Cardiac issues in footballers

[Pogue Mahone]

Can’t find a thread about this. Feel free to delete if one exists.

Lots of noise about a possible increase in cardiac events amongst footballers over the last 12 months or so. Lindelof a potential latest “victim”. With covid or vaccines being blamed (depending on which side of this latest culture war you sit)

This tweet is relevant/interesting.

Tweet

— Twitter API (@user) date

 

[sullydnl]

There was also this article in the Athletic last month.

Regarding the Lindelof incident in particular, I think this quote from Professor Sharma (the chairman of the Football Association’s expert cardiac committee) is relevant:

"Footballers are much more in tune with their cardiac health than they ever were. They have watched the Muamba episode, the Foe episode and the Eriksen episode and many of these players are concerned something like this could happen to them. Many of them have witnessed these cardiac arrests. Players are much more likely now to complain of a cardiac problem than ever before. Aguero, for example. He didn’t have a cardiac arrest but he clearly had a cardiac symptom that caused him to stop playing instead of thinking, ‘Gosh, I don’t know what that is, I will just carry on and see if it goes."

Without this increased awareness, would Lindelof have even reacted the way he did on pitch? Those examples certainly seem to be on the players' minds, with De Gea citing them after the game as well:

When you see players like that feeling a bit... I don’t know what was going on, but we’ve seen already with Christian Eriksen, sometimes it’s a bit difficult to see your player acting like this so sometimes it’s better to change.....We saw Eriksen and Aguero. Its difficult to see a player like this. I hope he is completely fine. It. doesn't matter the game, or football. Its life, we have to be safe.

Sharma also points to the fact that it's much easier to come across these stories when they happen in other countries than it was years ago too. And you'd imagine the heightened topicicality in light of the extremely high-profile Eriksen incident and the ongoing Covid/vaccination arguments sees those stories gain far more traction than they did previously, which feeds into the impression that there's been a sudden spike in incidents.

 

[André Dominguez]

Not really anything new tbh. Every season we see a few players retiring from heart conditions, this time it's only getting a big spotlight because it happened to players who are more mediatic.

 

[Ramshock]

The constant high press game doesn't help players. If you played for Klopp for instance for 10 years you would be worn out

 

[fergieisold]

Good thread - be nice to get some proper information on what is going on and that (hopefully) it's nothing unusual.

 

[bosnian_red]

I'd sooner point to the fecked up schedule that footballers have had to contend with since the covid break. It's been relentless with no signs of slowing down.

 

[Utd heap]

I thought the Internet was clear it was the vax pushed by latte drinking Corbynistas in China?

 

[Dancfc]

I'd sooner point to the fecked up schedule that footballers have had to contend with since the covid break. It's been relentless with no signs of slowing down.

If football manager has the schedule right for next season it's set to be the most ridiculous yet.

If you get to the semis of both the FA Cup and UCL you're looking at no midweek off from Christmas onwards.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

I'm not sure it has to do with packed schedule. Yes it could be the case of course, but it still needs to be further researched and some stats are needed to back the claims up. Erikson for example was well rested in the months prior to his collapse.

Lindelof wasn't only incident over the weekend, it also happened to Piotr Zielinski of Napoli, who panickly gesticulated that he had trouble breathing after which he was substituted.

While I guess cardiac issues such as really troubling moments experienced by likes of Eriksen are not happening any more often than before, I don't recall this Aguero, Lindelof, Zielinski phenomena happening that often in earlier years. It does seem like something completely new and could be some sort of post COVID symptom.

Perhaps it wouldn't be that rare in general population too if it was exposed to amount of physical effort elite sports person is exposed to.

 

[Ixion]

If there was something sinister here I don't see why this would be limited to footballers. The Olympics just happened, there are Marathons, Tennis players play grueling 3-4 hour matches, Basketball seasons are running, Rugby, you have thousands of people that do Parkruns every week etc. I suspect it's just more attention to the issue now.

 

[izzydiggler]

Who knows and without any research or evidence, I don’t think the human body has evolved to a point where such intense levels of sustained ‘punishment’ are without cost. Perhaps improvements in sports science etc come at the cost of athletes pushed to silly levels, causing the body to fail earlier.

Probably complete bollocks but the thought occurs.

 

[cyberman]

It’s the schedule over the last two years. It’s inhumane

 

[acnumber9]

Doping catching up with them?

 

[Amar__]

Rangick said that Lindelof was in collision with someone prior to that, but people will keep mentioning corona virus and antiwaxxers will say it's the vaccines.

Doping catching up with them?

Yeah, but it's easier to blame it on vaccine and covid, you can blame anything on that these days.

 

[Red the Bear]

Could it have something to do with peds?

I try to be positive but im pretty sure every one in that level of game is hooked on it

Maybe the latest batch is defective?

 

[Bosnian_fan]

How would a massive peds use be a more plausible explanation than a possible symptom of post covid? If anything, both are equally far-fetched.

 

[Red the Bear]

Rangick said that Lindelof was in collision with someone prior to that, but people will keep mentioning corona virus and antiwaxxers will say it's the vaccines.



Yeah, but it's easier to blame it on vaccine and covid, you can blame anything on that these days.

Its not that simple im vaxed (though had the covid prior it was very light for me ) and so are most of my family members there are definitely side effects to it

Now weather its related or not is another matter

 

[Adam-Utd]

How would a massive peds use be a more plausible explanation than a possible symptom of post covid? If anything, both are equally far-fetched.

Is Lindelof even vaccinated? was Eriksen?

 

[Bosnian_fan]

Is Lindelof even vaccinated? was Eriksen?

I'm not antivaxxer, I didn't say it was symptom of vaccines. And no, I don't know if Lindelof is vaccinated. Eriksen wasn't at time of his cardiac arrest.

 

[Someone]

Hard to have an opinion on this without proper research. In general it feels that footballers these days have to work harder on the pitch than say 20 years ago. The standards are much higher for lower levels as well.

 

[Adam-Utd]

I'm not antivaxxer, I didn't say it was symptom of vaccines. And no, I don't know if Lindelof is vaccinated. Eriksen wasn't at time of his cardiac arrest.

For your previous question
https://www.cardiosmart.org/news/20...s, researchers,heart function than past users.

 

[Withnail]

How would a massive peds use be a more plausible explanation than a possible symptom of post covid? If anything, both are equally far-fetched.

You think rampant PED use in elite professional sports is far fetched?

 

[Gandalf]

Is Lindelof even vaccinated? was Eriksen?

Not sure about Eriksen but Lindelof is on the record as saying he had been vaccinated. In Eriksen's case though his vaccination status is irrelevant as the diagnosis showed it was a congenital defect that he had from birth and could have struck at any time as was the case with Muamba, Blind and others in pre covid times. Many heart problems just do not show up until an attack happens so trying to create a link with COVID and vaccines is problematic to say the least. The best indication is the one from the comments in the OP which show no demonstrable increase in these incidents post COVID, just random that a couple of high profile incidents have happened lately and so now it is suddenly very newsworthy.

 

[Adam-Utd]

Not sure about Eriksen but Lindelof is on the record as saying he had been vaccinated. In Eriksen's case though his vaccination status is irrelevant as the diagnosis showed it was a congenital defect that he had from birth and could have struck at any time as was the case with Muamba, Blind and others in pre covid times. Many heart problems just do not show up until an attack happens so trying to create a link with COVID and vaccines is problematic to say the least. The best indication is the one from the comments in the OP which show no demonstrable increase in these incidents post COVID, just random that a couple of high profile incidents have happened lately and so now it is suddenly very newsworthy.

I think people are putting the report of heart inflamation and sudden cardiac arrest together as if they must be linked.

 

[Withnail]

I'm not sure it has to do with packed schedule. Yes it could be the case of course, but it still needs to be further researched and some stats are needed to back the claims up. Erikson for example was well rested in the months prior to his collapse.

Lindelof wasn't only incident over the weekend, it also happened to Piotr Zielinski of Napoli, who panickly gesticulated that he had trouble breathing after which he was substituted.

While I guess cardiac issues such as really troubling moments experienced by likes of Eriksen are not happening any more often than before, I don't recall this Aguero, Lindelof, Zielinski phenomena happening that often in earlier years. It does seem like something completely new and could be some sort of post COVID symptom.

Perhaps it wouldn't be that rare in general population too if it was exposed to amount of physical effort elite sports person is exposed to.

Lindelof wasn't a cardiac issue and Zielinski is reported as breathing issues for now so I wouldn't use either of those to draw conclusion about a potential increase in cardiac issues.

 

[Hughes35]

Doping catching up with them?

I think this is most likely TBH. It's well known that Steriods and PEDS are linked to heart problems. The heart can't cope with the excess pressure.

 

[groovyalbert]

It’s the schedule over the last two years. It’s inhumane

Came here to post the same. There has been an insane amount of football squeezed into the last 18 months.

 

[Jippy]

Not sure about Eriksen but Lindelof is on the record as saying he had been vaccinated. In Eriksen's case though his vaccination status is irrelevant as the diagnosis showed it was a congenital defect that he had from birth and could have struck at any time as was the case with Muamba, Blind and others in pre covid times. Many heart problems just do not show up until an attack happens so trying to create a link with COVID and vaccines is problematic to say the least. The best indication is the one from the comments in the OP which show no demonstrable increase in these incidents post COVID, just random that a couple of high profile incidents have happened lately and so now it is suddenly very newsworthy.

The weirder thing in all this for me is that none of these things are picked up in medicals by the clubs. That probably just reflects my lack of knowledge about these heart conditions and how hard they are to spot though.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

For your previous question
https://www.cardiosmart.org/news/2017/7/anabolic-steroids-increase-risk-for-heart-disease-in-young-and-middleaged-men#:~:text=After analyzing test results, researchers,heart function than past users.

That is common knowledge and does not really answer my question. The question actually is how would something like that be happening on a mass scale without being detected.

You think rampant PED use in elite professional sports is far fetched?

I can't speak for all sports and all countries, but even here in Bosnia, they get caught really quickly. I'm sure in developed countries consistent doping is even more difficult to hide. Unless you are Russia of course.

 

[Withnail]

That is common knowledge and does not really answer my question. The question actually is how would something like that be happening on a mass scale without being detected.

I can't speak for all sports and all countries, but even here in Bosnia, they get caught really quickly. I'm sure in developed countries consistent doping is even more difficult to hide. Unless you are Russia of course.

With respect we can't know how many are getting away with it, regardless of the poor saps getting caught.

Lance Armstrong etc got away with for years as they were always one step ahead of the testers and taking stuff they weren't testing for. He never officially failed a drugs test after all.

 

[Adam-Utd]

That is common knowledge and does not really answer my question. The question actually is how would something like that be happening on a mass scale without being detected.

I can't speak for all sports and all countries, but even here in Bosnia, they get caught really quickly. I'm sure in developed countries consistent doping is even more difficult to hide. Unless you are Russia of course.

Cover ups IMO.

Look at the links with Pep, the barca team and the doctor that got caught for PED usage. Nobody can convince me that it didn't happen in football. If something like that was rampant in Cycling, it 100% was in football too.

 

[Bosnian_fan]

Well, of course some will get away with it. But Lance had a team of people working for him, in a sport which is/was so filthy (not sure what it's like now). I'm not sure average football player can ever be as protected, if they are doing it on their own, unless there is an institution behind them.

That said, I'm not saying there is no doping in sports, of course there is. And probably lot more than we are aware of. I'm just saying that it wouldn't explain what I would call a perceived sudden increase of respiratory/cardiac problems in sport. They would have been happening even before, if that was the case.

Cover ups IMO.

Look at the links with Pep, the barca team and the doctor that got caught for PED usage. Nobody can convince me that it didn't happen in football. If something like that was rampant in Cycling, it 100% was in football too.

You could be right of course. There was also Juve doctor back in late nineties/early 2000s, Riccardo Agriccola or something like that, who apparently doped their best ever squad. And as far as I know, it got covered up, even though it was scandalous when it first came to light.

 

[SplitzMagic]

I wonder if they're fully vaccinated.

Nobody actually knows the mid/longer term side effects of these Vaccines so there's that.

Plenty players in the past year with the similar breathing difficulties.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

I wonder if they're fully vaccinated.

Nobody actually knows the mid/longer term side effects of these Vaccines so there's that.

Plenty players in the past year with the similar breathing difficulties.

It's like you didn't even read the OP.

 

[Red4Life_#7]

If there was something sinister here I don't see why this would be limited to footballers. The Olympics just happened, there are Marathons, Tennis players play grueling 3-4 hour matches, Basketball seasons are running, Rugby, you have thousands of people that do Parkruns every week etc. I suspect it's just more attention to the issue now.

All sports...

 

[SplitzMagic]

It's like you didn't even read the OP.

Yes and I said I wonder if they are fully vaccinated.

I didn't say the vaccine IS the reason. I'm trying to understand if there is a pattern here.

 

[jojojo]

The weirder thing in all this for me is that none of these things are picked up in medicals by the clubs. That probably just reflects my lack of knowledge about these heart conditions and how hard they are to spot though.

The club medicals do pick up a lot, but mostly these days in the younger players before they reach the first team. They do still do routine ECGs etc on all pros though and follow up with more detailed examinations when they see abnormalities.

Unfortunately, and this is where it gets tricky, no one quite knows which of the abnormalities really matter when it comes to sudden cardiac death in particular. Spain went through a massive review of years medical reports for professional and amateur players and couldn't tell. They ended up concluding that it was more important to have resuscitation equipment near to all sites (amateur ones as well as pro) and having at least a couple of people at every club trained in how to use it. It might sound like a copout but it has helped save lives. That was a few years ago though but I've not heard of much progress elsewhere. FIFA were supposed to be investigating and advising, but I haven't seen many conclusions from them.

 

[Dr. Dwayne]

Yes and I said I wonder if they are fully vaccinated.

I didn't say the vaccine IS the reason. I'm trying to understand if there is a pattern here.

There isn't (at least not one related to covid or the vaccines) and the tweet in the OP clearly explains that.

 

[crossy1686]

Yes and I said I wonder if they are fully vaccinated.

I didn't say the vaccine IS the reason. I'm trying to understand if there is a pattern here.

It's incredibly irresponsible to suggest the vaccine is the reason for the cardiac issues in athlete's, for sure it cannot be ruled out as a contributing factor until studies prove so, but if it was causing healthy people who exercised a lot to have heart attacks they would have spotted that huge red flag.

It's most likely a combination of many things; data science crunching numbers and showing players and coaches area's of their game they can get 'more out of', condensed seasons with hardly any rest in between competitions, a pandemic virus that causes lung damage, supplements (possible doping) they've been taking most of their lives and don't even know about, more stress and anxiety about performance thanks to social media. The fact of the matter is, thanks to sports science, athlete's are now fitter than they've ever been and train harder and longer than ever before, you have to wonder if that kind of sustained intensity wear's on the body like it would anything else.

You've also got to be aware of the current climate. Elder generations always talk about how things were better or safer back in their day, the reality is it really wasn't, they just didn't have the tech to know exactly how bad things were, like we do today.

 

[Jippy]

The club medicals do pick up a lot, but mostly these days in the younger players before they reach the first team. They do still do routine ECGs etc on all pros though and follow up with more detailed examinations when they see abnormalities.

Unfortunately, and this is where it gets tricky, no one quite knows which of the abnormalities really matter when it comes to sudden cardiac death in particular. Spain went through a massive review of years medical reports for professional and amateur players and couldn't tell. They ended up concluding that it was more important to have resuscitation equipment near to all sites (amateur ones as well as pro) and having at least a couple of people at every club trained in how to use it. It might sound like a copout but it has helped save lives. That was a few years ago though but I've not heard of much progress elsewhere. FIFA were supposed to be investigating and advising, but I haven't seen many conclusions from them.

That's interesting, cheers Jo. I had all manner of tests when I got diagnosed with heart arrhythmia years ago -and later undiagnosed!- so assumed they obviously would, but was odd given the profile of some of the players that these issues flare up occasionally.

I guess the age profile of the players affected- some teens and others veterans like Aguero- suggests it can strike pretty randomly too