Capello on Italian football

Red the Bear

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This interview is a bit old(after Italy's failure to qualify ) but I found it interesting.
Here's the Interview .

Italian football has imitated Guardiola for 15 years,” Capello told Sky Sport Italia.
“There were no vertical passes or physical strength, there is no habit to making challenges. On the other hand, we should follow Jurgen Klopp’s playing style.
“The only ones doing that in Italy are Atalanta and look at their results. Vincenzo Italiano is trying something similar, same as Alexander Blessin at Genoa who is offering even something more than Klopp. The German way is the model to follow, we don’t have the technique to look at the Spanish one.

“There is a high pace in European competition and we are not accustomed to it,” the ex-coach continued.
“There are not enough young Italian players, but there is a wrong idea at its base. We are the country of the back pass to the goalkeeper.
This part may pick your interest as it's a jab at some foreign strikers, fair to say that he doesn't rate the likes of lukaku
Victor Osimhen, Romelu Lukaku and Tammy Abraham were just normal strikers abroad. They became champions in Italy. This should raise some questions.
he also added
Sometimes, I am surprised to read some stats. ‘That player made 45 passes…’ Ok, but how many were key passes? How many of those passes were useful?”
Interesting insights some of which i think applies to United as well.


I apologize in advanced if this doesn't deserve a thread, I wanted to bump an older thread but couldn't find a suitable one so I just made a new onw.
 

Rozay

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Looks like a thread for the football forum to me.
 

dinostar77

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He does make some interesting points about italian football. But in a country where Catenaccio football is the default mentality, gling for a geggenpress: high block and high press seems very unitalian to me.

I think you would need to see a coach such as klopp in serie A be successful for a number of years with his philosophy to maybe start to change a dogma that has been instilled in Italian football since the legendary inter side of helenio herrera of the 1960s.
 

flappyjay

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He is preaching the truth about the strikers. Average strikers look world class in that league. Abraham, Lukaku, icardi, immobile, Zapata and Muriel.
 

devilish

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He does make some interesting points about italian football. But in a country where Catenaccio football is the default mentality, gling for a geggenpress: high block and high press seems very unitalian to me.

I think you would need to see a coach such as klopp in serie A be successful for a number of years with his philosophy to maybe start to change a dogma that has been instilled in Italian football since the legendary inter side of helenio herrera of the 1960s.
Actually Rangnick's geggenpress was inspired by Sacchi's Milan among others.
 

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There were no vertical passes or physical strength
Pep's players have always been one of strongest players in the league. The amount of dirty fouling they do, and how capable of holding the ball with player on their back his players were, was always impressive.
 

giorno

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He does make some interesting points about italian football. But in a country where Catenaccio football is the default mentality, gling for a geggenpress: high block and high press seems very unitalian to me.

I think you would need to see a coach such as klopp in serie A be successful for a number of years with his philosophy to maybe start to change a dogma that has been instilled in Italian football since the legendary inter side of helenio herrera of the 1960s.
You mean, like the team that just won the league?
 

Adam-Utd

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think it’s definitely fair to say Seria A is a league where contact isn’t usually allowed. The moment any force is used they're diving and rolling.

This has turned into defenders being good positionally/tactically, but also really struggle up against strikers with any physical threat.

I remember thinking when with Lukaku at Inter he genuinely looked giant up against most centrebacks, he really bullied them. In England he just looks like another big guy.
 

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He does make some interesting points about italian football. But in a country where Catenaccio football is the default mentality, gling for a geggenpress: high block and high press seems very unitalian to me.

I think you would need to see a coach such as klopp in serie A be successful for a number of years with his philosophy to maybe start to change a dogma that has been instilled in Italian football since the legendary inter side of helenio herrera of the 1960s.
Isn't Serie A already he highest scoring league among the top 5?

I haven't watched enough Italian football to formulate a clear opinion, but looking at the strikers, it does seem indeed a bit curious who is being how successful. And I'm not necessarily talking about Immobile here, because he may just have been homesick abroad. For me it's the ancient strikers like Ibrahimovic, Quagliarella and maybe Dzeko having (had) such success that stand out.
On the other hand Tammy Abraham's Npg/90 ratio isn't even that exceptional in Italy and it was actually better while he was still playing for Chelsea, though perhap a bit inflated by his depth-player status.
 

dinostar77

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Isn't Serie A already he highest scoring league among the top 5?

I haven't watched enough Italian football to formulate a clear opinion, but looking at the strikers, it does seem indeed a bit curious who is being how successful. And I'm not necessarily talking about Immobile here, because he may just have been homesick abroad. For me it's the ancient strikers like Ibrahimovic, Quagliarella and maybe Dzeko having (had) such success that stand out.
On the other hand Tammy Abraham's Npg/90 ratio isn't even that exceptional in Italy and it was actually better while he was still playing for Chelsea, though perhap a bit inflated by his depth-player status.
I think capello alluded to that. The quality of serie A isn't where it needs to be. This is shown by the success of lukaku, abraham, aincient ibra etc.
 

dinostar77

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Actually Rangnick's geggenpress was inspired by Sacchi's Milan among others.
Yes it was, but apart fron the lippi (first period) at juventus where they pressed like sacchi milan. Serie A seems to have abandoned that approach of the high press. I will caveat that statement with the fact i dont have BT sports so dont see as much Serie A footy as i used to.
 

dinostar77

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He is preaching the truth about the strikers. Average strikers look world class in that league. Abraham, Lukaku, icardi, immobile, Zapata and Muriel.
Aren't a few PL clubs looking at the nigerian Napoli striker and Napoli want silly money for him (as usual for napoli). From Capello's statement id be wary of spending too much on a striker from serie A, unless he was showin the same goal scoring prowess in european and international competitions.
 

Champ

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I don't think he's having a dig about the quality of those strikers, moreso the lack of physicality in the defending and league as a whole.

That would go alongside the other points he raised such as There were no vertical passes or physical strength, there is no habit to making challenges.

 

ScholesyTheWise

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Showing my ignorance as I may well be, could someone please enlighten me re: "Pep's teams don't play vertical passes"?

I don't watch entire matches of Pep's teams as I find them somewhat boring (effective as hell obviously but it's a different discussion), but I do know how his teams play as I do watch footie regularly... While his teams play far less risky passes than any other team that comes to mind, surely you can't get to the opponent's box only passing sideways?

Has Pep himself ever mentioned such a 'rule'? Does he only allow his players to pass vertically in the final third of the pitch or something similar?
Or maybe I'm just confusing forward passing with vertical passing, as in Pep doesn't allow his players to pass at a 180-degree angle (sounds absurd)?

I realize it's a tad pedantic on my part but I was reading Capello's words and was thinking "wtf does that mean".
 
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Sweet Square

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Tbf Inter did beat Liverpool at Anfield, Roma have won more European cups this season than any other English team and the Milan teams have broken the dominance of Juventus. Overall the level isn’t as high as the premier league but Italian football this season has been far more enjoyable to watch.

So I’m not sure theres a desperate need to change things.
 

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Bad punditry in bad times always needs two bandwagons in order to divide and entertain the plebs: enter Sacchi and his attaaaaack!! vs Capello and his defeeeend!! Apart of the parochial ways we manage FIGC and Serie A, the reality is almost all the Italian kids have been subjected to pattern-first / movement-first coaching (parroting Sacchi) since a very young age, instead of technique-first / awareness-first training (parroting Capello)… that’s why it is twenty years we cannot produce any real generational talent any more.
 

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The problem is, even Klopp is imitating Guardiola. The football he called heavy metal, he doesn't play that anymore. I think the change came about in his third year with Liverpool where they focused more on control instead of his previous "get the ball forward as fast as possible" approach. He is still favoring a more vertical approach than Guardiola, doesn't mean he hasn't learned a thing or two from Pep, which tbh is normal, pretty much every successful manager has some sort of influence on their peers.
 

abundance

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You mean, like the team that just won the league?
Milan ain't on that high-line, high-press, gegen-spamming opponent's early possession style
At least not by european standards which is what is debated here.

Especially towards the end of the season, they've been playing a conservative low block on two tight lines, relying mostly on winning contested second balls in their own half to ignite a straight counter with some of their fast, pretty decent with the ball, players.

Those are key to their success, with Pioli wisely organizing a solid and simple game plan around them.

Speed + smart runs + athletic + decent 1vs1 triumphs in Serie A precisely because the coreographed, laidback positional play that most italian team resort to isn't well equipped to deal with being disorganized and left 1 on 1 in space.

Which is what it was trying to avoid in the first place, only to fail when confronted with superior quickness and footballing ability.

Italian footie is trying hard to adapt to modern football but so far we went from masters of the smart ass tactics to champions of the sad ass tactics.
 

abundance

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Oh and btw, enough for this "catenaccio is the default mentality of italian football"
we are way past that at this point

both in trying different things, and in forgetting most of the talent skillset for that.

If you want to see what classic '90-'00 italian Serie A vintage, conservative post-sacchian mindset would look like in contemporary football, I think the best example at high level is Simeone's Atletico de Madrid.
 

giorno

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Milan ain't on that high-line, high-press, gegen-spamming opponent's early possession style
At least not by european standards which is what is debated here.
They don't do it in quite as extreme a fashion as some german teamd but yeah, they are very much a high-line, high press side. Like all of Pioli's teams

Especially towards the end of the season, they've been playing a conservative low block on two tight lines, relying mostly on winning contested second balls in their own half to ignite a straight counter with some of their fast, pretty decent with the ball, players.
They did get a bit less intense and conservative but mostly it was down to fatigue imo. They still got most of their success off the high press, and they still liked to keep a high defensive line(especially so, now that they had 2 really quick CBs)

Speed + smart runs + athletic + decent 1vs1 triumphs in Serie A precisely because the coreographed, laidback positional play that most italian team resort to isn't well equipped to deal with being disorganized and left 1 on 1 in space.
Yep. Also why big lads up top tend to do well - italian defenders generally aren't used to 1vs1 duels

Which is what it was trying to avoid in the first place, only to fail when confronted with superior quickness and footballing ability.
Yep.

Italian footie is trying hard to adapt to modern football but so far we went from masters of the smart ass tactics to champions of the sad ass tactics.
The biggest problem with italian football is that we saw Sacchi and drew entirely the wrong conclusions. It's a sad state of affairs where Sacchi's successors are ze germans instead of us...
 

abundance

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Bad punditry in bad times always needs two bandwagons in order to divide and entertain the plebs: enter Sacchi and his attaaaaack!! vs Capello and his defeeeend!! Apart of the parochial ways we manage FIGC and Serie A, the reality is almost all the Italian kids have been subjected to pattern-first / movement-first coaching (parroting Sacchi) since a very young age, instead of technique-first / awareness-first training (parroting Capello)… that’s why it is twenty years we cannot produce any real generational talent any more.
Yep that is wholesome spot-on


Re. the crisis of italian home-grown talent...

we also have a vocational down (videogames+socials+arts+culture activities competing with "just grab a ball and go out in the court yard" for the spare time of kids)
and a ethnic divide (bad integration of migrants means very few of their ball-playing kids are given a chance)

that we deal worse with than most of the big european footballing nations.

That is down to bad youth infrastructure managed by the FIGC.
(and the dismal state of the lower pro and semi pro leagues)
 

abundance

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They don't do it in quite as extreme a fashion as some german teamd but yeah, they are very much a high-line, high press side. Like all of Pioli's teams
I'm not so sure, we also had Pioli.
To me, he seems to like fast CBs that can do a high line and run back fast, and a middle wall.
Pressing, even when it's high, is not very organized and it's committing two men tops most of the times.
It's more of a device to invite playing in the hole in the middle, where the wall awaits.
 

giorno

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I'm not so sure, we also had Pioli.
To me, he seems to like fast CBs that can do a high line and run back fast, and a middle wall.
Pressing, even when it's high, is not very organized and it's committing two men tops most of the times.
It's more of a device to invite playing in the hole in the middle, where the wall awaits.
Milan had a PPDA(which is one of the best tools available to measure pressing) of 8.86, 4th in the league behind the man-marking monstrosities and right up there with Liverpool, City and Chelsea...
 

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The biggest problem with italian football is that we saw Sacchi and drew entirely the wrong conclusions. It's a sad state of affairs where Sacchi's successors are ze germans instead of us...
You guys could always hire Löw, he's just waiting for a new job opportunity.
 

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Showing my ignorance as I may well be, could someone please enlighten me re: "Pep's teams don't play vertical passes"?

I don't watch entire matches of Pep's teams as I find them somewhat boring (effective as hell obviously but it's a different discussion), but I do know how his teams play as I do watch footie regularly... While his teams play far less risky passes than any other team that comes to mind, surely you can't get to the opponent's box only passing sideways?

Has Pep himself ever mentioned such a 'rule'? Does he only allow his players to pass vertically in the final third of the pitch or something similar?
Or maybe I'm just confusing forward passing with vertical passing, as in Pep doesn't allow his players to pass at a 180-degree angle (sounds absurd)?

I realize it's a tad pedantic on my part but I was reading Capello's words and was thinking "wtf does that mean".
Vertical passing means quick balls over the top and such, obviously all teams do it to some extent, but City definitely don't do it as much as other teams.
 

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capello says that but it was just a short while ago that italy shared the european cup with england.
 

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months ago italian football was BACK, and after a disastrous 5 games which saw them miss the WC, they're in crisis.

italians are the masters of drama.

Serie A is fine. better than it has been in ages. Literally ages. It doesnt have EPL money, but it's getting better as a whole, esp at the top. Clubs like Milan are modernizing year after year, Gazidis himself said we have to emulate the english style more.

But it can't happen overnight, especially without the same funding. So they have to be creative and work slower.
 
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devilish

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Yes it was, but apart fron the lippi (first period) at juventus where they pressed like sacchi milan. Serie A seems to have abandoned that approach of the high press. I will caveat that statement with the fact i dont have BT sports so dont see as much Serie A footy as i used to.
To better grasp Italian football one have to understand the culture and what is plaguing Italian football as a whole. Lets start from the former. Italian football is quite known for being kneejerk to the ridiculous level. There's also a sense of arrogance by the old heads who just love shitting on the younger managers ( Sacchi vs Allegri is a classic example). When they win they are perfect and their manager is a football genius. When they are not winning they are all shit. Regarding the latter the Serie A had been plagued with lack of funds mainly (but not solely) due to the lack of infrastructure needed to generate football. For example most Italian clubs lack a stadium of their own. One of the very few who have (ex Juventus) has a stadium of around 41k which is smaller to St James's park, Villa Park and Spurs stadium. FFP rules are quite tough in Italy as well which often forces clubs to sell players. That had contributed greatly in lowering the level of football. Not to forget that the Serie A lack the sugar daddies the EPL and the French league have.

Regarding Serie A managers, I find Capello's argument a bit simplistic. That's because there are a number of styles used. On one hand there's the typical defensive style used by the likes of Allegri. At the other side of the spectrum there's managers like Sarri and Gasparini who tend to rely on an exciting style of football. Most use a rather pragmatic approach were they try to maximise on the little quality they have. Sometimes they manage to do wonders with it. For example Mancini was able to win the Euros with an average side. That's more then Capello had done when he crashed with a much more talented England.

To conclude let me put forward an Ibra's quote regarding Capello

'When Capello gets angry, hardly anyone dares to look him in the eye, and if he gives you an opportunity and you don't take it, you might as well be selling hot dogs outside the stadium, basically. You don't go to Capello with your problems. Capello isn't your mate. [...] After the very first training session, all the others in the team had gone in to shower, and I was completely exhausted. I would have gladly called it a day as well. But a goalie from the youth team came over from the touchline, and I twigged what was going on. Italo was going to feed me balls – bam, bam! They came at me from all angles. There were crosses, passes, he chucked the ball, he gave me wall passes, and I shot at goal, one shot after another, and I was never allowed to leave the box, the penalty area. That was my area, he said. That's where I was supposed to be and shoot, shoot, and there was no chance of taking a break or taking it easy. The pace was relentless. [...] "I'm gonna knock Ajax out of your body," he [Capello] said. "I don't need that Dutch style. One, two, one, two, play the wall, play nice and technical. Dribble through the whole team. I can get by without that. I need goals. You understand? I need to get that Italian mindset into you. You've got to get that killer instinct." [...] Under Capello, I was transformed. His toughness was infectious, and I became less of an artiste and more of a bruiser who wanted to win at any price.'
 
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dinostar77

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To better grasp Italian football one have to understand the culture and what is plaguing Italian football as a whole. Lets start from the former. Italian football is quite known for being kneejerk to the ridiculous level. There's also a sense of arrogance by the old heads who just love shitting on the younger managers ( Sacchi vs Allegri is a classic example). When they win they are perfect and their manager is a football genius. When they are not winning they are all shit. Regarding the latter the Serie A had been plagued with lack of funds mainly (but not solely) due to the lack of infrastructure needed to generate football. For example most Italian clubs lack a stadium of their own. One of the very few who have (ex Juventus) has a stadium of around 41k which is smaller to St James's park, Villa Park and Spurs stadium. FFP rules are quite tough in Italy as well which often forces clubs to sell players. That had contributed greatly in lowering the level of football. Not to forget that the Serie A lack the sugar daddies the EPL and the French league have.

Regarding Serie A managers, I find Capello's argument a bit simplistic. That's because there are a number of styles used. On one hand there's the typical defensive style used by the likes of Allegri. At the other side of the spectrum there's managers like Sarri and Gasparini who tend to rely on an exciting style of football. Most use a rather pragmatic approach were they try to maximise on the little quality they have. Sometimes they manage to do wonders with it. For example Mancini was able to win the Euros with an average side. That's more then Capello had done when he crashed with a much more talented England.

To conclude let me put forward an Ibra's quote regarding Capello

'When Capello gets angry, hardly anyone dares to look him in the eye, and if he gives you an opportunity and you don't take it, you might as well be selling hot dogs outside the stadium, basically. You don't go to Capello with your problems. Capello isn't your mate. [...] After the very first training session, all the others in the team had gone in to shower, and I was completely exhausted. I would have gladly called it a day as well. But a goalie from the youth team came over from the touchline, and I twigged what was going on. Italo was going to feed me balls – bam, bam! They came at me from all angles. There were crosses, passes, he chucked the ball, he gave me wall passes, and I shot at goal, one shot after another, and I was never allowed to leave the box, the penalty area. That was my area, he said. That's where I was supposed to be and shoot, shoot, and there was no chance of taking a break or taking it easy. The pace was relentless. [...] "I'm gonna knock Ajax out of your body," he [Capello] said. "I don't need that Dutch style. One, two, one, two, play the wall, play nice and technical. Dribble through the whole team. I can get by without that. I need goals. You understand? I need to get that Italian mindset into you. You've got to get that killer instinct." [...] Under Capello, I was transformed. His toughness was infectious, and I became less of an artiste and more of a bruiser who wanted to win at any price.'
Thanks.fpr the post, interesting perspective on Capello.
 

do.ob

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months ago italian football was BACK, and after a disastrous 5 games which saw them miss the WC, they're in crisis.

italians are the masters of drama.

Serie A is fine. better than it has been in ages. Literally ages. It doesnt have EPL money, but it's getting better as a whole, esp at the top. Clubs like Milan are modernizing year after year, Gazidis himself said we have to emulate the english style more.

But it can't happen overnight, especially without the same funding. So they have to be creative and work slower.
What does "emulating the English style" mean in this context?
 

abundance

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What does "emulating the English style" mean in this context?
I don't know but I guess being fukin finally able to package a good show and sell it well, for once.

Nice stadium, good crowds, great atmosphere, cool televised images... a well-run league bringing in decent tv money and sponsor, decent merchandising, stuff like that.

We are like twenty years late to all this with respect to the PL and the whole british football pyramid.

At the end of last millennium we used to have top notch quality on the pitch but we lacked the mindset and infrastructure to leverage that to create a self-sustaining business around the top league.

Now it's much harder but we gotta learn or be condemned to play in UCL/EL with a severe money handicap.
 

Murder on Zidane's Floor

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This interview is a bit old(after Italy's failure to qualify ) but I found it interesting.
Here's the Interview .



This part may pick your interest as it's a jab at some foreign strikers, fair to say that he doesn't rate the likes of lukaku

he also added

Interesting insights some of which i think applies to United as well.


I apologize in advanced if this doesn't deserve a thread, I wanted to bump an older thread but couldn't find a suitable one so I just made a new onw.
Like this thinking. Much prefer pragmatic, fast football up the pitch to sideways passing.
 

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I don't know but I guess being fukin finally able to package a good show and sell it well, for once.

Nice stadium, good crowds, great atmosphere, cool televised images... a well-run league bringing in decent tv money and sponsor, decent merchandising, stuff like that.

We are like twenty years late to all this with respect to the PL and the whole british football pyramid.

At the end of last millennium we used to have top notch quality on the pitch but we lacked the mindset and infrastructure to leverage that to create a self-sustaining business around the top league.

Now it's much harder but we gotta learn or be condemned to play in UCL/EL with a severe money handicap.
I don't know why there are so many financial troubles. Italian league has the third most money of the top 5 leagues (TV deal), and it is almost tied with spain for the second place. Italian teams should be doing reasonably well financially.
 

didz

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Showing my ignorance as I may well be, could someone please enlighten me re: "Pep's teams don't play vertical passes"?

I don't watch entire matches of Pep's teams as I find them somewhat boring (effective as hell obviously but it's a different discussion), but I do know how his teams play as I do watch footie regularly... While his teams play far less risky passes than any other team that comes to mind, surely you can't get to the opponent's box only passing sideways?

Has Pep himself ever mentioned such a 'rule'? Does he only allow his players to pass vertically in the final third of the pitch or something similar?
Or maybe I'm just confusing forward passing with vertical passing, as in Pep doesn't allow his players to pass at a 180-degree angle (sounds absurd)?

I realize it's a tad pedantic on my part but I was reading Capello's words and was thinking "wtf does that mean".
People often use "vertical " as another way of saying "direct."

Generally, a pass is vertical if it's roughly parallel to the touchline, horizontal if it's roughly parallel to the goal line and diagonal if it's neither of the former two.

City - most positional play possession teams really - generally stagger their lines to make diagonal passes happen more naturally to advance up the pitch. You can see that in the triangles and rondos they create. Diagonal passes also go really well with vertical runners. City's half-space crosses and cut backs are both example of that kind of play in the final third.

Vertical passes don't have to be played over everyone's head, but when used in build-up it's usually with a view to breaking one or more opposition lines in a single play.

Off the top of my head, Leipzig under Nagelsmann and Inter under Conte I seem to remember heavily relying on low driven passes from centre halves into a forward, who would then lay it off for an onrushing midfielder/wingback.

Every team uses every pass sometimes, but obviously some just lean more heavily on a particular type - usually dependant on their underlying structure and how individual players prefer to receive.

Just realised how much I've waffled so TLDR: diagonal passes exist!
 

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months ago italian football was BACK, and after a disastrous 5 games which saw them miss the WC, they're in crisis.

italians are the masters of drama.

Serie A is fine. better than it has been in ages. Literally ages. It doesnt have EPL money, but it's getting better as a whole, esp at the top. Clubs like Milan are modernizing year after year, Gazidis himself said we have to emulate the english style more.

But it can't happen overnight, especially without the same funding. So they have to be creative and work slower.
Fair point, I would say the darkest era of Seire A was during 2013-2018. I consider that era of Serie A as “the worst era in 35 years”.
Right now, I think they are walking in the right way, a lot of things have been developed like tactics, style or even marketing( aka YouTube). It needs a time but I believe that they will probably reach better levels in a few years.
 
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