Chelsea 2020/21 - General discussion

reelworld

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I am optimistic, still I do not think it is a given.
There might be a few surprise teams this year with Everton, Leicester, Wolves.... let's see how Arsenal and Spurs do... we might see a season where every team bar Liverpool will have to fight for top 4.
For all the snide on how Chelsea spent, I think it's a superb piece of business to get both Pulisic and Ziyech just over 100 million euros. I would be over the moon if United manage this.
 

Pow

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Tomori shouldnt be loaned out.
Get rid of Christensen if we are to lose a cb.
Said all that needs to be said about that waste of space in goal. He should never play another game for us.
 

WeePat

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Been quite happy with the defensive structure so far, haven't even come close to conceding a set piece so far either (fluke sample size or new coach made a difference?).

I'm a little concerned about the attacking structure though, ever since the return from lockdown it's looked shit (depresses me when I think how good the Everton game before the shutdown was) the sheer amount of individual quality we've got should get us top 4 relietevely comfortably but not sure we can make the next jump (to a title) with this, I know we did under Jose but we weren't facing two super human freaks back then.
Yeah we have defended well, hardly given up any genuine chances in either game. Just the Dunk chance in the Brighton game, and Mane's first goal yesterday. Yet we've conceded 3 goals in 2 games two of which a more competent keeper would have prevented.

I think the attack is will sort itself out. Ziyech is very creative. Werner has shown he constantly makes excellent runs. Havertz will settle down, and his third man running/late timed runs into the box will get him a lot of goals and then there is Pulisic.

If we can somehow strike a balance among our midfielders, we could have a very good season.
 
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B20

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It could have worked if we hadn't had to play with 10 men for 45 minutes. Liverpool were huffing and puffing, not really creating anything and we looked somewhat threatening on the counter with Werner. I don't know if we would hold out for 90 minutes with 11 men, but even with 10 men it still needed a complete howler, putting it on a plate for Mane and a penalty miss to help you get the win, so I think we were secure enough defensively.
The way it tends to go is that we find a way. Our game management these days is the best I've ever seen from us. Teams make it difficult for us and we find a way through sheer persistence of pressure and pace.

If you had managed the first goal, then maybe. I don't think you'd have held out for a clean sheet though.
 

WeePat

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The way it tends to go is that we find a way. Our game management these days is the best I've ever seen from us. Teams make it difficult for us and we find a way through sheer persistence of pressure and pace.

If you had managed the first goal, then maybe. I don't think you'd have held out for a clean sheet though.
Maybe not, you're probably right.

I was just judging it based on how the game actually panned out. Kepa's howler and Jorginho's penalty miss are not ordinary occurrences. So if we reverse those, we're a looking at a 1-1 game, but Liverpool may well just have taken the foot off the gas 2-0 up against 10 men. I imagine if you were in danger of actually dropping points, you would have turned it up a notch and applied some real pressure.
 

bond19821982

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It could have worked if we hadn't had to play with 10 men for 45 minutes. Liverpool were huffing and puffing, not really creating anything and we looked somewhat threatening on the counter with Werner. I don't know if we would hold out for 90 minutes with 11 men, but even with 10 men it still needed a complete howler, putting it on a plate for Mane and a penalty miss to help you get the win, so I think we were secure enough defensively.
You were very much on the game 11v11 and had some decent chances through Werner. Should have started Giroud.

Once it was down to 10, you had no chance though.
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Must say I've been generally impressed with our defensive setup so far. Small sample size of course but same time last year, going a man down for 45mins would have resulted in a mauling as we'd have still stuck with our gung-ho ways and got killed on the counter by Liverpool (or pretty much any team with decent wingers).
I'm not so concerned with the attac either. We've clearly been handicapped a bit with Pulisic and Ziyech out. Havertz is going to need time to grow into the league but he played a lot better than against Brighton.
Wasn't really surprised by the lose to this Liverpool side (in fact I predicted a 1-2 lose to them in the prediction thread, shame amount the missed pen). In all, still a positive start to the season. Hopefully we'll see more of the new boys introduced into the line up in the League cup. Looking forward to seeing Tiago and Chillwell in there.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Defensively I thought you did well but I think you were found wanting a bit going forward. I thought we had more control over the game in the first half without creating a great deal.

Still it’s early in the season and you have more signings to come in.
Think that's fair. Thought Werner looked lively but didn't do enough when put through. Havertz I thought was generally pretty good in a very challenging role. Mount didn't do enough with the ball though. We were crying out for Ziyech's passing quality to find our forward runners in better and more creative ways.

Still, there won't be many tougher tests for us this year; can't say I am overly discouraged by the performance overall.
 

Powderfinger

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I think the attack is will sort itself out. Ziyech is very creative. Werner has shown he constantly makes excellent runs. Havertz will settle down, and his third man running/late timed runs into the box will get him a lot of goals and then there is Pulisic.

If we can somehow strike a balance among our midfielders, we could have a very good season.
I think the biggest issue is whether Werner can actually be your starting CF most matches. He has great movement running behind the defense and on the break. But I'm not sure he really has a natural striker's movement, instincts, or finishing skills in the box when you have teams pinned deep.

IMO, there is a good chance that Lampard eventually decides that Giroud or Tammy needs to start most matches and that Werner is more of a left side wide forward than a central striker, especially when you expect the opponent to defend deep and hit you on the break. The issue then becomes that Werner really plays in the same spaces as Pulisic.
 

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I think the biggest issue is whether Werner can actually be your starting CF most matches. He has great movement running behind the defense and on the break. But I'm not sure he really has a natural striker's movement, instincts, or finishing skills in the box when you have teams pinned deep.

IMO, there is a good chance that Lampard eventually decides that Giroud or Tammy needs to start most matches and that Werner is more of a left side wide forward than a central striker, especially when you expect the opponent to defend deep and hit you on the break. The issue then becomes that Werner really plays in the same spaces as Pulisic.
Pulisic can also play #10, as can Ziyech and Havertz, so I think the end result might just be fluent front 3, but Werner being the primary central figure. I don't think it's true that he lacks the finishing skills against a parked bus. I have seen him score very instinctive goals in tight spaces before. It might not be his bread and butter, but he looks very comfortable in those situations.

Lampard will need to figure out a way to incorporate all these guys into a functioning unit, and that will really be his downfall or the thing that elevates him to the top tier of managers in the game.
 
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WeePat

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Havertz got into a really good position here. Wide open at the back post if almost anybody else but Kante had the ball. I can imagine Ziyech in the same situation putting it on a plate for Havertz.

 

Bastian

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So what's going to happen with Abraham? Is he going to be content sitting on the bench?
 

Dancfc

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So what's going to happen with Abraham? Is he going to be content sitting on the bench?
I think he's perfect for the number 2 striker role at a big club. I actually view him in a similar way i did Lukaku when he was here, has his uses and guarantees goals but something not quite there in regards to leading the line at a club looking to win the league, also like Rom, when he's bad he's very bad.

I personally feel he will prefer going somewhere he's guaranteed a number 1 spot (Leeds may take him, potentially Leicester if Vardy finally starts showing his age) but for selfish reasons i hope i'm wrong as like i said he'd be perfect as a horses for courses option.
 
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Bastian

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I think he's perfect for the number 2 striker role at a big club. I actually view him in a similar way i did Lukaku when he was here, has his uses and guarantees goals but something not quite there in regards to leading the line at a club looking to win the league, also like Rom, when he's bad he's very bad.

I personally feel he will prefer going somewhere he's guaranteed a number 1 spot (Leeds may take him, potentially Leicester if Vardy finally starts showing his age) but for selfish reasons i hope i'm wrong as like i said he'd be perfect as a horses for couses option.
Yeah, I would feel the same way. I just recall some talk of him stalling on a deal a few months ago before getting some assurances about his importance to the team. I think a lot of clubs would be interested in him.
 

Powderfinger

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Havertz got into a really good position here. Wide open at the back post if almost anybody else but Kante had the ball. I can imagine Ziyech in the same situation putting it on a plate for Havertz.

Nice find. Good vision on the pass and does well to drift to the far post while staying onside.
 

Mount's Goatieson

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Can't post media but it seems Lampard has confirmed Eduard Mendy is having his medical at the club. Hopefully he is a lot better than what we have now.

I also believe someone is about to win a bet in here? :lol:
 

ZolaWasMagic

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Can't post media but it seems Lampard has confirmed Eduard Mendy is having his medical at the club. Hopefully he is a lot better than what we have now.

I also believe someone is about to win a bet in here? :lol:
That is me pal! I bet thereligion that we'd get all the positions i listed and they would not get Sancho :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope he has been doing his paper round while i waited
 

duffer

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That is me pal! I bet thereligion that we'd get all the positions i listed and they would not get Sancho :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope he has been doing his paper round while i waited
He's not posted in quite a while. Don't be spending the dosh yet!
 

Dancfc

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That is me pal! I bet thereligion that we'd get all the positions i listed and they would not get Sancho :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hope he has been doing his paper round while i waited
:lol: would have thought he'd have held back a bit on the boldness after getting pretty much every prediction about the football restart in the "will the PL be voided" thread wrong (although in fairness he is far from the only one that has got post's ageing pretty badly in that thread).
 

GameOn

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Pulisic can also play #10, as can Ziyech and Havertz, so I think the end result might just be fluent front 3, but Werner being the primary central figure. I don't think it's true that he lacks the finishing skills against a parked bus. I have seen him score very instinctive goals in tight spaces before. It might not be his bread and butter, but he looks very comfortable in those situations.
Werner is not good at all against defensive teams. I've watched a ton of Leipzig games and everytime teams sit back deep, he's almost invisible. That's why he's also had it very hard in the German N11 so far.

He's good when he has a ton of space to make his runs and use his great speed, but outside of that he's really average at best in most other areas (first touch, technique, finishing, vision, decision making etc.), which really limits him a lot in those kind of games.

The one thing I was really disappointed with was Lampard's use of Havertz. I'm not the biggest Havertz fan either, but I still recognize him as a great talent. Playing him so out of position those first two matches didn't do him any favor.

For the bright spots: I thought their defensive plan and execution (outside of that one red card) has been really good so far.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Caballero made 9 saves today - in his last 5 matches Kepa has made 8 saves in total.

Fortunately, the Mendy deal is seemingly done; here's hoping he's available to play at the weekend.
 

Chief123

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Werner is not good at all against defensive teams. I've watched a ton of Leipzig games and everytime teams sit back deep, he's almost invisible. That's why he's also had it very hard in the German N11 so far.

He's good when he has a ton of space to make his runs and use his great speed, but outside of that he's really average at best in most other areas (first touch, technique, finishing, vision, decision making etc.), which really limits him a lot in those kind of games.

The one thing I was really disappointed with was Lampard's use of Havertz. I'm not the biggest Havertz fan either, but I still recognize him as a great talent. Playing him so out of position those first two matches didn't do him any favor.

For the bright spots: I thought their defensive plan and execution (outside of that one red card) has been really good so far.
I’ve seen Werner a number of times in Germany as well. Due to his speed and energy, he gives a false impression of a player that looks better than he is. He really is underwhelming a lot of the time.

I can very easily see Chelsea looking for another striker next summer. I honestly don’t see him as a solution.
 

Valencia Shin Crosses

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If United operated as efficiently as Chelsea do in the market we'd already be back in contention for titles by now.

It's supremely impressive how Chelsea manage to secure targets with little drama, as well as probably being the best selling club in the world in terms of getting value for players that are actually crap for them. Granted they did get a transfer ban so they are making up for that this summer, but there is no doubting there ability in targeting and acquiring players they like with little fuss. Very Bayern-esque. I'm incredibly jealous.
 

Chief123

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If United operated as efficiently as Chelsea do in the market we'd already be back in contention for titles by now.

It's supremely impressive how Chelsea manage to secure targets with little drama, as well as probably being the best selling club in the world in terms of getting value for players that are actually crap for them. Granted they did get a transfer ban so they are making up for that this summer, but there is no doubting there ability in targeting and acquiring players they like with little fuss. Very Bayern-esque. I'm incredibly jealous.
To be fair there was nothing challenging with some of their signings.

Werner - paid the release clause
Silva - free transfer
Havertz - paid a club record £75m (of which he’s looked nothing like that worth so far)
Chilwell - £50m taken to the cleaners
Mendy - just paid over the odds for him to panic replace Kepa who they paid £70m for.

I’d understand if they had actually got some great deals done, but only Ziyech is potentially a great bit of business.
 

Offside

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If United operated as efficiently as Chelsea do in the market we'd already be back in contention for titles by now.

It's supremely impressive how Chelsea manage to secure targets with little drama, as well as probably being the best selling club in the world in terms of getting value for players that are actually crap for them. Granted they did get a transfer ban so they are making up for that this summer, but there is no doubting there ability in targeting and acquiring players they like with little fuss. Very Bayern-esque. I'm incredibly jealous.
Not so sure. They could have a number of flops on their hands come the end of the season. Takes something for a team with so many new players to gel. Not convinced Fat Frank is the man to make that happen.
 

Mount's Goatieson

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To be fair there was nothing challenging with some of their signings.

Werner - paid the release clause
Silva - free transfer
Havertz - paid a club record £75m (of which he’s looked nothing like that worth so far)
Chilwell - £50m taken to the cleaners
Mendy - just paid over the odds for him to panic replace Kepa who they paid £70m for.

I’d understand if they had actually got some great deals done, but only Ziyech is potentially a great bit of business.
Mehn you work hard. Hopefully Sancho finally gets over the line for 120m. I'll be happy for you most :)
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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To be fair there was nothing challenging with some of their signings.

Werner - paid the release clause
Silva - free transfer
Havertz - paid a club record £75m (of which he’s looked nothing like that worth so far)
Chilwell - £50m taken to the cleaners
Mendy - just paid over the odds for him to panic replace Kepa who they paid £70m for.

I’d understand if they had actually got some great deals done, but only Ziyech is potentially a great bit of business.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
 

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Surely with the signing of the new keeper that means Frank's squad is complete for the season?

Chelsea fans, what are your expectations for the upcoming season? I would be expecting top three and a cup at a minimum. Anything below that I would consider a failure. Actually quite jealous.
 

AlwaysTheKop

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That’s for sure saved them a few points they would have guaranteed to have lost this season, I think they are in a decent position to finish 3rd or 4th now, especially when Pulisic is back, I think that’s when we’ll see what they are about.
 

Cheech Wizard

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Is this new keeper actually any good? Turns 29 in March, only played two seasons in Ligue 1 and capped by Senegal two years ago. Is he a late bloomer or is this more Chelsea putting faith in Cech’s judgement?
 

WeePat

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Is this new keeper actually any good? Turns 29 in March, only played two seasons in Ligue 1 and capped by Senegal two years ago. Is he a late bloomer or is this more Chelsea putting faith in Cech’s judgement?
I'd love to pretend to know the answer to that, but it's pure guess work, because before Chelsea were linked with him, I had never heard of him. Reading the opinions of people who follow French football however, it appears as though he's a late bloomer.

There was a story about how he had been released in his early 20's by some lower league club and after struggling to find another club, he was seen at the local job centre looking for regular work. A lower league club took a chance on him eventually, and it's a been a smooth ride to the top ever since. He helped Reims gain promotion to the top flight, and was snapped up by Rennes last summer, who he helped to a 3rd place and CL football. He's now been signed by Chelsea.
 

Mb194dc

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Surely will be Mendy and Willy as two keepers? Kepa has to be loaned out even if we have to pay his wages to do it.

No use having him rotting on the bench.

Last night 6-0 was like a pre season training match, some encouraging signs though and good to get Silva and Chilwell on the pitch.
 

Delano

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They're having a brilliant window. Put this in the other thread on Mendy:

Very good shot stopper. Decent with his feet.

But he's a puncher and a palmer (in saves and crosses) not a catcher. So it'll be interesting to see if he works on that, otherwise he'll be targeted on shots and crosses.

Great story though.
 

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They're having the sort of window we should be doing.
We did last Season. Their net spend is similar to ours last year. 223 mill out, 66 m received = 157 net loss in balance. This is factoring in their lack of movement last year (due to ban), they haven't actually gone that crazy. It just looks so because they have added 7 players.
The main difference is the fee. United like to spend the bulk of their transfer allocation on few players. Last year we did bring in 5 signings (including loan deals)
 

terraloo

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I’ve seen Werner a number of times in Germany as well. Due to his speed and energy, he gives a false impression of a player that looks better than he is. He really is underwhelming a lot of the time.

I can very easily see Chelsea looking for another striker next summer. I honestly don’t see him as a solution.
Must be one hellava impersonator to score in the numbers he achieved in Germany.

Far far too many make snap judgments about players without knowing any of the background and you clearly fit 100% into that category.

Remind me how things played out for Ronaldo in his first season ?
 

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Was reading they’ve made 27 signings this window. Can any other team even compete with that? Might be the craziest single team transfer window there has ever been. Big expectations on Frank now, for this money they should be beating Liverpool and everyone.
 

duffer

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Was reading they’ve made 27 signings this window. Can any other team even compete with that? Might be the craziest single team transfer window there has ever been. Big expectations on Frank now, for this money they should be beating Liverpool and everyone.
Lampard has spent about the same as Ole in their respective time at each club.