They have better players and a better coach.
Champions League Last 16 games - Feb/Mar 2015
- Thread starter Sarni
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Yep but you got other platform to compare yourself against City (Premier League), the only way you can compare yourself against Monaco is Champions League and they've been better than you. I'm not saying they're a superior side, they might be not, I just find the statement 'Arsenal are clearly better than Monaco' a bit silly.
Then they should probably be able to at least repeat Monaco's result from Emirates in Monaco.
And I'd be the first one to agree with you about that.
It's a one-off game and we've been known to have extreme results on our off days. We're talking about the same team that lost 4-0 to Milan and then beat them 3-0 at home. I'm against making hyperbolic statements based on one games, so I think we should discuss this after the return leg.
Yeah, I won't say that Monaco are much better than Arsenal or anything of a sort, one off game isn't enough to warrant that but they're not 'clearly worse than Arsenal' either and if yesterday's game doesn't prove that nothing will. They've been a decent football team for a while and with players like Moutinho, Kondogbia and Berbatov it's not really a shock that they've managed to do pretty well against good European teams this season (Leverkusen, Benfica and Zenit are all all right teams, so are Arsenal). One of the most solid defensively teams in Europe this season.
I was in the BayArena yesterday, Atletico were bad, Leverkusen were the better team, Atletico also a bit unlucky with the early substitutions they had to make.
And of course once I watch them Koke is out injured for a while :-(
At least I had a great view and it was still fun.
Don't know what to expect in the return leg, Atletico could either be in great form and win 3-0 / 3-1 or concede early which will most probably mean the tie is over.
Oh and Arsenal, haha: They never learn in Europe, do they? How can you play as regularly in Europe over the years as them but still somehow not make any progresses?
And of course once I watch them Koke is out injured for a while :-(
At least I had a great view and it was still fun.
Don't know what to expect in the return leg, Atletico could either be in great form and win 3-0 / 3-1 or concede early which will most probably mean the tie is over.
Oh and Arsenal, haha: They never learn in Europe, do they? How can you play as regularly in Europe over the years as them but still somehow not make any progresses?
Teams like these tend to have a good run in the CL. Think Atletico last season and Arsenal from 2005-06. Monaco may just be the surprise package of this year's tournament, but this is the CL so anything can happen - they may capitulate completely against better opposition.
I still think Atletico will do Leverkusen at home, comfortably so. 1-0 is a bitch of a result but Atletico could pull off a 3-0/4-0 home win if they play to their ability, and they do know how to motivate themselves. Then again I won't be shocked if they go out now.
How long is Koke out with his injury? Will he return for the 2nd leg? Without Godin, Thiago and Koke, I'm not so sure that they can easily get a 3-0/4-0. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 1-0 with extra-time and penalties or something like that. I'd say, Atletico are still slight favourites, but it should be an exciting game.
Wenger's record in the CL is pretty average to be honest. It's not that surprising that a young and talented coach with a history of fantastic defensive organisation gets the better of him in a game like that. Obviously Wenger has been an exceptional manager over his whole career, but as a pure tactician in a CL knockout tie? Nothing surprising about yesterday's game, not at all.
Yes I'm sure most people predicted a Monaco win
Arsene Wenger is a better coach than Leonardo Jardim. It's not even close tbh.
I wasn't talking about the result itself, but about the tactical set-ups from both managers and the quality of it. I wasn't surprised by that at all.Yes I'm sure most people predicted a Monaco win
So you expected Arsenal to win but thought they'd be shite tactically? Arsenal set up to attack and Monaco set up to hurt them on the counter, anybody could have predicted that. Nobody could have predicted Giroud would miss three sitters ( ok maybe some would have predicted this
), and Sanchez and Ozil should play terribly.Actually no, I expected a draw and Monaco to go through overall. They're an annoying team to play against and were severely underrated on the Caf.So you expected Arsenal to win but thought they'd be shite tactically? Arsenal set up to attack and Monaco set up to hurt them on the counter, anybody could have predicted that. Nobody could have predicted Giroud would miss three sitters ( ok maybe some would have predicted this
This 100%.
As for Wenger, he's a very good coach, of course, but he's nothing special in Europe. His tactical nous is pretty poor.
It is and it isn't. It´s multinational has been tracking me for a while and white the conditions they are ofering i mind up ended in Wales. Stuck in Sonae for so long, i think i need a new level.Thank you mate. Very consuming, it's theoretically easier than previous years (apart from the thesis) but the pressure of not failing at the final hurdles, after such a long road, is daunting.
Wales? I always assumed law would be a hard field to work outside your country. Good on you! Hope you pick up some accent
Anyway i hope you pull it off, so close for you do become doctor House and forget Porto
Had Martial scored and Carrasco squared it then really it could also been more embarrassing. I don't think you can say Monaco are better than Arsenal on the basis of one match but they performed much better and were better organized in terms of tactics.
It was our previous manager. Picked up a team what finished 7th rehabilitated players like Rojo and William Carvalho and made us a very dfficult side to beat. Defensively we were the best defensive in the league although we didn't have the best players.Jardim's defensive organization is excellent and close to Mourinho's best work. I think he won't be at Mónaco for long unless they restart investing heavilly. He was the most important part of our football structure. Discet and hard work oriented. I think he will move to a bigger club soon.
We talking about Moutinho here right? Never had a big injury and is a very reliable player. That little engine can covered ground for hour. It's a great player and every manager like players him. Rarely reaches impressious level but it's very regular and a trully team player.
First time Leverkusen have won a match in the last 16 in quite a while, right? Was a good performance by them and that goal was brilliant! I reckon they've got a chance of advancing if they stay organised in the return leg.
As for Arsenal, a 1:3 defeat at home has only been overturned three times if I'm not mistaken. Read it somewhere on twitter last night. Monaco have been very organised defensively, not sure if they would pull it off.
As for Arsenal, a 1:3 defeat at home has only been overturned three times if I'm not mistaken. Read it somewhere on twitter last night. Monaco have been very organised defensively, not sure if they would pull it off.
In the CL? It's the first since their run to the final in 2002.
Weren't they in the 2nd group stage after their 2002 run to the final? That would be the equivalent of today's round of sixteen. I could be wrong though.
People keep mocking Leverkusen for their "bottling" and their "weak mentality" etc.
Yet Leverkusen have reached the round of 16 in each of their last CL campaigns. If you had to make a list of the 16 biggest clubs in Europe then surely Leverkusen wouldn't make that list. So despite them often losing to the big teams quite heavily they've overall done well to make it out of the group stages time and time again while leaving teams like Valencia, Shakhtar, Benfica, Zenit, Real Sociedad etc behind them. Also while they got destroyed by Barcelona, PSG, and United, they've also beaten Chelsea and now Atletico in recent years. I always wonder what some people expect from a team like them.
Yet Leverkusen have reached the round of 16 in each of their last CL campaigns. If you had to make a list of the 16 biggest clubs in Europe then surely Leverkusen wouldn't make that list. So despite them often losing to the big teams quite heavily they've overall done well to make it out of the group stages time and time again while leaving teams like Valencia, Shakhtar, Benfica, Zenit, Real Sociedad etc behind them. Also while they got destroyed by Barcelona, PSG, and United, they've also beaten Chelsea and now Atletico in recent years. I always wonder what some people expect from a team like them.
No, because Arsenal have a better team. Any team can lose to any team. We lost to Swansea the other day, but I don't think Swansea are better than us. Monaco deserved to win there is no doubt about that, but on paper Arsenal have got to be the better team, imo at least, compared to Monaco.
I agree it won't be easy. But if Arsenal can nick a goal in the first 15-20 minutes, suddenly the momentum will shift and things could get interesting.
They were and lost all 6 games
."Better on paper" thing is meaningless. The only fact is that they are more expensive.
They have a tendency to hilariously feck up games and ties they could win though. It's true that their overall results in Europe are pretty decent if you look at their finances.
I predict 1-1 away when they met again. Doubt Wenger will tactially outwitt Jardim. Best they can hope it's some individual efforts from Arsenal´s superior player. God how i miss Jardim. He never had a change of meeting the president's new wife
Cant you understand irony and a little joke about the constant manager search in any club?For me that was a more shocking result tonight.
Amazing assist by Bellarabi and great goal by Calhanoglu too
But Leverkusen are Leverkusen......they could easily lose 5-0 against Atletico in 3 weeks.
Then Im sorry.
I thought that anyone could come to the conclusion that I meant a Schmidt, who has 2 or 3 years under his belt with the hype around him starting in the near future.
Again. Should have thought of you.
Yeah. Some of that comes from their weak mental attitude against big sides in the past. When they represented the Bundesliga and really fu**** up.
You can lose against Barca and PSG. And some days you get a 7:1 or a 4:0. But you really got the feeling that some of the players never tried.
So I get the anger. But there is a limit.
Every team fu**s up and the club had good past season. So Im with you. People like @Balu are just mean. Laughing at a hard working team? No.
I for one really hope that Bayer sees the potential and keeps the money going. That team deserves it.
@Sly: Hey man. All fine? Your view on Sporting Wolfsburg? My hint; 3 men on Dost.
How can you say that with such confidence? Jardim's just 40 and could easily turn out to be the better coach.Yes I'm sure most people predicted a Monaco win
Arsene Wenger is a better coach than Leonardo Jardim. It's not even close tbh.
Yeah, obviously I also see where the mocking is coming from. It's quite obvious which games hurt Bayer's reputation the most. But I just don't agree with the opinion that Bayer always represents Germany badly. They play to their own strengths and are getting just about as far as they can which should be viewed positively in my opinion. It's simply tainted by their disappointing games against big teams recently which has led to mocking them becoming some kind of internet trend...to the point where people think they actually never do anything good.
When I said ">some< people keep mocking Leverkusen" I never meant anyone in specific, especially not specifically Balu whom I respect as a poster very much. I literally meant some people.
I didn't even realise that Fabinho got Uefa Motm last night. Good for him, played really well in DM.
For some reason @anchan1989 believes I hate Leverkusen, even though I probably spent more time defending Leverkusen's and Schalke's results and performances in Europe than anyone else on the Caf and regularly react if someone calls them shit. They do deserve to be mocked for some of their hilarious feck-ups though. It's way too much fun to look past it.
I said is meaning in the present.
The possibility exists but I am skeptical. Wenger when all is said and done will have a statue outside the Emirates and will be regarded as an all time great in the premier league at least. Jardim has a long way to go.
Leverkusen were very good and pressed well, but it's tough to see a front 6 so young and so offensively oriented not having trouble away in a CL tie. Spahic was brilliant at times yesterday, but away might be a different story.
Atletico missed Koke, too. They couldn't keep the ball against the Leverkusen press enough to even start up counters or create chances off of their weird triangles in the corners between striker, winger and fullback on that right side.
I would think Simeone will keep it tight and not panic for a half or even an hour. Should be fascinating.
Schmidt is the most over-rated coach in europe in the last years.Cant you understand irony and a little joke about the constant manager search in any club?
Then Im sorry.
I thought that anyone could come to the conclusion that I meant a Schmidt, who has 2 or 3 years under his belt with the hype around him starting in the near future.
Again. Should have thought of you.
He is a better manager overall but in setting up defensive schemes Wenger stands no chance. Jardim is a much better coach than Wenger. Look at what he's doing with an oftenYes I'm sure most people predicted a Monaco win
Arsene Wenger is a better coach than Leonardo Jardim. It's not even close tbh.
injured 37 year old Carvalho, Wallace, Fabiano, Raggi or Kurzawa. It's a matter of time till Leonardo Jardim moves to a bigger club after Olympiakos, Sporting and Mónaco.
How can one categorically affirm that? You're very possibly right, but Jardim has been manager for about 10 years, starting it in the hardest possible way (climbing from the lowest of lowest divisions, without ever being a player) and has done well almost every season, and extremely well in about half of them, fulfilling more than the required objectives.
Jardim is effectively starting his career at the highest level, whilst Wenger's noticeable accomplishments were more than 10 years ago. The almost unanimous opinion around here seems to be that he has under-performed since then. And we're talking about present, right? Not accumulated achievements.
It's not easy being objective in a case like this. I guess the only way to see it would be if Leonardo Jardim picked the reins at Arsenal or a smilar club. Could he do better than what Wenger has done recently? I don't think this is in any "guessable", but I don't see any reason, by what I know of Jardim's career, to bet either way. And if he indeed did better, wouldn't that make him a better coach? If you think such a thing is impossible to envision I'd like to know why. I can't see Jardim doing better than Mourinho, Guardiola of Simeone of course. But I can't exclude him doing better than Wenger, whom most neutrals seem to think is outdated and no longer a top manager.