Chain Draft Round 1 - Cal? vs diarm

With players at peaks in the teams indicated, who will win?


  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .

VivaJanuzaj

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.....................................Team Cal?.....................................................................................Team diarm.........................................

Team Cal?
Starting XI:
Van der Sar
(70s) - one of the best goalkeepers ever at United, always reliable, needs no introduction.
Zambrotta (70s) - one of the key players in Italy's WC win in 2006, selected in the team of the tournament in both WC06 and Euro04.
Aldair (60s) - Brazil's first choice CB for most of the 90s, winning the WC in 94 and making the final in 98.
Cannavaro (70s) - Italy's most capped player, captained Italy to the WCin 2006 and only the 3rd defender to win the Ballon d'Or. One of the best CBs ever.
Evra (80s) - needs no introduction, part of United's most dominant defence during those glory years in the late 00s.
Pirlo (70s) - 3 times man of the match (inc the final) en route to Italy's WC in 2006, one of the best regista ever.
Leonardo (60s) - Member of Brazil WC94 winning squad, won the Serie A with Milan in 98-99.
Djorkaeff (60s) - 82 caps for France, winning both the WC98 and Euro00.
Robben (80s) - the best Dutch player since Van Basten? Key part in Bayern's Treble and probably the 3rd best player in the world for a few years.
Ribbery (80s) - the other key player in Bayern's Treble and another contender of 3rd best player in the world during those years.
Weah (60s) - the best African player, the only African to ever win the Ballon d'Or and the Fifa World Player of the Year.

Tactics:
A standard 4-2-3-1, a solid defence led by Cannavaro with 2 great attacking full backs who can provide the width when Ribery & Robben cut in against Diarm's rather wingless formation (no idea who he's playing but looks like he has no wingers).
In midfield, Pirlo will orchestrate the game from his deep lying position whilst Leonardo will provide the energy behind Djorkaeff who will provide the through balls for my very speedy forwards.
Robben, Ribery and Weah all very fast players and should easily outpace his defenders.

Pls note, G. Baresi is a decent enough player, not Franco he's not! Also I suspect Cantona and Baggio will only get in each other's way as I can't imagine either of them playing wide.


Team diarm
Decades Criteria

50's (x3): Tacconi, Tardelli, Baresi
60's (x4): Baggio, Klinsmann, Cantona, Amoros
70's (x5): Campbell, Scholes, Bokšić, Veron, Neville

Team Info & Philosophy


Team Diarm will not line out in imitation of an historic side of yesteryear, but in a bespoke setup designed to make the most of the wealth of talent in our side.

A traditional looking 4–3-3 is brought to life by the multifaceted abilities of our superb midfield. The one-man army that is Marco Tardelli provides the heartbeat to our side with his wonderful tackling, passing and positional play powered by a seemingly inexhaustible engine. Along with providing the shield to our defence, we will also benefit from his trademark driving runs and effective attacking plays.

Tardelli is brilliantly complimented by the tenacity, vision and technical ability of Juan Sebastian Veron and Paul Scholes. These two will alternate to keep the opposing midfield guessing; one holding as the deeper lying playmaker while the other advances as the attacking midfielder and link man to the attack. The versatility of the Argentine in particular, will also allow him to cover the forward drives of Tardelli resulting in a fluid, balanced and unpredictable midfield 3.

The energy, passing ability and vision of this midfield will prove the winning of the match against an opposition that lacks the protection their star man Pirlo needs to be truly effective. Without a dominant central midfielder in their setup, we will look to dominate possession with our unpredictable movement, accurate passing and a team full of players who are comfortable on the ball.

Behind this exciting midfield is our rock solid defence - 5 leaders, winners and national heroes who boast an impressive array of awards, trophies and broken records. Two defensively excellent fullbacks will pose a real challenge to our opponents star wide men, while Baresi with his intelligent reading of the game and Campbell, with his aggression and aerial ability, will relish the challenge of dealing with the danger that does get through from wide areas. Behind this well balanced and powerful backline, we have one of the finest keepers in Serie A history in Stefan Tacconi, a man who has literally won it all.

Up top, our front 3 is made up of a mobile, industrious and prolific striker supported by left and right inside forwards of the very highest quality. Klinsmann will provide the movement and hustle to pull the defenders out of position, creating the space for our two geniuses behind to impose their style and magic. Baggio receiving the ball in withdrawn or wider areas and running at defenders with pace, trickery and world class dribbling while Cantona supplies the long range goal threat, disguised passing and magic moments to unlock any defence. Without a defensive midfield presence in our opponents team, the varied talents of these two gifted technicians will dovetail to great effect.

The width of our attacking play will be provided by our fullbacks, Neville on the right offering smart and efficient use of the ball as well as accurate crossing from deeper areas. His energy and stamina allowing him to provide the occasional option on the overlap although his focus will admittedly be on defence. The more effective and exciting attacking width will come down the left hand flank where Amoros provides real class, speed and ability in attack. Faced with the dribbling pace and guile of both the Frenchman and Roberto Baggio attacking in tandem, our opponents defence will have their work cut out. Tardelli will be tasked with covering Amoros’s attacking forays, focusing on the threat of Robben on the counter.


Why Team Diarm will win

World class players across the board
An airtight defence, a brilliant midfield and 3 of the finest attackers to play the game. There are simply no weak links in the side and in Amoros, Tardelli, Veron, Scholes, Baggio, Cantona and Klinsmann we boast 7 matchwinners, capable of creating something from nothing in a heartbeat.

Balance and versatility
Our midfield has it all. Pace, energy and tenacity coupled with intelligence, vision and astounding technical ability. The dominant Marco Tardelli provides the platform for the brilliance of Scholes and Veron while our opponent’s squad contains two attacking midfielders in Leonardo and Djorkaeff, neither of whom will provide the sort of midfield support the superb Andrea Pirlo requires to stamp his authority on a game.

Attacking unpredictability
Our opponents defence is tasked with managing the movement and threat of Klinsmann as well as the mercurial talents of Baggio and Cantona behind him. Without an effective defensive midfielder operating in the spaces between defence and midfield that those two like to occupy, the back 4 will be torn between coming out to close them down (running the risk of being punished by Klinsmann in behind) or standing off and allowing them space. Not an enviable position to be in. If this wasn’t enough, there is also the threat of Scholes, Veron or even Tardelli arriving late to the box and Amoros penetrating from wide left.
 
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diarm

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@diarm I would just like to point out that personally I think Baresi should be written on the formation sheet as "G.Baresi" and not just "Baresi" as it is misleading.

@Edgar Allan Pillow
I didn't even think of that but it is a fair point. Although looking at it, it's just as possible that people might think I'm playing Phil Neville or Dino Baggio as well!
Happy to change it if you like. Give me a few minutes and I'll send you an updated version.
 

harms

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Yep, Baresi without "G" is misleading. Especially when he isn't called by the name in the write-up, not once.

I was curious how diarm would play Cantona, Baggio and Klinsmann all at the same time and I've got to say I don't like what I see here. I would prefer a diamond with Eric as №10 behind the mobile Baggio - Klinsmann duo.

And a usual question - which Scholes is it?
 

crappycraperson

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Oh boy.. I thought that was GOAT Barsei there. Cal needs to bold and increase the find on that part in his write up, diarm has either been a bit naughty or just an oversight. :D

Regardless, diarm has slight edge in terms of personnel but his team seems like a collection of attacking players, all of whom would want to control the central space. Baggio as a left forward in 433 would just about cut it if you had a more traditional right winger/forward but Cantona as one does not cut it. Scholes circa 06-8 probably won't work with Veron as welll and if you play earlier version of Scholes, you are basically adding another CAM of sorts.

It is a very flawed side. Even if he was to switch to the diamond, not sure I fancy Scholes as someone to go out wide.
 

harms

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I didn't even think of that but it is a fair point. Although looking at it, it's just as possible that people might think I'm playing Phil Neville or Dino Baggio as well!
Happy to change it if you like. Give me a few minutes and I'll send you an updated version.
It's an all-time draft, nobody would assume that it's Phil Neville here. If there are no clarifications it's implied that it's the most talented of Baresi's/Neville's etc.
 

diarm

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OK updated version sent on to @VivaJanuzaj . I have a write up on all my players that clearly defined which Baresi it is coming now as well.
 

diarm

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Team Profiles

Stefan Tacconi

Tall, springy and athletic, Tacconi had that rare blend of reflex and agility reserved only for the finest goalkeepers. Brought in by Juventus to replace Zoff in 1983, Tacconi was a mainstay and rock at the heart of a defensive outfit that won every trophy available over the next decade.

Still, the only keeper to have won every international club competition, Tacconi boasts a medal collection including Scudettos, a Coppa Italia, a Supercoppa Italia, a European Cup, a Cup Winners Cup, a UEFA Cup, a European Super Cup and an Intercontinental Cup.

Sometimes overlooked in the long list of fabulous Italian keepers, Tacconi remains one of the finest goalkeepers of his generation and looks right at home as the last man of our sturdy defence.


Gary Neville

Little introduction is needed. Neville was a rock at the heart of the most successful period in Manchester United's illustrious history. Consistently infallible in defence, Neville adapted his game over the years to be one of the first names on the teamsheet of at least 3 different generations of United under Ferguson.

From his earlier days and the wonderful understanding he developed with David Beckham, to his role in later years as leader and role model, Neville wore his heart on his sleeve and left nothing behind on any pitch he played.

One of the truly great one club men, Neville retired as United's (and in my opinion England's) greatest ever Right Back with a trophy haul including 8 Premier League titles and 2 European Cups among many others.


Manuel Amoros

Sits alongside Lilian Thuram as the finest fullbacks in the history of French football, Amoros had every club in the bag. Strong, fast and skillful, he went to 1982 world cup as a 20 year old starting member of a semi-final reaching side, hitting the crossbar in the 89th minute and scoring his penalty in the shootout as France ultimately lost out to West Germany.

Equally proficient with both feet, Amoros matched his determined and combative nature with real pace, skill and an unusual goal threat for a full back. Impeccable at the back, the flying Frenchman offered a real threat on the counter attack and on the overlap for both club and country.

The complete full back, he was named Young Player of the World Cup in 1982 and made the Team of the World Cup in 1986, bowing out in the semi final of both tournaments either side of winning the European Championships in 1984.


Giuseppe Baresi

Sometimes overshadowed by the illustrious achievements of his younger brother, Barsei remains one of the finest defenders of his day. Capable of performing to a high level as both defensive midfielder and full back, it was as the quintessential game reading Italian centre back that Baresi shone best, using his great footballing intelligence, anticipation and positional awareness to stop attacks in their tracks.

With the ball, Baresi was graceful and technically excellent, comfortable in bringing it out from the back and beginning attacks with clever and well placed passing. During a long career at Inter Milan, Barsei saw his most successful period while team captain during the late 80's, winning the Serie A, Supercoppa and UEFA Cup.


Sol Campbell

Adored by Arsenal fans and hated by Spurs, Campbell goes down as one of the finest centre backs England has seen. Blessed with genuine pace, strength and aggression, Campbell was a mainstay at the heart of the unbeaten "Invincibles" Arsenal side of 2003-04.

During his career, Campbell won 2 titles, 4 Fa Cups and scored in the final of the European Cup as Arsenal lost out to Barcelona. He was named in the PFA Team of the year on 3 occasions as well as the Team of the Tournament at both the 2002 World Cup and the 2004 European Championships.

The complete defender, big Sol Campbell possessed a quickness of foot and ability on the ball that belied his uncompromising nature. In our defence, his hard edge and strength will provide the perfect foil to the more cultured stylings of Baresi beside him.
Marco Tardelli

The machine, the engine, the heartbeat of our side. Tardelli was the man with the iron lung and an apparently relentless appetite for work. A total midfielder, this Italian legend was defensive midfielder, box to box'er and attacker all rolled into one. He was comfortable and confident on the ball, capable of tearing a side apart with intelligent and accurate passing or driving forwards with the ball at his feet.

In and around the box, Tardelli possessed a tremendous shot off both feet as shown by his powerful left footed strike from outside the box against Germany in the World Cup final of 82 (as well as his iconic celebration thereafter!).

5 Scudettos, 2 Coppa Italias, a European Cup, a UEFA Cup and a World Cup winners medal only tell half the story of one of the finest all round midfielders in football history.


Juan Sebastian Veron

The perfect foil to Tardelli's all action approach, Veron was an extraordinarily gifted midfielder who lit up Italian football during the 1990's. One of the finest passers of a football the game has seen, Veron mixed the graceful with the brutal, offering both guile and vision with a hard edge that allowed him contribute across the midfield.

A midfield metronome capable of floating past opponents as effortlessly as delivering the killer pass, Veron was strong and tenacious in the tackle and wonderfully imaginative with the ball. Dovetailing in our midfield with both Tardelli and Scholes, Veron will an energy and unpredictability which will be difficult to counter.

With a list of achievements and awards to long to list, the "Little Witch" from Argentina remains one of the iconic figures of Serie A football and a force to be reckoned with in the middle of the park.


Paul Scholes

The little Ginger Wizard. Any player idolised by the likes of Xavi Hernandez and Andres Iniesta is not to be taken lightly.

Scholes of Manchester will go down in history as one of the finest midfielders of his or any generation with his God given ability to be always in space, his immaculate retention of the ball and his penchant for imagining and then picking out the type of pass that is beyond mere mortals.

He dictated the play in a manner that very few players in history could come close to. A true players player, Scholes is admired and idolised by some of the finest names the game has ever seen. In attack, it was said that when Scholes struck a ball, it made a different sound to others and the sight of a Paul Scholes volley or long range thunderbolt is etched into the mind of every Manchester United fan.

There are honestly about a million quotes I could use to sum up Scholes and the esteem he is held in around the football world but one of my favourites has always been from Brazilian legend Socrates:

"Good enough to play for Brazil. I love to watch Scholes, to see him pass, the boy with the red hair and the red shirt."
 

diarm

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Eric Cantona

The King and conqueror of the Theatre of Dreams.

Eric Cantona was an enigma. He was aloof, arrogant and at times cranky but above all else, he was an artist. With a love for the beautiful game and a clear belief in the way it should be played, Cantona was perhaps Fergusons greatest ever signing and the player who began the wonderful Premier League journey of Manchester United.

Capable of producing moments of utter fantasy on the pitch, Cantona was the hero of every boyhood United fan growing up. With his ability to score goals from nowhere and the tough, uncompromising way in which he bullied and dominated opposing defenders, Cantona was the undeniable superstar of the early Premiership years and at times, dragged United to titles seemingly on his own.

Blessed with great feet, skill, strength and unparalleled vision and imagination, Cantona was unstoppable at times, leading United to multiple trophies and earning the adulation of those in English and world football, if not always his home nation.


Roberto Baggio

The Divine Ponytail.

One of the greatest footballers in Italian and world football history and the player who first made me fall in love with the beautiful game as a 7 year old watching the World Cup in 1994.

Quick, dynamic and wonderfully skillful with both feet, Baggio is one of the greatest dribblers ever seen. He terrorised defences for club and country and during the early 90's, was the finest footballer in the world. Some of my fondest childhood memories are waking up on Sunday mornings to watch Football Italia on Channel 4 with my dad and looking forward to seeing what Baggio had done that week!

With an impressive goalscoring record at both domestic and international level, Baggio was at his most effective when allowed to roam outside the box, receiving the ball in space and running at terrified defenders. Almost impossible to tackle, the Italian magician was ruthless once he entered the box but also deadly from outside it.


Jurgen Klinsmann

Tenacious, combative and prolific, Klinsmann is the perfect man to lead our gifted front 3 with the German bringing a work rate and hustle perhaps lacked by his more enigmatic partners.

A nightmare for defenders, Klinsmann never stopped moving and was lethal when given the slightest opportunity. Impressive scoring records in Germany, Italy, England and at International level prove his credentials as one of his countries finest ever strikers.

His finest hour of an impressive career came at the 1990 World Cup. With Rudi Voller sent off early in their second round match against Holland, Klinsmann would lead the line alone for over an hour, dominating the Dutch defensive line by himself and scoring the opener as Germany prevailed on route to the final where another fine Klinsmann performance contributed to the win against Argentina.


Alen Bokšić


Strong and belligerent with excellent technical ability and a thunderous shot, Bokšić features prominently on the list of all time Croatian stars.

Possessing, but not reliant on deceptive pace, the large Croatian relied more on his great strength and deftness of touch, as well as a strong work ethic to lead the offensive line.

A real handful for defenders, Bokšić was never the most prolific if strikers but a real team player, selfless in his efforts for the greater cause and a firm favourite of his fans at clubs in his homeland, France, Italy and England.
 

diarm

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I was curious how diarm would play Cantona, Baggio and Klinsmann all at the same time and I've got to say I don't like what I see here. I would prefer a diamond with Eric as №10 behind the mobile Baggio - Klinsmann duo.
I think that would be a waste of Baggio's strongest asset which was picking up the ball in deeper areas, often in wide positions and attacking the box from outside.

I'm the first to admit that my side isn't about width, but against a side that lacks any form of defensive midfielder, the ability of both Baggio and Cantona to play between those lines of defence and midfield is going to be golden.

And a usual question - which Scholes is it?
It is Scholes of the turn and the first few years of this century. Still an attacking force but also possessing the cultured passing and ability to dictate terms in a game. He'll work perfectly with Veron in this side because both have the ability to advance and withdraw to great effect. It's fairly well accepted that Ferguson and United changed our style after Veron, where we saw his best performances in Europe and Fergie realised that the helter skelter approach that worked in the Premiership (and saw Veron struggle) wasn't so effective at a higher level.

We won't be playing with the width and pace of United, but in a more controlled, possession based style based on the technical ability of our 3 midfielders and the genius ahead of them.
 

The Stain

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Balance is off in both teams imo. Cal?'s team has Leonardo, an attacking midfielder (playmaker or support striker), along with Pirlo in a two-man midfield. This will give diarm's centrally focused team a lot of opportunities though the middle. All chances for Cal? will come on the wings and i see them creating a lot of opportunities there.

diarm's team will have the players fighting for the ball. There are almost to many players that crave the ball. Not putting a G in front of Baresi is poor form and almost makes me want to vote for Cal? for this alone.
 

Marty1968

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Like Cal's team and particularly his back 5 with Pirlo in front of them. Leonardo is playing slightly out of position. He was never a box to box midfielder and neither was Djorkaeff.

Saying that, think Diarm is clearly trying to get some cheap votes by just putting 'Baresi'. And he doesn't really have much width going forward. Baggio and Cantona were not wingers and were both happiest through the middle.
 

diarm

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Balance is off in both teams imo. Cal?'s team has Leonardo, an attacking midfielder (playmaker or support striker), along with Pirlo in a two-man midfield. This will give diarm's centrally focused team a lot of opportunities though the middle. All chances for Cal? will come on the wings and i see them creating a lot of opportunities there.

diarm's team will have the players fighting for the ball. There are almost to many players that crave the ball. Not putting a G in front of Baresi is poor form and almost makes me want to vote for Cal? for this alone.
I sent a replacement graphic to Viva as soon as it was mentioned and have clearly outlined Giuseppe Baresi in the player profiles above. At this stage it's going to hurt me more than anything else because everyone is going to seriously underrate a player who was a seriously good defender in his own right. It wasn't an intentional trick - I didn't put the first initial of any of my players but I've held my hand up and said it was wrong.

As for your points on the game, they are all fair. Cal?'s team will definitely pose a huge threat on the wing but I do feel I have a defensively strong pair of fullbacks to help counter this.

Part of the reason for my formation is precisely that Team Cal? lacks a defensive, or even true central midfielder. The energy of Tardelli, Veron and Scholes should give me a clear edge here and Cantona and Baggio, two very different players who's only real similarity is that they're seen as number 10's, should thrive in the space between midfield and defence.
 

The Stain

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I sent a replacement graphic to Viva as soon as it was mentioned and have clearly outlined Giuseppe Baresi in the player profiles above. At this stage it's going to hurt me more than anything else because everyone is going to seriously underrate a player who was a seriously good defender in his own right. It wasn't an intentional trick - I didn't put the first initial of any of my players but I've held my hand up and said it was wrong.

As for your points on the game, they are all fair. Cal?'s team will definitely pose a huge threat on the wing but I do feel I have a defensively strong pair of fullbacks to help counter this.

Part of the reason for my formation is precisely that Team Cal? lacks a defensive, or even true central midfielder. The energy of Tardelli, Veron and Scholes should give me a clear edge here and Cantona and Baggio, two very different players who's only real similarity is that they're seen as number 10's, should thrive in the space between midfield and defence.
That's fair. Am actually surprised he's taken an early lead. Your central midfield will run this game. I think you win this if you'd restrict your fullbacks (tell them to defend solely). Will see how the discussion goes but i'll prob give you my vote. 3-2 in a high scoring game.
 

diarm

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That's fair. Am actually surprised he's taken an early lead. Your central midfield will run this game. I think you win this easily if you'd restrict your fullbacks (tell them to defend solely). Will see how the discussion goes but i'll prob give you my vote. 3-2 in a high scoring game.
The arrow on Neville is probably misleading. As per my write up, he will offer the occasional option but will be more restrictive.

Amoros on the other hand is just too good going forward to restrict him. I appreciate that this will leave me vulnerable to Robben on the counter but the beauty of having Marco Tardelli is the ability to take those risks, safe in the knowledge that he can cover in behind.

The idea of Amoros attacking the outside of Baggio is thrilling.
 

Joga Bonito

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Yep, Baresi without "G" is misleading. Especially when he isn't called by the name in the write-up, not once.

I was curious how diarm would play Cantona, Baggio and Klinsmann all at the same time and I've got to say I don't like what I see here. I would prefer a diamond with Eric as №10 behind the mobile Baggio - Klinsmann duo.

And a usual question - which Scholes is it?
Agreed with this, first thing that came to my mind when seeing diarm's players was a diamond. Perhaps he doesn't strictly need to play a diamond but one with Cantona as the #10, Baggio as the left sided forward and Klinsmann as the pacy inside right. As it stands Cantona on the right looks a bit out of place and whilst Neville as the RWB isn't ideal, think it would still be better than the current formation. Tardelli too isn't ideally a DM but he could do a job there.

Not too convinced about Leonardo's role in Cal's midfield but I do like the Weah as a foil of sorts for Robbery.
 

VivaJanuzaj

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As for the match, I'm not sure I'm happy with Pirlo's role in Cal's team, but the idea of him setting mostly Robben but also Ribery out on the counter against Amoros who can get caught a time or two(which might be sufficient for Robben to exploit with his speed) up the pitch and Neville. Also give Weah the ball to use his strength to put down to either of them with face to goal and that's lovely.
 

diarm

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Was he equally adapt on the left side, though?
Yes. Obviously he's more famous as a right back because that's where he was needed, but he is one of the few genuinely two footed players and was equally adept on either side.
 

diarm

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As for the match, I'm not sure I'm happy with Pirlo's role in Cal's team, but the idea of him setting mostly Robben but also Ribery out on the counter against Amoros who can get caught a time or two(which might be sufficient for Robben to exploit with his speed) up the pitch and Neville. Also give Weah the ball to use his strength to put down to either of them with face to goal and that's lovely.
I think that's the biggest threat to be honest. I can definitely see them hurting me down that flank but the muppet in me doesn't want to leash Amoros. My consolation is that there isn't a midfielder I would choose over Marco Tardelli to cover that threat.
 

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  • Cal's going to get badly over-run in midfield. Some lovely stuff on the ball, but the back four will get very little protection when they don't have it. Diarm's midfield is pretty tasty and there's enough in the tank of that trio to do the necessary here.
  • Diarm is too narrow. Neither Cantona nor Baggio will forage wide, nor will his midfielders. It's quite a lot to ask of Neville to own a flank in this company.
  • Given the concerns above, Klinsmann is a very good frontman. He can go wide, do the hard yards, and hold it up well for Cantona and Baggio. Especially when the space in front of Cal's defence is going to be somewhat open. It's hard to think of a better foil than Jurgen in that respect.
  • Cal's advantage here is that the presence of Ribery and Robben will prevent Amoros and Neville doing too much overlapping (which is a tactical requirement of a narrow set-up).
 

VivaJanuzaj

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I think that's the biggest threat to be honest. I can definitely see them hurting me down that flank but the muppet in me doesn't want to leash Amoros. My consolation is that there isn't a midfielder I would choose over Marco Tardelli to cover that threat.
Yeah, while on the opposite wing, although Baggio-Cantona-Klinsmann is far from perfect, without a proper defensive midfielder and with two attacking full backs in Evra and Zambrotta, I'm not sure you won't be able to exploit it either, even with an attack which isn't the best suit for either of them.
 

harms

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I think that would be a waste of Baggio's strongest asset which was picking up the ball in deeper areas, often in wide positions and attacking the box from outside.
It doesn't mean that he can't drop deeper - he is obviously a second striker in that set-up, he is the best player on the pitch and he should be given freedom to do what he wants. It's more about Cantona - he is unsuited to the role that you picked for him, imo.
 

diarm

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Yeah, while on the opposite wing, although Baggio-Cantona-Klinsmann is far from perfect, without a proper defensive midfielder and with two attacking full backs in Evra and Zambrotta, I'm not sure you won't be able to exploit it either, even with an attack which isn't the best suit for either of them.
I really think it's a great fit. Cantona will naturally occupy a more central role than Baggio who will come deeper and wider to receive the ball. Without defensive minded midfielders, I see these two linking really well and making great use of the space created by Klinsmann's movement in front.

Their defensive line is going to have to decide whether they want to come out and close down that space, creating opportunities for Baggio to dribble through them or Veron/Scholes/Cantona to find Klinsmann in behind, or whether to sit back and afford Cantona in particular, but also Baggio, Scholes, Veron or Tardelli space to shoot from outside the box.
 

diarm

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It's more about Cantona - he is unsuited to the role that you picked for him, imo.
I don't see that. He isn't a winger in my system but an inside forward as I've clearly stated. He won't be expected to occupy wide channels but instead the space between midfield and defence in which he was always so dangerous. Against a team with Pirlo and two attacking midfielders, I can't think if a role he'd enjoy more.

 

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This is a difficult one. Leonardo was a right midfielder from memory and is hardly suited to play alongside Pirlo. If Cal? had a proper box-to-box midfielder alongside Pirlo it would be much better.

Diarm has the better players but really hasn't got a fluid set-up. With the players he has I think this would make the most sense (though far from perfect)

------Baggio-----Klinsmann
------------Cantona---------
---Scholes---------Tardelli---
------------Veron-----------
-----------Back 4-------------

With Amoros as a proper wingback Scholes (old ones) can stay central and Baggio has freedom to forage. Tardelli could play wide box-to-box and link with Klinsmann. Veron just sits in front of the back four and sprays it around.

Not sure how to vote on this one. Will wait and see the arguments and or any changes.
 

diarm

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This is a difficult one. Leonardo was a right midfielder from memory and is hardly suited to play alongside Pirlo. If Cal? had a proper box-to-box midfielder alongside Pirlo it would be much better.

Diarm has the better players but really hasn't got a fluid set-up. With the players he has I think this would make the most sense (though far from perfect)

------Baggio-----Klinsmann
------------Cantona---------
---Scholes---------Tardelli---
------------Veron-----------
-----------Back 4-------------

With Amoros as a proper wingback Scholes (old ones) can stay central and Baggio has freedom to forage. Tardelli could play wide box-to-box and link with Klinsmann. Veron just sits in front of the back four and sprays it around.

Not sure how to vote on this one. Will wait and see the arguments and or any changes.

I could agree with that lineup if I was facing a side with a strong midfield and a defensive midfielder. But in this match, I can't see why I would put Baggio so advanced, place Tardelli out on the right and waste Scholes on the left.

I want the best player on the pitch coming deep and wide on the left, receiving the ball in that space and turning to run at them. They will also have to counter the threat of Cantona and Klinsmann while watching out for runs from deep from my midfield. The thought of what Baggio could achieve in this set up is scary.



 

harms

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I don't see that. He isn't a winger in my system but an inside forward as I've clearly stated. He won't be expected to occupy wide channels but instead the space between midfield and defence in which he was always so dangerous. Against a team with Pirlo and two attacking midfielders, I can't think if a role he'd enjoy more.
Look - "zona mista" light, minus right winger and plus one central midfielder. Tardelli, who usually played more like box-to-box for Juventus and Italy is actually your best choice to provide width on the right (him and Neville here should be enough); Veron and Scholes as an interchangable, if you want (I, personally, think that it's too much) pair of DLP and central midfielder. Amoros on the left is enough to provide width here, Baggio is in his best role slightly in behind on the left, Klinsmann as the guy who keeps the defenders on their heels and makes space for Baggio and Cantona and The King, the least mobile of the three in the more static role in the centre.


 

diarm

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Look - "zona mista" light, minus right winger and plus one central midfielder. Tardelli, who usually played more like right box-to-box for Juventus and Italy is actually your best choice to provide width on the right (him and Neville here should be enough); Veron and Scholes as an interchangable, if you want (I, personally, think that it's too much) pair of DLP and central midfielder. Amoros on the left is enough to provide width here, Baggio is in his best role slightly in behind on the left, Klinsmann as the guy who keeps the defenders on their heels and makes space for Baggio and Cantona and The King, the least mobile of the three in the more static role in the centre.


That's probably a more accurate picture of how I've written up our attack in fairness. That's how I see it happening for the front 3.

As for Tardelli on the right, I see what you are saying but I think the threat of Robben means we would lose any effectiveness of Amoros down the left. Without Tardelli offering that protection, he simply couldn't afford to attack and expect Scholes to cover in behind.
 

Physiocrat

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I could agree with that lineup if I was facing a side with a strong midfield and a defensive midfielder. But in this match, I can't see why I would put Baggio so advanced, place Tardelli out on the right and waste Scholes on the left.

I want the best player on the pitch coming deep and wide on the left, receiving the ball in that space and turning to run at them. They will also have to counter the threat of Cantona and Klinsmann while watching out for runs from deep from my midfield. The thought of what Baggio could achieve in this set up is scary.

Scholes wouldn't be on the left if Amoros plays very attacking. Also I'm imagining Baggio playing exactly as you describe (probably just a limitation of typing the lineup). Seems like Harms agrees with me with Tardelli.
 

Šjor Bepo

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dont really like any team here....cal's midfield is awful, non existent and dont think he can play without one even though he has a lovely defence and attack.
diarms team is to narrow, lacks pace and i dont know who is this Baresi guy :D But saying that, being to narrow in this game isnt a negative thing as they will have a field day through the middle.
 

diarm

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@harms @Physiocrat I've updated my positional gif with our attacking positioning when we have the ball. I think your image better reflects what I had in mind for my front 3 when we're attacking harms.

As for the midfield, I think Veron could do that job on the right hand side, maybe not to the same extent that Tardelli could but for this match, I feel I need Tardelli's qualities further back, where his work rate and ball winning ability can counter their attacking midfielders and assist our fullbacks.

I'd agree with Tardelli being a great box to box midfielder and have pointed that out in my write up, but he was also a world class defensive midfielder and I think we need those talents more in this game.

 

Physiocrat

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That definitely looks better Diarm. Thinking about it the complete lack of a midfield from Cal will mean you should win this- going 3-1 to you. @diarm What do you use to create the gif?