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Chain Draft Round 1 - Cal? vs diarm
- Thread starter VivaJanuzaj
- Start date
This is a close one. I prefer the personnel in diarm's team, but think the players fit into the system better in Cal?'s. Well, except for Leonardo who's making it tough for me.
Yeah, without being disrespectful I am sat here thinking why couldn't we draw either of these two rather than Pat_Mustard's side.dont really like any team here....cal's midfield is awful, non existent and dont think he can play without one even though he has a lovely defence and attack.
diarms team is to narrow, lacks pace and i dont know who is this Baresi guyBut saying that, being to narrow in this game isnt a negative thing as they will have a field day through the middle.
This goal alone is nearly enough to deserve a win... I could watch that all dayI don't see that. He isn't a winger in my system but an inside forward as I've clearly stated. He won't be expected to occupy wide channels but instead the space between midfield and defence in which he was always so dangerous. Against a team with Pirlo and two attacking midfielders, I can't think if a role he'd enjoy more.
haven't seen your post
great minds...There are flaws in both teams, but I went with diarm in the end - cal's midfield is just awful as a unit, sorry. On the first glance in was an easier choice, with great Baresi leading the defense 
Yep, harsh as it may sound, it is a major problem in this game.
Nice.
Indeed. I didn't see yours either.haven't seen your post
Formation gifs in the OP? Always nice to see people following your footsteps.
dont really like any team here....cal's midfield is awful, non existent and dont think he can play without one even though he has a lovely defence and attack.
diarms team is to narrow, lacks pace and i dont know who is this Baresi guy
I've acknowledged from the start that our side doesn't have the most width and that we will rely on possession and technical ability rather than blistering speed in attack. But I'm not sure it's fair to say we are completely without pace.
Amoros was as fast as they come, Baggio was quicker with the ball at his feet than most could ever hope to be and Klinsmann was certainly no slouch.
The width argument I hold my hand up and accept. I've even designed my tactics around it and to hopefully exploit my opposition through the middle. But I do believe my side has decent pace and outstanding ability through the middle.
Let's not forget that Sol Campbell holds the second fastest recorded speed in Premier League history after Theo Walcott!!!
I scrolled down to fast and spent 5 minutes staring at your formation waiting for it to move!Formation gifs in the OP? Always nice to see people following your footsteps.
I don't see major weakness in diarm team baring lack of width but on the other side Cal's lack of legs in the MF would certain hurt him.
@diarm you cant really count Amoros as someone who will provide pace, im talking about pace up front of course. You can use current United side as example, Shaw's pace in meaningless in our lack of pace up front. The only one i counted as pacey even though he isnt a fast player is Baggio as you said, he is pretty damn fast with ball in his feet but other then that you dont have much. Klinsmann is mobile but he isnt fast.
If only you could swap striker with cal
If only you could swap striker with cal
I scrolled down to fast and spent 5 minutes staring at your formation waiting for it to move!
That's fair enough on Klinsmann although I've clearly outlined that I will be using Amoros as an attacking outlet. He was a real threat going forward and outside Baggio cutting in, he will be very dangerous here.@diarm you cant really count Amoros as someone who will provide pace, im talking about pace up front of course. You can use current United side as example, Shaw's pace in meaningless in our lack of pace up front. The only one i counted as pacey even though he isnt a fast player is Baggio as you said, he is pretty damn fast with ball in his feet but other then that you dont have much. Klinsmann is mobile but he isnt fast.
If only you could swap striker with cal
I don't think comparisons with the current United side are apt though. United struggle against sides that sit players back and frustrate them but I can't see Pirlo, Leonardo and Djorkaeff doing that here. Against teams who don't do this (Brugge, Liverpool and Spurs last season) we've been quite effective in attack. Besides, a front 3 of Cantona, Baggio and Klinsmann is a very different prospect to one of Mata, Rooney and Memphis!
How would people compare Cantona v Djorkaeff out of interest? I imagine on a Utd forum it would be heavily biased in Cantona's favour, but I think I'm right in saying that Djorkaeff along with Zidane kept Eric out of the French team for quite a while. Eric would have had the better domestic peak for sure but I think he did little on the big stage in Europe or Internationally which is a question mark hanging over him in an all time draft for me.
I'm a huge fan of Djorkaeff but Cantona's lack of recognition at international level had nothing to do with footballing ability.
This is the the Pirlo on the past few years, great though he still is, in his Milan days, he was more than capable of putting in a shift in midfield. I don't see Veron being any better if not much worse in that regard.
Leonardo did play as an AM a lot of the time but energy was never an issue, even during his LB days when he kept a young Roberto Carlos out of the Brazil lineup.
Also, here's a little gem scored by Weah..
I think most are thinking the same. Whoever wins this dodged a bullet here.
@diarm has some great personnel but is still far from having a well balanced side. Too much of the same sort of player. Still don't get why exactly he got Verón, if this was the idea it wasn't a great one. I hate seeing Tardelli anchoring a midfield, surely that's what Verón or late Scholes should be doing as DLP?
@Cal? doesn't have a midfield though, which is a shame because the rest is nicely constructed. If there was one team @diarm's narrow approach could work against it's one without a midfield.
The Divine Ponytail and Le King behind Klinsmann? I just don't think it can work, it looks nice on paper but neither Cantona or R Baggio were ones to drift wide.
Also, hasn't Sir Alex's little experiment shown us that Scholes and Veron doesn't work?
Also, hasn't Sir Alex's little experiment shown us that Scholes and Veron doesn't work?
Sir Alex has shown that a midfield is not vital, also having Pirlo at his peak is anything but a lack of midfield, probably better than the midfield that helped us walk the league in SAF's final season.
It showed Ferguson that he needed to adapt his philosophy in order to be more competitive in Europe. It didn't work in an all action United side based on pace and width alongside Keane and Scholes who were used to playing a certain way.
With Tardelli in a fluid and interchangeable midfield 3, with a possession based and more patient game plan, I think it would work to great effect. Especially without a strong opposing midfield presence to disrupt it.
On your point about Veron not offering more legs than Pirlo is incorrect. Veron was much more than just a playmaker and brought real bite and tenacity to the midfield. Alongside Tardelli here, we would simply overrun Pirlo and Leonardo who are both superb players, but who both require a ball winner or enforcer beside them.
Depends on the setup. If you want someone to be the heart of the team, carry all the attacks, playing in the hole and have everything go through him and him having the desire and determination to make it work then Cantona, but if you want someone to provide a quality support act and be a part of nice quick interchanges instead of having everything rest on your shoulders then I'd say Djorkaeff. Cantona would be less likely to shine in a role like that where he has to be a part of a machine rather than being at the helm.
Not too sold on either team. The balance looks off in both. I'm struggling to look past Leonardo in midfield and the complete lack of protection Pirlo would get, even when on the other side I'm not convinced at all by the Cantona-Baggio-Klinsmann set up. All great players but you have to use them in positions they played in to get their peak. I'm edging towards Diarm because I think he wins the midfield battle here. Tardelli is probably the most important player on the pitch in that regard.
We won the league yes, but we didn't get there beating a team with Baggio, Cantona, Scholes and Tardelli every week. They are just walking through it.
I've tweaked my lineup to better show the attacking shape of those front 3. Have sent it to Viva and asked him to update the OP:
A lot better. Personally I think that Tardelli would have been ideal for Veron's role here but I also see the purpose of having him as the most defensive midfielder there to add grit and work rate to an otherwise maybe too elegant midfield.I've tweaked my lineup to better show the attacking shape of those front 3. Have sent it to Viva and asked him to update the OP:
Yeah. He'd obviously be better suited to that role but when I'm lacking width, I just think he allows Amoros to give me some.
There's a point there that Cal's defence can push high to squeeze the space for Diarm's midfield. But while Klinsmann was not Ronaldo quick, he was still pretty nippy - 11.0s for 100m apparently.@diarm you cant really count Amoros as someone who will provide pace, im talking about pace up front of course. You can use current United side as example, Shaw's pace in meaningless in our lack of pace up front. The only one i counted as pacey even though he isnt a fast player is Baggio as you said, he is pretty damn fast with ball in his feet but other then that you dont have much. Klinsmann is mobile but he isnt fast.
If only you could swap striker with cal
It is precisely the lack of width which calls for Tardelli as the RCM.
What does Amoros have to do with that? You are not imagining some absurd scenario where Tardelli of all people is anchoring a midfield so as to fill in at LB when Amoros attacks, or are you? If so, we've all gone bonkers.
Yups, he was no Usain Bolt but he was fast and astute enough to cause problems to any high line AFAIC.
Oddly, it's similar treatment to the one he got when Boris had him in the reality draft. I had a three-man high-line and he had Batistuta and Klinsmann. For some reason everyone kept drooling at Batigol and ignored Klinsmann. I spent the entire game mystified as to how nobody pointed out the threat from Klinsmann running behind my defenders' backs.
Klinsi will punish a high line without question, he was rapid, and extremely clever and opportunistic and alert to punish any space left behind. Combined that with his physical play and strength - an absolute juggernaut. Almost Gullit-esque in his physical aspects..
OP now with @diarm 's updated formation
I take it you didn't like the "astute enough" description
Boy was I glad you had self-banned yourself in that game. I was like "WTF?", almost wanted to post the comment myself, it was the only point in that draft I actually thought my high line was really vulnerable.
@Cal? who is your sub?
Tardelli isn't anchoring but he is the most withdrawn of my midfield 3 because he has the best engine and best defensive ability of that trio. By placing him at RCM I would get more benefit from his attacking capabilities through the middle but I'm not short on attacking ability through the middle. As good as he was, he's not going to be skinning fullbacks on the wing and putting in crosses.
It is precisely the lack of width which calls for Tardelli as the RCM.
What does Amoros have to do with that? You are not imagining some absurd scenario where Tardelli of all people is anchoring a midfield so as to fill in at LB when Amoros attacks, or are you? If so, we've all gone bonkers.
By placing him in the more withdrawn role, I can alternate him with Veron (I did outline this in my OP) to use his attacking prowess but also keep him back when Amoros goes forward. The Frenchman is the one player who can take on a fullback and deliver to Klinsmann from wide areas and as much as he offers in midfield, Veron could not give that cover as well as Tardelli does.
Just because Tardelli was as good as he was as an out and out box to box midfielder, doesn't mean we should forget that he was also a world class defensive operator renowned for his positioning and ball winning ability. He would perform well in this role and against this midfield and for the most part, when Amoros is not attacking, he will be given great license to push forward.
I take it you didn't like the "astute enough" description
Boy was I glad you had self-banned yourself in that game. I was like "WTF?", almost wanted to post the comment myself, it was the only point in that draft I actually thought my high line was really vulnerable.
Haha, yeah I've never been shy of expressing my love for Klinsi, can't comment on the game you are talking about but surely a threat against a high line.
Batigol - Klinsi seems like a nice front two. Quite difficult to keep both quiet.