Chelsea 2022/2023 | THIS IS LAST YEARS THREAD YOU NUMPTIES

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TheMagicFoolBus

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What are you talking about? You sold Werner; Alonso left on the last day of the transfer window and Lukaku is still your player. Aubameyang is now not even in the CL squad. Why did Gran and Cech leave and Tuchel - didn't buy into the madness?

Before the winter, there was a brilliant plan by Boehly, there are spreadsheets showing how brilliantly Boehly had thought it all out by spreading the costs over x number of years and that there had to be a rebuild because you lost two CB's on frees.

Now there was no plan but the new plan is so brilliant. Moving the goalposts is very apt.
Werner and Alonso both pushed to leave...? Just because they left late in the window doesn't mean they didn't need replacing. Alonso had one foot out the door for more than a year - him leaving late in the window was purely down to Barcelona's dithering but he was obviously gone.

No one really knows why Granovskaia and Cech left but that was their prerogative. Tuchel was sacked because ownership found him difficult to work with and didn't think he was the right manager to develop young players.

Where are you getting your timeline from? How could everyone be talking about the costs being spread before the winter when we hadn't started buying players and putting them onto those deals en masse anyways? No one is moving any goalposts - if you just take a second to look at the data and consider the circumstances of who was doing what and when, it's blindingly obvious that our approaches are completely different between the summer and winter periods. I don't know why this even a point of contention.
 

Paul the Wolf

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Werner and Alonso both pushed to leave...? Just because they left late in the window doesn't mean they didn't need replacing. Alonso had one foot out the door for more than a year - him leaving late in the window was purely down to Barcelona's dithering but he was obviously gone.

No one really knows why Granovskaia and Cech left but that was their prerogative. Tuchel was sacked because ownership found him difficult to work with and didn't think he was the right manager to develop young players.

Where are you getting your timeline from? How could everyone be talking about the costs being spread before the winter when we hadn't started buying players and putting them onto those deals en masse anyways? No one is moving any goalposts - if you just take a second to look at the data and consider the circumstances of who was doing what and when, it's blindingly obvious that our approaches are completely different between the summer and winter periods. I don't know why this even a point of contention.
I'm not saying the approaches aren't different. What I was saying that before the winter people (non-Chelsea) pointed out that there seemed to be no plan (football wise) to what Boehly had done beforehand and people used such expressions as scattergun and random purchases which in effect is what you're saying they did actually do. In a normal club you'd replace the players that had left or were leaving, that is understandable.

Which means that the major part of your signings were made without thought. The winter window, now deemed sensible by Chelsea fans, still hasn't brought in a striker or a new keeper or really improved the team much at all unless Enzo proves to be a success, which may or may not happen.

You've spent over £600m for very little apart from numbers, who probably can't play because of lack of opportunities and you've still got a lot to sort out before becoming a threat again.

It's not because it's Chelsea. If United had done what Chelsea have done I'd be ranting and raving. We've had enough bad decisions to last us a lifetime.
 

Rnd898

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So there was no plan now (which is what we were saying before the winter) and Boehly spent what over £300m just for the sake of spending money on random players which was what everyone was saying. No wonder Tuchel and Boehly fell out.
You don't need to be a genius to recognize Tuchel had a heavy input in the summer signings.

Sterling was Tuchel's top target, as confirmed by the man himself:

"He was top of the list. He was the absolute number one for that position. I gave his name to Todd straight away, as we analysed the season, Todd and Behdad Eghbali, our owners, in the first week after the end of the season."

Koulibaly and Aubameyang were obvious Tuchel signings as well and were signed due to their vast experience.

Fofana and Cucurella signings are the question marks for me, and I'm not sure if they came specifically on Tuchel's request or whether they were just a result of Tuchel saying we need replacements for Alonso/Christensen and Boehly going after players with PL experience but no doubt Tuchel at the very least still gave the green light and okayed the players. Zakaria was signed on loan with no input from Tuchel, who is on record saying he didn't think our midfield needed any reinforcements but someone advised Boehly differently after Kante's long term injury.

The youngsters (Slonina, Chukwuemeka, Casadei, Hutchinson) were academy boss Neil Bath's recommendations and early signs of his growing influence within the club that later led to a promotion.

In hindsight buying Sterling, Koulibaly and Aubameyang based on Tuchel's request was probably not the greatest move now that he was sacked so early in the season but there's no denying Tuche's role into making these signings and how much those signings now stand out compared to the ones made in the January window. Since the bidding process of the takeover Boehly has been touting the idea of building a squad around young players and in that regard the Auba/Koulibaly/Sterling signigns made very little sense but they were most of all reactionary moves to fill some holes left by departures and at the time the current recruitment structure wasn't in place yet so Tuchel's opinion was the one that mattered most.

Why did Gran and Cech leave and Tuchel - didn't buy into the madness?
Marina was never going to stay long term, she was first and foremost an employee of Roman Abramovich going back years before he even bought the club. Marina and Roman first started working together in the 1990s in the gas industry and eventually she joined the Chelsea board as Abramovich's right hand woman. Petr Cech was a Marina hire and ended up following her out the door.

The initial idea was for them to stay at the club for the summer transfer window before being phased out and replaced by new sporting leadership (who were hired in October/November last year). Nobody really knows what happened behind the scenes that cause them to leave earlier than intended but there have been some reports that for example they had some differing opinions on what to do with Lukaku. Tuchel wanted him out and Lukaku wanted out as well but it's been said Marina and Cech would have preferred to see if things could still be patched up with him. It was Boehly who made the final decision that it's best to cut ties with Lukaku and chances are that didn't go down particularly well with Marina and Cech who were the ones who sanctioned a club record deal to sign him just a year earlier and loaning him out clearly undermined their roles within the club. That probably wasn't the only reason but it's all guesswork really (even the Lukaku bit which is based on some media reports but no actual quotes from anyone involved).
 
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TheMagicFoolBus

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I'm not saying the approaches aren't different. What I was saying that before the winter people (non-Chelsea) pointed out that there seemed to be no plan (football wise) to what Boehly had done beforehand and people used such expressions as scattergun and random purchases which in effect is what you're saying they did actually do. In a normal club you'd replace the players that had left or were leaving, that is understandable.

Which means that the major part of your signings were made without thought. The winter window, now deemed sensible by Chelsea fans, still hasn't brought in a striker or a new keeper or really improved the team much at all unless Enzo proves to be a success, which may or may not happen.

You've spent over £600m for very little apart from numbers, who probably can't play because of lack of opportunities and you've still got a lot to sort out before becoming a threat again.

It's not because it's Chelsea. If United had done what Chelsea have done I'd be ranting and raving. We've had enough bad decisions to last us a lifetime.
"Without thought" is a bit harsh but I think I understand where you're coming from and I agree to an extent - the priority was clearly to find replacements for the players who were leaving without properly assessing how they'd impact the team going forward.

I suppose as well we may have to agree to disagree about not improving the team much - Mudryk is a colossal upgrade over Pulisic on the left, Badiashile has already shown more in a month than Koulibaly did in the first half of the year, Felix and Madueke have already shown flashes of quality that the likes of Sterling and Ziyech barely have all season. I fundamentally disagree with you about the need for a striker and a goalkeeper - it's flown under the radar but Kepa has quietly been excellent this year, and his elite on-ball abilities are pretty fundamental to the way Potter has us set up. If we can go for Diogo Costa this summer then sure - but for me that isn't a position where immediate reinforcement was needed.

In terms of where we were badly lacking, basically our only good play from wide has been from James and Chilwell - and that clearly isn't sustainable given the extent to which they've been injured this year and in years past. Every time one or both are injured our form falls off a cliff - and that's because the likes of Sterling, Pulisic, and Ziyech have ranged from disappointing to horrendously unplayable. Mudryk and Madueke may not be able to reproduce their crazy dribbling and creative numbers given the step up in quality to the PL, but honestly the bar is so low if they are merely adequate that is a huge upgrade.
 

Paul the Wolf

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You don't need to be a genius to recognize Tuchel had a heavy input in the summer signings.

Sterling was Tuchel's top target, as confirmed by the man himself:

"He was top of the list. He was the absolute number one for that position. I gave his name to Todd straight away, as we analysed the season, Todd and Behdad Eghbali, our owners, in the first week after the end of the season."

Koulibaly and Aubameyang were obvious Tuchel signings as well and were signed due to their vast experience.

Fofana and Cucurella signings are the question marks for me, and I'm not sure if they came specifically on Tuchel's request or whether they were just a result of Tuchel saying we need replacements for Alonso/Christensen and Boehly going after players with PL experience but no doubt Tuchel at the very least still gave the green light and okayed the players. Zakaria was signed on loan with no input from Tuchel, who is on record saying he didn't think our midfield needed any reinforcements but someone advised Boehly differently after Kante's long term injury.

The youngsters (Slonina, Chukwuemeka, Casadei, Hutchinson) were academy boss Neil Bath's recommendations and early signs of his growing influence within the club that later led to a promotion.

In hindsight buying Sterling, Koulibaly and Aubameyang based on Tuchel's request was probably not the greatest move now that he was sacked so early in the season but there's no denying Tuche's role into making these signings and how much those signings now stand out compared to the ones made in the January window. Since the bidding process of the takeover Boehly has been touting the idea of building a squad around young players and in that regard the Auba/Koulibaly/Sterling signigns made very little sense but they were most of all reactionary moves to fill some holes left by departures and at the time the current recruitment structure wasn't in place yet so Tuchel's opinion was the one that mattered most.



Marina was never going to stay long term, she was first and foremost an employee of Roman Abramovich going back years before he even bought the club. Marina and Roman first started working together in the 1990s in the gas industry and eventually she joined the Chelsea board as Abramovich's right hand woman. Petr Cech was a Marina hire and ended up following her out the door.

The initial idea was for them to stay at the club for the summer transfer window before being phased out and replaced by new sporting leadership (who were hired in October/November last year). Nobody really knows what happened behind the scenes that cause them to leave earlier than intended but there have been some reports that for example they had some differing opinions on what to do with Lukaku. Tuchel wanted him out and Lukaku wanted out as well but it's been said Marina and Cech would have preferred to see if things could still be patched up with him. It was Boehly who made the final decision that it's best to cut ties with Lukaku and chances are that didn't go down particularly well with Marina and Cech who were the ones who sanctioned a club record deal to sign him just a year earlier and loaning him out clearly undermined their roles within the club. That probably wasn't the only reason but it's all guesswork really (even the Lukaku bit which is based on some media reports but no actual quotes from anyone involved).
I'd pretty much agree with what you say but I was also told on here that Boehly was behind a lot of the summer signings. Obviously Tuchel must have some input. Now after the winter signings you have Boehly signings, Bath signings, Potter signings and Tuchel signings.

Sorry to say it, but I don't see Potter lasting very long. Will there be another change of direction with a new manager and a whole new set of players to fit a new manager's required profile.

Appointing Moyes after Fergie, who was nowhere near the level required to manage a top club, set United back years, let alone those who followed.
 

Zaphod2319

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I was told over and over again that there was one clear strategy. Now there isn't. Spending all this money for an unproved manager who has only managed smallish clubs with a 31% win rate sounds even worse than us appointing Moyes to replace Fergie.

I'm not getting convinced.
I read this thread a lot. I have not seen this post about it is one strategy for both managers. I have read over and over that it was to try to fill the players leaving in the summer and it was very scatter gun, and this window was more about the recruiting team. Were you told in this thread? As far as Potter, we will see. I don't expect Man Utd fans to ever be enthusiastic about an opponent team, but we can at least discuss these things like grown men.
 

Paul the Wolf

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I read this thread a lot. I have not seen this post about it is one strategy for both managers. I have read over and over that it was to try to fill the players leaving in the summer and it was very scatter gun, and this window was more about the recruiting team. Were you told in this thread? As far as Potter, we will see. I don't expect Man Utd fans to ever be enthusiastic about an opponent team, but we can at least discuss these things like grown men.
As I said it's nothing to do with the rivalry between the clubs - my comments are my opinion about the process Chelsea have adopted. I don't agree with it and I wouldn't want it for United.
Quite willing to discuss it sensibly. Some of your fellow fans on here are not so sensible.

I don't rate Potter for whichever club he managed and certainly wouldn't want him here.
 

Bwuk

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"Without thought" is a bit harsh but I think I understand where you're coming from and I agree to an extent - the priority was clearly to find replacements for the players who were leaving without properly assessing how they'd impact the team going forward.

I suppose as well we may have to agree to disagree about not improving the team much - Mudryk is a colossal upgrade over Pulisic on the left, Badiashile has already shown more in a month than Koulibaly did in the first half of the year, Felix and Madueke have already shown flashes of quality that the likes of Sterling and Ziyech barely have all season. I fundamentally disagree with you about the need for a striker and a goalkeeper - it's flown under the radar but Kepa has quietly been excellent this year, and his elite on-ball abilities are pretty fundamental to the way Potter has us set up. If we can go for Diogo Costa this summer then sure - but for me that isn't a position where immediate reinforcement was needed.

In terms of where we were badly lacking, basically our only good play from wide has been from James and Chilwell - and that clearly isn't sustainable given the extent to which they've been injured this year and in years past. Every time one or both are injured our form falls off a cliff - and that's because the likes of Sterling, Pulisic, and Ziyech have ranged from disappointing to horrendously unplayable. Mudryk and Madueke may not be able to reproduce their crazy dribbling and creative numbers given the step up in quality to the PL, but honestly the bar is so low if they are merely adequate that is a huge upgrade.
Based off what?
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Based off what?
Well, the fact that Mudryk can run fast without injuring himself for a start!

But in all seriousness, the main thing that we have prioritised in our recruitment is players who can create shots for themselves and others thanks to their quality 1v1 - Sterling for instance has always relied upon chances being created for him. The half season of Pulisic we got post-COVID restart was this sort of player - then he did his hamstring in the FA Cup final, picked up two or three further injuries, and has never been the same. Ziyech can create only via inswinging crosses from the right - he's been very bad at short passing and in tight areas as he just gets bullied off the ball plus lacks acceleration to get past anyone.
 

Rajiztar

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As I said it's nothing to do with the rivalry between the clubs - my comments are my opinion about the process Chelsea have adopted. I don't agree with it and I wouldn't want it for United.
Quite willing to discuss it sensibly. Some of your fellow fans on here are not so sensible.

I don't rate Potter for whichever club he managed and certainly wouldn't want him here.
Yes I understood you don't rate Potter same as most chelsea fans including me. But even then our owners wanted to give fair chance with fully fit squad. We were criticised for what we did opposite under Roman now our appraoch changed.

Believe me I was angry when tuchel was sacked and called the new owners clueless in this site itself. It's their new approach backed struggling manager have to wait how this will go.

New signings are done by our technical team including vivell and former Brighton people.
 

WeePat

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As I said it's nothing to do with the rivalry between the clubs - my comments are my opinion about the process Chelsea have adopted. I don't agree with it and I wouldn't want it for United.
Quite willing to discuss it sensibly. Some of your fellow fans on here are not so sensible.

I don't rate Potter for whichever club he managed and certainly wouldn't want him here.
I appreciate what you're saying and the cordial way you have handled multiple posters responding to you at the same time. I think it's completely fair enough, having all the information, that you still think it's a bad or haphazard strategy. For me, looking back, I kind of wish we had been more lowkey in the summer when it was Tuchel and Boehly tag teaming through the window and just waited until they had the football operations structure in place before sanctioning the spend of hundred of millions but of course there was the immediate problem of having to replace multiple outgoing players (not just Rudiger and Christensen).

It's all in the past now of course, the money has been spent and we have the team we have, so for me it's about whether Potter can work with this expensively assembled team and create a unified team that is coherent and in sync on the pitch.
 

Rnd898

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I fundamentally disagree with you about the need for a striker and a goalkeeper - it's flown under the radar but Kepa has quietly been excellent this year, and his elite on-ball abilities are pretty fundamental to the way Potter has us set up. If we can go for Diogo Costa this summer then sure - but for me that isn't a position where immediate reinforcement was needed.
Kepa has done allright but I wouldn't say excellent because he's still shown to be prone to the occasional brain farts that have led to goals and his aerial commanding of the penalty box is still lacking.

Definitely much better than the Kepa of 2019-2020 either way and I too don't think GK is currently an area of desperate need. Like you said, if an opportunity to improve the position presents itself (not sure about Diogo Costa though) and more importantly if we can sell either Kepa or Mendy for a reasonable fee it's definitely something to consider in the summer but I would be content sticking with the current lot for next season and think about the GK position again in the summer of 2024.

As for the striker position something definitely needs to be done about it. Last summer there was a genuine lack of top strikers on the market which is why we went for a stop-gap in Aubameyang instead, to horrendous results. Now Nkunku is coming in the summer and there's a possibility Felix will be bought on a permanent deal but neither of them are actual strikers but rather players who would benefit most from playing with a proper number 9 leading the line so it's interesting to see which direction we're going to go. Of course it's possible we'll look to play without an out-and-out striker which is how some of the top teams play these days. If we get Felix then that kind of sorts the decision out and we'll probably look to play a duo of Nkunku/Felix but it's also possible we'll go after someone like Vlahovic instead and send Felix back to Atleti. Will of course also depend on how Felix does from now till the end of the season, and also how outrageous Atletico's price for him would be.

I'd pretty much agree with what you say but I was also told on here that Boehly was behind a lot of the summer signings. Obviously Tuchel must have some input. Now after the winter signings you have Boehly signings, Bath signings, Potter signings and Tuchel signings.

Sorry to say it, but I don't see Potter lasting very long. Will there be another change of direction with a new manager and a whole new set of players to fit a new manager's required profile.

Appointing Moyes after Fergie, who was nowhere near the level required to manage a top club, set United back years, let alone those who followed.
These so called Boehly/Potter/Bath signings represent a very similar profile though in that almost all of them are aged 18-23 and are highly technical players with good physical attributes. It's not too difficult to imagine these kind of players clicking together as a team but that all remains to be seen as so far the sampling size is still very small for all the players brought in over the last month.

And yes, there remains some serious question marks over Potter's suitability in managing a top team. So far it's not looked great at all but personally I will reserve my judgement till I've seen what he can really do with the group of players brought in January as well as having gotten some reinforcements from the injured lot. Going from the squad who were playing in October-January to having the likes of James, Chilwell, Fofana, Badiashile, Enzo, Kante, Madueke, Felix and Mudryk all fit and available for selection has the potential to make a huge difference in how Potter can set up the team. That's a keeper and a midfielder away from a whole starting XI of players who have only just arrived or are only just returning from long term injuries.

It will still take time for these players to gel but at the very least we should start seeing how Potter actually wants the team to play and our results and more importantly the performances will need to start improving or there's really no reason to justify Potter continuing his work. I still wouldn't expect any immediate fireworks and turning from mid-table to title contender form overnight with these new and returning players available but the minimum requirement is starting to show a bit of Potter's identity in the team and that there is some clear room for growth once the players start getting more familiar with each other on the pitch and for the new players settling into life at the PL. If it's still just as shit at the end of the season then a managerial change in the summer will clearly be needed but I wouldn't make any such declaration so hastily before actually seeing how he does with having close to the full squad at his disposal for a period of time.

If it turns out Potter isn't the right man to lead the team, the sporting leaders at the club just need to ensure they go for another coach who prefers the type of players we've brought in. Under the Abramovich regime this was one of my main quirks about how the club was run. In the span of just 4-5 years we went from one absolute to another when changing the manager from Conte to Sarri to Lampard to Tuchel and each manager had their own set of principles on how they want the team to play and what kind of players they need to achieve it. One plays three at the back with fast transitions, another wants a possession-based game with a back-4 and so on. As a result our squad has for years been a mix-and-match of players brought in under many different managers and that's definitely not the way to get the best performances out of individual players. Like you said it was very similar at United for many years as well and for example there were not many similarities between LVG/Mourinho/Ole in how they wanted to play and what type of players they preferred.

That's an area where an improvement over the last ownership regime is desperately needed and now it's just up to the directors (Vivell/Winstanley/Stewart) to make sure there is a clear continuation whenever a change in manager is needed and that the days of just picking the most high profile managerial name out of the ones available is over. Whether this idea will actually materialize or not remains to be seen when replacing Potter becomes a topic of discussion within the club but for now his job seems to be safe and the club want to see how he does now that the squad rebuild has properly started before making any decisions about his future.
 
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WeePat

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Still can't believe we're only paying him £110k per week.
What is crazy is that we get to enjoy 4 seasons of Thiago Silva at Chelsea. He's already surpassed 100 games for Chelsea which is insane considering we signed him as a stop gap for free at the age of 36. Insane fitness levels to be doing this at his age. He'll be approaching 40 when his next contract expires and I honestly hope he comes back to us post retirement in some kind of coaching capacity.
 

Zaphod2319

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What is crazy is that we get to enjoy 4 seasons of Thiago Silva at Chelsea. He's already surpassed 100 games for Chelsea which is insane considering we signed him as a stop gap for free at the age of 36. Insane fitness levels to be doing this at his age. He'll be approaching 40 when his next contract expires and I honestly hope he comes back to us post retirement in some kind of coaching capacity.
I hope the same. With his son in the academy and his wife loving London, I think we have a chance of that happening.
 

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I appreciate what you're saying and the cordial way you have handled multiple posters responding to you at the same time. I think it's completely fair enough, having all the information, that you still think it's a bad or haphazard strategy. For me, looking back, I kind of wish we had been more lowkey in the summer when it was Tuchel and Boehly tag teaming through the window and just waited until they had the football operations structure in place before sanctioning the spend of hundred of millions but of course there was the immediate problem of having to replace multiple outgoing players (not just Rudiger and Christensen).

It's all in the past now of course, the money has been spent and we have the team we have, so for me it's about whether Potter can work with this expensively assembled team and create a unified team that is coherent and in sync on the pitch.
Would echo this as well - genuinely have enjoyed having a conversation with you, @Paul the Wolf
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Kepa has done allright but I wouldn't say excellent because he's still shown to be prone to the occasional brain farts that have led to goals and his aerial commanding of the penalty box is still lacking.

Definitely much better than the Kepa of 2019-2020 either way and I too don't think GK is currently an area of desperate need. Like you said, if an opportunity to improve the position presents itself (not sure about Diogo Costa though) and more importantly if we can sell either Kepa or Mendy for a reasonable fee it's definitely something to consider in the summer but I would be content sticking with the current lot for next season and think about the GK position again in the summer of 2024.

As for the striker position something definitely needs to be done about it. Last summer there was a genuine lack of top strikers on the market which is why we went for a stop-gap in Aubameyang instead, to horrendous results. Now Nkunku is coming in the summer and there's a possibility Felix will be bought on a permanent deal but neither of them are actual strikers but rather players who would benefit most from playing with a proper number 9 leading the line so it's interesting to see which direction we're going to go. Of course it's possible we'll look to play without an out-and-out striker which is how some of the top teams play these days. If we get Felix then that kind of sorts the decision out and we'll probably look to play a duo of Nkunku/Felix but it's also possible we'll go after someone like Vlahovic instead and send Felix back to Atleti. Will of course also depend on how Felix does from now till the end of the season, and also how outrageous Atletico's price for him would be.
True that he's still poor in terms of command of the box - but I think his ability on the ball is overlooked at times and is hugely valuable. Like I said, the guy I'd be willing to push for is Diogo Costa from Porto - think he ticks all the boxes, but for me there are more pressing issues.

In terms of the striker position I agree that a long-term solution is probably needed (unless Broja and Fofana go up several levels) - I just meant that during the winter I'm glad we prioritised creativity from the wide areas. Strikers are inherently more difficult to purchase in the winter anyway - and honestly I don't mind giving Havertz one last run out now that he has runners around him. I don't think it's a coincidence that Havertz's best form coincided with Werner playing well without scoring - the space that the latter created was key. Hopefully Mudryk and Madueke can do something similar - because for me when Havertz has had license to try to play in the space between opposition defense and midfield he's been at his best for us.
 

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I appreciate what you're saying and the cordial way you have handled multiple posters responding to you at the same time. I think it's completely fair enough, having all the information, that you still think it's a bad or haphazard strategy. For me, looking back, I kind of wish we had been more lowkey in the summer when it was Tuchel and Boehly tag teaming through the window and just waited until they had the football operations structure in place before sanctioning the spend of hundred of millions but of course there was the immediate problem of having to replace multiple outgoing players (not just Rudiger and Christensen).

It's all in the past now of course, the money has been spent and we have the team we have, so for me it's about whether Potter can work with this expensively assembled team and create a unified team that is coherent and in sync on the pitch.
Would echo this as well - genuinely have enjoyed having a conversation with you, @Paul the Wolf
Cheers to both.
 

Rnd898

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Would echo this as well - genuinely have enjoyed having a conversation with you, @Paul the Wolf
Yep, same. Discusssions like the one with @Paul the Wolf are why I come to this forum. Much more interesting to get thoughts from someone 'on the outside' than just talking with people who share the same opinions as I do. As long as the discussion is done constructively and not just silly one-liners between rivals shouting how shit the other team are, of course.

In terms of the striker position I agree that a long-term solution is probably needed (unless Broja and Fofana go up several levels) - I just meant that during the winter I'm glad we prioritised creativity from the wide areas. Strikers are inherently more difficult to purchase in the winter anyway
Oh yes, definitely. I also don't think it's a great idea to bring in a striker without first getting the rest of the house in order because he'd just end up struggling for confidence sooner or later anyway. If we get the rest of the team functioning well as a unit and start creating consistent goalscoring chances, it's much easier to fix the striker position too and there's a lot more potential for whoever comes in to be a big success rather than just throwing another expensive striker straight into a struggling team and expecting them to work mircales.
 

Suedesi

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You don't need to be a genius to recognize Tuchel had a heavy input in the summer signings.

Sterling was Tuchel's top target, as confirmed by the man himself:

"He was top of the list. He was the absolute number one for that position. I gave his name to Todd straight away, as we analysed the season, Todd and Behdad Eghbali, our owners, in the first week after the end of the season."

Koulibaly and Aubameyang were obvious Tuchel signings as well and were signed due to their vast experience.

Fofana and Cucurella signings are the question marks for me, and I'm not sure if they came specifically on Tuchel's request or whether they were just a result of Tuchel saying we need replacements for Alonso/Christensen and Boehly going after players with PL experience but no doubt Tuchel at the very least still gave the green light and okayed the players. Zakaria was signed on loan with no input from Tuchel, who is on record saying he didn't think our midfield needed any reinforcements but someone advised Boehly differently after Kante's long term injury.

The youngsters (Slonina, Chukwuemeka, Casadei, Hutchinson) were academy boss Neil Bath's recommendations and early signs of his growing influence within the club that later led to a promotion.

In hindsight buying Sterling, Koulibaly and Aubameyang based on Tuchel's request was probably not the greatest move now that he was sacked so early in the season but there's no denying Tuche's role into making these signings and how much those signings now stand out compared to the ones made in the January window. Since the bidding process of the takeover Boehly has been touting the idea of building a squad around young players and in that regard the Auba/Koulibaly/Sterling signigns made very little sense but they were most of all reactionary moves to fill some holes left by departures and at the time the current recruitment structure wasn't in place yet so Tuchel's opinion was the one that mattered most.



Marina was never going to stay long term, she was first and foremost an employee of Roman Abramovich going back years before he even bought the club. Marina and Roman first started working together in the 1990s in the gas industry and eventually she joined the Chelsea board as Abramovich's right hand woman. Petr Cech was a Marina hire and ended up following her out the door.

The initial idea was for them to stay at the club for the summer transfer window before being phased out and replaced by new sporting leadership (who were hired in October/November last year). Nobody really knows what happened behind the scenes that cause them to leave earlier than intended but there have been some reports that for example they had some differing opinions on what to do with Lukaku. Tuchel wanted him out and Lukaku wanted out as well but it's been said Marina and Cech would have preferred to see if things could still be patched up with him. It was Boehly who made the final decision that it's best to cut ties with Lukaku and chances are that didn't go down particularly well with Marina and Cech who were the ones who sanctioned a club record deal to sign him just a year earlier and loaning him out clearly undermined their roles within the club. That probably wasn't the only reason but it's all guesswork really (even the Lukaku bit which is based on some media reports but no actual quotes from anyone involved).
I wouldn't call Aubameyang a Tuchel signing. For once he wasn't signed until deadline day and Tuchel was fired a few days after. The decision to have Tuchel fired was taken well in advance of the Dinamo defeat, so it makes little sense to say that Boehly brought in a striker Tuchel wanted whilst deciding to fire him.

In reality, Chelsea went after Nkunku who signed a new deal with Red Bull, after Lewandowski who was set at joining Barca, after Ronaldo who Tuchel said no, and after Leao who Milan declined to sell. PEA came about after discussions with Barca (remember Boehly was dining with Laporta often as the clubs were discussing [Irrelevant point] and Azpilicuetta). Also PEA wasn't keen on moving, until the house robbery that changed his mind. So I wouldn't really blame Tuchel on that one.

Anyways, back to Boehly and his 4-4-3 formation.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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I wouldn't call Aubameyang a Tuchel signing. For once he wasn't signed until deadline day and Tuchel was fired a few days after. The decision to have Tuchel fired was taken well in advance of the Dinamo defeat, so it makes little sense to say that Boehly brought in a striker Tuchel wanted whilst deciding to fire him.

In reality, Chelsea went after Nkunku who signed a new deal with Red Bull, after Lewandowski who was set at joining Barca, after Ronaldo who Tuchel said no, and after Leao who Milan declined to sell. PEA came about after discussions with Barca (remember Boehly was dining with Laporta often as the clubs were discussing [Irrelevant point] and Azpilicuetta). Also PEA wasn't keen on moving, until the house robbery that changed his mind. So I wouldn't really blame Tuchel on that one.

Anyways, back to Boehly and his 4-4-3 formation.
*pushes glasses up nose*

Well actually if you look at Kepa's average position he's much closer to the defensive line so that combined with Enzo dropping deep and the fullbacks pushing up means the 4-4-3 is actually what we're doing and that gives us an overload on the wings whilst retaining numerical superiority in the centre and also this gives our 8s freedom to drop deep or push on as needed depending on the positioning of our false 9 whilst retaining a core diamond at the base of our buildup structure for beating opposition pressing systems whilst facilitating counter-pressing and in possession we ensure that Enzo has both clear passing channels to move the ball vertically into the final third but also options to recycle possession as needed

TL;DR - educate yourselves on how SOCCER works
 

Rajiztar

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*pushes glasses up nose*

Well actually if you look at Kepa's average position he's much closer to the defensive line so that combined with Enzo dropping deep and the fullbacks pushing up means the 4-4-3 is actually what we're doing and that gives us an overload on the wings whilst retaining numerical superiority in the centre and also this gives our 8s freedom to drop deep or push on as needed depending on the positioning of our false 9 whilst retaining a core diamond at the base of our buildup structure for beating opposition pressing systems whilst facilitating counter-pressing and in possession we ensure that Enzo has both clear passing channels to move the ball vertically into the final third but also options to recycle possession as needed

TL;DR - educate yourselves on how SOCCER works
Looking forward to see it but most probably pep will implement when he over thinks.:lol:
 

WeePat

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It's okay mate, your post speaks for itself - completely valid, fair and struck the right note. No need to preface it with 'coming in peace' ;-)
Yeah just say what you need to say. We're oppo fans together on this forum. No need to come in peace as an Arsenal fan in a Chelsea thread on a United forum, though I appreciate the thought :lol:
 

Rnd898

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I wouldn't call Aubameyang a Tuchel signing. For once he wasn't signed until deadline day and Tuchel was fired a few days after. The decision to have Tuchel fired was taken well in advance of the Dinamo defeat, so it makes little sense to say that Boehly brought in a striker Tuchel wanted whilst deciding to fire him.

In reality, Chelsea went after Nkunku who signed a new deal with Red Bull, after Lewandowski who was set at joining Barca, after Ronaldo who Tuchel said no, and after Leao who Milan declined to sell. PEA came about after discussions with Barca (remember Boehly was dining with Laporta often as the clubs were discussing [Irrelevant point] and Azpilicuetta). Also PEA wasn't keen on moving, until the house robbery that changed his mind. So I wouldn't really blame Tuchel on that one.
Of course he was most of all a Tuchel signing. Don't forget Tuchel had history with Aubameyang at Dortmund too and prior to the deal being concluded even referred to Aubameyang in the media as 'his player' because of the excellent relationship they had together.

He obviously wasn't the first choice and like you said the club were after Nkunku and Leao, both of whom proved impossible to do in the summer of 2022, and also sounded out Lewandowski's interest before he went to Barca but once those options were all out of the question and the market for top strikers proved very problematic they went after Aubameyang as a stop-gap instead.

Despite not being completed until deadline day the Aubameyang transfer was very much on the cards since early August. The main reason the deal took so long to complete was because Barcelona's asking price at first was even more ridiculous than the amount we ended up paying for him in the end, and the [Irrelevant point] transfer was included in the negotiations as well so there were a lot of moving parts involved. Contract negotiations took some time as well with Auba initially demanding a three year deal before finally agreeing to the two year offer on the table, and the house robbery you mentioned having just happened and him not getting to play in the early Barca matches probably made that decision all the more easier for him.

Though it also has to be noted that after Tuchel's sacking it was reported that while his departure was already being planned around the time the window closed, Boehly during the negotiations in August had become convinced Auba would be a decent signing in the short term with or without Tuchel and thus went ahead with the deal anyway. The reason we went after him in the first place was because of Tuchel but yeah, it was Boehly who finally decided to pull the trigger even after already deciding Tuchel would be gone so the fault lies with them both for this disaster of a signing.
 

MayosNoun

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Santos work permit still not approved yet?

I hope we keep Zakaria for next season.
 

mav_9me

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Kepa has done allright but I wouldn't say excellent because he's still shown to be prone to the occasional brain farts that have led to goals and his aerial commanding of the penalty box is still lacking.

Definitely much better than the Kepa of 2019-2020 either way and I too don't think GK is currently an area of desperate need. Like you said, if an opportunity to improve the position presents itself (not sure about Diogo Costa though) and more importantly if we can sell either Kepa or Mendy for a reasonable fee it's definitely something to consider in the summer but I would be content sticking with the current lot for next season and think about the GK position again in the summer of 2024.
You should look at the 3rd chart here


Both Kepa and Allison have saved 8 goals over expectation.

On a side note imagine where Chelsea and Liverpool would be without them.
 

slored1

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Thought they looked decent today for the first time in a while. Unlucky not to get the pen and pretty good going forward.
 

Nick.

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All that money counts for nothing if the coach isn't up to standard
 

WeePat

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Thought they looked decent today for the first time in a while. Unlucky not to get the pen and pretty good going forward.
We looked great in parts. The quality isn’t in question. It really just comes down consistency and Potter getting the team to gel. I was pretty happy with what I saw today.
 

bosnian_red

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Enzo class, Mudryk will take time to get used to the league, Madueke whatever, no striker, badiashlie looks decent however partnering Thiago Silva, time will tell how he does when Silva moves on. Potter is whatever, don't think he has it for Chelsea though maybe harsh and early to make that judgment. I'd be more worried about Chelsea with Luis Enrique though.
 

cyberman

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It reminds me of our play when teams adjusted to us mid game under Oles bad days.
Good start, team adjusts by cutting off space and we panic by trying our over the top balls to Rashford from stupid angles thus forgetting what we were doing well in the first place.
I honestly believe Chelsea wins that if they subbed off James. Lazy balls out side for James to spam in crosses to two strikers who can’t head a ball. Let’s try that again, see what happens
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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It reminds me of our play when teams adjusted to us mid game under Oles bad days.
Good start, team adjusts by cutting off space and we panic by trying our over the top balls to Rashford from stupid angles thus forgetting what we were doing well in the first place.
I honestly believe Chelsea wins that if they subbed off James. Lazy balls out side for James to spam in crosses to two strikers who can’t head a ball. Let’s try that again, see what happens
Yeah I actually thought we were better when James came infield - he had that lovely through ball to Mount from a deeper area. A couple of his deliveries were nice but as you say there were no targets in the area.

Don't know why we brought on Ziyech - literally all he does is hit inswinging crosses. Would have preferred to bring on Fofana and have Havertz play from wider.
 

Djemba-Djemba

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Thought they looked really good for the first 25 minutes then gradually faded and looked toothless.

4 wins in 17 games I think I saw.

Oof.
 

TheMagicFoolBus

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Enzo class, Mudryk will take time to get used to the league, Madueke whatever, no striker, badiashlie looks decent however partnering Thiago Silva, time will tell how he does when Silva moves on. Potter is whatever, don't think he has it for Chelsea though maybe harsh and early to make that judgment. I'd be more worried about Chelsea with Luis Enrique though.
Don't disagree with much of that. Only thing I'd say is Madueke's ball retention was encouraging for the most part - but he still looks like he's playing tentatively.

Mudryk is suffering from Cucurella being so shit. Badiashile as well is having to do a lot to cover and has been mightily impressive I'd say - but yes he's definitely benefiting from Silva's ability to organise a defense.
 
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