Yes arguably.
Definitely Barca have been at some shady shit over the years. It wouldn't surprise me if they were juiced to the gills back in the Pep era either.
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
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Yes arguably.
Definitely Barca have been at some shady shit over the years. It wouldn't surprise me if they were juiced to the gills back in the Pep era either.
You should Google “Man City” and “emails”.
I would guess that City’s arguments have been centred around the legality of the rules they’ve broken?
Amongst other things I guess, yes. Also the admissibility of the evidence presented, whether what is presented is only circumstancial (like whether the leaked emails actually prove a violation of the rules - they obviously do for anyone with half a brain and a bit of common sense, but legally it might not be so straightforward...), etc.
To be honest I don't pay much attention to the cheats.
Gonna need another billion invested into the squad at this rate.
Have they openly challenged any of them?
My delight at this house of stacked cards collapsing is offset by the rise of the Anti-Christ.
Choosing to believe this collapse in form is because they know they're fecked
Manchester City will pay an unprecedented fine of £100m which will be used to promote grassroots football thrpoughout England. Both sides have agreed that this matter will now be closed. No further enquiries will take place.
Bravo
Are they giving themselves a points deduction on purpose or something?
No chance. It's just one club here. Calciopoli hit the entire ecosystem of a major footballing power, a top 3 league in the world at the time in terms of money and international exposure.
Imagine if Arsenal, United, Spurs, West Ham got punished, with United getting relegated, while several refs, several heads of the FA including the president, and major club officials including Ferguson, all got hit and the latter group even had to defend themselves in a penal court
That was calciopoli
10 point deduction which will move City down from 5th to 7/8/9th. Then they can spend freely from next summer and rack up another 130 ffp breaches.
Exactly, Calciopolli was disastrous to Italian football, there were arrests and convictions, lifetime bans, relegations, points deductions, and Seria A at the time was a top league in terms of popularity, appeal and strength, and since the it felt it no longer was a top league.
Totally disagree.
City just cooked the books, which is not as bad as match fixing and bribing refs.
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130 charges and some of you think they'll get away with it? 130 violations over 14 years. Think about that for a second. They broke the rules 130 times in 14 years and on top have attacked the Premier League. There's no way they aren't about to get the punishment of all punishments.
The players know something. It’s like they’ve given up.
I'm not sure that's the case, but it would certainly explain a lot if this was true.
No point striving to win matches if you know that it's all going to be for nothing anyway.
When are we likely to hear about the punishments? I can't wait. Its like waiting for Christmas as a 10 year old!
Calciopoli, Marseille bribing players and really any match fixing or ref bribing is "worse" than this for me in terms of footballing scandals.
So you are arguing another scandal is bigger then!
Fair enough. So as I said it is arguably the biggest cheating scandal in football history.
I’d think Caliopoli is inarguably a bigger scandal. We don’t have to pretend there’s never been anything worse in the history of football just to justify City’s cheating being bad do we? Seems a weird very online argument - The TEN biggest cheating scandals! Number ONE will SHOCK YOU!!
Nah their results have been bad for over 2 months now, the case would’ve been in the earlier stages when they started to play so bad.
However if they do get the appropriate punishment, I think things will get even worse for the players.
At first they was putting it down to Rodri being missing but we all know 1 player doesn’t make a team. Now it’s not even a blip at this stage it’s a crisis.
The domino effect of what City have done is however much bigger than Calciopoli, so while the latter is obviously more shocking in how brazen the cheating was, the pernicious effect of City's scheme is arguably more harmful.
I'd maybe agree. I simply said it's arguably the biggest cheating scandal in sport. I never actually claimed it was the biggest.
The other guy is arguing that it's arguable.
How so?
The investigation against them is ongoing. The prosecution is still gathering evidence. In any case I do not expect much to come out of it, but that's due to dynamics of the Spanish political system. The national government depends on the Catalan regional parties for support and no Catalan politician on any side of the spectrum will allow harm to come to Barcelona.
How much they've distorted the market over the years, the teams having been relegated, missing out on titles, CL qualification, players being taken from other clubs and stopping them from building on, etc. The bloated injection of money by their tied sponsors has had a massive effect that is genuinely hard to map.
Even something as simple as signing kalvin phillips and burying his career, just to stop someone else signing him matter.
I’m always curious about this. Do we know how many actual incidents we are talking about? You could have lots of charges related to the same incident. Example: they could say the allegations of under the table payment to Pelligrini violated 14 different PL rules over a certain period of time, and 10 more administrative and procedural violations later, including the failure to cooperate.
I can see fans getting their hopes up and being like “they were cheating every second of every day” (which could well be true), but the reality here is City lawyers may actually only have to attack a limited number of actual events?
Genuinely curious if anyone knows.
Yes, someone listed them recently in this thread, and there's many articles that summarize them well. They're obviously not 130 MASSIVE charges all at the same level, but they are all material breaches, with a few procedural exceptions.
...and you think those things weren't part of "calciopoli"'s consequences? You realize calciopoli flattened the italian fa and had a similar long term impact on italian football as the european ban on english football?
... yes? I'm not saying there wasn't any impact, I just believe, from my knowledge of those 2 cases, that the potential ramifications of the City case, if found guilty, will be bigger. It's just a subjective feeling, so I shouldn't have put it in the affirmative form in my original post, my bad!
Also because the FA and league have outright refused to investigate and potentially bring charges against them for breaking the rules - iirc maybe they even could not due to timing - so the case is entirely in the hands of the penal court, and the threshold to prove any crime (not rule-breaking, actual crime) was committed is of course much higher
Italian football still hasn’t recovered. Think about the amount of stars that league had then compared to now.
Not having confidence in it being a fair competition will do that to you. Which is why it’s important the PL makes an example of City.
Not having confidence in it being a fair competition will do that to you. Which is why it’s important the PL makes an example of City.
It's 5 different charges
Failure to provide accurate and up to date financial details 54 charges
Failure to provide financial details for player and manager compensation 14 charges
Failure to comply with FFRP 5 charges
Breaching P.L sustainability and profitability 7 charges
Failure to cooperate with PL investigators 35 charges
I would say the final charge is possible to get out of - same with sustainability and profitability - but these are not as serious as the others.
The 2nd charge - about compensation could in theory be judicially illegal - and this is probably the one which is easiest to prove. You can excuse FFRP or Sustainability - or explain them in an ok way. And this is something other teams have been fined with points deductions for....but you either have paid the correct wages and taxes - or you havent. You can't say that the taxes were incorrect - or excuse it in another way.
My theory is - City will escape a few of these, simply because I think the P.L is happy if they beat City in 1-2 of the groups of charges. That will be serious enough.
The blood doping destruction order should tell you how much they care about justice being done when it comes to sporting success.
I understand it better now you have explained it.
And from what you have said, it seems that the PL will want to at least get some sort of moral victory in order to send a message to the rest of the clubs.
With the EPL already setting the standard of a point deduction for breaching rules, how many points deficit would it take for them to realistically have a chance of relegation next season? Something like 60pts?