City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches

Taribo's Gap

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Can't help but smirk at the headline. There's nothing wrong with the MEN reporting that, whether you believe it, or wonder if shenanigans are afoot is another story, however. We're in an age of misinformation with City and them trying to buy in it's only going to worsen. Even here, we're supposed to believe this has nothing to do with City. No sir!

They may have "sold out" the stadium, who to, and whether it's actually full of live, independent bodies, well... :angel:

Now, this might all be conjecture on my part, but I'll add that faking it until they make it and do have the demand they state, is the order of the day. I think we all know what the stadiums of giant clubs at their footballing apex look like. Absolute booming cauldrons.
City had some of the best reported attendance in the Prem pre-takeover and Fede Valverde was recently interviewed and said The Etihad was the most difficult environment in which he has played. Is he a part of a misinformation campaign as well? There have been previous reports of a divergence between City's claimed attendance figures and actual attendance as reported by police figures from FOI requests, but this seems to be a pretty common practice for clubs. Manchester United has been accused of the same practice.

I can absolutely believe that City is up to some chicanery with reported ticket sale numbers, but there needs to be some evidence or basis for it. It's very common in the book industry, the music industry, with startups etc., so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But in a scenario where, when presented with evidence and reporting, people resort to whispers, innuendos and conjecture that comports with their priors or latch onto unfalsifiable or unprovable theories or alternative explanations, what really is the point of discussing? People should just believe what they want to believe.
 

NotChatGPT

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My take on it is that it doesn’t really matter what they’ve done or what evidence there is, the end result is that this is essentially a case against the UAE, and they’ve spent insane amount of money to make sure they have people in power willing to do their bidding when they need it. UK politicians were concerned just by the thought of how it could damage relations with the Saudis if they weren’t allowed to buy Newcastle, to the point of lobbying to increase their chances of success, there’s little or no reason to believe the same isn’t happening in regards to the charges against Manchester City, to make sure the potential damage is as small as possible for UK relations with UAE.

For the big boys, there’s no such thing as fairness, human rights and whatnot, they couldn’t be less bothered about the Premier League apart from the fact that it’s essentially a massive british product that brings in insane amounts of money, including via the likes of foreign ownership ala Saudis, UAE. Not to mention thinking about your own best interest by making sure someone that can easily sort you out for a very comfortable life remains happy.

The case will continue to drag out and the end result will be a fine.
 

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City had some of the best reported attendance in the Prem pre-takeover and Fede Valverde was recently interviewed and said The Etihad was the most difficult environment in which he has played. Is he a part of a misinformation campaign as well? There have been previous reports of a divergence between City's claimed attendance figures and actual attendance as reported by police figures from FOI requests, but this seems to be a pretty common practice for clubs. Manchester United has been accused of the same practice.

I can absolutely believe that City is up to some chicanery with reported ticket sale numbers, but there needs to be some evidence or basis for it. It's very common in the book industry, the music industry, with startups etc., so it's not out of the realm of possibility. But in a scenario where, when presented with evidence and reporting, people resort to whispers, innuendos and conjecture that comports with their priors or latch onto unfalsifiable or unprovable theories or alternative explanations, what really is the point of discussing? People should just believe what they want to believe.
The reports about City, regarding all numbers and financial matters, aren't an exercise in what one chooses to believe in or extract from what is being presented as fact? There's no reason to doubt them as an institution or believe they are partaking in subterfuge? Yes, ultimately I think practically everything regarding them boils down to what you believe because facts aren't necessarily facts - practically everything is dubitable - which is why they're in the shite they're in in the first place.

I couldn't click your link regarding Valverde because of the permissions the page is asking for, but that's the biggest European game and opponent City have ever hosted... do you think that's got the potential to be anomalous and an actual real turnout over other "sold out" games? Do I think other clubs boost attendance numbers at times? Yes. Do I think they do it anywhere near as much as City? Categorically not.

If this thread only went by what is verifiable about City it may as well be locked until an outcome is on the table.

You'll note I believe: they're cooking the books; paying the top players (and manager) a lot more than officially claimed; are strong-arming, or at least in cahoots with the government; are pumping money into Manchester for purposes other than serving the city with goodwill and virtuous deeds and will add falsifying attendance to the list. Perhaps I'm a tinfoil hat specialist... or perhaps City are seriously dodgy to the point it's incredulous and unprecedented.

It will be interesting to see what propaganda they will pump out once/if they get hold of a national newspaper.
 

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It won’t be done on the books I’m sure.
A minister will sort it out with the PL chairman on the 19th hole over brandy and cigars…
And why would the PL chairmen do that, it won't be in their interests to do so
 

blackhawk747

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I think the most probable verdict will be a huge point deduction in current season for man city and chelsea. But i dunno will it be big enough for them to be relegated to ecl.
 

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The reports about City, regarding all numbers and financial matters, aren't an exercise in what one chooses to believe in or extract from what is being presented as fact? There's no reason to doubt them as an institution or believe they are partaking in subterfuge? Yes, ultimately I think practically everything regarding them boils down to what you believe because facts aren't necessarily facts - practically everything is dubitable - which is why they're in the shite they're in in the first place.

I couldn't click your link regarding Valverde because of the permissions the page is asking for, but that's the biggest European game and opponent City have ever hosted... do you think that's got the potential to be anomalous and an actual real turnout over other "sold out" games? Do I think other clubs boost attendance numbers at times? Yes. Do I think they do it anywhere near as much as City? Categorically not.

If this thread only went by what is verifiable about City it may as well be locked until an outcome is on the table.

You'll note I believe: they're cooking the books; paying the top players (and manager) a lot more than officially claimed; are strong-arming, or at least in cahoots with the government; are pumping money into Manchester for purposes other than serving the city with goodwill and virtuous deeds and will add falsifying attendance to the list. Perhaps I'm a tinfoil hat specialist... or perhaps City are seriously dodgy to the point it's incredulous and unprecedented.

It will be interesting to see what propaganda they will pump out once/if they get hold of a national newspaper.
Don't think there's anything outlandish about this - you've presented it very well, and considering all the noises and accusations, it's more than likely most of this is exact.
 

Fortitude

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Don't think there's anything outlandish about this - you've presented it very well, and considering all the noises and accusations, it's more than likely most of this is exact.
Cheers.

There's a lot to go off at the deep end with regarding this topic. I don't think I'm saying anything fanciful or revelatory, personally.
 

JagUTD

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I'm not sure exactly how someone would go about it but it'd be interesting to see how things panned out of the UK Government, Premier League and Newcastle United were taken to court over this and it ended up in the Supreme Court, which has shown it is not afraid to rule against the Government.

Wouldn't be surprised if FIFA had taken some notes as well just incase they needed to refer back to it in the event they got into another spat with the FA, though there ban on government interference is around National teams, rather than a general rule, but I'm sure they'll figure out something if necessary. Corruption always finds away, even against more corruption.

It's the corruption of life.
 

Rob

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I’m torn between thinking nothing significant will happen to them and then that the PL have to throw the book at them as it’s brand could potentially suffer irreparable damage if the whole world get the perception that City can get away with breaking the rules numerous times, resulting in them winning title after title, without any meaningful punishment.

The media play a big role in making sure it stays on the radar of the general public and forming the narrative.
 

Solius

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As I said before, Bluemoon forum members should be on some sort of register. They're a danger to the public.
One of those who liked it 'Scaring Europe to Death' signed up here quite recently. Swiftly banned of course.
 

Mb194dc

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They'll be relegated for certain. Just a matter of how long it takes to work through.

I expect they'll be stripped of titles as well.

I wouldn't expect much more than that though as the government don't want to upset the owners too much.

Most likely they'll be like Juve after Calciopoli, probably promoted again after 1 season and that'll be it.
 

Fortitude

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I’m torn between thinking nothing significant will happen to them and then that the PL have to throw the book at them as it’s brand could potentially suffer irreparable damage if the whole world get the perception that City can get away with breaking the rules numerous times, resulting in them winning title after title, without any meaningful punishment.

The media play a big role in making sure it stays on the radar of the general public and forming the narrative.
Hence the pursuit of a national newspaper and the media offensive that has so many reluctant to make the waves about this that they should be.
 

Cloud7

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The reports about City, regarding all numbers and financial matters, aren't an exercise in what one chooses to believe in or extract from what is being presented as fact? There's no reason to doubt them as an institution or believe they are partaking in subterfuge? Yes, ultimately I think practically everything regarding them boils down to what you believe because facts aren't necessarily facts - practically everything is dubitable - which is why they're in the shite they're in in the first place.

I couldn't click your link regarding Valverde because of the permissions the page is asking for, but that's the biggest European game and opponent City have ever hosted... do you think that's got the potential to be anomalous and an actual real turnout over other "sold out" games? Do I think other clubs boost attendance numbers at times? Yes. Do I think they do it anywhere near as much as City? Categorically not.

If this thread only went by what is verifiable about City it may as well be locked until an outcome is on the table.

You'll note I believe: they're cooking the books; paying the top players (and manager) a lot more than officially claimed; are strong-arming, or at least in cahoots with the government; are pumping money into Manchester for purposes other than serving the city with goodwill and virtuous deeds and will add falsifying attendance to the list. Perhaps I'm a tinfoil hat specialist... or perhaps City are seriously dodgy to the point it's incredulous and unprecedented.

It will be interesting to see what propaganda they will pump out once/if they get hold of a national newspaper.
What's the thought process behind this one?
 

Cloud7

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I’m torn between thinking nothing significant will happen to them and then that the PL have to throw the book at them as it’s brand could potentially suffer irreparable damage if the whole world get the perception that City can get away with breaking the rules numerous times, resulting in them winning title after title, without any meaningful punishment.

The media play a big role in making sure it stays on the radar of the general public and forming the narrative.
The crazy thing is you can just as easily imagine, or think up of reasons for, both of these outcomes. I am torn as well, although Everton has given me reason to lean more towards the side of something substantial happening, but not a huge amount of lean
 

Castia

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They'll be relegated for certain. Just a matter of how long it takes to work through.

I expect they'll be stripped of titles as well.

I wouldn't expect much more than that though as the government don't want to upset the owners too much.

Most likely they'll be like Juve after Calciopoli, probably promoted again after 1 season and that'll be it.



If they’re relegated and stripped of titles that would be massive. They’ll be offered a massive pay off in disguise of a fine and a possible points deduction in my opinion though, don’t think the PL have the balls to relegate them.
 

Fortitude

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What's the thought process behind this one?
"abu dhabi investment in manchester"

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...english-city-sold-abu-dhabis-elite-manchester

There are a lot of stories on how they've come in and ingratiated themselves with the city and smoothed their path to doing whatever they want with no objection at local level. No different to what they've done with the government, just localised.

Researchers ‘unable to identify any income received by the council’ under joint venture with Abu Dhabi United Group


Public land sold to Manchester City’s owners on the cheap in ‘sweetheart deal,’ report claims

Researchers ‘unable to identify any income received by the council’ under joint venture with Abu Dhabi United Group

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Manchester City Council has has been accused of selling huge tracts of public land at discount prices to the Abu Dhabi investment fund that owns the Premier League champions.
The city’s reputation has been put at risk by the authority entering into a “bad deal for the council and its citzens” despite human rights concerns about the United Arab Emirates, according to a new report that raises questions about how the ownership of football clubs is used for political aims that are not beneficial to wider society.

The 65-page report by academics at the University of Sheffield concludes council’s sale of sites to with Manchester City’s owner, Sheikh Mansour, is “instructive” on both sportswashing and “city-washing”. The researchers said the situation should lead to scrutiny of other cities such as Newcastle, where Saudi Arabian investors have invested in Newcastle United Football Club.

One of the most common criticisms of these ownerships is such clubs are used for other purposes, not least the integration of problematic states into the infrastructure of society.
The research primarily covers the Manchester Life partnership, a joint venture that has built 1,468 private apartments in the gentrified Ancoats district. In contrast to the common counter-argument that Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) investment has regenerated east Manchester, the report was “unable to identify any income received by the council from its joint venture stakes… despite being exposed to some of the risks of the project”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ouncil-abu-dhabi-sheikh-mansour-b2128273.html

It's a veritable rabbit hole, if you're really interested. Suffice it to say, it's all absolutely rotten.
 

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"abu dhabi investment in manchester"

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...english-city-sold-abu-dhabis-elite-manchester

There are a lot of stories on how they've come in and ingratiated themselves with the city and smoothed their path to doing whatever they want with no objection at local level. No different to what they've done with the government, just localised.

Researchers ‘unable to identify any income received by the council’ under joint venture with Abu Dhabi United Group


Public land sold to Manchester City’s owners on the cheap in ‘sweetheart deal,’ report claims

Researchers ‘unable to identify any income received by the council’ under joint venture with Abu Dhabi United Group

Get the free Morning Headlines email for news from our reporters across the world


Manchester City Council has has been accused of selling huge tracts of public land at discount prices to the Abu Dhabi investment fund that owns the Premier League champions.
The city’s reputation has been put at risk by the authority entering into a “bad deal for the council and its citzens” despite human rights concerns about the United Arab Emirates, according to a new report that raises questions about how the ownership of football clubs is used for political aims that are not beneficial to wider society.

The 65-page report by academics at the University of Sheffield concludes council’s sale of sites to with Manchester City’s owner, Sheikh Mansour, is “instructive” on both sportswashing and “city-washing”. The researchers said the situation should lead to scrutiny of other cities such as Newcastle, where Saudi Arabian investors have invested in Newcastle United Football Club.

One of the most common criticisms of these ownerships is such clubs are used for other purposes, not least the integration of problematic states into the infrastructure of society.
The research primarily covers the Manchester Life partnership, a joint venture that has built 1,468 private apartments in the gentrified Ancoats district. In contrast to the common counter-argument that Abu Dhabi United Group (ADUG) investment has regenerated east Manchester, the report was “unable to identify any income received by the council from its joint venture stakes… despite being exposed to some of the risks of the project”.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/...ouncil-abu-dhabi-sheikh-mansour-b2128273.html

It's a veritable rabbit hole, if you're really interested. Suffice it to say, it's all absolutely rotten.
That article mentions sportswashing, which doesn't exist. 1/10, wouldn't read again.
 

Taribo's Gap

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That article mentions sportswashing, which doesn't exist. 1/10, wouldn't read again.
And "city-washing" as well. We're two steps away from these guys cleaning up the residue after taking a dump with leftover currency notes laying around, people calling it "arse-washing" and the whole world being left confused as to whether they're meant to be boosting the perception of the quality of their backsides relative to instagram models or simply engaging in routine hygiene :lol:.
 

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So much proof hanging about. Wonder if anyone has the cojones to do something about it or just accept brown envelopes and sweep it under the carpet. My guess is option 2.
 

RedRocket9908

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Classy bunch

I have looking through some of Nick Harris's tweets on City andag some of the replies from City fans are ridiculous, they all claim they are innocent but its clear that most of them dont understand what they have been chareged for, what the process for the independant panel is, or even how FFP works.
 

strandty

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Not City-related but a nice and convenient way for Newcastle to save some money and 'loan' Neves instead of buying him last Summer...
 

tomaldinho1

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I have looking through some of Nick Harris's tweets on City andag some of the replies from City fans are ridiculous, they all claim they are innocent but its clear that most of them dont understand what they have been chareged for, what the process for the independant panel is, or even how FFP works.
It's such a weird mindset when you think about it - if United had been accused of similar with the insanely high amount of charges, I would just assume we are guilty and hope we are not. It's helpful we hate our owners I guess, given we don't trust anything they say versus City fans who seem to take everything their club says at face value.
 

Red in STL

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Not City-related but a nice and convenient way for Newcastle to save some money and 'loan' Neves instead of buying him last Summer...
I suspect it's more a case of "we don't want to shut off the wads of cash they're giving us for players we no longer want"
 

Taribo's Gap

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Indeed. I haven't read it yet, but I'm sure this 500k funded, three year, 68 page report is still ineffective in supporting this highly ambiguous idea of 'sportswashing'.
Give it a read and report back on how this robust report definitively and clearly defines sportswashing so that matter can be put to rest.
 

RedRocket9908

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It's such a weird mindset when you think about it - if United had been accused of similar with the insanely high amount of charges, I would just assume we are guilty and hope we are not. It's helpful we hate our owners I guess, given we don't trust anything they say versus City fans who seem to take everything their club says at face value.
At least there are a few on Bluemoon now who are starting to accept that they might be guilty or some of the charges, they also seem to be jumping to Spurs defence though and a few have discussed weather some of the evidence in both cases is time barred.
 

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Give it a read and report back on how this robust report definitively and clearly defines sportswashing so that matter can be put to rest.
You're yet to respond to the last post I made (or the ones that follow made by others) about sportswashing. Pardon me if I don't run off to provide a comprehensive report presentation to someone who is yet to demonstrate an ability or the intent to engage in good faith.
 

tomaldinho1

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Give it a read and report back on how this robust report definitively and clearly defines sportswashing so that matter can be put to rest.
I don’t understand, are you just refusing to believe sportswashing exists (and if so are you just trying to be contrarian?) or that City aren’t doing it?
 

Taribo's Gap

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You're yet to respond to the last post I made (or the ones that follow made by others) about sportswashing. Pardon me if I don't run off to provide a comprehensive report presentation to someone who is yet to demonstrate an ability or the intent to engage in good faith.
The "good faith" and "whattaboutery" accusations just because people don't align with you 100% are kind of cheap. You are accusing people of not engaging in good faith on an issue that you say is "fairly obvious" and then say this in the first line of your post: "Nor is it a binary checkbox, but rather one part of a multi-dimensional spectrum that all countries exist on (this 'spectrum' itself is up for larger discussion)." So is it fairly obvious? Or kind of involved and complicated?

You then home in on the actions of nation states as would-be sports washers and then cite the Premier League, a private association of member clubs, as an erstwhile example of the UK engaging sportswashing. All seems fairly obvious...

You probably shouldn't lead with accusations and self righteousness if you actually want serious engagement. If you want to pontificate, carry on.
 

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They'll be relegated for certain. Just a matter of how long it takes to work through.

I expect they'll be stripped of titles as well.

I wouldn't expect much more than that though as the government don't want to upset the owners too much.

Most likely they'll be like Juve after Calciopoli, probably promoted again after 1 season and that'll be it.
At this point I’d take that. Stripping titles is the bare minimum that should happen, which is exactly why their punishment will be a €10m fine.
 

Taribo's Gap

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I don’t understand, are you just refusing to believe sportswashing exists (and if so are you just trying to be contrarian?) or that City aren’t doing it?
I just think it's conceptually hazy. As it is used, it can still be useful for human rights organizations and media to apply pressure on countries like UAE, Qatar etc. to change their practices.
 

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I just think it's conceptually hazy.
So what?
As it is used, it can still be useful for human rights organizations and media to apply pressure on countries like UAE, Qatar etc. to change their practices.
So considering the bold, you actually do believe it exists?

As for the rest, do you genuinely believe that to be the case? Or do you believe that the other way around, the reason why the notion of sportswashing was brought up in the first place, is more likely?