Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

UweBein

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Did not deserve to win.
Played badly. Still won 3-1 :drool:
I‘ll take that, every single match day.
 

Bilbo

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They didn't look good today, but a win is a win.

Still not buying they've somehow leaped a level above us.
You are right not to, and I've been beating this drum on here all summer to the pessimists and sulkers that simply believe signings=better.

For me the big issue of defence has not been fixed, and because of that they will still lose too many games. I think they will win a few more league points than last season because, and last night was a perfect example of this, they will win some games they shouldn't simply because they are stacked with talent.

I like Lampard, but there's no doubt that spending this much money has bought a lot of pressure on him. 3-1 away at a good Brighton side is a great start to the league, but they will now be expected to win AND look good doing it, and if they don't it will be on him.
 

GaryLifo

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Did not deserve to win.
Played badly. Still won 3-1 :drool:
I‘ll take that, every single match day.
Not what a lot of your fans were saying last season when we twatted you at Old Trafford. It was all about how you lot were the better side and crying about us being lucky.

Funny how things change when your own team does it ;)
 

ayushreddevil9

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Not what a lot of your fans were saying last season when we twatted you at Old Trafford. It was all about how you lot were the better side and crying about us being lucky.

Funny how things change when your own team does it ;)
Don't you know the concept of shifting goalposts?
 

WeePat

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Not what a lot of your fans were saying last season when we twatted you at Old Trafford. It was all about how you lot were the better side and crying about us being lucky.

Funny how things change when your own team does it ;)
It's one game. Half of what I think will be the eventual first 11 weren't available.

Fair point though, this is what comes with being a football fan. If we played well and lost, the losing part is emphasised. If we played badly and won, the playing badly part is emphasised, if we played well and won, well, I suppose that would be the only way to avoid being bantered by rival fans.

In fairness, as a Chelsea fan I have done the exact opposite of the above. I've just focused on the win and tried to talk as little as possible about the performance.
 

Makelele

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I believe Lampard got the shape completely wrong. Pretty much everything that could go wrong tactically went wrong. Playing two deep midfielders in Kante and Jorginho is fine if you have a mobile and moving playmaker infront of them. Ideally two of them. Instead what you had was a sluggish RLC, and your two most mobile attackers where put out on the wings, left isolated, for some reason. Very very weird. I am sure Lampard knows something I don't, but it seemed like the shape of that team was all over the place.

It is an easy fix, but should not happen too often at this level.
 
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Andycoleno9

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Huge admiration for Chelsea from my side. Excellent and quick transfer window. They knew what they want and they done that. I have my doubts about Havertz (90mil is far too much for him imo) but the rest are very good buys. Transfer ban was jackpot for them. Gave them huge chance to play youth players so now they have best depth in PL by far. On every position they have two options and first 11 look pretty strong.

On negative side (for them of course, not from United perspective); Kepa is average gk and Lampard must work about defensive setup. But i think that Silva and Rudiger will be solid defensive duo.
And they should have kept Pasalic. Or get far more money that they did.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I think expecting Chelsea to challenge is a bit much, unless Liverpool and Chelsea drop off this year. Better way to look at is your own position and points tally. I'd say 3rd place and a jump from 65 (which was low due to loanees/Lampard 1st season/Kepa) odd points to around 78/80 points would be a significant step forward and in line with the investment.
The problem with us is that Ole was doing a very poor job initially and also that we got rid of a lot of true 1st teamers which sort of nullified the gains made in terms of quality albiet they were correct decisions in the long run.
I totally agree with you and wasn't trying to have a dig at Ole or anything. I guess what I was just trying to get at is that the argument that "if you spend X million, you must be a title contender or you've failed" is silly, reductionist, and lacks an understanding of the broader context.

If we get to 80 points this season I'd be very satisfied, even if that leaves us in 4th still.
 

Pagh Wraith

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Lampard said that Kepa is their goalkeeper and he's happy with him but left the door open for "competition" coming in. Make of that what you want but with Kepa in goal 3rd will be their ceiling.

Didn't watch the match last night but looks like a poor performance judging by the stats. But Chelsea missed their best two players from last season last night (Kovačić, Pulišić) so they should be competitive against Liverpool if they return. There were in all of their matches against Pool last season.
 

Noodle

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We were poor last night but got the 3 points. Not going to get too worried about the performance, first game after a tough preseason, with Mount and Havertz playing in unfavourable positions.

Kovacic, Pulisic, Ziyech Silva, Chilwell and a new keeper yet to come into the lineup.

It's going to take a month or so to get everyone in and settled. I'll begin to judge us as we go into October/November.
 

blue blue

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I believe Lampard got the shape completely wrong. Pretty much everything that could go wrong tactically went wrong. Playing two deep midfielders in Kante and Jorginho is fine if you have a mobile and moving playmaker infront of them. Ideally two of them. Instead what you had was a sluggish RLC, and your two most mobile attackers where put out on the wings, left isolated, for some reason. Very very weird. I am sure Lampard knows something I don't, but it seemed like the shape of that team was all over the place.

It is an easy fix, but should not happen too often at this level.
Thats harsh on Lampard. Chelsea were quite rightly criticized last season for their defensive frailties so in the first match he put two defensive midfielders in front of the defense and he still gets stick. You then talk about not having a play-maker in front of them when Havertz and Mount were there. Are you saying you don't think Havertz is a play-maker? We are yet to see him in the premier league but I think he made plenty of play in the Bundesliga last season. I'm pretty sure Frank would have set the team up differently if Kovacic was available but RLC came in and didn't perform well at all.

Frank will not be pleased with the performance but quite rightly he won't be tearing into the players. They have been together for less than a week after the international break and then into the first game. There has never been such a short pre-season so its hardly surprising the team set up isn't quite right, especially if you consider the introduction of so many new players.
 

Mb194dc

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Was a confusing game. Didn't get it when saw the line up. Defensively I thought we did well.

Tactically seemed very different to last year. We looked threatening on the counter, with one better pass would have been in on a couple of moves.

What I'm wondering is if we'll see a very different Chelsea this year. Maybe Frank thought only way to score enough goals without Hazard last year was gung ho possession football. It worked in fairness.

So this season we'll play deeper and counter more. Would suit Werner and Kante plus leave defense and goal much less exposed.

Genius at work ?
 

Alexit

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Every time I watch them play under Lamps they look like sh!t defensively and I think to myself, a top team will rip them to shreds. I think they'll win comfortably against lower teams but I don't see them beating better teams with that sh!tty defense. If they do, it'll be 4-3, 5-4 that type of thing. (And, oh, they can keep Kante!)
 

Noodle

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Every time I watch them play under Lamps they look like sh!t defensively and I think to myself, a top team will rip them to shreds. I think they'll win comfortably against lower teams but I don't see them beating better teams with that sh!tty defense. If they do, it'll be 4-3, 5-4 that type of thing. (And, oh, they can keep Kante!)
You say that and a lot of people agree with you, although it doesn't really happen often. We beat Spurs twice, Arsenal, City and also beat Utd and Liverpool in the cup. The only side who did actually take full advantage was utd in that first game.
 

duffer

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Every time I watch them play under Lamps they look like sh!t defensively and I think to myself, a top team will rip them to shreds. I think they'll win comfortably against lower teams but I don't see them beating better teams with that sh!tty defense. If they do, it'll be 4-3, 5-4 that type of thing. (And, oh, they can keep Kante!)
You're allowed to say "shit" properly.
 

WeePat

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Thats harsh on Lampard. Chelsea were quite rightly criticized last season for their defensive frailties so in the first match he put two defensive midfielders in front of the defense and he still gets stick. You then talk about not having a play-maker in front of them when Havertz and Mount were there. Are you saying you don't think Havertz is a play-maker? We are yet to see him in the premier league but I think he made plenty of play in the Bundesliga last season. I'm pretty sure Frank would have set the team up differently if Kovacic was available but RLC came in and didn't perform well at all.

Frank will not be pleased with the performance but quite rightly he won't be tearing into the players. They have been together for less than a week after the international break and then into the first game. There has never been such a short pre-season so its hardly surprising the team set up isn't quite right, especially if you consider the introduction of so many new players.
Playing with Loftus-Cheek really hurt the team last night. When Barkley came on, it almost felt like we were back to 11 vs 11 and we started to regain some control of the game. That may have just been a case Brighton tiring as the game wore on, but I felt an immediate difference when Barkley entered the game.
 

Dancfc

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Not what a lot of your fans were saying last season when we twatted you at Old Trafford. It was all about how you lot were the better side and crying about us being lucky.

Funny how things change when your own team does it ;)
Works both ways. Opposition fans wouldn't have it at any point last season when it was pointed out we were playing better than results suggested, now all of a sudden performances matter.
 

GaryLifo

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Works both ways. Opposition fans wouldn't have it at any point last season when it was pointed out we were playing better than results suggested, now all of a sudden performances matter.
Last season you hadn't spent the gdp of a small country on players. When you do that expectations of performance quality go up.
 

Dancfc

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Playing with Loftus-Cheek really hurt the team last night. When Barkley came on, it almost felt like we were back to 11 vs 11 and we started to regain some control of the game. That may have just been a case Brighton tiring as the game wore on, but I felt an immediate difference when Barkley entered the game.
Barkley felt like Xavi by comparison.

I've always tried to hold back on being too critical with Ruben but aside from half a season under Sarri he's been the definition of a player who's reality can't match up to his potential/ideal.
 

WeePat

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Barkley felt like Xavi by comparison.

I've always tried to hold back on being too critical with Ruben but aside from half a season under Sarri he's been the definition of a player who's reality can't match up to his potential/ideal.
I feel bad for him, because I really think there is a genuine top player in him, but, and I don't want this to sound too dramatic, that stupid friendly in America might have just killed Loftus-Cheek's Chelsea career for good. Towards the end of that season, he was literally a top 3 player in the team. I haven't even seen small glimpse of that Loftus-Cheek since the injury. I'm still willing to give him time, and I actually do believe that he can be a great player, but I fear it won't be at Chelsea.
 

blue blue

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Playing with Loftus-Cheek really hurt the team last night. When Barkley came on, it almost felt like we were back to 11 vs 11 and we started to regain some control of the game. That may have just been a case Brighton tiring as the game wore on, but I felt an immediate difference when Barkley entered the game.
Couldn't agree more. The effect was instant and his confidence spread through the team. James and Kante upped their game and we started to look like a decent side.
I think it was James goal that hurt Brighton more. They thought they were back in the game but that goal was real kick in the proverbials. They controlled the middle of the park for most of the night but when Barkley came on and James moved into the middle it changed.
Frank may not be the finished article when it comes to setting a team up or tactics but I have great faith in his ability to learn and I think he learnt a lot last season. He will have learnt from last night as well but I don't think you can knock him for giving RLC a go in that position. RLC just didn't look to be using his full strength.

Lots of talk about Barkley being sold but on that performance I would hold on for the moment.
 

Dancfc

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Couldn't agree more. The effect was instant and his confidence spread through the team. James and Kante upped their game and we started to look like a decent side.
I think it was James goal that hurt Brighton more. They thought they were back in the game but that goal was real kick in the proverbials. They controlled the middle of the park for most of the night but when Barkley came on and James moved into the middle it changed.
Frank may not be the finished article when it comes to setting a team up or tactics but I have great faith in his ability to learn and I think he learnt a lot last season. He will have learnt from last night as well but I don't think you can knock him for giving RLC a go in that position. RLC just didn't look to be using his full strength.

Lots of talk about Barkley being sold but on that performance I would hold on for the moment.
I honestly don't understand the calls to sell Barkley, he's too inconsistent to ever be a starter but he's a dream in regards to squad depth.

Unless he does a Lukaku and demands a role above his station i am more than happy to have him.
 

Noodle

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What a brainless moron,

Lampard gets a full season with this squad barring a disaster. If he doesn't comfortably secure top 4 and show signs of improvement then we'll talk about the sack.
 

WeePat

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Couldn't agree more. The effect was instant and his confidence spread through the team. James and Kante upped their game and we started to look like a decent side.
I think it was James goal that hurt Brighton more. They thought they were back in the game but that goal was real kick in the proverbials. They controlled the middle of the park for most of the night but when Barkley came on and James moved into the middle it changed.
Frank may not be the finished article when it comes to setting a team up or tactics but I have great faith in his ability to learn and I think he learnt a lot last season. He will have learnt from last night as well but I don't think you can knock him for giving RLC a go in that position. RLC just didn't look to be using his full strength.

Lots of talk about Barkley being sold but on that performance I would hold on for the moment.
I honestly don't understand the calls to sell Barkley, he's too inconsistent to ever be a starter but he's a dream in regards to squad depth.

Unless he does a Lukaku and demands a role above his station i am more than happy to have him.
I don't mind having him as a squad option, he's clearly a useful player, but when everyone's fit and ready, I just don't think he'll be the first in line to come off the bench, and he could fetch a decent amount of money on deadline day.
 

Mb194dc

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Did Lampard run this guys dog over or worse maybe :lol:

Typical shout sport. Get most controversial opinions in to outrage everyone and get them calling in to vent. Used to listen to it years ago when driving and was fairly good entertainment and comedy at times in fairness, like this mental clip. Adrian Durham, so transparent also must be a bit dated by now surely.
 

PepG

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Lampard will be sacked before Christmas. He cant organize his defence and now is relying on the qualities of a veteran player like Silva to fix it..NO WAY!
 

zakk88

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Did not deserve to win.
Played badly. Still won 3-1 :drool:
I‘ll take that, every single match day.
I'll take this any day over our start last season, where we played so well against United only to lose 4 nil, with pundits praising our effort
 

RooneyLegend

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They looked a mess. They signed good players and all that but they weren't really thinking about he the players fit together in a team. Sure, we saw Havertz play where he played yesterday at Leverkusen near the end of the season but he looked rather mediocre. Pretty obvious he's not a natural attacker.

The moment they signed Havertz after signing Ziyech I had a feeling this project was going nowhere.

What surprised me the most was the tactical deterioration of the side. Not sure Lampard knows what hes doing. Nothing I've seen tells me he's a top coach. They are becoming structurally worse by the game.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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They looked a mess. They signed good players and all that but they weren't really thinking about he the players fit together in a team. Sure, we saw Havertz play where he played yesterday at Leverkusen near the end of the season but he looked rather mediocre. Pretty obvious he's not a natural attacker.

The moment they signed Havertz after signing Ziyech I had a feeling this project was going nowhere.

What surprised me the most was the tactical deterioration of the side. Not sure Lampard knows what hes doing. Nothing I've seen tells me he's a top coach. They are becoming structurally worse by the game.
Erm, what? Havertz played as a false 9 after the resumption of the Bundesliga. Yesterday he was a right winger. Not even remotely close to the same position.
 

Dancfc

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Lampard will be sacked before Christmas. He cant organize his defence and now is relying on the qualities of a veteran player like Silva to fix it..NO WAY!
Bit of a weird timimg to go after the defense, 3/4 of the back line were excellent last night and Brighton only got in behind them once, yes admittedly that was a massive let off (Dunk's header). Hopefully this is a sign the new coach has made a difference.

I was actually a lot more concerned about the attacking patterns and our ball possession, although the vast improvement on that score after RLC was hauled off made me breath a little easier.