Don't forget that they're also corrupt
City and Financial Doping | Charged by PL with numerous FFP breaches
- Thread starter VanGaalEra
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What about The senior European lawyers in the CFCB’s adjudicatory chamber? Are they also incompetent? Can we just disregard their judgement too? I really want to carry on believing that everyone else is incompetent and the bad guys always win.
They don’t have to sell. They just won’t be allowed play in the same competitions as everyone else until they do.
Absolutely agree. If only there was a part of me believing there’s a chance this happens.
That's what I'm saying. We didn't have a chance to hear City's defense for that. And didn't need to. Because it was time barred. They may have a reasonable defense for that.
But hopefully the PL investigation (where there is no time barred concept) sheds light on it.
Then the other PL clubs may as well tell the PL where to stick their regulations.
There’s something I’ve always wondered about the UEFA case.
In real life, if you were up on a charge that had a statute of limitations, surely you couldn’t just throw money and lawyers at delaying proceedings until enough time had passed for it to be thrown out?
I assume that so long as the charges had been brought before the statute had passed, you would be prosecuted as normal?
Am I wrong in thinking that and if not, why wasn’t the same logic applied in City’s case?
In real life, if you were up on a charge that had a statute of limitations, surely you couldn’t just throw money and lawyers at delaying proceedings until enough time had passed for it to be thrown out?
I assume that so long as the charges had been brought before the statute had passed, you would be prosecuted as normal?
Am I wrong in thinking that and if not, why wasn’t the same logic applied in City’s case?
Yes I understand where you are coming from but I just do not see it. I think the feeling that a lot of posters have about city getting away with it due to some nebulous corruption just ignores the incentives each organisation has, the way parties have acted so far and previous evidence.
The PL obviously want to prosecute (is that the right word for this situation?) otherwise the charges would not have been brought, city are obviously scrambling because they cannot appeal to CAS and are delaying as much as possible and the government are already threatening to bring in an independent regulator. I just don't see how this lines up to city "getting away with it", these charges are unprecedented and the scale of them is crazy. You can't just slap 115 charges down then let them go on their merry way, there would be uproar, the PL would get shafted for being incompetent and get even tighter regulations.
Too much smoke and the easiest way out for most parties is to string city up.
I believe the Prem and the other leagues are almost separate, in that the prem has no jurisdiction on things such as this.
They can simply kick them out the prem - so they go down one league. This is because of how the prem came to be, it was basically a separate league so the current top tier clubs in div 1 at the time branched off and created the premier league they signed the Founder Members Agreement, establishing the basic principles for the setting up of the Premier League.
"The competition was founded as the FA Premier League on 20 February 1992 following the decision of First Division (top-tier league from 1888 until 1992) clubs to break away from the English Football League. However, teams may still be relegated to and promoted from the EFL Championship. "
I believe the statute passed prior to charges as far as I'm aware due to city hiding the evidence as the committed the wrongdoing. Then hackers got the info who passed on to German papers which forced uefa to begin investigating. Then city tried to drag it out by failing to Co operate etc. But basically they were in clear from get go or shortly after with statute
Ah ok, thanks for clearing that up.
There should be a mechanism by which a statute of limitations is void if the guilty party is still profiting from the wrongdoing.
Yeah, not sure why people still go on about relegation as a punishment, it can't just happen like that. It can only happen if the PL issue a points deduction that guarantees relegation at the end of the season.
As far as I know. The PL can expel them, they will then have to apply to the football league for membership, the football league if they accept the application will decide what level of the pyramid they will enter. Could be anywhere from the Championship to level 6-9 or something like that.
Next year's Manchester derby....FC United v Manchester City
City group are too big and powerful for the FA to make anything stick. All charges will be dropped. Even if the evidence was there, the movement behind the scenes are way too big for anything to come to light. There will be shady deals and payments made until all this is cleared - we all know this deep down.
I think the fallout from no charges been brought to City will be huge though. Other clubs will be pissed big style and the PL risk a whole ESL style revolt with clubs making waves to join that should City get away with this.
I think the fallout from no charges been brought to City will be huge though. Other clubs will be pissed big style and the PL risk a whole ESL style revolt with clubs making waves to join that should City get away with this.
The same clubs that couldn't even agree to oppose the possibility of Newcastle loaning players from their parent company's other assets?
The EFL dont have to accept them but if they do I think City would have to start from League 2, if they dont then City would have to apply to the National League for membership.
City could also end up having no Football at all for a season if their application to join cant be processed in time to join for the next season following expulsion from the Premier League.
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Perhaps they’ll start the example for a foreign club to enter the Saudi Pro League. Win-win situation.
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Then they will get all they deserve. They moan when they get punished for trying to stay in PL, but do nothing when someone is cheating to win things. I have always thoughts the PL has ruined football. It all became about greed rather than glory.
This whole time barred thing from UEFA is bollocks. If there's a murder committed and you don't find the murderer until 30 years later, no one is going to say it's alright mate, that was ages ago.
Could UEFA still have booted them out of the CL competition for a/x year/s?
Exactly. I understand Premier League can't decide the tier to be relegated but I am sure they can throw the team out and barred them for a period of time (eg. 5 years). Even if City get top 3 in Championship, they will be ignored for the period of time and the promoted teams will be from 2nd to 4th.
Given the relationship of Premier League and English League, I am sure English League will likely to be in the same tune and could even not accept City and let them drop to Nationals tier.
Imagine rocking up for you Sunday league team and you face City while extremely hungover. One can dream...
Except that it is all there in the emails. This was all leaked. It is very much publicly available to see them openly talking about arranging BS sponsorships.
The reason the PL is probably taking their time is simple. The CAS verdict was 2 vs 1. The 2 who voted in Citys favor was the barrister barrister that was cherry picked by City, and the chairman, who was recommended by City ( source - paragraphs 8 and 9 ). They were essentially allowed to pick 2 of the 3 jury members to speed up the trial where it would usually have been one chosen by City, one by UEFA and one chosen impartially. If the PL entered this way, they would lose. They are up against a bottomless pit of legal funds here and likely need to be airtight, which means taking as long as necessary, sadly.
The CAS trial was disheartening, but understandable once you read the fine print outlined above. The subsequent statement from City talking about being "exonerated" were offensive to anyone with 2 eyes and a brain. Much like their managers nandrolone case, it was a technicality that got them off, not an exoneration. Peas in a pod.
I'd rather it take years and this shower go back to the sewer where they belong, rather than rush it and continue to see them cheating and benefitting from their cheating.
you can almost see in it Pep’s eyes
Why will the PL not reveal the date of the hearing against City?. Are the charges against Manchester City or City Football Group? If I were an Everton or Forest fan, I would be pretty pissed off that my club has been charged and will probably be sanctioned before the historical charges against City are heard. No doubt City's lawyers will strecth it out and appeal and then appeal again. In the meantime Guardiola will still be as smug as ever and will probably have left by the time City are punished, if they ever are. The whole thing smacks of a fix to me. If you are innocent, you'd want to get it done with asap.
Edit: I’m stupid I didn’t look earlier in the thread I thought this was from today!
You won't be seeing Pep or the big stars there. You might see that kid who scored against Newcastle.
In many countries, financial crimes have a statute of limitations. Murder is perhaps the only crime that doesn’t.
Interesting. So he does think they will be relegated IF proven guilty. But that IF is really really big and he thinks its nigh on impossible for the PL to prove that.
As we were folks
Financial expert 
I mean I’m sure he is…but on this he just sounded like a City fan.
I mean I’m sure he is…but on this he just sounded like a City fan.Indeed.
The nature of a number of the charges City are facing relates to lying about their finances, and committing fraud, which is why they can investigate over a longer period, but also why this is taking an age and a lot of arguing and disputing between lawyers, and back and forward. And since City are disputing this, it's not straightforward to bring this case to be heard.
We all know what should happen, but what will actually happen is very different.
Truthfully, I think the league now know they have to deal with this. With the pressure of the government over independent regulation - and a potential fan/club fallout they've been pushed in to a corner to deal with it, and to deal with it properly.
They know an X point deduction won't cut it when, at the time, teams lower down the football pyramid were getting deductions for much lesser things (Luton 10 + 20 for example).
I think those involved know the only real way to be able to give out the punishments they need to, is to have some kind of history of charges - the Everton thing fell on their lap and it was set as a potentially 'harsh' 10 points.
The whole Chelsea thing, now with owners that are complying is more low hanging fruit - if they can charge them, and harshly punish them then there will be a clear precedence set for historical charges also.
Once Everton have been charged and not appealed or overturned somehow, and the same for Chelsea, *then* they can dish out the punishment needed for City and there won't really be any way back due to what happened with Everton and potentially Chelsea. In any case they league will have been seen with dealing with it - and there would be uproar from other clubs if City end up worming their way out of it.
This is going to go on for a while yet though. As others have said, I think they have to now wait for these Everton/Chelsea things to be able to dish out the punishment in all honesty they feel they have to. But the case also needs to be air tight.
I'm very surprised the whole league isn't turning on City though and pretty much openly saying how they've cheated - can they not do this for league reasons perhaps?
They know an X point deduction won't cut it when, at the time, teams lower down the football pyramid were getting deductions for much lesser things (Luton 10 + 20 for example).
I think those involved know the only real way to be able to give out the punishments they need to, is to have some kind of history of charges - the Everton thing fell on their lap and it was set as a potentially 'harsh' 10 points.
The whole Chelsea thing, now with owners that are complying is more low hanging fruit - if they can charge them, and harshly punish them then there will be a clear precedence set for historical charges also.
Once Everton have been charged and not appealed or overturned somehow, and the same for Chelsea, *then* they can dish out the punishment needed for City and there won't really be any way back due to what happened with Everton and potentially Chelsea. In any case they league will have been seen with dealing with it - and there would be uproar from other clubs if City end up worming their way out of it.
This is going to go on for a while yet though. As others have said, I think they have to now wait for these Everton/Chelsea things to be able to dish out the punishment in all honesty they feel they have to. But the case also needs to be air tight.
I'm very surprised the whole league isn't turning on City though and pretty much openly saying how they've cheated - can they not do this for league reasons perhaps?
They’ll have proof that’s the least of my worries. It’s not hard to see City’s accounts not adding up, apparently the owner was making payments on their behalf so they wouldn’t be affected by ffpInteresting. So he does think they will be relegated IF proven guilty. But that IF is really really big and he thinks its nigh on impossible for the PL to prove that.
As we were folks
I mean there’s pages and pages of leaked emails/accounts showing as much. Wasn’t one example being Mancini? He was paid x amount by City to keep their costs down and then another payment by the owner so essentially city was paying half his wages
Even if they somehow get out of 100 charges the 15 should be enough to relegate them. Anything less than a relegation will be a disappointment
But can they use that evidence since it's from a hack and they aren't complying and they likely no longer exist anyway due to some fire somewhere deleting them all?
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Cheats.