Chelsea face new questions over how Roman Abramovich funded success

Plant0x84

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I wouldn’t say giving them a deduction is posturing..

Anyway you’ve been proven wrong ;)
Well, I mean, no I haven’t because I was talking specifically about Chelsea and City. But with regards to Everton (again) they are going to appeal and it will most likely be over turned (much like City at CAS) so still not proven wrong because it’s not a closed case yet. But whatever…..
 

TheReligion

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Well, I mean, no I haven’t because I was talking specifically about Chelsea and City. But with regards to Everton (again) they are going to appeal and it will most likely be over turned (much like City at CAS) so still not proven wrong because it’s not a closed case yet. But whatever…..
The lady doth protest too much, methinks!
 

decorativeed

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Well, I mean, no I haven’t because I was talking specifically about Chelsea and City. But with regards to Everton (again) they are going to appeal and it will most likely be over turned (much like City at CAS) so still not proven wrong because it’s not a closed case yet. But whatever…..
I know what you mean in a way, seeing UEFA ban teams then be forced to reinstate them after an appeal (AC Milan) in 2006, for example. But in those cases the punishments weren't applied in the season they were already playing.

Can you think of any teams that have been given an immediate points deduction and had that deduction removed all in real time during the course of one season? I can't.
 

Bluelion7

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Everton should win their appeal; hat is supposing that the I formation I read is accurate. I think in Evertons case there might be parties trying to make sure they get relegated for their own good.

The maintenance on their debt for stadium work shouldn’t have taken them over an FFP barrier, especially if they had discussed it already, but this isn’t a heavy money backed team, and trying to stay afloat may just genuinely do in the team. Unless there is a sugar daddy I’m missing.

Now, maybe the FA knows the CAS will overturn Evertons. Maybe they are setting an extreme example knowing that City doesn’t have the CAS as an option. They set the justification precedent without actually doing anything to Everton n the end.


On Chelsea… I still want to see where a team has faced a harsher penalty than they did during the he forced outing of the owner, he forced loss of revenue, no fans allowed, the forced loss of key players… has anyone ever any team ever faced something like what Chelsea did?

The self reported issues look like they would be before the EPL FFP rules went into effect.

The Conte stuff is all rumor and conjecture, and unless you have an email trail, like with City, it seems unlikely anything would ever come of it. The FA may bring it to the bargaining table when discussing hardship concessions they already agreed they owed Chelsea when Raine was negotiating their purchase in good faith. But that seems the only real use.

Specifically because the CAS has already been taken out of the equation, the Everton thing seems aimed at City specifically.
 

Rooney in Paris

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I know what you mean in a way, seeing UEFA ban teams then be forced to reinstate them after an appeal (AC Milan) in 2006, for example. But in those cases the punishments weren't applied in the season they were already playing.

Can you think of any teams that have been given an immediate points deduction and had that deduction removed all in real time during the course of one season? I can't.
Isn't it exactly what happened to Juve just a few months ago?
 

the_cliff

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I don't think the PL will penalise Chelsea as these incidents occurred prior to the new ownership. Could Boehly sue the PL or the FA for damages if there were a point deduction ? I mean to give Boehly some credit, he's spent a shitload of money but he has kept within the FFP thresholds himself although those 8 year contracts can come back to bite him on his ass.
 

NewGlory

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I don't think the PL will penalise Chelsea as these incidents occurred prior to the new ownership. Could Boehly sue the PL or the FA for damages if there were a point deduction ? I mean to give Boehly some credit, he's spent a shitload of money but he has kept within the FFP thresholds himself although those 8 year contracts can come back to bite him on his ass.
I assume new owners inherit problems and sins of the previous owners. Doubt their is some kind of absolution from all violations of the past when club changes the owner
 

OleGunnar20

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I assume new owners inherit problems and sins of the previous owners. Doubt their is some kind of absolution from all violations of the past when club changes the owner
I think it depends if Abramovich's people put SOLD AS SEEN!!! in the marketplace ad.
 

Bluelion7

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I assume new owners inherit problems and sins of the previous owners. Doubt their is some kind of absolution from all violations of the past when club changes the owner
I’m pretty sure there were actual discussions on this point though; including allowances the PL owed the new owners of Chelsea against FFP for additional enforced hardship due to revenue and asset losses imposed on the club.

If I’m not mistaken theses discussions happened with the Raine group primarily; because parties looking to purchase something are entitled to know things like future obligation and risk associated with the status of the club. The previous owner was kicked out officially, and the sale happened within 4 to 6 months? That isnt enough time for full due diligence. The PL had essentially told the world Chelsea existed to launder money for Putin. There would have to be assurances.

If City is forced to go through what Chelsea went through it will be a LOT worse than a points deduction. We frankly got lucky, it could have completely unraveled the team forever.
 

cyberman

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I assume new owners inherit problems and sins of the previous owners. Doubt their is some kind of absolution from all violations of the past when club changes the owner
Yep, it’s why Barca aren’t getting away with the ref case
I’m pretty sure the new owners had to report irregularities or they’d be co-conspirators so I’m not even sure the we reported on ourselves defence carries any weight.
 

duffer

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Yep, it’s why Barca aren’t getting away with the ref case
I’m pretty sure the new owners had to report irregularities or they’d be co-conspirators so I’m not even sure the we reported on ourselves defence carries any weight.
We did "self report" to UEFA and it did carry some weight (UEFA said so when they fined us).

Self reporting has to make a difference otherwise there would be no reason for anyone to do it. If it didn't, you might as well stay quiet and hope you get away with it.
 

cyberman

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We did "self report" to UEFA and it did carry some weight (UEFA said so when they fined us).

Self reporting has to make a difference otherwise there would be no reason for anyone to do it. If it didn't, you might as well stay quiet and hope you get away with it.
You get punished above and beyond for not cooperating. It’s like a breathalyser test, if you don’t take one you get 4 (?) years on the spot.
If you’re caught fudging numbers you’re caught.
 

duffer

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You get punished above and beyond for not cooperating. It’s like a breathalyser test, if you don’t take one you get 4 (?) years on the spot.
If you’re caught fudging numbers you’re caught.
And you often get punished less for how you cooperate/volunteer info. It's literally what happened with Chelsea.
 

cyberman

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And you often get punished less for how you cooperate/volunteer info. It's literally what happened with Chelsea.
I think they pretend to make it easier for themselves but it’s only ever Italian football I see giving out real sentences and they don’t give one feck really so maybe that’s the exception.
That’s part of this weird outrage isn’t it? that Everton expected a lighter sentence because they were caught and cooperated but still got the leagues strictest ever punishment?
 

TheReligion

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This is all getting interesting

I imagine if Everton are successfully sued then it opens the door for Chelsea and City (if guilty) to get the same treatment from other clubs regarding lost revenues, trophies etc
 

Changeisgood

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Chelsea should be punished but will not. They are deemed more important than Everton. It doesn't matter that it is a new owner...tough luck! Do your due diligence before purchasing from a crook. This is giving cheating clubs a lifeline by simply changing ownership at the last minute.
 

duffer

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This is all getting interesting

I imagine if Everton are successfully sued then it opens the door for Chelsea and City (if guilty) to get the same treatment from other clubs regarding lost revenues, trophies etc
Chelsea and Man City will be suing each other as well.

Lot of people in the legal profession praying they both get found guilty!
 

TheReligion

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Chelsea and Man City will be suing each other as well.

Lot of people in the legal profession praying they both get found guilty!
It’s a nightmare really and would have a catastrophic impact on everyone I imagine.

Everton would be ruined and stuck with a new stadium to pay for in the Championship.

No idea what punishment yourselves or City would get, or how much other clubs would want in compensation but it would be huge.

Could see it being the end of the PL
 

cyberman

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It’s a nightmare really and would have a catastrophic impact on everyone I imagine.

Everton would be ruined and stuck with a new stadium to pay for in the Championship.

No idea what punishment yourselves or City would get, or how much other clubs would want in compensation but it would be huge.

Could see it being the end of the PL
It could bankrupt both clubs out of existence but the league would be better as a whole. I dont expect any team to get close to what they’ll win in court
 

Changeisgood

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It’s a nightmare really and would have a catastrophic impact on everyone I imagine.

Everton would be ruined and stuck with a new stadium to pay for in the Championship.

No idea what punishment yourselves or City would get, or how much other clubs would want in compensation but it would be huge.

Could see it being the end of the PL
Maybe it needs to happen to properly reset football. The problem is more that other leagues will continue the way they have been. We have been on a horrible slide since Abramovich bought Chelsea.

Start with taking all their trophies away over the stretch. I don't think any of this is going to happen though and for me football's problems are only potentially getting worse with the Saudis.
 

MrMarcello

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Yup. Reckon he'd have received plenty of honours if he were British. Just part of the current programming unfortunately.

I know I'd rather have him than the Glazers.
He supposedly was interested in a number of English clubs including United but was put off by how much it would cost (or maybe Putin was put off). But yeah, at least that guy cared about the club and sport compared to the leeches United got stuck with.
 

Bluelion7

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It could bankrupt both clubs out of existence but the league would be better as a whole. I dont expect any team to get close to what they’ll win in court
You think teams with that kind of backing, getting sued, WON’T find something on other teams like United as well? Do you have that kind of faith in the Glazers? The Kroenke family? It would start a war of sorts.

Boehly mentioned the fact the fact that FFP rules would have real teeth moving forward and teams would have to take care. It seems harsh, but Everton broke FFP under the new penalties. Would you go back and apply penalties that wouldn’t have existed at the time other offenses may or may not have been committed?

There are way too many questions.

What the scenario Religion is talking about leads to only one thing: the Superleague return.

Most of the contracts related to things like TV are being re-negotiated next year, right? That would be a very bad time for a fight.

There is also a question of whether Chelsea’s self reported discrepancies would have even violated PL rules. They would have violated UEFA FFP rules that year, but the statute limit is past on that. For the PL it would amount to … failing to accurately report money they were allowed to spend anyway?

Nobody blinked with the self reported offenses until the Cyprus stuff started coming out in the press. But that is all journalist hype and hyperbolic speculation. If the PL tried to conflate the two there would be real issue.

With the City case you have e-mail trails and documentation specifically tying ventures and payments to the knowing bypass of the rules. There is a whole timeline of physical evidence, that indicts be CURRENT owners of the club.

It would take years to investigate any of the Chelsea stuff with the same care.
 

Lightbringer

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And now Chelsea womens fans are wondering why their ticket prices have increased! When sugar daddy Abramovich ran their team to the top while losing incredible amount of money each season. Perhaps the new owner wants to run it as a business even though he took over a top side thanks to cheating and sugar daddy money?
 

cyberman

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You think teams with that kind of backing, getting sued, WON’T find something on other teams like United as well? Do you have that kind of faith in the Glazers? The Kroenke family? It would start a war of sorts.

Boehly mentioned the fact the fact that FFP rules would have real teeth moving forward and teams would have to take care. It seems harsh, but Everton broke FFP under the new penalties. Would you go back and apply penalties that wouldn’t have existed at the time other offenses may or may not have been committed?

There are way too many questions.

What the scenario Religion is talking about leads to only one thing: the Superleague return.

Most of the contracts related to things like TV are being re-negotiated next year, right? That would be a very bad time for a fight.

There is also a question of whether Chelsea’s self reported discrepancies would have even violated PL rules. They would have violated UEFA FFP rules that year, but the statute limit is past on that. For the PL it would amount to … failing to accurately report money they were allowed to spend anyway?

Nobody blinked with the self reported offenses until the Cyprus stuff started coming out in the press. But that is all journalist hype and hyperbolic speculation. If the PL tried to conflate the two there would be real issue.

With the City case you have e-mail trails and documentation specifically tying ventures and payments to the knowing bypass of the rules. There is a whole timeline of physical evidence, that indicts be CURRENT owners of the club.

It would take years to investigate any of the Chelsea stuff with the same care.
We’ll just wait and see if we have done anything similar but I can’t see how when we’ve turned players down because of agents fees. It’s a weak point.
What will happen if you’re punished is to go down the divisions, dissolve the club and create a new Chelsea without debt or legal consequences ala Rangers.
No more hiding, The FA have to be tough now after Everton and the independent adjudicator about to take up their spot.
feck me like, you got a 2b gift just written off and now you’re expecting the FA to let you off with more free money and allow you to walk away. Enough is enough, you’ve had this a long time coming
 

steeeb

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The Evertons point reduction is there to set the tone for City and Chelsea. They went for the low hanging fruit and if nothing gets overturned its bad for City and Chelsea.

If I were them I'd be getting Everton the best lawyers money can buy.

Theres no way if it doesn't get overturned then City and Chelsea won't get big punishments.

Also lots of lower league teams have got point reductions, Italian league has no problem dishing them out either.
 

PeteRae

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Don’t see how anyone could have enjoyed that anyway. All the success they had, which was a lot but they were never the dominant force like us, was hollow and plastic as feck. No different to City.

Honestly with the death of Sir Bobby recently it’s again brought up the incredible success story of United, in addition to the constant media frenzy around the class of 92 and Sir Alex Ferguson. If you’re a Chelsea fan your success is solely down to a crooked Russian Oligarch. State of that.
The only reason this isn’t highlighted as much is because of Man City. They turned up and did a Chelski on steroids and every one knows it. Chelsea were always a PL club so they have taken a back seat in the critism.
 

Bluelion7

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We’ll just wait and see if we have done anything similar but I can’t see how when we’ve turned players down because of agents fees. It’s a weak point.
What will happen if you’re punished is to go down the divisions, dissolve the club and create a new Chelsea without debt or legal consequences ala Rangers.
No more hiding, The FA have to be tough now after Everton and the independent adjudicator about to take up their spot.
feck me like, you got a 2b gift just written off and now you’re expecting the FA to let you off with more free money and allow you to walk away. Enough is enough, you’ve had this a long time coming
You wouldnt have had to have done the SAME thing. There were no applicable FFP rules in the PL during our self reported irregularities.

Those are reporting issues. Did the Glazers accurately report how all revenue was leaving the club? Did they do nothing shady in getting that massive endorsement contract from a company that couldn’t technically afford to pay it in a non European stretch?

I’m saying if you get into a war over minor reporting irregularities, the in fighting could get endless.

Evertons case is applying the FFP the way they told us it was intended: to save clubs from themselves. They are approaching a half billion in operating debt, and they don’t have the means to simply cover the costs. It isn’t a rules issue for them, they are approaching the collapse of the club potentially.

City has decades of very investigated and paper trail verified offenses. And they haven’t been forced to go through s sale, much less face the other punishments Chelsea endured.

We self reported irregularities in the amounts paid for two players … when we likely didn’t even need to. It’s less serious Than the Juve Barca shenanigans where they manipulated fake sales on paper, those weren’t self reported, and I’m not sure they faced any penalties.

For me, City being forced to sell their team and go through what we did is a baseline to starting any additional discussions about Chelsea unless the new owners violate something.
 

adexkola

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For me, City being forced to sell their team and go through what we did is a baseline to starting any additional discussions about Chelsea unless the new owners violate something.
I mean, what you guys went through was bullshit, to be honest. You just had the misfortune of Putin invading Ukraine, and then the authorities invented a reason to seize Chelsea from Roman. Chelsea employees, players and fans be damned.

Boehly needs to instigate a war between UAE and Israel, and you'll get that City sale soon enough
 

Bluelion7

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I mean, what you guys went through was bullshit, to be honest. You just had the misfortune of Putin invading Ukraine, and then the authorities invented a reason to seize Chelsea from Roman. Chelsea employees, players and fans be damned.

Boehly needs to instigate a war between UAE and Israel, and you'll get that City sale soon enough

Wouldn’t work, because unlike the papers would tell you, Ronan ultimately was just a rich dude with no actual pull.

You go after the ruling families of nations you are counting on for concessions in areas like heating fuel … that’s a different animal.

We should t need a different war though. The first reason for demanding a sale of Chelsea was the ludicrous idea the team could be used to bypass sanctions and fund Russias invasion.

We have direct proof that Saudi and UAE, through OPEC+ have done exactly that service for Russia to the tune of billions of dollars. Bin Salman and Mansour are literally guilty of the possible crime they were worried Abramovich could commit.
 

Plant0x84

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Pretty much inevitable City get expelled from the EPL for at least 3-5 years. Not sure titles get stripped. Probably voided.
You really believe the PL has the balls to do that? Far more likely a huge fine/bribe and told not to do it again. No way they are kicked out of the league. Never going to happen.
 

Plant0x84

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If that was EPL position, they'd never have brought the charges.
You only have to look at the TV match coverage to see it. City, Chelsea, Newcastle, Arsenal and to a lesser extent now United are featured the most, they are the teams most want to watch and the matches broadcasters want to show. They bring the most revenue so kicking them out of the league would be self defeating. The likes of Leicester, Sheffield and Middlesboro with all due respect won’t bring anything like as much cash into the league if they replace a City or a Chelsea.
The PL is all about cash now, and money is power.