Bondi77
Full Member
- Joined
- Jun 28, 2019
- Messages
- 7,356
If posters stopped complaining on here the activity would be reduced by about 80%.
You replace themThats a good video. Don't see how anybody could possibly watch it and blame the manager. Its also hard to watch it and not break your screen in frustration. Absolutely abysmal effort all round, with rashford and mctominay so bad they should be dropped off the back of an amateur tacticians interpretation.
How do you fix it? How to you get fundamentally lazy players in key roles to not be lazy?
Nope. Doesnt work like that at all. You have to make the most of the players you have not just write off the now and expect to be judged in 2 years when you have 6 different players on top of the changes you've already made.I see a lot of posts on here moaning that we don't have an identity and our tactics are all over the place. I've never agreed, but I couldn't quite put it into words.
I really 'enjoyed' this video, which made it pretty simple for me; the tactics are working, our players aren't. WHAT A SURPRISE.
We've been plagued for years with:
Let's be clear, we have had some incredible, proven in almost every major league, deeply experienced managers. But we've maintained a core of players who fit the above.
- Players who don't want to play certain systems, so tick the box and let them fail.
- Players who understand the system, try, but who can't execute.
- Players who just suck.
ETH has transformed the squad more than any other manager, but right now has to rely on the same old gunk he was laboured with.
Once I see an ETH first XI, then I'll judge, but with a fit squad I just don't see half of these players getting game time under him, because he'll start to cut them out.
Sure he's dealt a bad hand. But we're not expecting grand slam either. Just something progress towards good football. We're regressing badly in this department.He's never going to get his own starting XI but lets be honest, he's been dealt a bad hand ever since he came here. Just look at the striker situation for example, there's only so much you can do as a workaround.
Ronaldo - Love the guy but old and past it. Slow reactions, can't press as much as before. There's a reason he's playing in KSA
Martial - Perma crocked injured who is never fit. Shame really as I love the guy but his body is done. He can't run anymore and can't stay fit to save his life
Weghorst - Emergency striker loan. There's a reason he was an emergency loan player, guy wasn't up to the required standard but he was fit all the time. Better than having a midfielder play there as a false 9
Rashford - Wants to play left wing as his preferred position. Cannot play pure ST as he doesn't make the necessary runs when he plays there
^ The above is why I'm excited by the Hojlund signing. Sure we've lost 2 games in a row, but at least it looks like he's slowly becoming available again after his injury.
Mate if its clearly not his strength to press with intensity, not even remotely, then he shouldn't be your star player.Rashford is a good example. Great last season playing to his strengths, now you're asking him to be a pressing attacker who spends a lot of his energy when we dont have the ball playing for the team tactic. I'm not for one second saying he shouldnt be trying harder, pressing with more intensity and effort than he has been in the video and in general. But is it a surprise that your star player of last season is struggling several games into the season being expected to do something quite different and clearly not to his strength? No. Not really.
1- Once you change your entire principles for 1 or 2 players, you'd asking for a problem. SAF might have done it once for Ronaldo, Barca for Messi etc. You don't do it for Rashford ffs.What most likely happens is 1 of 2 things :
1) The manager changes the tactics for the players we have. At least for 1 or 2 star players like Rashford. If you want a worker bee in his left side position then play him as a striker. Perhaps Hojland would be more up for it playing from the side.
2) We sell Rashford and buy a lesser player who enjoys pressing, tracking back and working hard for the team without the ball as well as with it. Now you need to get 30 goals from somewhere... Easier said than done.
The bolded part is what gives player power. He actually has to, or else he'll be out of the squad within a few seasons because his manager wants him to do that and he's not doing it. Once the club decide its the manager who needs to go (let's be honest, its cheaper) then we repeat the cycle again and again.Theres an outside chance that Rashford might eventually change as a player, buy into the hard work without the ball and the tactics. And if he does thats credit to him because he doesnt have to. But realistically changing the nature of a star player is unlikely. He could easily think he'll be better off at a top team that arent asking him to man mark CBs and yes he will get those offers.
Mate there's injuries and then there's playing Wout fecking Weghorst for 20 games because we have no one else. We were basically playing with 10 men in attack for a long period of time last season.Sure he's dealt a bad hand. But we're not expecting grand slam either. Just something progress towards good football. We're regressing badly in this department.
Injury happens. Freak result happens. But this is no injury nor freakish result. This is a team bereft of identity in what brand they want to play.
Substitute may not play as good as first XI but still i expect them to slot in and know what they're supposed to do as a team
If god forbid they're not good enough and beaten 1 on 1 then tough luck. But the whole team got beaten on tactics and gameplay
Probably should have told him that before he scored so many goals last season.Mate if its clearly not his strength to press with intensity, not even remotely, then he shouldn't be your star player.
It may not be unreasonable but it’s reasonable to ask the players he does have available to step up but they won’t hence the never ending circle of “is it the manager is it the players”Very few managers get to play with their own preferred XI. I don't think ETH should be sacked, but it's not unreasonable to ask a manager to make do with what he's got.
I would be massively shocked if that was the case.You’ll not be saying that in a few weeks I think. In a month or maybe 2, our idea of our best 11 will have changed quite a bit, especially our midfield. Wouldn’t be shocked if amrabat / mainoo were the preferred two.
There's playing Wout Werghost because he dont have an eye for better loan.Mate there's injuries and then there's playing Wout fecking Weghorst for 20 games because we have no one else. We were basically playing with 10 men in attack for a long period of time last season.
Yet he was still better than Martial!Mate there's injuries and then there's playing Wout fecking Weghorst for 20 games because we have no one else. We were basically playing with 10 men in attack for a long period of time last season.
Whose fault was that? We could've signed a forward or two for the money spent on AntonyMate there's injuries and then there's playing Wout fecking Weghorst for 20 games because we have no one else. We were basically playing with 10 men in attack for a long period of time last season.
Shaw and Varane being injured isnt exactly a rare occurence, Anthony isnt exactly a huge miss so 3 first choice players missing is bad, but its not the massive crisis you make it out to beOle didnt' have near enough the injuries Ten Hag had in these games.
It annoys me with the whole "oh I cant see the style of play" when he's got no LB, no back up LB, the emergency LB doesnt know his team mates, no RW, no backup RW, no LCB, the backup LCB also out and a striker building up to 90 minute games.
I wonder fecking why we can't see patterns of play
Thats untrue. Shaw had a good record for us last year, licha is still getting back to fitness evidently and Varane obv being out all at once is a big blow. Malacia being shaws back up just exasperated it, as Reguilon naturally needs to bed in.Shaw and Varane being injured isnt exactly a rare occurence, Anthony isnt exactly a huge miss so 3 first choice players missing is bad, but its not the massive crisis you make it out to be
Conveniently ignoring the third place finish last year.Come on. The squad isnt that bad. Ole (a manager most on here called clueless) managed back to back top 4 with this lot, and ETH has been allowed to spend 400 million on top of that. I am not saying that he should be sacked right now, but he shouldn't be untouhable either just because he did well in his last job.
Managing us is not the same as managing Ajax
Plus the ones that have been extended, like Rashford and Dalot.What is an actuall 11 from him? A whole new team?
Against Brighton 6 of the players that started came in under him. First choice or not, he signed off on them. He had the majority of his players in that team
Agree. He had enough quality on the pitch to beat both Brighton and Spurs.If not staring an entire xi of players you've hand picked was a valid excuse for failure, every manager in the league except Pep would have an excuse to fail and produce garbage football.
The only reason this argument has any credence is because this is in fact what a vast majority of managers in the PL do.
But then the criticisms/concerns I'd have over ETH this season aren't based on who he can't play, they're based on him doing some really daft things with the players he is able to pick, and in some cases chose to sign. E.g. Mount would be part of an ETH xi...in midfield...next to Fernandes. This causes me to believe that whatever the ETH XI is, needs somewhat of a rethink..
That will be consistent with fans wanting to pay whatever it takes for a player in summer and then wonder why our transfer amounts and wages are so high after window is closed.It's inconsistent to say that we are quite far away from the level of City/Arsenal and then to say at the same time that EtH needs to get results now.
The other thing is if you can't on a single occasion in over a year pick your preferred strongest XI, you have to start wondering why.Agree. He had enough quality on the pitch to beat both Brighton and Spurs.
What i cant get over, is the fact ETH would rather change the system to a 442 diamond just because Anthony is not available.
The excuses he is making too are starting to sound quite pathetic. Saying that he has never been able to put his best XI on the pitch is giving the team a ready made excuse.
Im sure he has picked his best XI many times in the past year. If he is including players from other teams, well that is just pathetic.The other thing is if you can't on a single occasion in over a year pick your preferred strongest XI, you have to start wondering why.
I'm sure we had games last season where everyone he'd ordinarily pick was fit, unless he counts players he hasn't been able to sign yet, which is exactly the same as saying "the problem is i can't pick my preferred world xi"
He hasn't lost me yet but I would say a majority of the trust I thought he built up last season he's wiped away so is more or less back at square 1.
Yeah, that's true but it takes time. For example, by the time we've replaced all that's needed, casemiro, varane, for example, will then need replacing to. The poor management of the squad for years is also stinging us.You replace them
Good postI dont think we need to see ten Hag have a perfectly fit XI every week to improve but the point is that we havent seen anything close to it at all.
Arteta has been at Arsenal long enough to have completely rejuvenated their squad. The only players he has are ones he's bought or one's hes deemed good enough to stay. Ten Hag is not there yet. He still has a number of players in his squad hes either actively tried to sell or would like to replace in the short-term.
De Zerbi arrived to a squad built via advanced analytics where they were bought to play a very specific style. He himself was recruited via the data, seen as the perfect manager to continue whats was already a well run project. United are not in the same position. We have a squad built based on a numerous re-builds, chosen based on each managers style of play, which are completely different from each other.
It would be disingenuous to compare ten Hag at United to these two clubs in the first place, but to do so in the middle of an injury crisis as deep as the one we're currently in and then criticise the manager is ridiculous.
Arsenal finished 2nd last year and did so by playing one game a week and having the lowest lineup variation of any team in the league. They lost Saliba for a few games at the end and everyones decided that single injury was sufficient explanation for why they could no longer compete.
We've dropped points in 10 games since we won the carabao cup.
80% of those were against last seasons top 8 (this seasons top 6)
80% of those were away from home
80% of those we were not able to field the crucial defensive trio of Martinez, Varane and Casemiro
Our first 6 games of this season include games against Arsenal, Spurs, Brighton and Bayern. When you're in the midst of a system overhaul (moving to the single pivot with two attacking 8's) and then have to change systems again due to losing 11 outfield players (the diamond), the last thing you need is to be playing against top quality opposition. There are probably only 4 other teams in the world that would be more difficult to face during this period.
If our biggest rivals had the injuries we have right now, they would barely be able to field an 11 let alone fill a bench. We're going to see a number of players coming back over the next couple of weeks, they'll settle in and we'll see an improvement. Lets not kill the manager for having a blip. If we're still in the bottom half come January when everyone is fit, then its a different conversation.
Shaw, historicaly speaking has had a pretty terrible injury record, so him being fit an entire season is unsual. Yes, we have injuries, especially in defense, not having a fully fit squad should not shield the manager from all critisimThats untrue. Shaw had a good record for us last year, licha is still getting back to fitness evidently and Varane obv being out all at once is a big blow. Malacia being shaws back up just exasperated it, as Reguilon naturally needs to bed in.
But aside from that we lost fred and the two signings we have to start in our midfield are both injured.
It means both cas and Eriksen need to play more minutes than what's ideal for them whilst having a makeshift defence behind. Its actually pretty massive.
Worth noting we lost our control to Arsenal when we lost licha and Martinez on top of all the other injuries. And when we lost to Brighton we were obviously without the right winger on top.
Not ignoring anything. We've had a rotten start to the season and for any other manager post-Fergie, getting CL football has been the minimum benchmark and i dont see how it should be any different for ETH.Conveniently ignoring the third place finish last year.
How's that been going for us for the last decade?Not ignoring anything. We've had a rotten start to the season and for any other manager post-Fergie, getting CL football has been the minimum benchmark and i dont see how it should be any different for ETH.
Great post!I dont think we need to see ten Hag have a perfectly fit XI every week to improve but the point is that we havent seen anything close to it at all.
Arteta has been at Arsenal long enough to have completely rejuvenated their squad. The only players he has are ones he's bought or one's hes deemed good enough to stay. Ten Hag is not there yet. He still has a number of players in his squad hes either actively tried to sell or would like to replace in the short-term.
De Zerbi arrived to a squad built via advanced analytics where they were bought to play a very specific style. He himself was recruited via the data, seen as the perfect manager to continue whats was already a well run project. United are not in the same position. We have a squad built based on a numerous re-builds, chosen based on each managers style of play, which are completely different from each other.
It would be disingenuous to compare ten Hag at United to these two clubs in the first place, but to do so in the middle of an injury crisis as deep as the one we're currently in and then criticise the manager is ridiculous.
Arsenal finished 2nd last year and did so by playing one game a week and having the lowest lineup variation of any team in the league. They lost Saliba for a few games at the end and everyones decided that single injury was sufficient explanation for why they could no longer compete.
We've dropped points in 10 games since we won the carabao cup.
80% of those were against last seasons top 8 (this seasons top 6)
80% of those were away from home
80% of those we were not able to field the crucial defensive trio of Martinez, Varane and Casemiro
Our first 6 games of this season include games against Arsenal, Spurs, Brighton and Bayern. When you're in the midst of a system overhaul (moving to the single pivot with two attacking 8's) and then have to change systems again due to losing 11 outfield players (the diamond), the last thing you need is to be playing against top quality opposition. There are probably only 4 other teams in the world that would be more difficult to face during this period.
If our biggest rivals had the injuries we have right now, they would barely be able to field an 11 let alone fill a bench. We're going to see a number of players coming back over the next couple of weeks, they'll settle in and we'll see an improvement. Lets not kill the manager for having a blip. If we're still in the bottom half come January when everyone is fit, then its a different conversation.
NoCan we complain now?
I'll allow itCan we complain now?