Still spending within the rules (except for the minor FFP breach a few years ago).
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with 130 FFP breaches | Hearing begins 16th Sep 2024 | Concluded 9th Dec 2024 - Awaiting outcome
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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Exactly. Yet people accuse us of being hypocrites.
I can see my argument has gone right over a lot of peoples heads.
If you cannot see the link between continually breaking transfer records I can't help you. It's called cause and effect.
The cause is the desire to do well, the effect is to win at all costs (cheating), and hope you don't get caught out.
If you cannot see the link between continually breaking transfer records I can't help you. It's called cause and effect.
The cause is the desire to do well, the effect is to win at all costs (cheating), and hope you don't get caught out.
I'm struggling to see what you're arguing here. Are you saying that our success (in part helped by our financial clout) is the reason that city have been cheating?
In so many words yes I am, and again IMO it's borne out by the fact that it's not only City who have been caught out with poor fiscal records.
We don't yet know how widespread it is, and it's not only in this country, it's human nature, that if things cannot be achieved by fair means, some will attempt to do it by foul ones.
You may scoff, but in the realm of my business I have seen people get kicked out of tournaments for cheating.
Athletes have been banned for cheating.
All for the desire to win at any cost.
You even see men wearing medals they are not entitled to, all in the desire to be something they are not, to be admired.
There was a well researched and well documented thread on this topic a few years ago. United were rarely ever the highest spending club in any given season.
I think we can bin the notion that United outspent their rivals in the 90s as the basis for their success. It happened on occasion, individual seasons here and there, but not in the same way Chelsea did between 2004-2008 for example, which completely removed any notion of fair competition in the transfer market.
I haven’t seen any data on wages from the 90s and 2000s, so it could well be that United had a vastly outsized wage bill compared to everyone else that blew everyone out of the waters, who knows but at least in terms of transfer fees, United didn't stand out from the pack as an era overall.
By that logic, wealthy people are to blame for poor people robbing banks, because poor people see what the wealthy have and desire it for themselves. You're removing all responsibility from the one who is breaking the law.
So...are WE tha bad guys?!
Sorry, but surely you can see how nuts this 'logic' is, right?!
His position is tenuous at best.
United broke transfer records, but did so, as can be seen in the list, generally buying outstanding players. In general you can say the spending also inflated roughly inline with the increasing financial might of the game. That's almost true by definition because United were spending money purely generated by the market. In addition we didn't actually buy that many players, you look at the 1990s and early 2000s its generally 1 or 2 a year that actually cost anything. This was constrained entirely because United were a commercial entity bound by the market.
If any single club is to blame for the rampant transfer market inflation its Chelsea. It was Chelsea who came along and spent a fortune on both quality and entirely medoicre players year after year in droves; they signed so many players. They drove the market up then everyone had to match. However, the key difference is Chelsea broke no rules, City have (alegedly) broken the spending rules they signed up to. Everything else is a red herring. No-one forced Abu Dhabi to buy City and after that no-one forced them to spend that money and break the rules.
What’s all this bollox comparing spending with cheating? The club that used be Man City are charged with systematic breaking of rules and refusing to cooperate with the authorities
In my experience in retail, that is more than often the case in shoplifting, thanks for proving my point.
People rob banks to become richer, so that they can afford the things people who are better off have, have you never heard of the expression "Living off ill gotten gains".
How am I removing the responsibility?
Pretty much every fanbase of a Top Club claims that just as they all believe that they get the shitty end of the stick from referees.
It really hasn’t, it’s something a five year old could understand… and something that the same five year old would say “this is bollox”.
Because it’s bollox.
I swear some fans on here are long term sleeper agents.
So as the biggest club in England and the most successful for the last 3 decades are you saying United aren't hated by opposition fans and sections of the media?
Every set of fans think this.
You go to Arsenal forums we think everyone has had it in for us. RAWK we all know about. You go to Villa talk and it's the same there. And so on. United haven't got the monopoly on victimhood I am afraid.
Secondly it's been 10 years since you've won a title, in 6 years it'll be 16 years. The same amount of time for Arsenal when COVID began. People forget as time goes on and on.
You over estimate people's ability to remember Uniteds dominant period. In 10 years time you'll have 30 year old adults who've never seen United win a title as adults (if you guys don't win one). Just like Arsenal fans.
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Wait, are you two actually arguing against the fact Manchester United are the most disliked club in the country?
It doesn’t really matter if all clubs think their club is the most disliked. United are the most loathed club in the country period. Even in this unsuccessful era.
https://www.sportbible.com/football...-premier-league-study-fanbase-621480-20230324
You can find these polls in articles like this coming out every year. City could win the next ten league titles and it will still be United top of these polls.
@Ludens the Red you're correct.
Man United are, at the same time, the most loved and the most hated club in the country.
Man United are, at the same time, the most loved and the most hated club in the country.
Hated, adored, never ignored
What point if any are you trying to actually make here?
United are the biggest club in the country. By far the most successful in the last few decades. Are you seriously suggesting United aren't the most hated club in the country amongst fans of other clubs?
What relevance does this have to anything?
Not sure why you're posting in green emojis.What point if any are you trying to actually make here?
United are the biggest club in the country. By far the most successful in the last few decades. Are you seriously suggesting United aren't the most hated club in the country amongst fans of other clubs?
What relevance does this have to anything?
The relevance is that in 10 years time no person who's 30 will have seen United lift a title as an adult so this 'hate', as per you built because of United's title wins, won't really be there. As for my other points, my point was every club's fans cry victimhood, you're not unique. Some of you who post stuff like this have become a parody of RAWK posters, the same ones who were laughed at here in 2008/2009. Some of you are just short of sending emails to US journalists complaining about unfairness to complete the full circle like RAWK posters did.
No, they hate us more!
United were hated by opposition fans in the 70s and 80s despite not winnjng a title since the 60s. After 20 years of dominance that will be even more entrenched. Most football fans will know people who are United fans. With United being the most supported club in the country. That creates and maintains rivalry. Plus people don't stop being football fans at 30. So your point is irrelevant.
Arsenal not winning a title in 20 years is irrelevant to the levels of dislike for United amongst football fans. Arsenal were even that hated when they did win the odd title.
The green smilies is because you are spouting nonsense.
I'm not getting involved in the discussion, but posting laughing emojis to try to emphasize how right you are is childish behaviour.
No it's to emphasise nonsense and a poorly veiled attempt at a wind up.
If you don't want to get involved then don't. Leave the moderating to the moderators.
Not to get all Kevin Keegan on things, but I would bloody love it if City get beaten here in court and get a hefty penalty. It would really set a precedent going forward.
Hate? Nah mate. Bantz? For sure blud
Exactly. I was 14 when we last won the title. You (almost definitely) have plenty of people who were wearing nappies or weren’t even born the last time we won the title who hate us because they’ve been taught to hate us due to their parents or the general atmosphere in the country.
Third biggest league winners in England and were it not for Chelsea and City could have won more
"The odd title"
Hilarious disrespect.
I've never really come across any deep hatred for United by an fan except if it's Liverpool or City or some of ours. Everyone else is mostly just shrug after a two liner of banter, how you've translated this into a vasy conspiracy was my issue.
My point was this imagined story of unfairness you've got, every supporter base has those.
Try listening to Talk Sport.
Anyway, this is way off topic. City are now facing 130 charges of breaking the rules over a decade plus long period. It is unprecedented in the Premier League. I have no specific hatred for City, but I hate how their owners have broken the rules to win. Unless any other club has broken the rules on this scale, many of these conversations are false equivalence.
I didn't actually intend any disrespect towards Arsenal. But let's be honest 6 titles in 70 odd years probably qualifies as the odd title. Seriously though I was talking about the late 90's to early 2000's.
Well as a United fan I can tell you I've came across a lot of it. Also what imagined story of unfairness? Where did I even mention that?
Try listening to Talk Sport.
Anyway, this is way off topic. City are now facing 130 charges of breaking the rules over a decade plus long period. It is unprecedented in the Premier League. I have no specific hatred for City, but I hate how their owners have broken the rules to win. Unless any other club has broken the rules on this scale, many of these conversations are false equivalence.
130? Have 15 news ones come to light?
Every club probably think they're hard done by, by refs, VAR, media etc.
But i'd be amazed if the vast majority of fans think their club is either hated, or most hated.
I often watch games at League 1 level. I don't think I've ever heard any other club losing a game being cheered to the same level as United.
The only thing close was when Arsenal threw away that 4-0 lead v Newcastle, but that was comedy for the freak nature of it.
They're trying to get one more charge every week so the trial can never end.
How do you know we arnt going to win a title in the next 10 years, to claim that is a bit silly when there is every chance we could win a title now we are being run like a Football Club again.
Brilliant
I think it's absolute BS that we have to keep writing off entire seasons until the cheats finally get binned.
Especially now that Gundogan is coming back. Thought we'd finally seen the last of him.
Someone on the r/reddevils subreddit said that the amount of negative karma City will have accumulated from all of this will be almost at biblical proportions. Let's hope they are right.
Especially now that Gundogan is coming back. Thought we'd finally seen the last of him.
Someone on the r/reddevils subreddit said that the amount of negative karma City will have accumulated from all of this will be almost at biblical proportions. Let's hope they are right.
129 breaches.
Blimey.
I still think it's a complete farce that they are still allowed to participate while this case is still open, especially seeing as they haven't been complying with the investigation and have refused to hand over their info for years. Disgusting.
I still think it's a complete farce that they are still allowed to participate while this case is still open, especially seeing as they haven't been complying with the investigation and have refused to hand over their info for years. Disgusting.