Chris Smalling - does he start at any other top 6 team?

FootballHQ

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Wasn't Southgate getting a virtual lynching on here not so long ago for not calling him up for England?

Jones and Smalling should've been sent packing years ago.
 

Sauldogba

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He was injured but when he returned he wasn't selected for a few games. Then Lindelof was rested for PSG and he came back in and has been in since.

It is true though that every season we concede more with him than without him.
See i thought it wasnt my mind playing tricks on me.
This seems to happen a lot.
When hes out we concede less then for some reason people want him back.
He gets back then we concede more and our defense looks like a shaky mess.
 

MrSingh2002

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See i thought it wasnt my mind playing tricks on me.
This seems to happen a lot.
When hes out we concede less then for some reason people want him back.
He gets back then we concede more and our defense looks like a shaky mess.
I'd love to see the stats on that. There's so much shite in our squad when compared with City's and Liverpools. And that's because theyve got rid of deadwood and made decent investments. Deadwood can be identified when the players leave and achieve nothing at their next clubs.
 

11101

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I'd love to see the stats on that. There's so much shite in our squad when compared with City's and Liverpools. And that's because theyve got rid of deadwood and made decent investments. Deadwood can be identified when the players leave and achieve nothing at their next clubs.
They were posted earlier in this thread. It's been a consistent trend over the last few years.
 

Sp00ks11

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I have been saying it for years but Smalling and Jones should be nowhere near Manchester United, both injury prone, spineless awful defenders.
 

izec

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I just want him gone. I am starting to dislike him, only because he is shit and some fans are defending him every day and his pathetic excuse of a defender. He is one of the experienced guys in the squad, plays like a newbie. I just want a black hole to appear and suck him in for him to disappear to not have to watch him play for us anymore and dont have to see posts off Ekeke defending him every time. He wouldnt even start for Valencia, but here he comes defending his displays. Garay is prime Rio compared to this guy
 

Negan

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I see the Smalling fan club is quiet today.....
 

Oldyella

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Anyone who posts defending him, is always accused of jumping into threads to defend him. No one does and we are accused of being silent.

We could have a thread about pretty much everyone of our players and if they would make other top 6 teams and I think they would all be in the negative but for some reason it's always Smalling, which is why he often gets people defending him.
 

Ekeke

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See i thought it wasnt my mind playing tricks on me.
This seems to happen a lot.
When hes out we concede less then for some reason people want him back.
He gets back then we concede more and our defense looks like a shaky mess.
Because he's brought back for the important games. We're likely to concede less against the easier teams thats why other players get their chances in those games. Smalling has played almost all of our biggest matches this season, where we're obviously more likely to have trouble at the back. Then its Lindelof. Jones has only played a couple of big matches so I bet he has the best record. But does that mean he's been better than Lindelof? No, because the context is that Lindelof has played in tougher matches so even if we conceded more with him in the team it doesnt mean he isnt better than Jones.
 

Ekeke

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They were posted earlier in this thread. It's been a consistent trend over the last few years.
Here's the real numbers from this season

Smalling = 33 goals conceded in 22 league starts.

1.5 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Spurs x1, City x1, Liverpool x2, Chelsea x1 and Arsenal x2. Thats 7/8 of our big matches in the league,
missing just the 1 Spurs match.


12 goals were conceded in those 7 big matches in the league.

1.7 goals conceded per big game with (7/8) played this season.

-----
Lindelof = 36 goals conceded in 26 league starts.

1.38 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Chelsea x1, City x1 Liverpool x2, Spurs x1, Arsenal x1. Thats 6/8 of our big matches in the league

10 goals were conceded in those 6 big matches in the league.

1.6 goals conceded per big game with (6/8) of the big matches played this season.

Edit - Fixed his numbers because he didnt start the first Spurs match, he was a sub


-----


Jones = 20 goals conceded in 13 league starts.

1.5 goals conceded per game overall

Started against Spurs x2. Thats 2/8 of our big matches in the league.

3 goals were conceded in those 2 big matches in the league.

1.5 goals conceded per big game with 2/8 big matches played this season.


-----


Bailly = 14 goals conceded in 7 league starts.

2 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Arsenal x1, Liverpool x1. Thats 2/8 of our big matches in the league.

5 goals were conceded in those 2 big matches in the league.

2.5 goals conceded per big game with 2/8 big matches played this season.


-----


Rojo = 2 goals conceded in 1 league start.

2 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Arsenal x1. Thats 1/8 of our big matches in the league.

2 goals were conceded in that 1 big match in the league.

2 goals conceded per big game with 1/8 big games played this season.



Edit -

The least goals have been conceded with Lindelof starting in the league.
But he has played less big matches than Smalling.

Jones again concedes the same amount as Smalling in general, but has a better record in the big matches than either Smalling or Lindelof.

But he's only played 2 of the big matches whereas Lindelof has played 6 and Smalling has played 7. So its too small a sample size.

Bailly and Rojo have been very poor.
 
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11101

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Because Rojo, Bailly and Jones are the standard we should be judging him by?

Another way to put those figures is that we are nearly 50% more likely to concede when he plays than when he doesn't.
 

Ekeke

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Because Rojo, Bailly and Jones are the standard we should be judging him by?

Another way to put those figures is that we are nearly 50% more likely to concede when he plays than when he doesn't.

Nonsense. His numbers are the best of our CBs. And thats in the league, he was better in the champions league than he has been in the league
 

KristianMackle

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I dont think any of our CBs including Lindelof will win us a title. Those just aren't names that will strike fear in any attacker.
In football, you have to build from the back not from the front. If your defense is solid, everything else clicks and falls in place but we were too busy chasing the marquee signings (Pogba, Lukaku, etc).
 

11101

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Nonsense. His numbers are the best of our CBs. And thats in the league, he was better in the champions league than he has been in the league
Well we conceded 14 in the 12 games he didn't play, or 1.16 per game. 33 in the 22 he did, or 1.5 per game. So we are 30% more likely to concede with him in the team and it's been the same for at least the past 3 seasons. I don't know about you, but i think that's the kind of top class centre back we could do without.

And who cares if he's been better than junk like Rojo or Jones?
 

Ekeke

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Well we conceded 14 in the 12 games he didn't play, or 1.16 per game. 33 in the 22 he did, or 1.5 per game. So we are 30% more likely to concede with him in the team and it's been the same for at least the past 3 seasons. I don't know about you, but i think that's the kind of top class centre back we could do without.

And who cares if he's been better than junk like Rojo or Jones?
And Lindelof. Slightly, in the league.

Again he's been at his best in europe this season.

He's not been as good as he was last year in the league.

But despite not being at his best in the league he's still been our best CB and the player we've called into the side for 90% of our big matches.

We've conceded plenty in those big matches, because they are better teams who are going to make us work harder at the back. Despite being the most used CB in those tough games where we've conceded a lot, he's still a better option than Lindelof who we concede more with in the team.

I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm saying he's the best defensively of what we have and thats clear. Hopefully we do improve the defense in the summer but until Lindelof improves (and he has time on his side to do that) it'll be someone to play next to Smalling.
 

red_john

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He's long over due his stay imo. He's not united quality and everybody knows it. We have just put up with him because he puts in half decent games now and again.
 

Ekeke

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In the champions league :

Smalling = 8 games, 7 goals conceded. Barcelona in our most recent game were the only team to score more than 1 single goal with Smalling playing

Lindelof = 7 games, 9 goals conceded. PSG first leg was the first time a team scored more than 1 single goal against us with Lindelof playing

Jones = 3 games, 5 goals conceded. Valencia 2nd game was the first time a team scored more than 1 single goal against us with Jones playing

Bailly = 4 games, 5 goals conceded. Valencia 2nd game was the first time a team scored more than 1 single goal against us with Bailly playing

Rojo = 1 game, 2 goals conceded.


So Smalling is our only CB who played more games than goals conceded in the champions league this season
 

Acole9

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His career at United has been very up and down. I don't mind having him as a back up but definitely not starting. There's a reason why he's not picked for England and that's because Southgate just doesn't rate him, as long as he's the manager he'll never be selected for the national team again.
 

11101

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And Lindelof. Slightly, in the league.

Again he's been at his best in europe this season.

He's not been as good as he was last year in the league.

But despite not being at his best in the league he's still been our best CB and the player we've called into the side for 90% of our big matches.

We've conceded plenty in those big matches, because they are better teams who are going to make us work harder at the back. Despite being the most used CB in those tough games where we've conceded a lot, he's still a better option than Lindelof who we concede more with in the team.

I'm not saying he's perfect, I'm saying he's the best defensively of what we have and thats clear. Hopefully we do improve the defense in the summer but until Lindelof improves (and he has time on his side to do that) it'll be someone to play next to Smalling.
In comparison to Smalling, where we concede more goals with him that we do without him:

Lindelof concedes 1.2 goals per game as our starting centre back (32 in 26)
We concede 1.8 goals per game without him there (16 in 9)

That's the kind of difference you want a defender to make.
 

Ekeke

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In comparison to Smalling, where we concede more goals with him that we do without him:

Lindelof concedes 1.2 goals per game as our starting centre back (32 in 26)
We concede 1.8 goals per game without him there (16 in 9)

That's the kind of difference you want a defender to make.
Its 36 in 26.

I did have it as 39 but I included the wrong Spurs match where we conceded 3 instead of the match we conceded 0. He came on as a sub in that match so shouldnt have been counted.

1.38 goals per game in general.


Started against Chelsea x1, City x1 Liverpool x2, Spurs x1, Arsenal x1. Thats 6/8 of our big matches in the league

10 goals were conceded in those 6 big matches in the league.

1.6 goals conceded per big game with (6/8) of the big matches played this season.

There. So 1.38 Vs. Smalling's 1.5 and 1.6 to Smalling's 1.7 so the numbers do say Lindelof has done a bit better in the league

The numbers are still right for the champions league though where Smalling is the only CB to play more games than goals conceded
 

11101

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Its 36 in 26.

I did have it as 39 but I included the wrong Spurs match where we conceded 3 instead of the match we conceded 0. He came on as a sub in that match so shouldnt have been counted.

1.38 goals per game in general.


Started against Chelsea x1, City x1 Liverpool x2, Spurs x1, Arsenal x1. Thats 6/8 of our big matches in the league

10 goals were conceded in those 6 big matches in the league.

1.6 goals conceded per big game with (6/8) of the big matches played this season.

There. So 1.38 Vs. Smalling's 1.5 and 1.6 to Smalling's 1.7 so the numbers do say Lindelof has done a bit better in the league

The numbers are still right for the champions league though where Smalling is the only CB to play more games than goals conceded

He also played at right back v Everton so that doesn't count either. So actually we're both wrong, its 32 in 25, or 1.28 per game.


The point is there is still a question mark over Lindelof. He's been here two years and hasn't completely convinced us either way, but at least he's making a positive impact when he plays. You can't possibly argue someone who makes the team worse is anywhere near good enough for us.
 

Sterling Archer

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I don't see the point in picking apart our defenders one at a time, regardless of their limitations. Quite simply our defense has not been good enough for a long time. We have made do from a combination of defensive setups , DeGea wonder saves and now see how truly horrendous we can be.

Each and every one of our CBs has had good games and bad ones. But what we lack above all is leadership there. More so than the middle of the part, if we get a leader at the back it will help settle a lot of mistake behind and ahead of him.
 

Ekeke

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He also played at right back v Everton so that doesn't count either. So actually we're both wrong, its 32 in 25, or 1.28 per game.


The point is there is still a question mark over Lindelof. He's been here two years and hasn't completely convinced us either way, but at least he's making a positive impact when he plays. You can't possibly argue someone who makes the team worse is anywhere near good enough for us.
Just because we concede a goal doesnt mean we havent defended better. There are many factors in that - from our own side, has the midfield done a good job?

Against Everton for example the answer is a clear no. So defending in that game is twice as hard as it might have been in another match where the midfield does a decent job.

Has the goalkeeper done a good job or has he made a mistake? I wouldnt be surprised if Romero's numbers are better than De Gea's this season, because overall we've conceded a large amount of goals and he's played in most of the big games, where we're more likely to concede goals similar to Smalling.

Does that mean Romero helps the team more than De Gea? I dont think so.

Have we dominated the ball and kept it away from our goal for most of the game?

Has a fullback made a mistake? Like Dalot's sliced clearance or the many times Ashley Young has been found wanting.

Other such questions like this all come into play.

I only did the maths myself because you were talking about it. I don't and never did believe that all that matters is who was playing when we conceded a goal because its a team game and defending is a team job.

Then you move onto the other team. Thats right, the other team has a factor on it too. Were they up for the match? Did they perform at their best? Did one of their players do something really good that could have resulted in a goal against even the best teams? Did the opposition have lots of crap attempts from 30 yards, or did they score 2 wonder goals from 30 yards? All of that is a factor too.

Only when you include all of that AND the numbers of who was on the pitch when we conceded, in very fine detail, can we really see whats going on.

So yes Lindelof's numbers are the best of our CBs in the league and thats good for him. Meanwhile Smalling's numbers are the best in the champions league which is good for him. And I agree that neither has been amazing this season. And I'd still like us to sign a CB to at least compete with them, but with the contracts given out to the likes of Rojo I'm not sure it'll happen.

But if we do sign a new CB I'd put them next to Smalling to start with. If Lindelof keeps improving he'll eventually take the spot.
 

Infordin

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I saw found this on reddit


I had no idea Matip was this good with the ball at his feet. That does make me rethink the idea that Smalling would start for Liverpool.
 

RochaRoja

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Here's the real numbers from this season

Smalling = 33 goals conceded in 22 league starts.

1.5 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Spurs x1, City x1, Liverpool x2, Chelsea x1 and Arsenal x2. Thats 7/8 of our big matches in the league,
missing just the 1 Spurs match.


12 goals were conceded in those 7 big matches in the league.

1.7 goals conceded per big game with (7/8) played this season.

-----
Lindelof = 36 goals conceded in 26 league starts.

1.38 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Chelsea x1, City x1 Liverpool x2, Spurs x1, Arsenal x1. Thats 6/8 of our big matches in the league

10 goals were conceded in those 6 big matches in the league.

1.6 goals conceded per big game with (6/8) of the big matches played this season.

Edit - Fixed his numbers because he didnt start the first Spurs match, he was a sub


-----


Jones = 20 goals conceded in 13 league starts.

1.5 goals conceded per game overall

Started against Spurs x2. Thats 2/8 of our big matches in the league.

3 goals were conceded in those 2 big matches in the league.

1.5 goals conceded per big game with 2/8 big matches played this season.


-----


Bailly = 14 goals conceded in 7 league starts.

2 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Arsenal x1, Liverpool x1. Thats 2/8 of our big matches in the league.

5 goals were conceded in those 2 big matches in the league.

2.5 goals conceded per big game with 2/8 big matches played this season.


-----


Rojo = 2 goals conceded in 1 league start.

2 goals conceded per game overall.

Started against Arsenal x1. Thats 1/8 of our big matches in the league.

2 goals were conceded in that 1 big match in the league.

2 goals conceded per big game with 1/8 big games played this season.



Edit -

The least goals have been conceded with Lindelof starting in the league.
But he has played less big matches than Smalling.

Jones again concedes the same amount as Smalling in general, but has a better record in the big matches than either Smalling or Lindelof.

But he's only played 2 of the big matches whereas Lindelof has played 6 and Smalling has played 7. So its too small a sample size.

Bailly and Rojo have been very poor.
To be fair, all United’s other centre back options are gash too so it’s basically a pointless comparison.
 

DanClancy

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He is a good CB, the least of our problems. As a GK, De Gea has made more mistakes than Smalling has as a CB, yet one gets an almost free pass here while the other is constantly scapegoated.
Smalling is dross, utter dross. He's getting worse in possession then better. Top clubs can't get away with a defender as limited as Smalling.
 

Bojan11

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Any coincidence that the football has got worse since he’s come back into the team?

Or am I reading too much into it?
 

Holters

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Barely any of our players would start for any if the top 4 teams... or PSG, Barca, Real, etc
 

InspiRED

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No. He's terrible on the ball, you can't start attacks from the back at the top level with him there. As great as he is at defending the game has moved on.