for me anymore, sorry. Will be same crap again next year.
Putting aside the fact we have spent our money badly (which ETH must take some blame for by the way), along with the poisoned vibe and culture that seems to surround our football club, as well as the genuine quality of our squad compared to the other top teams, I’m not sure a title challenge is a realistic expectation.

Doesn’t justify the awful football we play every other game though.
 

hobbers

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Not as simple as that though sadly. Not saying ETH isn’t at fault but if the players are stupid (and they are) it’s very difficult to decipher if we play shit because ETHs tactics are awful or if we play shit because the players can’t execute what they are meant to. Obviously the reality is it’s a bit of both at the moment I think, but I do think who is on the pitch matters.
But they did execute what they were meant to from September to February last season.

ETH steered the tactics in a bizarre direction over the summer, made the wrong transfers that didnt even really fit the system he's pivoted (ha, pun) to

Basically I think it comes down to a few key players having excellent seasons last season, and that papered over enormous chasms in his coaching and tactical nous. Not entirely dissimilar to what happened with Ole and it's funny both of them seemed to decide partway through their time here that the end goal was for the team to be gods of transition play.

And both of them are absolutely fecking woeful at keeping the squad fit and making decisions to positively influence games.
 

KikiDaKats

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Changing my view? Don’t much about that.

Football teams are meant to be competitive and if ETH doesn’t know how to get his team to be competitive, there is no mind changing, let someone else have a go.

If he can get the team to string a 5 game winning streak in the Prem right now my enthusiasm will get back right on track. Every fan understands winning trophies is not a given but being competitive is base requirement at Manchester United.

This SAF adventure we are trying to enamour ETH or any manager that takes over should stop. Fergie was unique just like Pep is unique, doubt city will be looking for the next Pep when he leaves. If the ambitions and ability of manager are not on display after 6 months at a club, patience and mind changing talk are an insult to the fans.
 

RedBanker

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I get you have a view and I think it's fair enough.

For me it's twofold:

1. I think we need a stable period and

2. Although I'm not saying he will be the next SAF or take us to the glory land, I do think the "over achievement" is down to him, in my opinion based on how he has handled some of the shit at the club.

I get he has bought bad in terms of how Antony has been, even Hojlund. However I do think had Sancho not happened, had Ronaldo not happened and had Greenwood not happened it was a good plan.

The plan being you need to bed players in and give them a season to get up to speed with the Prem. Again I use likes of Vidic and Evra as greats who were out of their depth to start.

Honestly the club is a shit show. No manager is going to come in and replace aging and not good enough players in one season and expect continuity and all players achieving their max.

And yes I could be wrong but opinions and all that.
I think he is as bad as Frank De Boer. Both came with hyped reputations after winning things in a Mickey mouse league. Both started off horribly in the PL. ETH dumped his so called philosophy and immediately resorted to hoofball to save his job. De Boer is now jobless after being fired somewhere in the Arab league. ETH will end up similarly.
 

tenpoless

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To be fair he was still a question mark for me even after last season, even if I think he was quite successful if you think about what was going against him.

This season however the question mark is only getting bigger so unless if both the performances and the results improve massively (not one but has to be both at the same time) then I'd support looking for a new manager, even if I dont know who myself.

We need to shorten the time we give to 'failing' managers, cut our losses early and move on. We kept Jose and Ole for too long and neither did us any favour.
 

NLunited

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For some their opinion changes every week completely it seems like.

The season isn’t completely lost: we still have the FA cup.

More important is to work on our playstyle: Ten Hag has stuck it out with the pressing playstyle this season, even though it doesn’t work most of the time. Whether that pays off in the end, is the question.

For those who want to fire the manager because we spend a lot and should compete for the title, I have one word: Chelsea.
 

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To be fair he was still a question mark for me even after last season, even if I think he was quite successful if you think about what was going against him.

This season however the question mark is only getting bigger so unless if both the performances and the results improve massively (not one but has to be both at the same time) then I'd support looking for a new manager, even if I dont know who myself.

We need to shorten the time we give to 'failing' managers, cut our losses early and move on. We kept Jose and Ole for too long and neither did us any favour.
This is where our "structure," however broad a term it is, lets us down. A properly functioning club would ideally have multiple options, or at least an option lined up for whenever it clearly looks like our manager isn't going to cut it, before the rot completely sets in.

And on that note, I've really turned on him after the Brighton game but crossed the point of no return after the 0-3 back to back vs Newcastle and City. Strictly speaking, I'll reconsider if we suddenly look like a side that knows what to do in attack and win 90%+ of our remaining games this season which again, looks extremely unlikely all things considered.
 

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Play with a convincing style and show an urgency on the press and counter press is all I'm asking for. I'm not concerned about the results.

Structure or no structure, any decent professional coach should be able get a team playing with some sort of unity. We often look like 11 individual players all vying for a lucky moment to fall our way. Whilst we've had an ongoing injury crisis, the players that have come in have no right to deliver the amateur crap they have been dishing up under a proper coaching regimen.
 

Insanity

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We are 18 months in his tenure what is going to change magically in the next 5 months?

- Our away record against any half decent team isn't an anomaly or due to some injury crisis or structure.
- Has ETH learned to rotate the squad. Will he from now on stop running players into the ground until they are injured or too fatigued? May be he won't have to with only a game/week for the rest of the season. However, will it change next season?
- What from the last 18 months suggests that his in game management has gotten better?
- Will his football become less risk averse? We scored 58 goals in 38 league games last season and have scored only 22 in 20 this season.
- Our style of play remains painfully slow and dull after 18 months. Just the return of Martinez and Casemiro will change that? Why didn't it change last season or the beginning of this season when they were both playing?
- We have seen some of the heaviest defeats in the last 18 months with Martinez, Varane and Casemiro in the team. However, their return from injuries now will suddenly change that somehow?

Also, this magical structure,
So, he couldn't have the team perform with his hind-picked players in Antony, Martinez, Malacia, Casemiro, Onana, Mount, Amrabat, Hojlund, but now under the local lad and his magical structure Onana will learn how to keep goal, Martinez will get stronger and taller; Antony will get faster, learn how to beat his man & use his right foot; Mount will pass like Scholes, Amrabat will suddenly play the game at 1.5x speed and ETH will become a top coach.

People think ETH is failing because of the structure but I think we wouldn't have hired this overrated dutch hack, the second coming of de Boer, if we had a proper structure. Acquiescing to his demand for transfer control was one of the stupidest things to do. It's equivalent to giving a monkey a bottle of whiskey and keys to your Ferrari. He has pushed the club back with his 400m of dross that'll take a while, and lost of wasted pounds in wages, to get rid of.

But hey, stranger things have happened.
 
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Something the best coaches have done from the age at which I could understand tactics and nuance is show why they are the coaches and you, as a fan, are armchair, playing catch up after the fact.

Fergie could field a lineup that would have the fans in uproar upon announcement as some anomalous piece or other was relied upon in lieu of the logical component, on paper. Come full time, more often than not, fans and media alike would be purring and pawing over what they had witnessed and became masters of hindsight when nary a person had called the intent prior to the outcome.

Mourinho ushered in a few concepts that left you in no doubt he was the man, no matter how contemptuous he was perceived as.

Benitez at his best would tweak and adjust non-stop and the pieces moved around the board in a manner that had him able to compete and be a thorn and obstacle to any team.

Klopp has had the ability to create sieges and onslaughts, which force the opposition to cater to his game and his plan as well as weather his prepared storm. At his best, his adjustments keep the screw turning for the entirety of a match and win or lose, the way his plans and will are imposed on a game have him acknowledged as no less than 2nd best in the world.

Pep basically moonwalks on concepts and takes to the extent he could announce any seemingly nonsensical system and the world would have to wait and see whether it has grounds in reality before renouncing it. The key being Pep is a master of contingency, bait and switch and what may seem to be could be illusory or his plan for the opposition to excitedly fall into.

There are so many more managers (Sacchi, Capello, Lippi, Van Gaal, Hiddink, Heynckes, Del Bosque, Simeone and on and on) throughout the years that have carried their own nuanced approach to the game that perfectly outlined why they are what they are. I expected exactly the same from ten Hag - whatever his niche was going to be it was going to be as special as what brought any of the aforementioned to the table as peers prepped and ready for battle.

By now, I think it was folly on my part and that he's simply not of that stock. All my assessments and belief was based around him being of that stock - like how there's a serious suspicion and inkling Xabi Alonso is going to be - and if he's simply not of that standing and capability then everything else has to be adjusted accordingly.

There's not a single manager listed who at their best was able to be humiliated or routed or outcoached or left to look amateur as a game unfolded, and their adjustments and understanding got to grips with the task at hand, their influence was clear.

You don't need to look toward results; they are prerequisite; what you know with any of the managers mentioned is exactly what you're getting in terms of football played, passion, implementation, execution, intensity, focus, aggression and/or composure. Every single one of them you can close your eyes and envision what their team will bring to the table, at their best, mid or worst. Everything is clear and defined. At their best, and also during their ascent, there is no such thing as being routinely smashed or outcoached.

Quite frankly, if the manager or whoever comes in isn't of this classification where the expectation is they have it about them to be the next who comfortably sits at the table as a peer with the best of their era, I don't want them here. ETH 'winning me over' is via proving he should be spoken of like the peers of this time: Pep, Klopp, Simeone, Zidane, Ancelotti and so forth. If you're about it, your name and standing or even potential threat to breach should be without question and I think that is what ten Hag came here with the aura of. Xabi Alonso has had that baton handed over to him with talk of him being fit enough to be successor to Ancelotti or Pep, and this is exactly the presence and feeling that ten Hag either reestablishes or the search continues.

Just so there's no confusion or misunderstanding; that full house those destined for the very top carry. A young Clough; a Fergie at Aberdeen; a Mourinho at Porto; a Klopp at Dortmund and so on and so forth - ten Hag had exactly this coming from Ajax, so what in the feck went wrong? How has he kamikaze'd a second season and gotten a reverse midas touch? How has he been outcoached by managers of no repute? Why does he have such dire in-game management? Why does he not show the capability of the elite to run contingencies or parallels? How is it possible to be a supposed elite and get routinely exposed tactically? Rolling back to the opening paragraph; how is it that swathes of fans can consistently pre-empt the disastrous set up, flaws and weaknesses in what they're seeing, calling calamities well before they occur?

The best coaches silence fans and are proven right to such an extent that they earn an almost blinding loyalty, certainly until they wane and fade anyway. From preseason and even prior to that with the summer signings, there has been clear and justified doubt about what waa unfurling and it's been nothing but compounds since. As much as some of us want this guy to be what he was billed as, we're far too long in the tooth to be playing Emperor’s new clothes and calling the maladies has dulled to the point of redundancy.

I have lost faith that ten Hag is in that special bracket and it'd take the stuff of movies to turn that around, should he get the remainder of the season. Perquisites would be:

- team look better than the sum of parts (default of all managers listed)

- Respect and control midfield. There are zero excuses for us to have the midfield competence of a relegation level team.

- Proactive and fluid tactical competence; not only exert to win, but then kill games. We've had about four games all season that fit this billing - the majority of our wins have looked like struggles; nothing sustainable or suggestive of a capability to go on a imposing run.

- in-game management and contingency. This is where I’m of the opinion ten Hag is not of the calibre to be one of the foremost managers in football.

- The boldness and endeavour to keep trying to crack the attacking problems. Outside of Rashford's golden run, we've shown zero capability to be a coherent attacking threat. I don't believe we'd be so offensively flaccid with other coaches handling this exact same team and set of injuries. I don't think it's a coincidence that ten Hag's football generates so few chances, like LVG's did. The approach play is nowhere near good enough and is reliant on a higher class of player performing at a higher class of output to be effective - Rashford last season was ETH's equivalent of Robben at the WC for LVG, and without that quantum leap in ability and form in the final third, organically composed and constructive football is found wanting. To the sum of parts, ten Hag isn't going to be capable of making inferior players look like an attacking unit, like we see countless managers in the league doing. This is not going to be resolved by ten Hag unless he's given a world class front line to work with, ergo it's nothing I expect to see the kind of upswing with that states ten Hag is a special manager.

- I think playing good football ties in with controlling midfield, but yeah, aesthetic football that entertains would pique interest.

- learn and assimilate. Making the same mistakes over and over again is the opposite of endearing, in fact it segues into competence and whether someone is up to the job or exasperated and out of ideas. I lost a lot of faith in the manager because of this. Top coaches adapt.

Ten Hag basically has to revert back to the manager I thought we were getting and purge the calamities he's overseen throughout the season to win me over. Personally, I don't think he's capable of that, but if by some miracle he is, then yeah.. this ½ season can be written off and considered the anomaly.
 

Mike Smalling

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Of course.

I don’t think it’s impossible that we get the likes of Martinez and Casemiro back from injury, and this will stabilize the team enabling us to improve the results. If Rashford can find form and Højlund can kick on a bit, we could see a better second half of the season. Especially with no Europe to worry about. If we see improved play as well, ETH would deserve some credit.

Not saying it’s going to happen, mind you, but managers have dug themselves out of similar holes before.
 

red.knight

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I will not change my views on ETH this season. He deserves another chance next season with a proper structure above him. We cant keep sacking managers and leaving the next guy with players that might not fit their playing style, as we've seen over and over. Rangnick made it clear: Unless we're prepared to rebuild the entire squad and reshape the club's foundations, no coach can turn around the current situation at Manchester united. Last year was proof that he is the man for the job, but injuries to important players has played a huge part in our inconsistency this season. ETH needs time.
 

r3idy

Correctly predicted France to win World Cup 2018
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I was firmly in the he must stay camp but I am sat on the fence. For me to be convinced, really need to see a few things.

- the much lauded dynamic defence to attack in quick transitions, very rarely do we see this or only in fits and starts. I know Rashford is an easy target but crikey when you see Alejandro busting a nut beating his man and he's a good 10-15 yards ahead of our number 9, it immediately slows the game.

- Dominate some of the better teams. I don't mean mindless possession with 2 shots all game. We can't ask for domination all game but at least come away thinking eff me was was unlucky there. we hit the post twice, should have had a few penalties, player X was unlucky with that 1 on 1. I want to see more games like Liverpool at home last season.

This season we have seen moments of individual brilliance and even they have been fleeting (Alejandro away at Everton) In all honesty the football just has not been good enough.
 

Wing Attack Plan R

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I think he is as bad as Frank De Boer. Both came with hyped reputations after winning things in a Mickey mouse league. Both started off horribly in the PL. ETH dumped his so called philosophy and immediately resorted to hoofball to save his job. De Boer is now jobless after being fired somewhere in the Arab league. ETH will end up similarly.
This sounds like Ten Hag’s decisions were made in vacuum, and not that he lost his 1st through 4th center backs, his left back was out long term, and his midfield was decimated. Ten Had changed it up so the personnel he has available could do what he asked. Add to that Rashford suddenly going cold, Martial also out injured, and Antony playing like his controller was broken. Ten Hag is not blameless, but there were extenuating circumstances.