I disagree. This is the worst possible time for this to break from the POV of city. Also McElroy quitting over Saudi influence, it all creates a bad vibe politically at a time when maybe people were hoping sportswashing concerns might fade from the front pages.
Chelsea face new questions over how Roman Abramovich funded success
- Thread starter UnitedSofa
- Start date
I disagree actually. If Chelsea have been doing it, then City most certainly have been as well. (the bits around indirect payments from company-a to company-b and not City to some football club)
Yeah surely this is good for those who want to see these clubs punished.
What kind of clauses are you talking about? To do what?
Saying this repeatedly doesn't make it true. They were (and are, in the case of Everton) awfully run. Leeds had a few runs in Europe but they were horribly run and then didn't escape the drop. Revenues from a few CL group stage games won't help you kick on to challenge for major trophies. If City/Chelsea wouldn't be where they are without a major injection of funds (this is true), the converse is also true: you aren't winning without a major injection of funds. And no that doesn't happen with a few runs in Europe.
Forget about United under Fergie. Look at United after Fergie. That we could still compete for trophies and hang close and qualify for Europe most years despite the SNAFU at all levels of management... THAT is a cockblock. Arsenal rebounding rapidly after the decade in the wilderness, bypassing teams that actually put the hard work in, THAT is a cockblock. I agree Chelsea and City are cockblocks as well. And yes if they get strung up on stupid rules then that's fine they know what they were doing. But they're not the sole cockblocks preventing other teams in the league from success. That narrative is lazy.
Obviously Chelsea have done the same as City.. Will anything be done?? Imo no same as City do the Premier league and FA want transparency in clubs or do they want there Cash cow .. do they want another ESL to raise its head again.. if FA dock Chelsea points then what do they do to City.. ?
Nah! Give Chelsea a huge fine and use the proceeds to give massive bonuses to the officials and VAR technicians. They have been doing a bang up job!
Huh?
I’m not sure where you would get that from these stories.
Not even sure what they did was illegal at the time they did it. Half the time they invent new rules just because of Chelsea. People are always telling me “Like when Chelsea broke the player loan rules” … but we didn’t, they made rules because of a loophole we showed them.
Not sure how giving extra money to CSKA Moscow (wasn’t his son involved with them?) is in the realm of under the table payments to beat teams to players and coaches.
And to those wondering: I believe there were provisions in the sale related to the club starting with a clean slate. What they are still negotiating is actually extra allowances owed to Chelsea for the FAs extreme reaction affecting the stability of the club at a deep level.
Almost all of City’s major charges revolve around lying to the FA about events as well. Clearlake is opening up everything with a super deep dive, making every attempt to actually help the FA. On fan forums that may not matter, but in the real world it’s a pretty substantial difference.
They can stuff it, stop fiddling and get FC115 on the block.
What does it matter. The extreme consequences is 12 points deducted and a fine. That's a minor inconvenience. What will Newcastle and other clubs do? Fudge the books and become successful in 2,3 years with a small risk of a 12 point fine or do it legitimately over 6-10 years plus.
Agree with this sentiment, if Chelsea and more so City are to be punsihed, then do it properly, titles lost, relegated, etc. The last thing I want is a points deduction that is going to do very little longterm, and some token fine.
This will just allow their fans to shut everyone down by saying they have been fully punished and that's the end of it.
The punishment has to fit the crime or it's not worth it.
That wasn’t a joke.
City and Chelsea should just be torn down and any titles they won given to whoever came 2nd.
Also the semi final in 2009 between them and Barca - who is worse, Roman's dirty money or Barca paying off refs?
Also the semi final in 2009 between them and Barca - who is worse, Roman's dirty money or Barca paying off refs?
Most Chelsea and City fans seem to have no idea their clubs cheated to all their titles, so they are as happy as a legit clubs fans would be!
Then even worse, given that it's not true when you're not on the Caf
What?
I think an abundance of people would agree football would be better off if Chelsea and Man City were shut down and sold for parts.
Once Chelsea and City get their points deductions, this will be how the record books read it.Retrospective point deduction for 2009/10 season, United first English club to win 5 titles on the trot
Manchester United:
2005-06, 2006-07, 2007-08, 2008-09, 2009-10, 2010-11, 2011-12, 2012-13.
Ah nothing like faux outrage at things that were blatantly obvious in 2006.
Football is a cesspool currently, I doubt anything substantial will come from this - feck all will be done.
However both Chelsea and City should punished removed from the football association. As well as any other club that has taken this route.
Football is a cesspool currently, I doubt anything substantial will come from this - feck all will be done.
However both Chelsea and City should punished removed from the football association. As well as any other club that has taken this route.
I was always shocked how well he was recieved in UK. I am from ex comunist country and I know how people like him came to money.
Usually buying public companies for 1-100 euros then selling their assets to other countries, and leaving thousands people without jobs and pensions. Fecking criminals.
Usually buying public companies for 1-100 euros then selling their assets to other countries, and leaving thousands people without jobs and pensions. Fecking criminals.
Isn't Liverpool supposed to be 3, not 4?
All state funded and oil clubs are doing it. You’re naive if you think Newcastle aren’t currently doing it either. For them, it’s a cheap and easy way to move expenses off their books.
Chelsea fans should be made to go around the neighbourhood and knock on doors informing people they are Chelsea fans.
I wouldn't want one in my area.
I wouldn't want one in my area.
Paying extra for Bertrand Traore IS a travesty.
So this lists …$7m in payments, over 12 years, most of those years not being covered by FFP or regulatory that would have made them necessary to bypass anything … they don’t know for sure if they were reported, they have no direct links to the money going to the people they are implying the money went to like they do in City’s emails … and most of this was self reported already (the Cyprus stuff is coming from Clearlake) by a company that had a clean slate agreement in place after the club they were purchasing was forced to void almost all revenue and lost many core players in a lockdown arbitration specialists have already deemed extreme?
Got it.
The Conte one would be interesting if you had the kind of evidence you do against City, because it would actually be within a relevant timeline. But there are no direct ties, or moronic emails detailing who the money is going to. They are just unknowns on paper that you would have trouble actually getting info on because Roman no longer owns the team.
I think including Robben, Ivanović and others though … why? I mean, couldn’t Roman have simply bought Robben an entire super yacht back then without reprocussion? Back when the PL hadnt thought of pretending to be allergic to money?
So this lists …$7m in payments, over 12 years, most of those years not being covered by FFP or regulatory that would have made them necessary to bypass anything … they don’t know for sure if they were reported, they have no direct links to the money going to the people they are implying the money went to like they do in City’s emails … and most of this was self reported already (the Cyprus stuff is coming from Clearlake) by a company that had a clean slate agreement in place after the club they were purchasing was forced to void almost all revenue and lost many core players in a lockdown arbitration specialists have already deemed extreme?
Got it.
The Conte one would be interesting if you had the kind of evidence you do against City, because it would actually be within a relevant timeline. But there are no direct ties, or moronic emails detailing who the money is going to. They are just unknowns on paper that you would have trouble actually getting info on because Roman no longer owns the team.
I think including Robben, Ivanović and others though … why? I mean, couldn’t Roman have simply bought Robben an entire super yacht back then without reprocussion? Back when the PL hadnt thought of pretending to be allergic to money?
"Chelsea, how did Roman fund you to success?"
Chelsea: "He followed Andy Tate before it was uncool"
Chelsea: "He followed Andy Tate before it was uncool"
Sorry, but the program he received his shares under was called “Shock therapy” and it was introduced by Americans primarily. Yeltsin was losing his grip on how to privatize over time, and agencies including the CIA, said there were at least 3 movements to return Russia to hard line communism if something extreme wasn’t done quickly.
Pensions were not a financially backed thing at that point, assets could not remain state controlled, and extreme inflation was already rampant and something these programs were designed to fight. The weakness is they couldn’t put other regulatory structures in place at the same speed… and the efforts needed more protection.
People can argue the merits of Shock Therapy, and Putin has basically forced most of the privatized assets to be re-sold to the state over two dr ares after taking down Yeltsin (including Abramovich btw) … but the program they acquired their assets through was legal and monitored.
Oh my God this guy again.
Wow.
Yep, that’s me. Mr actual information.
I get bothered by these posts that imply a few people “stole” money that rightfully belonged to all citizens … without understanding any of the historical context or intricacies of the situation.
“Belonging to all Russians” = socialism and communism… which they were again trying to break the foothold of.
The Shock therapy system on deciding how to Lend for sale resources was designed by Western Democracies, and done through legal programs. What happened to those people, and how they were forced to sell later, different story. Without it, one of three groups would have reformed the USSR within 5 years. That s the conclusion of every competent intelligence network in the planet.
You can blame Putin for tearing it all down through coercion and direct threats. But criticizing Russians who took advantage of the program WE asked them to use in the beginning is hypocritical.
It’s like I was pointing out with Navalny: when he says Kleptocracy, he means people weren’t adhering to purist Socialism, not free market democracy. He is a hard line communist, not some laureate for free will of the people. But younger people these days seem to have no grasp of this at all. They revere him.
And the company that created nearly 75k jobs in 20 countries, and some of the first functional solar furnaces for conservation of metals and energy … they are the bad guys.
Honestly, don't bother - or if you do, just check his post history from the moment the sanctions against Russia started and there were ramblings about Abramovic. But I warn you, it's quite a ride.
Obviously there's been some dodgy dealings there but the whole football agent business seems very unregulated and therefore ripe for under-the-table payments.
Since the agents aren't actually employed by the clubs it's probably very easy to abuse the system, whether it's to keep parts of the agent commissions out of FFP jurisdiction or just some good old tax-evasion purposes for the agents themselves. Many of the deals mentioned in these latest articles re. Chelsea finances fall under pre-FFP times so the latter seems quite likely.
I for one find it really hard to believe many other clubs aren't guilty of similar arrangements if someone were to open that can of worms. Not because the clubs themselves are necessarily up to something dodgy but rather because the agents most definitely are.
edit: I doubt any of this will come as a surprise to the current owners though. They did their due diligence and self-reported many of these transactions to the authorities, probably in hopes that their co-operation will grant a bit of leniency when the time comes for a punishment. Could also explain why the club have been doing so much transfer business in the last year or so if they expect a transfer ban to be in the cards at some point?
Since the agents aren't actually employed by the clubs it's probably very easy to abuse the system, whether it's to keep parts of the agent commissions out of FFP jurisdiction or just some good old tax-evasion purposes for the agents themselves. Many of the deals mentioned in these latest articles re. Chelsea finances fall under pre-FFP times so the latter seems quite likely.
I for one find it really hard to believe many other clubs aren't guilty of similar arrangements if someone were to open that can of worms. Not because the clubs themselves are necessarily up to something dodgy but rather because the agents most definitely are.
edit: I doubt any of this will come as a surprise to the current owners though. They did their due diligence and self-reported many of these transactions to the authorities, probably in hopes that their co-operation will grant a bit of leniency when the time comes for a punishment. Could also explain why the club have been doing so much transfer business in the last year or so if they expect a transfer ban to be in the cards at some point?
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To an extent, I agree it's unregulated, but not particularly because the rules are poor (they are generally speaking quite clear), it's just that the enforcement is wank.
Well I say the rules are clear, those on ownership are weak, and the decisions around this are quite opaque.
It's probably City Chiefs who's grassed them up, as its not fair to just poke one corrupt club. So City can now drag out there issues with The FA another few years and it will drag on and on.. . Realy don't give to hoots because NOTHING will get done .. as Money talks ask Barcelona !! Probably paid that ref who screwed Chelsea over In CL semi .. never get that game back..
What amazes me is how people are repeatedly presented with stuff like this yet still convince themselves they're watching a non corrupt sport where no game or competition can possibly ever be fixed or have an agenda attached to it.
Players will pretend they've been punched in the face if someone pushes air towards their arm jurt to try and cheat a win, and clubs will happily break any rule they won't get caught or punished for, or even just hope they won't. There are zero repercussions for either (unless you're Juventus). What's the obvious thing to conclude from that when it comes to the integrity of the actual games which invariably have millioms of pounds associated to them?
Players will pretend they've been punched in the face if someone pushes air towards their arm jurt to try and cheat a win, and clubs will happily break any rule they won't get caught or punished for, or even just hope they won't. There are zero repercussions for either (unless you're Juventus). What's the obvious thing to conclude from that when it comes to the integrity of the actual games which invariably have millioms of pounds associated to them?
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Well, in that case he only fair solution would be the forced sale of the club and cutting them off from all revenue for a year, AND making it illegal to re sign many of their current players.
Chelsea has already been through all that.
The funny thing about my points on the history lessons is they never say I’m wrong, or anything like that. They just say “wow”, generally. They probably don’t even know who people Jeremy Sachs are.
They don’t care that there is a distinction between wealthy Russians forced to sell their assets back to the state like Abramovich, and actual oligarchs with the war of Putin like Oleg Deripaska.
The US said there was a massive difference; hence why Roman hasn’t been sanctioned in the US.
But Britain was fully comfortable shutting down trading on a public company based on something they knew to be a lie. It’s affected thousands of jobs, hundreds of thousands of peoples pensions and retirement plans.
They did this damage to a company that no longer had real links to Abramovich just to justify shutting down a sports team (they said Evraz produced Russian tank Steel… which was proven untrue).
I personally think that’s pretty messed up, and they in turn think I’m crazy for thinking it’s messed up.
And yes…. I would love to have that moment against Barca back ….
And me so Utd could win another CL..
It was 2 months.
Nah it’s all posturing and PR. They’ll get off on appeal, it’s not done yet.
I wouldn’t say giving them a deduction is posturing..
Anyway you’ve been proven wrong
This is the point. If you drew up a business plan and account for the reduction it is still a good business plan. Same as those clubs who deliberately go in admin, agree pay 5p in the pound and then do it all again.
Until rhe pundits is so harsh that it isn’t worrh the risk clubs with crappy owners will always do it