Not this tripe again, there was a dedicated (nonsense) thread about this scenario. Post your shite in there.
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Season Average Rating
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- Clean sheets
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- 1
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Why? I dont think Spurs would take more than 3 or 4 out of all of our players so its weird to make out that if only Arsenal would take Smalling its a problem.
I think they'd take a couple more then that tbh but I digress. My point is Smalling is certainly noway near the only player in the squad we need to upgrade imo. Years of squad mismanagement and under-investment means we have an abundance of players that aren't good enough for where we want to be going as a club.
I like Smalling but I'm scared of him trying to climb on messi's back.
Smalling has won league titles though, and has played for a team that was challenging for the CL. All I need to know is you have no idea what you're talking aboutAs opposed to the experts who think Chris Smalling is good enough to challenge for the league/CL
If he was to leave us no other top club would be in for him, that's all you need to know
Not his biggest fan throughout his career here but he has done well this season imo. Maybe there is something to this vegan diet thing.
Have you read Fergie's autobiography? He says if he could go back and replay the 2011 CL final he'd have stuck Smalling on Messi.As opposed to the experts who think Chris Smalling is good enough to challenge for the league/CL
If he was to leave us no other top club would be in for him, that's all you need to know
His passing is really very bad. All sideways and back to DDG for another wasted long ball. With it he could've become world class.
He started a grand total of 21 games in his two title winning seasons, and some of those were at right back. Let's not pretend he was anything more than a squad player in those years.
No one is suggesting he can't be upgraded on, but right now and for a number of seasons, he has been our best centre back, and it's not particularly close.
Jose spent relatively big on two centre backs and Smalling continues to out-perform them. If he hadn't have come off the bench on Saturday you'd be forgiven for forgetting Rojo still exists, and Jones is Jones. There's plenty ahead of Smalling who need to be upgraded on first, yet Smallings name is always first on the chopping block, when freeloaders like Rojo and Jones should have been binned ages ago.
Jose spent relatively big on two centre backs and Smalling continues to out-perform them. If he hadn't have come off the bench on Saturday you'd be forgiven for forgetting Rojo still exists, and Jones is Jones. There's plenty ahead of Smalling who need to be upgraded on first, yet Smallings name is always first on the chopping block, when freeloaders like Rojo and Jones should have been binned ages ago.
He was a squad player that played just as many games at RB as he did CB in the years you're talking about. That's obviously not the case now and it's also obvious to anybody with a set of eyes that he hasn't developed as well as he was expected to back then. It's pretty obvious you're the one who hasn't got a clue if you're using Smalling's input way back then to a title win to justify his place in the spot now.
2010/11 - 16 games in the League when we won it
2012/13 - 15 games in the League when we won it
(And a combination of 21 STARTS in both seasons
)Again some of those games were at RB. What has his input as a fringe player got to do with whether he's good enough now? We also won titles with Darron Gibson as a squad player - should we bring him back? We have never seriously challenged for the league with Chris Smalling as first choice centre back. Fact.
David De Gea is a much better player now than what he was when he won the league with us. He hasn't won the league since. Following the logic of the points you're making he must not be good enough either? Smalling could play for a title winning team, I see no reason why he couldn't. Has a lot of qualities that are important for it to happen.
He was also backup to Rio Ferdinand and Nemanja Vidic, while being 21 and 23 respectively in those seasons. Not sure what would you expect? For me, the fact that he has played that many games is very impressive, regardless of the position.He was a squad player that played just as many games at RB as he did CB in the years you're talking about. That's obviously not the case now and it's also obvious to anybody with a set of eyes that he hasn't developed as well as he was expected to back then. It's pretty obvious you're the one who hasn't got a clue if you're using Smalling's input way back then to a title win to justify his place in the spot now.
2010/11 - 16 games in the League when we won it
2012/13 - 15 games in the League when we won it
(And a combination of 21 STARTS in both seasons
Again some of those games were at RB. What has his input as a fringe player got to do with whether he's good enough now? We also won titles with Darron Gibson as a squad player - should we bring him back? We have never seriously challenged for the league with Chris Smalling as first choice centre back. Fact.
Just for comparison, Raphael Varane at Real Madrid played 14 games when he was 21. (He did play 27 and 26 games when he was 22 and 23 but he has never played move than 27 games in a season as well...)
Spot on. He is a luxury against tough physical teams, but won't be a part in developing this side into serious title contenders. It's just too easy pressing the defence for mistakes and captivating, in my opinion. But, vegan chris stays on of course.
Once again this myth. Pressing Smalling doesn't lead to mistakes. He deals with it better than our other CBs most of the time because he plays it simple whereas others are more likely to take risks. Lindelof has been tackled trying to dribble out of pressure for example.
He might mess up a longer distance pass when he has time on the ball and tries to be more creative, but I've seen much better ball players skew a long ball. Its a common thing.
I mean for the squad sure. But in terms of starting players I dont think so.
If you're a spurs fan I'm not sure it even goes beyond De Gea and Pogba. Spurs main formation this season is without wingers and Son has done so well that Rashford wouldnt be an improvement up front. If you're a Spurs fan you probably dont see Shaw as an upgrade on Rose.
Now while I'm not sure Spurs would try to sign Smalling if we made him available - although its possible given Toby probably leaving. I do think that if Spurs already had Smalling, he'd be starting because he's better than Sanchez and the reason Sanchez plays is that he wins a good amount of headers whereas Toby and Verthongen win barely any. Smalling makes the most headers out of the defenders at the top 6 clubs. So he would be an obvious improvement on Sanchez and therefore if he was Spurs player, he'd be playing.
You keep saying this but you're missing the point. Every time we play those simple sideways passes it moves us closer to our own goal and allows the opposition to close us down. He's not the only one who does it, but it invites pressure and usually leads either to a De Gea hoof or a defender hoof or mistake. Either way we lose the ball.
That's why the bench were screaming at our players to get forward on Saturday and that's why Smalling didn't go to the World Cup, and why inferior actual defenders like John Stones are collecting caps and league titles and he isn't. It's not because he screws up the occasional long pass.
Yes a De Gea clearance is where it usually ends up, which is well away from danger and gives us the chance to win the ball. If the kick isnt good and we dont win the duel, thats not Smalling or whoever is short passing's fault. Its a problem with the kicker and the person trying to win the ball.
Smalling didnt go to the world cup because Southgate wanted to seem like he's doing something new. As soon as England played against decent teams who pressed them their CBs made lots of mistakes and lost all composure. Smalling would have done far better, especially because England had a keeper who kicks well.
But when we already had the ball, that's not a good thing. You're just giving the ball away and as you're sat deep at that point the opposition will be straight on you.
If I was a youtube ninja I could have made a hefty compilation to help explain my case, but you'll just have to deal with my wall of text here.
Firstly, Lindelöf creates something on the ball way more than he does not, so I don't see why how he is comparable in regard to Smalling.
Problem: When the defence is put under pressure, they, including De Gea, just give the ball away. Hoofing it upfield without an address, and Smalling always seems at the origin of the problem. Yes, I guess I could be biased but it is a pretty known fact that he can't produce anything at all when on the ball in the back, and by always choosing the safe side or back pass, he is not producing space for the midfield to field in. By the way, this was very apparent recently against Watford without Lindelöf on the pitch.
My hypothesis is the following: By always choosing the safest option (plainly: the easiest pass) is predictable for the opposition. He gives his teammate less time on the ball than he did before passing the ball. This is a schoolboy mistake in football. The opposition can easily close down said teammate, and the remaining defenders, who end up giving the ball away easily.
Furthermore, it is his decision making that worries me the most (and not the actual passing). In this day and age defenders need to be able to drive up possession, at times, by his own accord or by direct passing through the opposition. I'll repeat myself here: At times. There's no need for a Messi in the back, but some ball handling is required.
This is not the greatest of problems though, but I think it is a weakness every opposition team can use as a way to build a game plan. This is what worries me, and what I see time and time again.
Smalling has improved a great deal under Ole but his passing is still a thing to ponder about. He will play until we sign another great CB and that's something i think we can be fine about.
Lindelof creates more often than not? No. He passes the ball sideways more often than not, just like Smalling and most CBs. He also occasionally plays a nice pass forward to the front players which is nice to see. And he's more likely to play a nice pass into midfield. But this is not what happens most of the time. Most of the time he recycles the ball left and right like our other CBs.
The two worst things you can do as a CB are :
1) Make an individual error/lose a duel allowing an attacker a free shot at goal
2) Lose the ball when you are 1 of the furthest players back on the pitch. If Lindelof or someone else loses the ball usually the only chance of stopping a 1 on 1 with the keeper is the other CB who may or may not be able to make up for the mistake. At times it'll simply be a 1 on 1 chance coming from overplaying
Smalling doesnt do these things. Those are things that invite pressure, because the reward is so high from nipping the ball off a CB trying to do too much. It can lead to an easy goal which is the exact of opposite of why you play CBs in the first place. They are supposed to be there to stop opponents having easy chances with nobody helping the goalkeeper
Agreed, I went a bit too far in praising Lindelöf in my post. The occasional dribble, direct pass or longball is all I am after in Smalling's play.
We seemingly disagree with what we expect from our CBs. I leave it there.
You're talking as though its still the 1990s. Top defenders are expected to do more than simply getting in the way of the ball now.
Smalling has attributes none of our other centre halfs do, he's rapid and excellent in the air and actually a very good defender. He's been first choice now for numerous seasons under numerous managers. So maybe it's still the 90's, or maybe your opinion is flawed.
Not at the expense of making mistakes and giving away cheap goals. Thats still the most important part, fancy stuff on the ball is the cherry on top
This thread is like ground hog day, fecking hell. Do you lot not get tired?
Not everyone is going to appreciate Smalling, oh well.
As long as he keeps playing as well as he's been playing since he returned to the side, I really couldn't care what any one individual thinks of him.
Not everyone is going to appreciate Smalling, oh well.
As long as he keeps playing as well as he's been playing since he returned to the side, I really couldn't care what any one individual thinks of him.
Of course not, but then as a supposed top club that part of defending should be a given. The cherry on the top is what you expect if you want to win titles.
For what its worth, my average rating of Smalling is higher than the Caf average. We still need better than him to get back to where we were.
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Truly an eye-opening input bringing the discussion forward. Why even bother posting, mate.
I respect Smalling a lot, but he is not the future of this club. It is possible to be nuanced enough to see parts of the club's, the squad's, the player's and the manager's good and bad sides - and at the same time: able to discuss it.
This club needs to go forward, and I see Smalling play a lesser part in that future. That is my view and I am within every right to post that view in his performance thread without taking shit like this for it.
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It was about as thought-provoking as the 475th discussion about Smalling's passing in this thread alone, mate.
You're well within your rights to have your opinion, as am I that; 2 days on from our last match (which he played well in btw) his thread is being bumped to discuss his passing ability, is pointless.
I don't see where you're taking shit, if you want to continue going round and round on this then nobody is stopping you.
Hard to disagree on that
Well played mate.I think the bigger problems in why we struggle to pass it around is our midfielders and forwards. We don't move around well enough so we can pass it around fast enough.
It's a testament to his defending that people have resorted to criticising him for penalties he might give away in the future and his not being able to pass the ball like a midfielder.
Even the "he has a mistake in him" lads have shut up.
Another win on saturday that we wouldn't have got without him yet people are still on here trying to find ways to criticise him. Very strange.
Even the "he has a mistake in him" lads have shut up.
Another win on saturday that we wouldn't have got without him yet people are still on here trying to find ways to criticise him. Very strange.
But how about VAR? Look at those penalties!
I'm guessing the style of which we won wasn't up to scratch and so naturally the blame for that is on Smalling's passing. Despite our midfield being shit and Chris keeping us in the game, apparently that is not how you win titles.
I don't think it's Smalling's fault (primarily) for our struggles in passing the ball. He is doing his current job well.
That being, there's this chasm at times between our front 3 and the rest of our team. It's not sustainable. It's easier to maintain a passing rhythm and supply our forwards better if the midfield (and defense) can push up. If our defenders stay deep and our midfield (Pogba) constantly needs to go back and get the ball... You cap the team's ceiling.
People can say that debating this is a waste of time, but when big youtubers and voices in the fanbase like Stephen Howson consistently pedal these myths about Smalling bring a championship level player, VAR will end him etc, that somehow Messi will put him on his arse when Mbappe failed to do so, and Harry Kane has been consistently put in his pocket. I think it is necessary to debate them, people are just denying objective reality.
It is generally the same bunch of weirdo's breathing each others farts and egging it all on. I find myself just eyeballing past most of the silly posts and tedious arguments. His game speaks for itself, one of the best in the squad and the league.
It was down to his defending in the first 15 mins that we did not get into more trouble. He had a very good game unlike most of the team
He did his part and even played in a CL semifinal. Who cares that he played at RB? Can you take away what Jones did as an auxiliary DM against Ronaldo and against Arsenal for instance? Smalling was still young and developing and earned his medals, you can't take the fact he was deemed good enough to play a part even if it wasn't an instrumental one.
Look at my post above. Nobody but you and Smalling detractors gives a shit he played as a RB. Which youth or young players haven't been played out of position ever? What a joke of a post.He was a squad player that played just as many games at RB as he did CB in the years you're talking about. That's obviously not the case now and it's also obvious to anybody with a set of eyes that he hasn't developed as well as he was expected to back then. It's pretty obvious you're the one who hasn't got a clue if you're using Smalling's input way back then to a title win to justify his place in the spot now.
2010/11 - 16 games in the League when we won it
2012/13 - 15 games in the League when we won it
(And a combination of 21 STARTS in both seasons
Again some of those games were at RB. What has his input as a fringe player got to do with whether he's good enough now? We also won titles with Darron Gibson as a squad player - should we bring him back? We have never seriously challenged for the league with Chris Smalling as first choice centre back. Fact.
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